Samoa V New Zealand, Wed 8/7 SS1 silly am

The Lost Sheep

The New Zealand Herald is saying Steve Hansen’s side will head to Apia for a Test match in 2015 after an agreement was reached by the two countries’ unions. The clash will most likely take place in July
http://thescore.thejournal.ie/new-zealand-samoa-test-apia-1554986-Jul2014/

Fantastic to see this but should have been done years ago.

Morf

It would make more money for Samoa in Auckland but the gesture is more symbolic and good PR for NZ.

Fair play to them anyway.

CatFromHue

Can't see the French or English players being released if it's outside the IRB window, which I'm guessing it will be.

umop.episdn

About time, shameful that they've refused to play them until now. It should be a regular occurrence so the smaller nations can garner some much needed income, pride & not have to feel like second class rugby citizens

Buer

In fairness, NZ have shown more inclination to play the smaller nations than some others. They went and played Japan over there last year making them the only Tri Nations side to play a test away from home against a second tier nation in recent years. They hosted Fiji in the build up to the RWC also.

Australia haven't played a second tier nation since hosting Samoa in the build up to the RWC and South Africa had Samoa over last summer for a test there which was their only game against a lower tier nation in recent times. Samoa are the clear strongest Pacific Island nation in recent years also and the one least in need of a boost (although obviously still good to see) which makes it much less of a gesture from SA and Australia.

irishbucsfan

I think there's probably a lot of financial incentive for Samoa to play games in NZ, I can't imagine their union is rolling in cash.

19543261

Morf wrote: »

It would make more money for Samoa in Auckland but the gesture is more symbolic and good PR for NZ.

Fair play to them anyway.

Why fair play to them?

Buer

Fair play to them because it's not a money spinner for them at all, nor will it benefit their own team. It will, however, generate massive coverage and excitement in Samoa.

The other three countries that have won the RWC have never played in Samoa either. It's a big development.

Morf

The host nation cover the expenses of the touring nation usually.

I'm not sure Samoan Union could cover that and make a healthy profit on the gate/ancillary events alone.

That and NZ tend to demand a fee for a lot of their AI tests (for example) anyway.

The Lost Sheep

Morf wrote: »

It would make more money for Samoa in Auckland but the gesture is more symbolic and good PR for NZ.

Fair play to them anyway.

Wouldn't say fair play to NZ considering the small number of times they have actually played NZ.

Buer wrote: »

In fairness, NZ have shown more inclination to play the smaller nations than some others. They went and played Japan over there last year making them the only Tri Nations side to play a test away from home against a second tier nation in recent years. They hosted Fiji in the build up to the RWC also.

Australia haven't played a second tier nation since hosting Samoa in the build up to the RWC and South Africa had Samoa over last summer for a test there which was their only game against a lower tier nation in recent times. Samoa are the clear strongest Pacific Island nation in recent years also and the one least in need of a boost (although obviously still good to see) which makes it much less of a gesture from SA and Australia.

They've shown more inclination to play Japan where they could get big €€€s but its a disgrace they've never travelled to any of the islands considering the close ties between the islands and NZ.

Buer wrote: »

Fair play to them because it's not a money spinner for them at all, nor will it benefit their own team. It will, however, generate massive coverage and excitement in Samoa.

The other three countries that have won the RWC have never played in Samoa either. It's a big development.

Wouldn't say fair play to them as they should have done this years ago. That NZ have only played Samoa 6 times is a joke.

Buer

You're holding NZ to a set of standards that you're not holding others to. Australia have a massive Asian population including a strong islander element but have done little in recent years.

A RWC winning side visiting Samoa is great. NZ haven't done as much as they should historically to assist with weaker nations but are rectifying that now. They played Japan last year and are now booked to play in both Samoa and the USA. They've also sent the Junior All Blacks and Maori teams to second tier nations in recent years.

This should be applauded not seen as an opportunity to kick them especially when bugger all else is being done by some of the other top nations.

Tox56

Buer wrote: »

You're holding NZ to a set of standards that you're not holding others to. Australia have a massive Asian population including a strong islander element but have done little in recent years.

Or they're held to the same standards and two wrongs don't make a right. From the other side of the world England have played Samoa as many times since 2000 as New Zealand and Australia combined, which is a bit ridiculous, and they play them again this autumn

Buer

Tox56 wrote: »

Or they're held to the same standards and two wrongs don't make a right. From the other side of the world England have played Samoa as many times since 2000 as New Zealand and Australia combined, which is a bit ridiculous, and they play them again this autumn

To be honest, I have never heard the other tri nations sides copping the flak that NZ get regarding playing second tier nations. If this was Australia or South Africa, I think we all know there would not be the same reaction.

Morf

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Wouldn't say fair play to NZ considering the small number of times they have actually played NZ.

NZ are probably covering their own touring costs which is unusual in rugby which effectively makes this a charity gesture to Samoan Rugby rather than their usual modus operandi i.e. charging the RFU/WRU a million quid (rumoured) for a test.

Why not focus on the fact it's a positive thing now rather than harking back to the past!

CatFromHue

There's no real seasonal structure for SANZAR teams to play away to other Southern Hemisphere non SANZAR teams.

The Europeans come down to 1 or 2 SANZAR teams in June and they go up in November to play a few European teams and that's the structure .

This game is being pencilled in at a weird time so I do wonder how successful it'll be but I can't think of any other time that NZ could play a game in Samoa.

CatFromHue

Morf wrote: »

NZ are probably covering their own touring costs which is unusual in rugby which effectively makes this a charity gesture to Samoan Rugby rather than their usual modus operandi i.e. charging the RFU/WRU a million quid (rumoured) for a test.

Why not focus on the fact it's a positive thing now rather than harking back to the past!

Is that fee for all games? I thought I read it was just for the Welsh as the game was outside the IRB window.

The Lost Sheep

Morf wrote: »

NZ are probably covering their own touring costs which is unusual in rugby which effectively makes this a charity gesture to Samoan Rugby rather than their usual modus operandi i.e. charging the RFU/WRU a million quid (rumoured) for a test.

Why not focus on the fact it's a positive thing now rather than harking back to the past!

Yes its good that New Zealand are going to Samoa but you cant step back from discussing how its going to be their first ever test in the islands considering the shared history of the islands and NZ in all aspects. They should have done this years ago!

CatFromHue wrote: »

Is that fee for all games? I thought I read it was just for the Welsh as the game was outside the IRB window.

Dont think it is for all games but didn't Munster have to pay a fee for the 08 game but it was picked up by Adidas who sponsored both at the time?

Swiwi.

It's clear to me that the negative press has taken it's toll, and the NZRFU has caved in. All sorts of politicians and celebrities back home have had their 2c to say on this matter.

I imagine the NZRFU will lose money on this game, but as a token of appreciation for the Samoan contribution to NZ rugby (even if most of that is from Samoans born in NZ) it's probably overdue.

They should play for the the Michael Jones cup or similar, among a host of champion NZ Samoans, Jones still stands head and shoulders above the rest.

Not too much moral high ground though please lads, when was the last time the major 6N sides put out full strength teams in Tbilisi or Bucharest?

thomond2006

It's unfortunate the Pacific Islands can't compete financially with other unions. A Pacific Island Super XV team would be great.

Yeah_Right

Its a great PR exercise. The main reason the ABs would play any of the teams from the Islands in NZ was because the their unions wanted it that way. I'm pretty sure that Tonga, Fiji and Samoa would get the gate from games against the ABs in NZ and that was a lot more revenue than if they hosted the ABs.

I think NZ has a similar arrangement when they tour in the autumn. The NZRU gets a percentage of the gate. Could be wrong though.

I think the timing is due to the RWC. There are no June tours next year and the Rugby Championship is shortened. There will be no break in the Super XV either. So the Samoa game will be the ABs warm up for the RC.

bilston

I wouldn't be too critical of NZ for not having been there before. How many times in the last 15 years has a senior Ireland team played in Romania or Georgia? Think we played a WC qualifier in Russia prior to 2003 but that wasn't through choice. All major nations should do more where possible but then again it is a professional sport and money talks.

Swiwi.

bilston wrote: »

I wouldn't be too critical of NZ for not having been there before. How many times in the last 15 years has a senior Ireland team played in Romania or Georgia? Think we played a WC qualifier in Russia prior to 2003 but that wasn't through choice. All major nations should do more where possible but then again it is a professional sport and money talks.

This is the thing - NZ, like many countries, struggles to keep its players in NZ. Those one-off games v Japan and USA bring in a lot of much needed revenue, whereas a game in Apia won't do that.

I do think it's reasonable for NZ to play a game in the Pacific, and Samoa has definitely been the biggest contributor of the 3 main Pacific Islands to NZ rugby, but I don't see it becoming a regular fixture.

NZ does actually do quite a lot for the Pacific teams, including allowing non-AB eligible players to ply their trade in the ITM and SXV competitions without dispensation required.

If money wasn't the issue (which it most definitely is), I could have seen the SXV become an Australasian competition with Pacific teams, but SANZAR relies on SA broadcasting revenue so that was never going to happen.

The Lost Sheep

Swiwi. wrote: »

It's clear to me that the negative press has taken it's toll, and the NZRFU has caved in. All sorts of politicians and celebrities back home have had their 2c to say on this matter.

I imagine the NZRFU will lose money on this game, but as a token of appreciation for the Samoan contribution to NZ rugby (even if most of that is from Samoans born in NZ) it's probably overdue.

They should play for the the Michael Jones cup or similar, among a host of champion NZ Samoans, Jones still stands head and shoulders above the rest.

Not too much moral high ground though please lads, when was the last time the major 6N sides put out full strength teams in Tbilisi or Bucharest?

Of course all top tier nations should be doing more and 6N sides should be going to Tbilisi etc on a regular enough basis but NZ never to have played a full test in one of the islands when rugby is so big in the islands and the close ties between the island nations and NZ.

bilston wrote: »

I wouldn't be too critical of NZ for not having been there before. How many times in the last 15 years has a senior Ireland team played in Romania or Georgia? Think we played a WC qualifier in Russia prior to 2003 but that wasn't through choice. All major nations should do more where possible but then again it is a professional sport and money talks.

Yes we haven't done enough but as above that a full ABs side has never played in Samoa is a joke

Swiwi. wrote: »

This is the thing - NZ, like many countries, struggles to keep its players in NZ. Those one-off games v Japan and USA bring in a lot of much needed revenue, whereas a game in Apia won't do that.

I do think it's reasonable for NZ to play a game in the Pacific, and Samoa has definitely been the biggest contributor of the 3 main Pacific Islands to NZ rugby, but I don't see it becoming a regular fixture.

NZ does actually do quite a lot for the Pacific teams, including allowing non-AB eligible players to ply their trade in the ITM and SXV competitions without dispensation required.

If money wasn't the issue (which it most definitely is), I could have seen the SXV become an Australasian competition with Pacific teams, but SANZAR relies on SA broadcasting revenue so that was never going to happen.

By regular how often would you like to see fixtures? Once against each country every few years in Fiji/Tonga/Samoa?

Swiwi.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

By regular how often would you like to see fixtures? Once against each country every few years in Fiji/Tonga/Samoa?

Personally, I'd rather the Junior ABs make a yearly trip to the Islands, but the Junior ABs last played in 2009 I think.

Maybe the 1st XV in a RWC year as a warm-up is a good idea. At present, there is no way any NZ teams would go to Fiji due to the political situation, I think the NZ government has a sports embargo in place from memory.

But I don't see NZ saying no to June Tours from the 6N countries in favour of touring the Islands.

Unless Samoa has a full strength side (and the 2 countries are apparently working behind the scenes to make sure the French & English clubs release their players), then it could be a bit one-sided.

The Lost Sheep

This game will be played in around 2 weeks. Anyone know if its on tv up here anywhere?
Both squads named. Should be super game

total former

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

This game will be played in around 2 weeks. Anyone know if its on tv up here anywhere?

Sky might have it, nothing on their website yet, but it's at 3pm local time, which is 3am Irish time, so that's not ideal for us.

Tim Robbins

When are Ireland going to play Portugal in Portugal?

errlloyd

Tim Robbins wrote: »

When are Ireland going to play Portugal in Portugal?

I take your point, but Samoa are a lot better than Portugal, and rugby is a much more important game in Samoa. The equivalent would be playing more matches in Romania and Georgia.

The Lost Sheep

Tim Robbins wrote: »

When are Ireland going to play Portugal in Portugal?

I see your point but New Zealand not playing in their neighbours, who are rugby mad, where rugby is the national sport is very different to Ireland not having played a full senior international test in Portugal etc

Tim Robbins

errlloyd wrote: »

I take your point, but Samoa are a lot better than Portugal, and rugby is a much more important game in Samoa. The equivalent would be playing more matches in Romania and Georgia.

Yes it would be equivalent if we were robbing lots of Romanian and Georgian players. I think those lads selling the Big Issue could be good at tag :-)

The Lost Sheep

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Yes it would be equivalent if we were robbing lots of Romanian and Georgian players. I think those lads selling the Big Issue could be good at tag :-)

It wouldn't be the equivalent of that at all Tim....
New Zealand don't "rob" lots of Samoan, Fijian players....