Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread IV

Kirk Van Houten

jm08 wrote:

Donnacha Ryan & Keith Earls both re-signed with IRFU when injured. As far as I remember, Denis Leamy did as well. Leinster looked after Luke Fitzgerald as well even though he is very injury prone. And the Crusaders looked after Tyler Bleyendaal until he was fit enough to travel.

I'm not sure Luke Fitzgerald would describe it as being "looked after".

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

Short of paying out his contract they really, really wouldn't.

Denis Leamy got a new 2 year central contract when he was recovering from a hip operation (jan 2012). He retired 4 months later.

thomond2006

jm08 wrote: »

Denis Leamy got a new 2 year central contract when he was recovering from a hip operation (jan 2012). He retired 4 months later.

So they made a mistake then. What you're suggesting is the IRFU are a charity.

phog

thomond2006 wrote: »

So they made a mistake then. What you're suggesting is the IRFU are a charity.

Didn't they offer an injured Luke Fitz a contract too?

jm08

thomond2006 wrote: »

So they made a mistake then. What you're suggesting is the IRFU are a charity.

No. They had nothing to lose by giving him a contract and a lot to gain reputation wise by looking after players when they are injured (in contrast to Toulon who threatened to release Halfpenny because he was injured on international duty).

thomond2006

phog wrote: »

Didn't they offer an injured Luke Fitz a contract too?

You're going off on a tangent. We're talking about retired players, not injured players.

thomond2006

jm08 wrote: »

No. They had nothing to lose by giving him a contract and a lot to gain reputation wise by looking after players when they are injured (in contrast to Toulon who threatened to release Halfpenny because he was injured on international duty).

Toulon are not a good example of anything. Mourad says anything at anytime. He thrives on bitching.

I doubt that the IRFU would offer a contract to a player who they didn't believe would not be fit. The deal could have been signed well before the announcement as well. We also have no idea if Leamy got paid either. There's too many unknowns in fairness.

phog

thomond2006 wrote: »

You're going off on a tangent. We're talking about retired players, not injured players.

No. The post you quoted mentioned the IRFU offering Leamy who was recovering from an injury a contract.

Certainly not a retired Leamy.

jm08

thomond2006 wrote: »

So they made a mistake then. What you're suggesting is the IRFU are a charity.

That isn't charity. Its good for business as it makes the IRFU a good company to work for.

Take Tyler Bleyendaal, Canterbury looked after him because he got injured when playing for them. (They would have a duty of care). Munster also stood by him and honored the contract (even though they might have got out of it).

thomond2006

jm08 wrote: »

That isn't charity. Its good for business as it makes the IRFU a good company to work for.

Take Tyler Bleyendaal, Canterbury looked after him because he got injured when playing for them. (They would have a duty of care). Munster also stood by him and honored the contract (even though they might have got out of it).

First point - ok fair enough. I don't know enough to argue against.

Bleyendaal - Canterbury and a duty of care has nothing to do with what I was talking about. Munster honoured the contract after Bleyendaal passed a medical. If TB hadn't passed the medical I doubt he would have been paid after Year 1, if he even was being paid in full in Year 1 while unavailable. (Again we're talking about something that neither of us can really back up, I'm basing the above on assumptions except for the medical part which was announced by Munster).

jm08

thomond2006 wrote: »

Toulon are not a good example of anything. Mourad says anything at anytime. He thrives on bitching.

He says it in public, god only knows how some of them are treated. A lot say they stay in Ireland because they will be looked after.

I doubt that the IRFU would offer a contract to a player who they didn't believe would not be fit. The deal could have been signed well before the announcement as well. We also have no idea if Leamy got paid either. There's too many unknowns in fairness.

The IRFU announced that Leamy had got a 2 year contract in Jan (usual time of the year) when he was recovering from a hip operation. They didn't delay the signing of the contract to see if he would recover.

Donnacha Ryan & Keith Earls both signed contracts when they were injured (and have literally been out injured for the bones of 2 years of those contracts).

thomond2006

jm08 wrote: »

The IRFU announced that Leamy had got a 2 year contract in Jan (usual time of the year) when he was recovering from a hip operation. They didn't delay the signing of the contract to see if he would recover.

Except neither of us have any idea of the terms of that contract. Maybe the deal hinged on a full recovery to become live. It's too simplistic to assume that the salary was immediately guaranteed, if that's what you're saying.

jm08

thomond2006 wrote: »

First point - ok fair enough. I don't know enough to argue against.

Bleyendaal - Canterbury and a duty of care has nothing to do with what I was talking about. Munster honoured the contract after Bleyendaal passed a medical. If TB hadn't passed the medical I doubt he would have been paid after Year 1, if he even was being paid in full in Year 1 while unavailable. (Again we're talking about something that neither of us can really back up, I'm basing the above on assumptions except for the medical part which was announced by Munster).

Bleyendaal came over around last Christmas. I doubt very much he would have left Canterbury (who would have a duty of care to get him right) to the other side of the world without being fairly sure that he was going to be able to pay for what could be huge medical bills at least.

CatFromHue

I would have thought any pro player would have insurance taken out, by him or the club as part of the contract, that would cover what would happen if the player gets injured towards the end of his contract and would need rehab after the contract expiry.

The situation with Luke Fitzgerald might muddy the waters a bit as Leinster really wanted to keep him and I think he was pretty keen to stay so when the negotiations with the IRFU broke down they were happy to offer him a contract. They weren't paying out his rehab, they were signing him as a player who just happened to need rehab.

irishbucsfan

CatFromHue wrote: »

I would have thought any pro player would have insurance taken out, by him or the club as part of the contract, that would cover what would happen if the player gets injured towards the end of his contract and would need rehab after the contract expiry.

The situation with Luke Fitzgerald might muddy the waters a bit as Leinster really wanted to keep him and I think he was pretty keen to stay so when the negotiations with the IRFU broke down they were happy to offer him a contract. They weren't paying out his rehab, they were signing him as a player who just happened to need rehab.

Yes they are insured, none of these decisions are taken charitably OR to make the IRFU a good place to work.

Surely everyone remembers the story of Steve Thompson? Thompson was forced to retire because of his neck in 2007, he was paid a substantial sum of money by Northampton's insurance for this. Then the next season he made a comeback for Brive, in order to make that comeback he had to personally repay the insurance payout he'd received from the time he was with Northampton and then ALSO help to pay down a massively increased premium on the new version of the policy with Brive. It was a very impressive testament to his love of the game.

phog

CatFromHue wrote: »

I would have thought any pro player would have insurance taken out, by him or the club as part of the contract, that would cover what would happen if the player gets injured towards the end of his contract and would need rehab after the contract expiry.

The situation with Luke Fitzgerald might muddy the waters a bit as Leinster really wanted to keep him and I think he was pretty keen to stay so when the negotiations with the IRFU broke down they were happy to offer him a contract. They weren't paying out his rehab, they were signing him as a player who just happened to need rehab.

And is any of that different to offering a player who happened to get injured while on a one year contract or offering an injured Denis Leamy a contract.

phog

Murray Kinsella just tweeted this memory from 2000

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZjMCkiA_iM

phog

While I'm at it, here's John Hayes try from the same game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFJX3JbO3vU

athtrasna

phog wrote: »

While I'm at it, here's John Hayes try from the same game.

I can think of at least one regular whose day you've just made by posting that

phog

Reminder that the MRSC AGM is on tonight in Charleville at 19:45

athtrasna

phog wrote: »

Reminder that the MRSC AGM is on tonight in Charleville at 19:45

No chance of me making that. Leinster hold theirs on a Saturday morning before a game. How sensible is that.

Podge_irl

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ah they do have certain responsibilities, but they're well insured for all that stuff.

Sure, they have responsibilities towards his care, but insurance will cover all of that.

They have precisely zero responsibility to keep him contracted or any such guff. If he got injured while on a year long contract and looked to be facing a long rehab/questionable future I imagine he would be re-signed with a tasty discount for the IRFU.

Hypotheticals aside, they're going to have a very hard to keeping him.

phog

athtrasna wrote: »

No chance of me making that. Leinster hold theirs on a Saturday morning before a game. How sensible is that.

A weekend AGM was tried before and got fewer attendees then the mid week one. I suppose they could try another one and see how that goes.

The EGM which was also a midweek meeting attracted a high number of attendees, higher than I've seen some AGMs.

thomond2006

Munster:David Johnston; Shane Monahan, Cian Bohane, Matt D'Arcy, Gerhard van den Heever; Ian Keatley, Duncan Williams;
James Cronin, Mike Sherry, Stephen Archer; Sean McCarthy, Dave Foley; Dave O'Callaghan, Jack O'Donoghue, CJ Stander Capt.

Replacements from: Kevin O'Byrne, John Ryan, BJ Botha, Donncha O'Callaghan, Shane Buckley, Cathal Sheridan, Bill Johnston, Francis Saili, Niall Scannell, John Madigan, Jordan Coghlan, Stephen Fitzgerald.

Mike Sherry back to start. First appearance since 29th Nov 2013. Francis Saili on the bench.

On the injury front Denis Hurley is out for 8-10 weeks. Suddenly the Matt D'Arcy and Shane Monahan signings were vital as well as the early arrival of Saili.

The starting pack will be very close to what our RWC dirttracker pack should be.

phog

Great to see Sherry back, if he holds up he'll be like a new signing for us this year. Hope Dave O'C has a stormer, he must be chomping on the bit too.

Delighted I'm heading into this game now, gonna see Saili make his debut for us too.

Tomtom364

CJ captain ahead of Jack O'D?
lets hope leadership suits him, think he captained for junior boks before.

awec

Tomtom364 wrote: »

CJ captain ahead of Jack O'D?
lets hope leadership suits him, think he captained for junior boks before.

O'Donoghue has like 10 Munster caps or something, hardly on the radar for captaincy even for a friendly game.

The Lost Sheep

Tomtom364 wrote: »

CJ captain ahead of Jack O'D?
lets hope leadership suits him, think he captained for junior boks before.

Jack is a 21 year old with less than 10 appearances for senior Munster side. He is going to be a future Munster senior captain but I don't see anything wrong with CJ as captain. JOD is likely to be Munster A captain again even if he will be playing more with the main side in pro12

Hype710

What's the story with ROM and Conway?

thomond2006

Hype710 wrote: »

What's the story with ROM and Conway?

ROM has/had the same groin problem that Keatley and Hanrahan had. No idea about Conway.