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Israel - Palestine History

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    #62
    iMrApex
    Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭iMrApex


    WakeUp wrote: »
    That's all well and good you seem to have all the answers. So why do Israelis keep stealing Palestinian land and oppressing them? why has Gaza been turned into an open air prison camp it's such an easy target they have no army to protect them and no way out . I've just been looking at some pictures in hindsight I wish I didn't but I did, of Palestinian kids laying on hospital beds with half their heads blown off harrowing stuff. What did they ever do on Israel. Fighter jets against a defenceless people is cowardice in the extreme the same way lobbing missiles indiscriminately at civilians is. back to my original question why do Israelis keep stealing their land? and think this is an ok civilised way for a so called democratic country to behave?

    Is it civilized for Palestinians to launch missiles against Israeli civilians? None of this is civilized. Rather than negotiating both sides had war after after. Granted, Israel do use much more sophisticated weaponry resulting in what they do to be deadlier.


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    #63
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    iMrApex wrote: »
    Is it civilized for Palestinians to launch missiles against Israeli civilians? None of this is civilized. Rather than negotiating both sides had war after after. Granted, Israel do use much more sophisticated weaponry resulting in what they do to be deadlier.

    Can you answer my question please. I'm not interested in your whataboutery not even remotely. Why do Israelis keep stealing their land and somehow think this a civilised way to behave?..


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    #64
    iMrApex
    Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭iMrApex


    WakeUp wrote: »
    Can you answer my question please. I'm not interested in your whataboutery not even remotely. Why do Israelis keep stealing their land and somehow think this a civilised way to behave?..

    I've already said that none of this is civilised.


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    #65
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    iMrApex wrote: »
    I've already said that none of this is civilised.

    But I'm asking you why is it happening? None of this is civilised?? - seriously save that sh1t for someone who doesn't have a brain in their head. Do Israelis collectively suffer from a lack of empathy and just not care. Do they just ignore the fact they continue to steal their neighbours stuff. What's going on?? Or do Israelis agree that theft and oppression is an ok course of action?..


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    #66
    iMrApex
    Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭iMrApex


    WakeUp wrote: »
    But I'm asking you why is it happening? None of this is civilised?? - seriously save that sh1t for someone who doesn't have a brain in their head. Do Israelis collectively suffer from a lack of empathy and just not care. Do they just ignore the fact they continue to steal their neighbours stuff. What's going on?? Or do Israelis agree that theft and oppression is an ok course of action?..

    Have you the first post of this thread, the history of the situation which is why this is happening.


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    #67
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    iMrApex wrote: »
    Have you the first post of this thread, the history of the situation which is why this is happening.

    What do you mean the history of the situation I'm afraid you're going to have to do a whole lot better than that . So in essence what you are stating is that theft and oppression is ok because of history??? really??..


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    #68
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    iMrApex wrote: »
    I'll rephrase the question. Why, with the support of the international community, was Jordan allowed to annex the West Bank?

    Did Palestinians object to Jordan administering the West Bank? It was a practical interim solution. You cannot compare that to the Israeli land grab with colonising intentions. Jordanians didn't colonise the West Bank.
    You really need to get it into your head that imperialism and colonialism are passé.
    People opening pro-Zionist threads would do us a service by declaring their relationship to Israel and Zionism.


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    #69
    iMrApex
    Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭iMrApex


    feargale wrote: »
    Did Palestinians object to Jordan adminitering the West Bank? It was a practical interim solution. You cannot compare that to the Israeli land grab with colonising intentions. Jordanians didn't colonise the West Bank.
    You really need to get it into your head that imperialism and colonialism are passé.
    People opening pro-Zionist threads would do us a service by declaring their relationship to Israel and Zionism.

    The PLO along with the Arab League were completely against Jordan annexing the West Bank. The international community did not care and accepted the annexation even though people were against it.
    WakeUp wrote: »
    What do you mean the history of the situation I'm afraid you're going to have to do a whole lot better than that . So in essence what you are stating is that theft and oppression is ok because of history??? really??..

    What is going on now is a result of what is in my original post. It's like asking why the French and British had wars, why India and Pakistan had wars, etc. All due to the history. Israel have taken land which had previously belonged to countries which had attacked them. What was the attackers intention?


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    #70
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    iMrApex wrote: »
    The PLO along with the Arab League were completely against Jordan annexing the West Bank. The international community did not care and accepted the annexation even though people were against it.



    What is going on now is a result of what is in my original post. It's like asking why the French and British had wars, why India and Pakistan had wars, etc. All due to the history.

    How is asking you to justify or explain Israeli theft and oppression akin to why the French and British went to war?.. Explain that to me...


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    #71
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    iMrApex wrote: »
    What is going on now is a result of what is in my original post. It's like asking why the French and British had wars, why India and Pakistan had wars, etc. All due to the history.

    All due to injustice.


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    #72
    iMrApex
    Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭iMrApex


    WakeUp wrote: »
    How is asking you to justify or explain Israeli theft and oppression akin to why the French and British went to war?.. Explain that to me...

    Israel has taken land which had previously belonged to countries which attempted to invade them. Were these countries invading Israel for fun or to destroy the Israeli state?


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    #73
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    iMrApex wrote: »
    Israel has taken land which had previously belonged to countries which attempted to invade them. Were these countries invading Israel for fun or to destroy the Israeli state?


    It's irrelevant, as the seizing of territory by force is illegal.


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    #74
    iMrApex
    Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭iMrApex


    Nodin wrote: »
    It's irrelevant, as the seizing of territory by force is illegal.

    What the Arabs and Israelis have done is illegal according to international law, who's right?


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    #75
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    iMrApex wrote: »
    Israel has taken land which had previously belonged to countries which attempted to invade them. Were these countries invading Israel for fun or to destroy the Israeli state?

    It's really an eye opener to see you even attempt to justify people being bulldozed off their land and having it stolen from them. do the majority of Israelis agree with Palestinians being kicked off their land and having it stolen from them ?...


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    #76
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    iMrApex wrote: »
    What the Arabs and Israelis have done is illegal according to international law, who's right?


    Who are these "arabs"?

    The Palestinians are not colonising Israel. Israel is colonising areas outside its borders and supplanting the Palestinian people. Do you support this?


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    #77
    iMrApex
    Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭iMrApex


    Nodin wrote: »
    Who are these "arabs"?

    The Palestinians are not colonising Israel. Israel is colonising areas outside its borders and supplanting the Palestinian people. Do you support this?

    Arabs are Arabic speaking people. Egyptians, Syrian, Jordanians, etc. Both sides have committed crimes, you can't say either side is right. Israel is building on land which it obtained through war, it could have been the other way around. Israel can build whatever they please in their land.


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    #78
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    iMrApex wrote: »
    Arabs are Arabic speaking people. Egyptians, Syrian, Jordanians, etc. .

    Then please refer to Egyptians, Syrians or whoever is actually involved.
    iMrApex wrote: »
    Both sides have committed crimes, you can't say either side is right. Israel is building on land which it obtained through war, it could have been the other way around. Israel can build whatever they please in their land.


    There is no right of conquest. It is not Israeli land, therefore Israel is colonising it illegally. Do you support colonisation? Yes or no will suffice.


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    #79
    iMrApex
    Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭iMrApex


    Nodin wrote: »
    Then please refer to Egyptians, Syrians or whoever is actually involved.



    There is no right of conquest. It is not Israeli land, therefore Israel is colonising it illegally. Do you support colonisation? Yes or no will suffice.

    As I've mentioned so many times, no one is in the right. What every one involved has done is illegal. Invasions, etc. No I don't support colonisation. Israel is not on UN list of colonized territory holders


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    #80
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    iMrApex wrote: »
    As I've mentioned so many times, no one is in the right. What every one involved has done is illegal. Invasions, etc. No I don't support colonisation.

    Contradictory.

    Then why did you state

    "What do I think should be done with Palestinians? They are free to do what they want. Continue to live under Israeli rule, move to Jordan / Egypt, etc." ?

    Then why do you keep referring to the occupied territories as if it were Israeli territory and saying Israel has a right to build there?

    The invasions are long over, so I fail to see what the point is of continuallly dragging them up.


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    #81
    iMrApex
    Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭iMrApex


    Nodin wrote: »
    Contradictory.

    Then why did you state

    "What do I think should be done with Palestinians? They are free to do what they want. Continue to live under Israeli rule, move to Jordan / Egypt, etc." ?

    Then why do you keep referring to the occupied territories as if it were Israeli territory and saying Israel has a right to build there?

    The invasions are long over, so I fail to see what the point is of continuallly dragging them up.

    As we speak it's Israeli territory. Israel is not on the UN list of colonized territory holders, you're accusing Israel and not backing it up.


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    #82
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    iMrApex wrote: »
    As I've mentioned so many times, no one is in the right. What every one involved has done is illegal. Invasions, etc. No I don't support colonisation. Israel is not on UN list of colonized territory holders

    It's interesting that you mention the UN. Israelis ignore international law if and when it suits them. and wave it about if and when it suits them. The Israeli government seem to do what they like if and when it suits them. The UN is a club based more upon geopolitical alignments as opposed to a non-bias bastion or protector of people's rights or whatever. The security council and how it operates will tell you all you need to know about that- (US vetoes in relation to certain issues pertaining to Israel). The UN is a club with clicks - we live in a realist world.


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    #83
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    iMrApex wrote: »
    As we speak it's Israeli territory. .

    It is not Israeli territory.
    iMrApex wrote: »
    Israel is not on the UN list of colonized territory holders, you're accusing Israel and not backing it up.


    They are building colonies in areas outside their recognised borders.

    If you are against Israeli colonisation why did you state

    "What do I think should be done with Palestinians? They are free to do what they want. Continue to live under Israeli rule, move to Jordan / Egypt, etc." ?

    Then why do you keep referring to the occupied territories as if it were Israeli territory and saying Israel has a right to build there?

    The invasions are long over, so I fail to see what the point is of continuallly dragging them up.


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    #84
    iMrApex
    Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭iMrApex


    WakeUp wrote: »
    It's interesting that you mention the UN. Israelis ignore international law if and when it suits them. and wave it about if and when it suits them. The Israeli government seem to do what they like if and when it suits them. The UN is a club based more upon geopolitical alignments as opposed to a non-bias bastion or protector of people's rights or whatever. The security council and how it operates will tell you all you need to know about that- (US vetoes in relation to certain issues pertaining to Israel). The UN is a club with clicks - we live in a realist world.

    Exactly! We do leave in a realist world and this is what is real:
    SELxlkh.jpg

    You may not recognise that personally but that is what the border is in reality.


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    #85
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    iMrApex wrote: »
    Exactly! We do leave in a realist world and this is what is real:
    SELxlkh.jpg

    You may not recognise that personally but that is what the border is in reality.

    So how do you figure I don't recognise Israel point out to me where I've stated that and when you can't explain to me how you have come to that conclusion...


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    #86
    iMrApex
    Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭iMrApex


    WakeUp wrote: »
    So how do you figure I don't recognise Israel point out to me where I've stated that and when you can't explain to me how you have come to that conclusion...

    You've been arguing that Israel has been "stealing Palestinian land". There is no Palestine in reality, it's all Israel and that is what is being shown in that map. According to pieces of paper stored in a building part of that land should be Palestinian, that is not reality.
    WakeUp wrote: »
    we live in a realist world.

    That quote sums everything up for me.


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    #87
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    iMrApex wrote: »
    You've been arguing that Israel has been "stealing Palestinian land". There is no Palestine in reality, it's all Israel and that is what is being shown in that map. According to pieces of paper stored in a building part of that land should be Palestinian, that is not reality.


    .

    Again, this is untrue. The fact that there is no Palestinian state does not give Israel any right to the land.

    Please respond to these questions -

    They are building colonies in areas outside their recognised borders.

    If you are against Israeli colonisation why did you state

    "What do I think should be done with Palestinians? They are free to do what they want. Continue to live under Israeli rule, move to Jordan / Egypt, etc." ?

    Then why do you keep referring to the occupied territories as if it were Israeli territory and saying Israel has a right to build there?


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    #88
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    iMrApex wrote: »
    You've been arguing that Israel has been "stealing Palestinian land". There is no Palestine in reality, it's Israel and that is what is being shown in that map.

    You have an interesting mind set to say the least. So pointing out Israeli theft of Palestinian homes defacto Palestinian land somehow equates to me not recognising Israel . Your logic is most interesting unsound yet interesting. Can you suggest any reading material for me? are you a pro ponent of the greater Israel theory...


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    #89
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    iMrApex wrote: »
    You've been arguing that Israel has been "stealing Palestinian land". There is no Palestine in reality, it's all Israel and that is what is being shown in that map. According to pieces of paper stored in a building part of that land should be Palestinian, that is not reality.



    That quote sums everything up for me.

    I'm sure it does, I'm in the process of figuring you out though your interpretation of what I meant by that would not be similar to mine.


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    #90
    sheesh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭sheesh


    iMrApex wrote: »
    You've been arguing that Israel has been "stealing Palestinian land". There is no Palestine in reality, it's all Israel and that is what is being shown in that map. According to pieces of paper stored in a building part of that land should be Palestinian, that is not reality.

    Would you prefer if people said 'Israel is stealing the land of those people we refer to as Palestinians'

    Because I can totally do for you.

    Israel stole the land off those people we now call Palestinians.

    Before the the european jews arrived in the region called Palestine after world war 2, people lived there mostly Muslim, some Christians, some jews had come from germany before the war and had settled in palestine before ww1.

    But it was mainly Muslim they had organised government and records of ownership of property these people were forced out by war and their lands were taken. there is a wrong there that cannot be assuaged by saying 'there was no country called palestine'


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    #91
    iMrApex
    Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭iMrApex


    sheesh wrote: »
    Would you prefer if people said 'Israel is stealing the land of those people we refer to as Palestinians'

    Because I can totally do for you.

    Israel stole the land off those people we now call Palestinians.

    Before the the european jews arrived in the region called Palestine after world war 2, people lived there mostly Muslim, some Christians, some jews had come from germany before the war and had settled in palestine before ww1.

    But it was mainly Muslim they had organised government and records of ownership of property these people were forced out by war and their lands were taken. there is a wrong there that cannot be assuaged by saying 'there was no country called palestine'

    Palestine was a country on paper, not in reality. The civil war in British Mandate resulted in a Jewish victory, Israel was declared. They possessed all prior British mandate land apart from the West Bank (Palestinian land according to the partition plan though the international community welcomed this annexation) which was annexed by Jordan and Gaza. Palestine didn't exist, it was on paper.

    Wake up I never said you didn't recognise Israel, I was talking about the border. You may recognise the border as being that of the one in the partition plan but that is not the border in reality.

    Israel can do what they wish on land which is there's, they can't steal Palestinian land when it doesn't exist.


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