Death of Athletics, the benefits?

ecoli

Saw this on letsrun;

http://www.paulcoover.com/2014/07/track-is-dead-and-thats-good-thing.html?spref=fb&m=1

Normally don't read too much into these types of articles as I have always been part of the brigade trying to promote the sport to the masses but I think there are some excellent points made here.

There has been no correlation between the rise in marathon running over the past decade and the rise in popularity of athletics. Membership numbers are at an all time high yet attendance levels at National Seniors and indeed Euro Team Championships were fairly abysmal.

Should the niche element be focused on to prevent tradition and the things which make the sport appealing to those of us who follow it. Success will breed the casual fans but other than that should the focus lie on those already with an interest?

average_runner

ecoli wrote: »

Saw this on letsrun;

http://www.paulcoover.com/2014/07/track-is-dead-and-thats-good-thing.html?spref=fb&m=1

Normally don't read too much into these types of articles as I have always been part of the brigade trying to promote the sport to the masses but I think there are some excellent points made here.

There has been no correlation between the rise in marathon running over the past decade and the rise in popularity of athletics. Membership numbers are at an all time high yet attendance levels at National Seniors and indeed Euro Team Championships were fairly abysmal.

Should the niche element be focused on to prevent tradition and the things which make the sport appealing to those of us who follow it. Success will breed the casual fans but other than that should the focus lie on those already with an interest?

I thnk the difference with the marathon and track is, the marathon caters for all, track caters for the fastest and forgets the lower levels, especially in Ireland!!

dublin runner

average_runner wrote: »

I thnk the difference with the marathon and track is, the marathon caters for all, track caters for the fastest and forgets the lower levels, especially in Ireland!!

I don't think this is quite true. I think that's the perception for sure though. Athletics does have an almost elitist perception in many peoples eyes, particularly when looking at track and field.

ecoli

average_runner wrote: »

I thnk the difference with the marathon and track is, the marathon caters for all, track caters for the fastest and forgets the lower levels, especially in Ireland!!

The topic was not so much to do with participation but more general popularity as a sport but I take your point.

I wouldn't say that track forgets or ignores the lower levels,

In terms of races yes there are a few which have a minimum entry standard due to logistics (IMC races etc where 8 lanes on a track means only 8 can run in a race) but take a look at the likes of the graded meets who don't turn any athletes away yet the numbers are small due to lack of demand which again results in great disparity of levels down the fields.

average_runner

ecoli wrote: »

The topic was not so much to do with participation but more general popularity as a sport but I take your point.

I wouldn't say that track forgets or ignores the lower levels,

In terms of races yes there are a few which have a minimum entry standard due to logistics (IMC races etc where 8 lanes on a track means only 8 can run in a race) but take a look at the likes of the graded meets who don't turn any athletes away yet the numbers are small due to lack of demand which again results in great disparity of levels down the fields.

I suppose on the popularity of the sport, drugs has done alot of damage. Also there is alot more runners from the African nations winning now and people in the West cant associate with them as much, not like Steve Cram, sonia, Paula etc.

RayCun

I think you have to start by accepting that athletics is not ever going to be as popular as team-based field sports. There is no simple marketing technique or change in meet format that is going to make a mass audience care as much about national championships as they do about a football match.
So, when you rule that out, what is it we want to happen?

barryoneill50

i read on another thread the the d grade for the graded events in Dublin have been dropped. Doesn't exactly encourage participation on the lower end of things...

RayCun

barryoneill50 wrote: »

i read on another thread the the d grade for the graded events in Dublin have been dropped. Doesn't exactly encourage participation on the lower end of things...

mixing up cause and effect there I think

pconn062

While I totally agree with not dumbing down the sport just to suit the masses, I think there are some simple small changes that could be made to make athletics meets more crowd friendly. Something as simple as having music playing between events makes a huge difference in terms of atmosphere. We could get the Jumping the Gun lads to do like commentary at all the big events, interviewing the athletes, getting to know their characters. Allow beer to be sold on the premises (a stereotype I know, but a few beers on a nice evening at the Morton Games would be awesome). None of these change to sport at all, but would merely make the event more enjoyable for the people who showed up.

pconn062

barryoneill50 wrote: »

i read on another thread the the d grade for the graded events in Dublin have been dropped. Doesn't exactly encourage participation on the lower end of things...

Only in the 400m, D grade still available in most events.

RayCun

ecoli wrote: »

Saw this on letsrun;

http://www.paulcoover.com/2014/07/track-is-dead-and-thats-good-thing.html?spref=fb&m=1

amusing that so many of the comments on that article are
"OMG! Metric?!?! :eek::eek::eek::eek:"

ecoli

RayCun wrote: »

I think you have to start by accepting that athletics is not ever going to be as popular as team-based field sports. There is no simple marketing technique or change in meet format that is going to make a mass audience care as much about national championships as they do about a football match.
So, when you rule that out, what is it we want to happen?

Golf is among the top 10 most watched sports in the world so obviously single player sports can have appeal to the masses from a fan based perspective.

average_runner

ecoli wrote: »

Golf is among the top 10 most watched sports in the world so obviously single player sports can have appeal to the masses from a fan based perspective.

Yep, but the stars of golf are world wide and people can connect to them, its the opposite for Athletics

ecoli

average_runner wrote: »

Yep, but the stars of golf are world wide and people can connect to them, its the opposite for Athletics

I would argue that

Take London Olympics for example with regards nations without great heritage in events doing well;

- An Iranian, Japanese and Carribean winning throwing medals
- US, France and GB medalling in distance races
- A Guatamalan winning a walks medal
- A Grenandan winning the 400m
- A white Australian winning a sprint event
- A Colombian winning a jumps event
- Ukrainians medaling in relay

You have athletes from all over the globe not only competiting but winning medals in events where there was no tradition, again I think perception and reality are a long way off

ecoli

In terms of relatability also the most popular athletes in the world at the moment would probably be as follows

- A Jamaican sprinter
- A Kenyan middle distance runner
- A Croatia High Jumper
- A Russian Pole Vaulter
- A Ukranian High Jumper
- A French Pole Vaulter
- A British (Somalian) distance runner


To me that signifies that the character can transition beyond cultural background (not getting into another cultural debate though)

barryoneill50

RayCun wrote: »

mixing up cause and effect there I think

Maybe I am. But you have to stop the downward spiral somewhere. The way to tackle poor participation is not to cut the number of events. I'd bet there is a few decent 400m runners who started out just giving th D grade race a go and have gone on to compete at a decent level, or at least enjoy those events. If that D race wasn't there would they have ran in the C grade?

ecoli

barryoneill50 wrote: »

Maybe I am. But you have to stop the downward spiral somewhere. The way to tackle poor participation is not to cut the number of events. I'd bet there is a few decent 400m runners who started out just giving th D grade race a go and have gone on to compete at a decent level, or at least enjoy those events. If that D race wasn't there would they have ran in the C grade?

I think they did, as far as I know they combined these athletes with the C grade and ran three races, I think it probably better to have full races than have 3 guys running in a D race on their own with lack of numbers.

I have seen it happen in sprints races where they had this happen before and 4 from the same club who train together ended up racing against each other and their response was "if we wanted a club time trial, we would have went training" so its a double edged sword

average_runner

ecoli wrote: »

In terms of relatability also the most popular athletes in the world at the moment would probably be as follows

- A Jamaican sprinter
- A Kenyan middle distance runner
- A Croatia High Jumper
- A Russian Pole Vaulter
- A Ukranian High Jumper
- A French Pole Vaulter
- A British (Somalian) distance runner


To me that signifies that the character can transition beyond cultural background (not getting into another cultural debate though)

Yet most people would only know the sprinter and british runner!!
Most of them have no connection with the people and another big thing, the best are afraid to race each other on the track often.

rom

Now I have never raced a bike and I think the last time I was on one was like 4 years ago. Now the Tour De France is on at the moment. I have never watched it before and I am glued to it. We have a thread on here about when meets are on TV. Often times where they are you have on the BBC someone blowing smoke up Paula for most of the commentary. You have the olympics every 4 years and everyone watches it and knows who is running etc. The world champs fall a bit flat in comparison. Commentary like JTG has given to some events recently been great. A long event it can get quite boring for someone like Jerry Kieran to tell us every single detail of an athlete. A lot of the reason why athletics is not a popular spectator sport is down to the production quality when it is on. I have watched too many marathons where there is no time clock or distance onscreen. How hard is to have this information coming from the leading bike?

ecoli

average_runner wrote: »

Yet most people would only know the sprinter and british runner!!
Most of them have no connection with the people and another big thing, the best are afraid to race each other on the track often.

I think that's the point the article is making, with all the perceptional issues very few are going to be enticed into following the sport so is it not better to focus on the values which have attracted the current followers and accept it as a niche sport as opposed to trying to change to attract the general viewer.

pconn062

average_runner wrote: »

Yet most people would only know the sprinter and british runner!!
Most of them have no connection with the people and another big thing, the best are afraid to race each other on the track often.

That might be the case with big city marathons, but it's certainly not the case on the track. Look at the mens 5,000m at the Diamond League last week, it was stacked.

Also, what can the athletes do to "connect" with people? Tiger Woods is perhaps one of the biggest names in sport, but he's hardly known for his inter-personal skills.

RayCun

ecoli wrote: »

Golf is among the top 10 most watched sports in the world so obviously single player sports can have appeal to the masses from a fan based perspective.

About 150,000 adult golfers in Ireland I think (and golf is only one step removed from watching TV anyway :-) )
Maybe 25000 adult athletics club members, most of whom won't run track

RayCun

barryoneill50 wrote: »

Maybe I am. But you have to stop the downward spiral somewhere. The way to tackle poor participation is not to cut the number of events. I'd bet there is a few decent 400m runners who started out just giving th D grade race a go and have gone on to compete at a decent level, or at least enjoy those events. If that D race wasn't there would they have ran in the C grade?

First, C and D grades are nominal anyway. D does not mean 70 seconds plus, or any particular time. The weakest race is the weakest race, whether you call it C, D, or E.
And the organisers can't make runners of a standard turn up. They would love to have a race of people running about 70 seconds, but if they aren't there they aren't there.

barryoneill50

RayCun wrote: »

First, C and D grades are nominal anyway. D does not mean 70 seconds plus, or any particular time. The weakest race is the weakest race, whether you call it C, D, or E.
And the organisers can't make runners of a standard turn up. They would love to have a race of people running about 70 seconds, but if they aren't there they aren't there.

Fair enough, I assumed each grade had a specific time zone. I suppose A and B would, with C being for all others...

Tigerandahalf

If you look in the golf forum you will see threads about clubs losing members and not attracting young people. A major reason being expense.
A lot of it is down to accessibility too. How many people have access to a running track and field area in their locality?
I think long term the parkrun movement will be a boon for athletics club memberships. It is free to take part in parkruns and they could be in every major town. People then tend to join
clubs.
Very few schools are involved in athletics with the exception of a sports day. So it is harder to draw in people.
It would benefit athletics if there were county competitions as people who are not super talented still have an incentive to take part and win at their county grade. The community games has been very successful with this strategy but it is not available for adults. Many sports like GAA, soccer and rugby have Junior B and C teams to cater for the guy who is keen but not talented. All these guys will in turn give something back re coaching, becoming adminstrators or buying tickets in fundraising efforts.
The lack of success of Irish athletes and drug issues don't help.
Since Katie Taylor came on the scene there is a good few girls attending boxing clubs.
All these things add up.

PVincent

I think that the Brits have worked really hard at marketing athletics to their advantage , and whilst it has yet to transfer into medals , it has transferred into a boost in the clubs, and attendance at Grand Prix. I love what they do at these big city races when they lay a special track and have sprints, hurdles, pole vaults etc. I don't expect The AAI to do that because we only have three big races ( marathon, rock and roll, and great irl run) but they are trying with kids races at the R&R and great ireland run. In the Uk they have also marketed Sportshall games fully to bring kids into the sport and if I am not mistaken they have some class of a 2hr all action track team competition for kids clubs that is very popular. I know they have more access to tracks etc , but we need to spice up track events , especially for kids. The days of people having the time to spend 4/5 , even 6 hours out in Santry waiting for their kids to run are well over. And it turns the parents off , never mind the kids. We need to be innovative and in fairness some clubs are really putting effort in , like Le Cheile a few weeks ago, and don't Greystones do something . The Morton Games is on tommorrow and how much publicity has there been . There is some serious talent out there tommorrow but how many will attend. Local interclub challenges, track talent identification days, come and try the shot putt or discus days, and many other ideas , should be the order of the day if we want to grow the 'track' side of our sport.

pconn062

As an example, you can see the lack of interest in athletic discussion by the little interest that is generated by threads like this, on an athletics forum. WHat hope do we have with the general public! :pac:

mithril

What kind of attendance would there have been at the Morton Games during the sixties and seventies (might have been called something different then)?
Shocked last year by the contrast between the very high standard on the track and the very small numbers in the stadium. Before televised sport, I think it might have got a much bigger turnout?

MacAttackJ

Re the graded meets, have been thinking of giving them a go but looking at previous results has not encouraged me. The standard is rather high but as another poster said, the interest is perhaps not there at lower levels. Suppose so what if I come last. I'm an ok club runner standard so makes me realise the large majority of club runners never race track. Even tinier % of non club runners of course.

tHE vAGGABOND

I think its about having "stars"

Im going to the morton games later, but its more out of interest, guilt at loving running and NEVER been to a track meet of any kind [but been to many many other live sporting events in many cool places] and not to forget supporting a few folks from the club running..

But I bet when Sonia was at her peak the numbers taking part and going to watch were up on what they were now, folks joined in. Its like a soccer mad mate of mine called the Irish team we had a few years back "the jack charlton generation" ie: they got soccer mad watching Euro 88 and Italia 90 etc..

But the Jumping The Gun lads made a great point, that in his final year of school Cian Healy was Schools Shot and Discus Champion [and had national schools record in one I think?], but he was also a Schools Rugby international. His choice was rugby [so...fame, massive crowds, a world class support structure, a good wage, and anything he needs on tap] or T&F in Ireland [er...8 grand a year funding and no other support, ever?] - that must have been a hard one to pick

rainbow kirby

PVincent wrote: »

I think that the Brits have worked really hard at marketing athletics to their advantage , and whilst it has yet to transfer into medals , it has transferred into a boost in the clubs, and attendance at Grand Prix. I love what they do at these big city races when they lay a special track and have sprints, hurdles, pole vaults etc. I don't expect The AAI to do that because we only have three big races ( marathon, rock and roll, and great irl run) but they are trying with kids races at the R&R and great ireland run.

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

I think its about having "stars"

I'd agree with both here. Loads of kids at the Diamond League at the Olympic stadium last summer and nothing quite like a home Olympics with a few home medals to try and get people's attention, and at any event I've done with a kids race here they have been quite popular. Lots of kids would at least recognise Mo Farah and Usain Bolt.