80% of Irish Adults Overweight

nice_guy80

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/almost-80-of-older-irish-adults-are-overweight-1.1869855

shocking stat.
and the children are not far behind.

a huge change of direction is needed.
maybe its time for the state to stop promoting the failed food pyramid model in schools - yep, still being taught.
stop pedalling a low fat diet as being healthy
introduce proper labelling on food - stop food companies claiming their products are good for health eg cereals, bread, yoghurts, spreads,
calories for each portion in restaurants and fast food outlets

Alf Veedersane

Irish adults over 50.

Just for clarification.

I'm just big boned...

nice_guy80

That is most parents.

frozenfrozen

i couldnt read the article because my eyelids are overweight

Alf Veedersane

nice_guy80 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/almost-80-of-older-irish-adults-are-overweight-1.1869855

shocking stat.
and the children are not far behind.

a huge change of direction is needed.
maybe its time for the state to stop promoting the failed food pyramid model in schools - yep, still being taught.
stop pedalling a low fat diet as being healthy
introduce proper labelling on food - stop food companies claiming their products are good for health eg cereals, bread, yoghurts, spreads,
calories for each portion in restaurants and fast food outlets

That's all well and good but you need to educate people first.

Do they teach the food pyramid in schools? I never heard anything about it in school.

nice_guy80

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

That's all well and good but you need to educate people first.

Do they teach the food pyramid in schools? I never heard anything about it in school.

Yep. SPHE.

Alf Veedersane

Ah. After my time so.

Anyway, whilst I'd never be an advocate of the food pyramid, following it isn't necessarily going to make you overweight.
Most people have no concept of portion sizes.

For example, it says 6 or so servings of bread/pasta/cereals/rice. 1 serving is a medium potato or 3 dessert spoons of oats, to give two examples.

Plenty of people would have close to their limit in potatoes at dinner. That's after having a healthy breakfast with 3+ servings of porridge oats.

atilladehun

And they do it in science and primary school. That argument of do they teach it in schools is one of the most useless arguments around. For every life topic.

We learn far more life skills from our parents and friends then school. Think of the thousands of meals you have at home as a child versus the two weeks of lessons you might get on something in schools. We would have to drastically change the way schools work to make a difference to cultural behaviour.

Getting adults engaged and educated so they can teach it to their children should be the aim.

nice_guy80

Parents are supposed to be the primary educators of their children - its actually enshrined in law.

I look forward to the day when some parents in Ireland are brought to court for the neglect of their clearly obese children by feeding them crap.

Sam Kade

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Irish adults over 50.

Just for clarification.

Men

Just to clarify the clarification

ted1

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Parents are supposed to be the primary educators of their children - its actually enshrined in law.

I look forward to the day when some parents in Ireland are brought to court for the neglect of their clearly obese children by feeding them crap.

the problem is that the parents have been taught incorrectly to.

the state can't wipe its hands and blame the parents, as its education system, has failed them to.

Some kind of traffic light system, should be introduced for food.

Green = good unprocessed meat, chicken, etc
Orange= not so good
Red = bad <== fizzy drinks, crisps etc

Snakeweasel

I had a 50+ neighbour argue with me that you could eat as much spuds as you wanted as long as you didnt put any butter on them, without gaining weight. Needless to say she is a good 3-4 stone overweight

Bruno26

The solution is to inform people that a moderate to low carbohydrate intake (under 150 grams daily) is the easiest way to maintain a healthy weight. If this was adhered to the problem would be solved.

Alf Veedersane

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Ah. After my time so.

Anyway, whilst I'd never be an advocate of the food pyramid, following it isn't necessarily going to make you overweight.
Most people have no concept of portion sizes.

For example, it says 6 or so servings of bread/pasta/cereals/rice. 1 serving is a medium potato or 3 dessert spoons of oats, to give two examples.

Plenty of people would have close to their limit in potatoes at dinner. That's after having a healthy breakfast with 3+ servings of porridge oats.

The food pyramid is more or less fine if followed. The trouble is that people are ignorant and the portion sizes are laughably small. What's the portion size for rice for example?
With people being ignorant they see carbs as forming the "base" of a good diet so what harm would it really be to have a bigger base?

walshb

The food and types of food, whilst important, is not the real issue. Over eating is the real issue. Even ingesting too much 'good' food will see you put on weight and add to your BMI. Portion size is key. Obey the food pyramid, or something similar, exercise and stay active and you can't go far wrong.

Bruno26

The food pyramind does not work. It is not fine. If it was fine there would not be so many overweight unhealthy people. People overeat because they base their diet on carbohydrates (processed food). This results in feeling hungry again soon after eating which leads to overeating.

Alf Veedersane

Deleted User wrote: »

The food pyramid is more or less fine if followed. The trouble is that people are ignorant and the portion sizes are laughably small. What's the portion size for rice for example?
With people being ignorant they see carbs as forming the "base" of a good diet so what harm would it really be to have a bigger base?

3 dessert spoons or 1/2 cup of rice. Someone puts that on their plate for dinner and they'll more than likely scoff before trebling it.

Agreed on portion sizes. Plenty of studies show that we eat with our eyes so if something looks like it won't fill us then we'll lob more onto the plate and eat until we feel full...which is long after satiety.

Alf Veedersane

Bruno26 wrote: »

The food pyramind does not work. It is not fine. If it was fine there would not be so many overweight unhealthy people. People overeat because they base their diet on carbohydrates (processed food). This results in feeling hungry again soon after eating which leads to overeating.

If you had the 6 servings of carbs/cereals/grains (the base) as rice with your dinner, that's 134 g of carbohydrates, which is inside your 150g.

12 baby potatoes is the 6 servings of carbs and would be less than half of that.

The problem isn't just eating carbs. It's eating too much of everything.

Bruno26

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

If you had the 6 servings of carbs/cereals/grains (the base) as rice with your dinner, that's 134 g of carbohydrates, which is inside your 150g.

12 baby potatoes is the 6 servings of carbs and would be less than half of that.

The problem isn't just eating carbs. It's eating too much of everything.

Exactly. Who sticks to that? Plates are loaded with carbs at most meals. That is why the food pyramid does not work. I still say its down to eating too many carbs.

Alf Veedersane

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

3 dessert spoons or 1/2 cup of rice. Someone puts that on their plate for dinner and they'll more than likely scoff before trebling it.

Exactly. People would assume a bagel is a portion for example. What's 1/2 a cup anyway? I think the Uncle Ben's 62.5g bags are roughly 2 portions, have 2 of them and that's 4 portions in one meal, pretty much the day's carbs in one go.[/QUOTE]

Alf Veedersane

Bruno26 wrote: »

Exactly. Who sticks to that? Plates are loaded with carbs at most meals. That is why the food pyramid does not work. I still say its down to eating too many carbs.

Plates are loaded full stop.

And people have no awareness of nutrition.

You believe it's carbs and that's fine. But plenty of others don't believe it's carbs and have a diet quite different to yours and are in good shape without being miserable or anything like it.

But to a basic appreciation of nutrition is beyond most of the population and therein lies the problem.

Alf Veedersane

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

If you had the 6 servings of carbs/cereals/grains (the base) as rice with your dinner, that's 134 g of carbohydrates, which is inside your 150g.

12 baby potatoes is the 6 servings of carbs and would be less than half of that.

The problem isn't just eating carbs. It's eating too much of everything.

But people don't think in terms of the portions on the food pyramid, that's the issue.

As well as that it's a lot easier to overeat on carbs than on say meat/protein. Overeating most vegetables isn't going to contribute to weight gain the same way carbs will. Eat brocolli/spinach/cauliflower topped with butter til ya can't move and see how many calories have been consumed. Now do the same with spaghetti and a nice sugar-laden sauce.

Alf Veedersane

Deleted User wrote: »

Exactly. People would assume a bagel is a portion for example. What's 1/2 a cup anyway? I think the Uncle Ben's 62.5g bags are roughly 2 portions, have 2 of them and that's 4 portions in one meal, pretty much the day's carbs in one go.

1/2 a cup of rice is about 85-90g.

Uncle Ben's 62.5g portion is for one. The 125g pouch is for 2.

But in the same way people look at ready meals that say "Serves 2-3 people" and laugh before polishing it off with a side of something like chips, the 125g of rice goes onto one plate. Along with an oversized dollop of the main part of the dinner.

Alf Veedersane

Deleted User wrote: »

But people don't think in terms of the portions on the food pyramid, that's the issue.

As well as that it's a lot easier to overeat on carbs than on say meat/protein. Overeating most vegetables isn't going to contribute to weight gain the same way carbs will. Eat brocolli/spinach/cauliflower topped with butter til ya can't move and see how many calories have been consumed. Now do the same with spaghetti and a nice sugar-laden sauce.

I'm basically agreeing with you on portion sizes.

kneemos

Bruno26 wrote: »

The food pyramind does not work. It is not fine. If it was fine there would not be so many overweight unhealthy people. People overeat because they base their diet on carbohydrates (processed food). This results in feeling hungry again soon after eating which leads to overeating.

If you're blaming the Food Pyramid you're definitely barking up the wrong tree,I doubt many even remember what was on it never mind follow it.

diarmuid05

Here's my experience

Stopped eating carbs and sugar -> no more cravings -> consuming less calories ->
Lost 2 1/2 stone in 3 months

so basically carbs and sugar lead to hunger cravings which lead to eating larger portions and eating more often which leads to weight gain

Bruno26

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Plates are loaded full stop.

And people have no awareness of nutrition.

You believe it's carbs and that's fine. But plenty of others don't believe it's carbs and have a diet quite different to yours and are in good shape without being miserable or anything like it.

But to a basic appreciation of nutrition is beyond most of the population and therein lies the problem.

Its very difficult to overeat fat and protein. We all know this. What do you mean by miserable (very strange comment)? To be happy you have to eat carbs?

I'd be fairly certain the overweight people are carbohydrate resistant. Therefore reducing carbs will solve the problem.

Alf Veedersane

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

1/2 a cup of rice is about 85-90g.

Uncle Ben's 62.5g portion is for one. The 125g pouch is for 2.

But in the same way people look at ready meals that say "Serves 2-3 people" and laugh before polishing it off with a side of something like chips, the 125g of rice goes onto one plate. Along with an oversized dollop of the main part of the dinner.

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I'm basically agreeing with you on portion sizes.

Exactly, too easy to over-eat when you think carbs are the solid foundation. Advice on a wide-scale doesn't need to be accurate, it needs to be effective. And telling people that carbs should be the foundation of their diet doesn't seem to have worked.

I'm one to talk on this topic seeing as I'm so massive :P

diarmuid05

Counting calories from a diet that includes carbs and sugar is bloody tough and most people fail.

Remove the carbs and sugar, counting calories becomes so easy that u don't have to bother counting at all

Bruno26

kneemos wrote: »

If you're blaming the Food Pyramid you're definitely barking up the wrong tree,I doubt many even remember what was on it never mind follow it.

I wasn't blaming it. Some people said it was fine. If someone is overweight and uses it then it is part of the problem.

Bruno26

diarmuid05 wrote: »

Counting calories from a diet that includes carbs and sugar is bloody tough and most people fail.

Remove the carbs and sugar, counting calories becomes so easy that u don't have to bother counting at all

Exactly. It's a lifestyle change. The key thing is that it is easily sustainable but it does require a change of mindset and an understanding of what causes people to get fat.

walshb

Bruno26 wrote: »

The food pyramind does not work. It is not fine. If it was fine there would not be so many overweight unhealthy people. People overeat because they base their diet on carbohydrates (processed food). This results in feeling hungry again soon after eating which leads to overeating.

Why is it not fine? Weight gain is partly natural and partly eating more than what you expel.

Alf Veedersane

Bruno26 wrote: »

Exactly. It's a lifestyle change. The key thing is that it is easily sustainable but it does require a change of mindset and an understanding of what causes people to get fat.

The key is the second half of that.

People should have a better understanding of what they're eating so they have an appreciation of what they're doing and what they need to change.

Bruno26

walshb wrote: »

Why is it not fine? Weight gain is partly natural and partly eating more than what you expel.

It's not fine because it tells us to base our diet on carbs (grains) That's bad and incorrect advice.

Maximus Alexander

Eat when you're hungry, don't when you're not. Run or cycle, walk some places. Bam, all of a sudden you're a healthy weight.

People way over-complicate this.

MD1990

walshb wrote: »

The food and types of food, whilst important, is not the real issue. Over eating is the real issue. Even ingesting too much 'good' food will see you put on weight and add to your BMI. Portion size is key. Obey the food pyramid, or something similar, exercise and stay active and you can't go far wrong.

Not true imo. Irish people in general eat too many carbohydrates.

Blacktie.

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Eat when you're hungry, don't when you're not. Run or cycle, walk some places. Bam, all of a sudden you're a healthy weight.

People way over-complicate this.

You think people get fat because they want to? Eat when you're hungry isn't very helpful if you're raised to believe anything that's not a full stomach counts as hungry.

Maximus Alexander

Blacktie. wrote: »

You think people get fat because they want to? Eat when you're hungry isn't very helpful if you're raised to believe anything that's not a full stomach counts as hungry.

I'm not qualified to diagnose why people get fat and I never attempted to.

Bruno26

walshb wrote: »

The food and types of food, whilst important, is not the real issue. Over eating is the real issue. Even ingesting too much 'good' food will see you put on weight and add to your BMI. Portion size is key. Obey the food pyramid, or something similar, exercise and stay active and you can't go far wrong.

The type of food is the entire issue. People eat the wrong foods which leads to overeating. If people ate the right food they wouldn't overeat. There would be no need to count calories. Portion size isn't important if carbs (grains and sugar) are restricted. Your body (brain) will tell you when you feel full. The right foods satisfy hunger and stop cravings.

Exercise is brilliant but you can't out exercise a bad diet.

cc87

I think people should be accountable for their weight and any issues that may arise from being overweight. Medical treatment should be prescribed only once a willingness to address issues has being shown. Parents should be accountable for their children's weight.

Schools should do yearly health & fitness tests with rewards for meeting standards.

I think saying education is key doesn't work in Ireland and there's precedent to show that. Smoking levels only really started to drop after the smoking ban came into play. Drink-driving only started to drop after stricter enforcement and more testing. Its all about negative reinforcement!

Until it is easier to eat healthy than not, people won't.

Leroy42

Blacktie. wrote: »

You think people get fat because they want to? Eat when you're hungry isn't very helpful if you're raised to believe anything that's not a full stomach counts as hungry.

Maybe they don't want to get fat, but they make the choice that eating more is more important that any weight gain.

Are we really trying to suggest that people don't know what food is good or bad for them. Are people really suggesting that people think that curry chips is better for them than steamed veg?

Come on! People know this but make the choice anyway.

tayto lover

Stop worrying lads.
80% of African people are under-weight. I wonder which is healthier?

big syke

Leroy42 wrote: »

Maybe they don't want to get fat, but they make the choice that eating more is more important that any weight gain.

Are we really trying to suggest that people don't know what food is good or bad for them. Are people really suggesting that people think that curry chips is better for them than steamed veg?

Come on! People know this but make the choice anyway.

Well I know people who think a pasta, few breakfast bars, brown bread, diet drinks, low fat yoplat yogurts, granola bars, anything "low fat" etc are heathy food that help weight loss. So there is a misconception and miseducation on what is good and bad foods.

The amount of my work colleagues that say red meat, eggs, fats etc are bad is unreal. But it's not entirely their fault....

YFlyer

Anybody have access to the study? I just have Siobhan's 2012 paper when she was at University of Limerick.

Edit: Its ok, I found the report.

whenever

nice_guy80 wrote: »

irishtimes/news/health/almost-80-of-older-irish-adults-are-overweight-
shocking stat. and the children are not far behind.

a huge change of direction is needed.
maybe its time for the state to stop promoting the failed food pyramid model in schools - yep, still being taught.
stop pedalling a low fat diet as being healthy
introduce proper labelling on food - stop food companies claiming their products are good for health eg cereals, bread, yoghurts, spreads,
calories for each portion in restaurants and fast food outlets

What does it mean to say x% are overweight ? Is there some reference set of ideal humans who provide the averages against which to make this statement?

If people know that greater weight may shorten their lives then their lifestyle is their choice.

YFlyer

whenever wrote: »

What does it mean to say x% are overweight ? Is there some reference set of ideal humans who provide the averages against which to make this statement?

If people know that greater weight may shorten their lives then their lifestyle is their choice.

Its based on the WHO Body Mass Index (BMI) Classification.

whenever

YFlyer wrote: »

Its based on the WHO Body Mass Index (BMI) Classification.

So we take a nonlinear mapping of individual's height and weight to obtain a controlled variable to use to regulate societal behaviour.

YFlyer

I'm not a fan of BMI either. Muscular sports people would have a high BMI index.

Doug Cartel

A significant number of over 50s Irish males are muscular sports people now?

walshb

MD1990 wrote: »

Not true imo. Irish people in general eat too many carbohydrates.

Yes, types of food are important, that is why we have a food pyramid. It's people overeating, and overeating certain food types. Portion size is also important.