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universal permit

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    #32
    danbrosnan
    Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭danbrosnan


    a rod license is obviously the only thing possible and logical..


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    #33
    madred006
    Registered Users Posts: 631 ✭✭✭madred006


    danbrosnan wrote: »
    a rod license is obviously the only thing possible and logical..

    That's not going to happen ! It may be a good thing yes to some and to others they are staunch in their opposition of it. It's a tough one yes one all round licence would make sense ,but when you have lads that won't even join local clubs and think it's their birth right to fish .The resources just not available to impliment it or police it .


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    #34
    danbrosnan
    Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭danbrosnan


    madred006 wrote: »
    That's not going to happen ! It may be a good thing yes to some and to others they are staunch in their opposition of it. It's a tough one yes one all round licence would make sense ,but when you have lads that won't even join local clubs and think it's their birth right to fish .The resources just not available to impliment it or police it .

    Ok I respect your opinion but I believe it is gonna happen either 2015 or 2016...

    It makes perfect sense and it will actually make things easier from an admin point of view, even fishery officers would agree I do think...

    One license for the Republic of Ireland so if you fish for mackerel or salmon you need to have a license... It is the same in most European countries...

    What it would also do is gain more respect for our oceans and rivers...

    People would actually respect our piers also where mass killing of fish goes on every night of the week...

    More revenue for fisheries protection, also we would actually have an actual factual number on the amount of anglers in Ireland, more power in government, anglers could form as one group instead of being divided because of the species you fish for...

    What are the disadvantages? If there is some the advantages far outweigh them...


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    #35
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    I think the people responsible for the mass killing of fish will do so regardless of whether they need a licence or not.


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    #36
    madred006
    Registered Users Posts: 631 ✭✭✭madred006


    danbrosnan wrote: »
    Ok I respect your opinion but I believe it is gonna happen either 2015 or 2016...

    It makes perfect sense and it will actually make things easier from an admin point of view, even fishery officers would agree I do think...

    One license for the Republic of Ireland so if you fish for mackerel or salmon you need to have a license... It is the same in most European countries...

    What it would also do is gain more respect for our oceans and rivers...

    People would actually respect our piers also where mass killing of fish goes on every night of the week...

    More revenue for fisheries protection, also we would actually have an actual factual number on the amount of anglers in Ireland, more power in government, anglers could form as one group instead of being divided because of the species you fish for...

    What are the disadvantages? If there is some the advantages far outweigh them...

    Dan I'm not arguing with you I'm paying 100 for salmon licence 30 to local club 60 to a club and 40 for midlands licence .Yes it would be great to have one charge and leave it at that but if you think that it will stop the netting of rivers and garnish more respect for waters ,I don't think it will ,when this fiasco arose in the 80s it split families apart and will again ,I really think it's a long way down the line the main representitive bodies can't agree on any 1 aspect of it and will never unite together too many perks to be lost be a few .


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    #37
    djflawless
    Registered Users Posts: 1,868 ✭✭✭djflawless


    Conrad Future Gift wrote: »
    I think the people responsible for the mass killing of fish will do so regardless of whether they need a licence or not.

    Its the same as car insurance.people still drive without it
    So be it on their own heads but if a system was set up, it could lead to more prosecutions for offenders


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    #38
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    djflawless wrote: »
    Its the same as car insurance.people still drive without it
    So be it on their own heads but if a system was set up, it could lead to more prosecutions for offenders

    If people are poaching or taking fish in contravention of the law, the fact of them having a licence or not will make no difference.
    How will a licence help any person fishing for a few mackerel for 3 or 4 days a year? How will a licence do any more for our local trout water than we are doing with our club fees at present? What will a licence do for me fishing for pike on the small lake beside my house?
    I pay my club fees to 2 clubs and have my salmon licence maybe 3 years in 5, when I decide I'd like to do a bit of salmon fishing but a licence for all species is a step to far for many casual or infrequent anglers. I think it will dissuade many people from fishing altogether.

    Car insurance is not comparable at all.


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    #39
    djflawless
    Registered Users Posts: 1,868 ✭✭✭djflawless


    I was trying to get at the point that if people don't have a membership, and know that there is water officials there because of funding, and prosecutions are being made, it might be a deterrent
    The reason I made a point about car insurance is that, most people won't drive a car without insurance, with the top 2 causes of hitting someone else's car etc, or being caught and prosecuted by an active Garda force
    Basically my opinion is,
    If water officials are more active with funding equalling prosecution, it might reduce even a small number of poaching activity and increase in memberships payed for


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    #40
    madred006
    Registered Users Posts: 631 ✭✭✭madred006


    djflawless wrote: »
    I was trying to get at the point that if people don't have a membership, and know that there is water officials there because of funding, and prosecutions are being made, it might be a deterrent
    The reason I made a point about car insurance is that, most people won't drive a car without insurance, with the top 2 causes of hitting someone else's car etc, or being caught and prosecuted by an active Garda force
    Basically my opinion is,
    If water officials are more active with funding equalling prosecution, it might reduce even a small number of poaching activity and increase in memberships payed for

    Under new proposals the policing will be carried out by volunteers without remuneration . These people will have no more powers than current water keepers in clubs all around us .


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    #41
    djflawless
    Registered Users Posts: 1,868 ✭✭✭djflawless


    madred006 wrote: »
    Under new proposals the policing will be carried out by volunteers without remuneration . These people will have no more powers than current water keepers in clubs all around us .

    But it will put more of them on the ground?


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    #42
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    djflawless wrote: »
    But it will put more of them on the ground?

    Not if they will then have to police salmon, trout, pike, coarse, sea.....Not a hope! More protection for salmon perhaps but policing every mackerel and LRF mark and every coarse fish venue???


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    #43
    madred006
    Registered Users Posts: 631 ✭✭✭madred006


    djflawless wrote: »
    But it will put more of them on the ground?

    Would you confront a gang of 3-5 lads fishing and get involved in a situation for nothing ?


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    #44
    djflawless
    Registered Users Posts: 1,868 ✭✭✭djflawless


    Isn't there lads already at it?
    Do we just let these lads get away because there's a few of them?
    If they are doing something illegal can gardai not be called?


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    #45
    madred006
    Registered Users Posts: 631 ✭✭✭madred006


    djflawless wrote: »
    Isn't there lads already at it?
    Do we just let these lads get away because there's a few of them?
    If they are doing something illegal can gardai not be called?

    Yes every night up and down the country , but it's hard enough to get guards for a break in or accident .They not coming out to the river to enforce the unenforceable.


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    #46
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    madred006 wrote: »
    Would you confront a gang of 3-5 lads fishing and get involved in a situation for nothing ?

    Plus, all they do is buy one licence and IFI can't do a thing if they have no permit for the waters involved anyway.


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    #47
    danbrosnan
    Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭danbrosnan


    Lads do ye not think the fact that we don't actually have a number on the amount of anglers in Ireland is effecting the importance of anglers in Ireland...

    This license when implemented will provide that, which means we have a voice, a meaning and a whole community that is not divided..

    The problem in Ireland is that the angling community is completely divided, pike anglers, salmon anglers, bass anglers and people like me who fish for everything...

    Do I think that this is the answer to having a perfect fishing community, where salmon will travel down the west coast without being deterred by a thousand nets, No... But it's a start...

    As far as I am concerned a salmon is the same as a pike and the angler fishing for each of them are the same, the only difference is the location of each angler and what fishing is near them...

    It's funny I hear some people in this thread complaining about the gill netting in the lochs a few months of the native pike... But the main reason that is allowed is because of the ignorance of the fishery board and the fact that the fishing community up there is so divided..

    A salmon angler must buy a licence so straight away because you don't buy a license for a pike makes a pike inferior...

    We are all anglers, and if like me you obsess over angling, I would go as far as to say angling is my life, along with my family it's the most important thing in my life, the sea and river provides me with so much...

    If somebody wants to fish three or four times a year for mackerel then yes like me that person should pay a fee, the problem is we do not respect the sea, that's why we gave it to European Union so Norwegians and Spanish can pillage it till there's notin left...

    It costs money to protect the marine habitats in Ireland and a mackerel or salmon or pike costs the state money to protect that species..

    I feel very strongly the only way forward as an angling community is as one not divided into 100 different opinions or beliefs..


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    #48
    madred006
    Registered Users Posts: 631 ✭✭✭madred006


    danbrosnan wrote: »
    Lads do ye not think the fact that we don't actually have a number on the amount of anglers in Ireland is effecting the importance of anglers in Ireland...

    This license when implemented will provide that, which means we have a voice, a meaning and a whole community that is not divided..

    The problem in Ireland is that the angling community is completely divided, pike anglers, salmon anglers, bass anglers and people like me who fish for everything...

    Do I think that this is the answer to having a perfect fishing community, where salmon will travel down the west coast without being deterred by a thousand nets, No... But it's a start...

    As far as I am concerned a salmon is the same as a pike and the angler fishing for each of them are the same, the only difference is the location of each angler and what fishing is near them...

    It's funny I hear some people in this thread complaining about the gill netting in the lochs a few months of the native pike... But the main reason that is allowed is because of the ignorance of the fishery board and the fact that the fishing community up there is so divided..

    A salmon angler must buy a licence so straight away because you don't buy a license for a pike makes a pike inferior...

    We are all anglers, and if like me you obsess over angling, I would go as far as to say angling is my life, along with my family it's the most important thing in my life, the sea and river provides me with so much...

    If somebody wants to fish three or four times a year for mackerel then yes like me that person should pay a fee, the problem is we do not respect the sea, that's why we gave it to European Union so Norwegians and Spanish can pillage it till there's notin left...

    It costs money to protect the marine habitats in Ireland and a mackerel or salmon or pike costs the state money to protect that species..

    I feel very strongly the only way forward as an angling community is as one not divided into 100 different opinions or beliefs..
    Well raised many valuable pts.firstly in all walks of life you have those that pay and those that don't for many different reasons that will always be .Numbers of anglers are irrelevant Itffa tafi and other organisations pike anglers salmon and sea trout etc etc all have there own numbers and can provide same to you on the morning if you so wish ,we have a voice but it's been delivered by each federation and there is no coherence in it .That is a major stumbling block .How many salmon and sea trout are caught in nets from legal and illegal methods ???? No one has a clue .I have seen salmon and sea trout leaving currane without gill tags salmon leaving the corrib without tags and I'm sure elsewhere aswell so that's also a problem that needs addressing . I have heard of fishery offices been rang and poaching reported but lads were told we havnt got petrol for the engines or we havnt the man power .
    Finally the cost been roumered is 80-100 euro adult teenagers and oaps reduced rate . Now I for one would hate to see a parent go on holidays with say 2 kids and they ask to fish off a pier for an hour or so been burdened with this nonesense, tons of fish are thrown overboard each year because of quotas and political red tape .So if the powers that be started at the top of the ladder and worked down things may not be as bad as you state .


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    #49
    danbrosnan
    Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭danbrosnan


    madred006 wrote: »
    Well raised many valuable pts.firstly in all walks of life you have those that pay and those that don't for many different reasons that will always be .Numbers of anglers are irrelevant Itffa tafi and other organisations pike anglers salmon and sea trout etc etc all have there own numbers and can provide same to you on the morning if you so wish ,we have a voice but it's been delivered by each federation and there is no coherence in it .That is a major stumbling block .How many salmon and sea trout are caught in nets from legal and illegal methods ???? No one has a clue .I have seen salmon and sea trout leaving currane without gill tags salmon leaving the corrib without tags and I'm sure elsewhere aswell so that's also a problem that needs addressing . I have heard of fishery offices been rang and poaching reported but lads were told we havnt got petrol for the engines or we havnt the man power .
    Finally the cost been roumered is 80-100 euro adult teenagers and oaps reduced rate . Now I for one would hate to see a parent go on holidays with say 2 kids and they ask to fish off a pier for an hour or so been burdened with this nonesense, tons of fish are thrown overboard each year because of quotas and political red tape .So if the powers that be started at the top of the ladder and worked down things may not be as bad as you state .

    I'm sorry for this but I do not agree with any of your points, you cannot come at this debate with a selfish attitude... We are anglers and we need a single entity..

    Cyclists have a single entity, even tho some might be track cyclists and others might be road cyclists...

    Same goes for walks of life, hunters, athletics... Etc...

    The numbers of salmon and sea trout caught in legal nets are published evey year and anyway I don't understand why this questions relates to this thread?

    Obviously no one knows how many fish are killed illegally...

    As regards the fishery board not having enough funds? Hopefully when his license comes in place this will push the government to provide more funding...

    Also yes I would like you to provide me with a researched proven number of anglers in Ireland..


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    #50
    Witcher
    Registered Users Posts: 14,632 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    danbrosnan wrote: »
    I'm sorry for this but I do not agree with any of your points, you cannot come at this debate with a selfish attitude... We are anglers and we need a single entity..

    Same goes for walks of life, hunters, athletics... Etc...

    The shooting community is one of the most divided in Ireland, there is no single entity for all shooters in Ireland, nor is there one for all hunters, all target shooters etc.

    A licence will not breed co-operation in any community. Some shooters like to think 'Sure we're all shooters' but guaranteed one section would throw the other under the bus to save themselves if it came down to it. People will always look out for themselves, even more so when it takes money out of their pocket. Don't think that just because all anglers have an €80 piece of paper in their pocket that they're all friends..the pike guys will still look out for the pike guys, the fly guys for the fly guys etc.


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    #51
    djflawless
    Registered Users Posts: 1,868 ✭✭✭djflawless


    Thank you danbrosnan
    I will openly stand and say I would not have been able to make points like that, merely sharing my opinions and views
    But I'm sharing them as someone who wants to see fishing improved instead of left to decline as it is currently going
    Will we only look for change when there's f#ck all left in our waters??


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    #52
    djflawless
    Registered Users Posts: 1,868 ✭✭✭djflawless


    Blay wrote: »
    The shooting community is one of the most divided in Ireland, there is no single entity for all shooters in Ireland, nor is there one for all hunters, all target shooters etc.

    Not to offend, but I call bull here on this point

    I can guarantee that nearly every shooting man whether he shoots deer or clays, will protect the rights of men who shoot a different sport, simply because...
    We all know we need to protect our sport

    I shoot game,vermin and clays,
    But I'll still disagree with so many restrictions to pistol shooters


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    #53
    Witcher
    Registered Users Posts: 14,632 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    djflawless wrote: »
    Not to offend, but I call bull here on this point

    I can guarantee that nearly every shooting man whether he shoots deer or clays, will protect the rights of men who shoot a different sport, simply because...
    We all know we need to protect our sport

    I shoot game,vermin and clays,
    But I'll still disagree with so many restrictions to pistol shooters

    Do you think all game shooters would stand up for gallery rifle/pistol lads? Or vice versa?

    People will always look out for themselves, the shooting community here is an extreme example of that. If you haven't noticed it up to now you haven't been paying attention.

    You can't even get all game shooters to agree on one organisation, clay shooters to agree on one or target shooters. In one case we had the NARGC and the WDAI tearing the throat out of each other on Facebook only a few months ago.

    How would you get any group to support people they don't even know in a discipline they don't even shoot when they can't agree on how they own discipline should be handled?


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    #54
    djflawless
    Registered Users Posts: 1,868 ✭✭✭djflawless


    Blay wrote: »
    Do you think all game shooters would stand up for gallery rifle/pistol lads? Or vice versa?

    People will always look out for themselves, the shooting community here is an extreme example of that. If you haven't noticed it up to now you haven't been paying attention.

    You can't even get all game shooters to agree on one organisation, clay shooters to agree on one or target shooters.

    How would you get any group to support people they don't even know in a discipline they don't even shoot when they can't agree on how they own discipline should be handled?

    Sorry, it appears you don't pay attention then (forgivable if your not a shooting man)
    But I would bet on it that 1 shooter will support another in a different field.
    Because it essentially will affect us all
    Nearly every shooting man will have friends in a different shooting sport, and also support them
    Plus, most shooters are members of 1 of 3 insurance companies.
    Whether they go through a gun club or range insurance, it leads back to 1 of 3, with money being distributed to all shooting sports


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    #55
    Witcher
    Registered Users Posts: 14,632 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    djflawless wrote: »
    Sorry, it appears you don't pay attention then (forgivable if your not a shooting man)
    But I would bet on it that 1 shooter will support another in a different field.
    Because it essentially will affect us all
    Nearly every shooting man will have friends in a different shooting sport, and also support them
    Plus, most shooters are members of 1 of 3 insurance companies.
    Whether they go through a gun club or range insurance, it leads back to 1 of 3, with money being distributed to all shooting sports

    I am a shooter and we've seen here on Boards just how divided the community can be..NARGC and WDAI at each other's throats, NASRPC proposing new legislation behind the backs of the other groups a few years ago and the ICPSA and CSI warring over who runs the show in clay shooting...definitely a tight knit community.

    Anyway, this isn't the place to carry on this discussion but a angling licence isn't going to make every band together.


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    #56
    djflawless
    Registered Users Posts: 1,868 ✭✭✭djflawless


    Agreed on off topic
    But I just have it in my head that this can work for anglers
    I don't really care if people disagree but its my opinion
    Feel free to agree or disagree but I see that some people are agreeing, and as I wanted, people commenting what they would like to see


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    #57
    danbrosnan
    Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭danbrosnan


    Blay wrote: »
    The shooting community is one of the most divided in Ireland, there is no single entity for all shooters in Ireland, nor is there one for all hunters, all target shooters etc.

    A licence will not breed co-operation in any community. Some shooters like to think 'Sure we're all shooters' but guaranteed one section would throw the other under the bus to save themselves if it came down to it. People will always look out for themselves, even more so when it takes money out of their pocket. Don't think that just because all anglers have an €80 piece of paper in their pocket that they're all friends..the pike guys will still look out for the pike guys, the fly guys for the fly guys etc.

    Everyone needs a license for a gun don't they! Is the NARGC not a entity for hunters in Ireland!?


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    #58
    djflawless
    Registered Users Posts: 1,868 ✭✭✭djflawless


    danbrosnan wrote: »
    Everyone needs a license for a gun don't they! Is the NARGC not a entity for hunters in Ireland!?

    Primary entity but there is a few other branches of insurance companies
    None offer as good qualities as the nargc imo
    If I had my way it would be the only organisation for hunting/shooting


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    #59
    madred006
    Registered Users Posts: 631 ✭✭✭madred006


    danbrosnan wrote: »
    I'm sorry for this but I do not agree with any of your points, you cannot come at this debate with a selfish attitude... We are anglers and we need a single entity..

    Cyclists have a single entity, even tho some might be track cyclists and others might be road cyclists...

    Same goes for walks of life, hunters, athletics... Etc...

    The numbers of salmon and sea trout caught in legal nets are published evey year and anyway I don't understand why this questions relates to this thread?

    Obviously no one knows how many fish are killed illegally...

    As regards the fishery board not having enough funds? Hopefully when his license comes in place this will push the government to provide more funding...

    Also yes I would like you to provide me with a researched proven number of anglers in Ireland..

    Now dan I don't intend or wish to appear selfish ,I'm stating the truth . Legal nets !!!! You refer to, are you telling me they are not across the river day and night on some occasions and catches not recorded .I didn't bring this up I'm answering a comment you referred to.
    Secondly if you think that smaller counties will benifit the same ad larger ones I'm surprised .
    If you need to be a single entity good for you ,that's not going to happen either as I said in previous posts too many lads loose too many perks .
    Lastly if you think a family on holiday that may fish two days of the year should pay the same as a person that fishes 180 days , I think it makes you selfish and rather hypocritical now carry on debating this with people that care .
    It's a dead duck as far as I am concerned and is 5-10 years away at least .Because despite what you may or may not know the Goverment has the numbers and this was virtually introduced untill a few lads down your way met with minister 6-8 months ago,tight lines and learn to relax it's a leisure pursuit .


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    #60
    madred006
    Registered Users Posts: 631 ✭✭✭madred006


    djflawless wrote: »
    Primary entity but there is a few other branches of insurance companies
    None offer as good qualities as the nargc imo
    If I had my way it would be the only organisation for hunting/shooting
    Well lucky you havnt your way then ,we live in a democratic state we all have choices why should we worry what other people join or affiliate to.Countryside alliance do gun insurance and it may have what certain people want or need ,it's nice to have a choice .


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    #61
    madred006
    Registered Users Posts: 631 ✭✭✭madred006


    djflawless wrote: »
    Thank you danbrosnan
    I will openly stand and say I would not have been able to make points like that, merely sharing my opinions and views
    But I'm sharing them as someone who wants to see fishing improved instead of left to decline as it is currently going
    Will we only look for change when there's f#ck all left in our waters??
    Look fishing will improve regardless of licence or not it has no bearing on it .Up and down the country dedicated anglers carry out stream enhancement and maintenance on a voluntary level and licence funding will have no benifit to this none at all .


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