Docked or not??

ESB Spaniel

TriggerPL wrote: »

Mate personally I think ur mad, u will find them impossible to sell !

If the parents are good then he should have no issue what's so ever about selling them. Tail docked or not

djflawless

ESB Spaniel wrote: »

If the parents are good then he should have no issue what's so ever about selling them. Tail docked or not

I get where trigger is coming from.I personally would not buy a springer with a full tail.
Terrible when they get bloody and sore but even worse when the poor decker gets an infection

sheebadog

The law is an Ass.

ESB Spaniel

djflawless wrote: »

I get where trigger is coming from.I personally would not buy a springer with a full tail.
Terrible when they get bloody and sore but even worse when the poor decker gets an infection

Well lads on hunting ability it's not going to make any bit of difference, just you will occasionally have to disenfect and clean them, I understand where Trigger is coming from as well but to state he won't be able to sell them is mad. I personally am for docking but if I saw the parents and they were hard going it wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

donacarney

ESB Spaniel wrote: »

Was at the NARGC meeting with Des last month and he said that they are fighting the case over the tails and that they will win, but at the moment you can not register pups that have tails docked and it is illegal to dock them at the moment.

If they are fighting this law, could you dock the tails of pups now but not register them till after they win this battle?

zeevalentino

maggiepip wrote: »

What part of illegal dont you understand? Its a new law and any layperson who docks is open to prosecution. Its breaking the law now!!!!!

My apologies.
I was unaware an opinion could break the law.

ESB Spaniel

donacarney wrote: »

If they are fighting this law, could you dock the tails of pups now but not register them till after they win this battle?

Well why not register them and get new owners to dock them altogether. Des never gave a time frame on when the case will be over but is very confident.

snipe49

maggiepip wrote: »

What part of illegal dont you understand? Its a new law and any layperson who docks is open to prosecution. Its breaking the law now!!!!!

The one thing we both have in common is our love for dog's.And i would never do anything to my dogs that would cause them distress. When it comes to tail docking we differ. so let's agree to differ and leave it at that.

maggiepip

snipe49 wrote: »

The one thing we both have in common is our love for dog's.And i would never do anything to my dogs that would cause them distress. When it comes to tail docking we differ. so let's agree to differ and leave it at that.

I was only stating the law. I actually have a rescue collie with a docked tail, done according to my vet by an amateur. My dog suffers back pain and my vets opinion is the docked tail contributes. You will often see her swing to bite at the stump as if shes being stung, which is indicitive of nerve pain. Thankfully medication helps her greatly but she'll be on it for life. Something else Ive noticed is when shes zooming round, her control at sudden turns can be a bit crap, so I feel having her little tail back would help balance.

ESB Spaniel

maggiepip wrote: »

I was only stating the law. I actually have a rescue collie with a docked tail, done according to my vet by an amateur. My dog suffers back pain and my vets opinion is the docked tail contributes. You will often see her swing to bite at the stump as if shes being stung, which is indicitive of nerve pain. Thankfully medication helps her greatly but she'll be on it for life. Something else Ive noticed is when shes zooming round, her control at sudden turns can be a bit crap, so I feel having her little tail back would help balance.

You have to understand where it is important to dock a hunting dogs tail. It saves them in the long run I think from pain. I have seen a lot of non docked tailed dogs cut open over it and have to go to vets and be on medication. My bitch oddie her tail is docked and never once was she at the vet over her tail etc.... So yes it's illegal at the minute but probably won't be for long. But surely you gotta see both sides to why it's been done.

maggiepip

ESB Spaniel wrote: »

You have to understand where it is important to dock a hunting dogs tail. It saves them in the long run I think from pain. I have seen a lot of non docked tailed dogs cut open over it and have to go to vets and be on medication. My bitch oddie her tail is docked and never once was she at the vet over her tail etc.... So yes it's illegal at the minute but probably won't be for long. But surely you gotta see both sides to why it's been done.

I cannot agree. I don't want to get into an argument with you at all but there have been studies done that do not support what you're saying. The tail of a dog is an extension of his back. Apart from the immediate pain of the actual physical act of removing the tail, there are long term chronic pain issues suffered as a result of docking. One problem is Neuromas (nerve endings which continue to grow despite the tail being removed, and form bundled masses) causing long term pain. Numerous other problems are summarized pretty well in this link:
http://www.onekind.org/uploads/publications/tail-docking-dogs.pdf

djflawless

maggiepip wrote: »

I cannot agree. I don't want to get into an argument with you at all but there have been studies done that do not support what you're saying. The tail of a dog is an extension of his back. Apart from the immediate pain of the actual physical act of removing the tail, there are long term chronic pain issues suffered as a result of docking. One problem is Neuromas (nerve endings which continue to grow despite the tail being removed, and form bundled masses) causing long term pain. Numerous other problems are summarized pretty well in this link:
http://www.onekind.org/uploads/publications/tail-docking-dogs.pdf

surely even the simplest forms of evolution/adaption can cover this subject??
if you were born with half an arm would you survive without it again you were 10?

TriggerPL

maggiepip wrote: »

I cannot agree. I don't want to get into an argument with you at all but there have been studies done that do not support what you're saying. The tail of a dog is an extension of his back. Apart from the immediate pain of the actual physical act of removing the tail, there are long term chronic pain issues suffered as a result of docking. One problem is Neuromas (nerve endings which continue to grow despite the tail being removed, and form bundled masses) causing long term pain. Numerous other problems are summarized pretty well in this link:
http://www.onekind.org/uploads/publications/tail-docking-dogs.pdf

They have been docking tails on spaniels for years , and there is more than enough evidence to show that long tailed spaniels are more open to tail related injuries .

At ess spaniel , of course someone is going to buy them , but it will restrict the market , and also the price and I for one would never buy one with a long tail .

maggiepip

Im changing the subject a bit here, but out of curiosity would anyone know why someone would dock a Border Collies tail? As I said my dogs tail is docked and I recently saw "Bobtail" Border Collies for sale and I assume they weren't born that way? Do some people do this? Just curious thanks.

ESB Spaniel

So trigger if I had a bitch that would run cover all day long, retrieve outta hell, soft mouth, never left a bird behind her, on the whistle and could hunt hard all week long, and had a dog doing the same. And you knew the parents! Your telling me you would not take any of the pups over a long tail? Haha ;-)

garyc007

270WIN wrote: »

Sure a lot of springers/cocker pups are born now with three quarter length tails! I had a litter of springers last year and lo and behold they were all born with short tails!!
[/QUOTE
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Same happend me!!

garyc007

maggiepip wrote: »

Im changing the subject a bit here, but out of curiosity would anyone know why someone would dock a Border Collies tail? As I said my dogs tail is docked and I recently saw "Bobtail" Border Collies for sale and I assume they weren't born that way? Do some people do this? Just curious thanks.

Probably some idiot thinking about trying to sell them as springers or something.If the laws were changed in order to wipe out puppy farms and cruel old f**k**s that shouldnt own a dog it would be more in line

snipe49

maggiepip wrote: »

Im changing the subject a bit here, but out of curiosity would anyone know why someone would dock a Border Collies tail? As I said my dogs tail is docked and I recently saw "Bobtail" Border Collies for sale and I assume they weren't born that way? Do some people do this? Just curious thanks.

Is she full collie or do u think she may have springer spaniel in her. ?

maggiepip

snipe49 wrote: »

Is she full collie or do u think she may have springer spaniel in her. ?

To me shes a full border collie but doesn't have much white. Shes the white snout, chest and paws and a bit of white on her stump, she may have a tiny mix of something but definitely looks nothing like having any spaniel in her.

TriggerPL

ESB Spaniel wrote: »

So trigger if I had a bitch that would run cover all day long, retrieve outta hell, soft mouth, never left a bird behind her, on the whistle and could hunt hard all week long, and had a dog doing the same. And you knew the parents! Your telling me you would not take any of the pups over a long tail? Haha ;-)

Haha ! Course not, but if I knew you and ur dogs that well I'd be saying " hey ya bollox ya ! dock the tails on them pups for god sake " lol.

Been honest if it comes to the stage of not been able to dock tails il get out of spaniels . I know terrible to say but it's how much I hate the sight of long tails on them .

Seen a Doberman with a tail only at Xmas and he was the most horrible looking thing ever .

And I don't think u would have a litter that wasn't docked .

Hey where your mate Charlie gone ain't seen him in a while ?

ESB Spaniel

TriggerPL wrote: »

Haha ! Course not, but if I knew you and ur dogs that well I'd be saying " hey ya bollox ya ! dock the tails on them pups for god sake " lol.

Been honest if it comes to the stage of not been able to dock tails il get out of spaniels . I know terrible to say but it's how much I hate the sight of long tails on them .

Seen a Doberman with a tail only at Xmas and he was the most horrible looking thing ever .

And I don't think u would have a litter that wasn't docked .

Hey where your mate Charlie gone ain't seen him in a while ?

A well I rest my case there's no Saving you anyway you stubborn ****er. He lost all interest on boards altogether. Still looks for your posts ahahaha, a no just gone from it. A lot of work been done in the line of birds and ducks even this year so we haven't time. We had a great day on the Pidgeons the other day.

TriggerPL

Haha gud to hear , yep I fairly stand my ground haha ! Finally got a mating with my lad and gary007 bitch results look really promising lad .

ESB Spaniel

nice looking pups alright. Tails long though.....haha. A no as I said before it would not bother me in the slightest. Its all about good dogs for me not a money making exercise.

TriggerPL

ESB Spaniel wrote: »

nice looking pups alright. Tails long though.....haha. A no as I said before it would not bother me in the slightest. Its all about good dogs for me not a money making exercise.

Not a money making thing for me either , some of the lads ere will confirm that , I've been approached to used him for stud just recently but I'd have to see the bitch in action first .

Still think docked tail is the way to go . And it's antis that have this **** going on , there slowly picking at each little thing till they will have everything we know and love gone

This is the way I feel

ESB Spaniel

oh I didn't mean thats what you bread them for boss. Just telling you why I would breed pups....i'd keep them all only for herself haha. They are fine looking pups and would defo look at the parents if I wasn't planning on putting my bitch into pup when she comes in at xmas.

TriggerPL

ESB Spaniel wrote: »

oh I didn't mean thats what you bread them for boss. Just telling you why I would breed pups....i'd keep them all only for herself haha. They are fine looking pups and would defo look at the parents if I wasn't planning on putting my bitch into pup when she comes in at xmas.

Of course mate , we were alway on the same track tho talking about breeding for the better and to get gud working dogs .

nuckeythompson

The VET can dock pups under 8 days old for hunting dogs. However their governing body ADVISES the not to do it. They are waiting on legislation to be passed.
I can assure you that your vet can legelly dock the tail. I spoke with a vet about this only a few days ago

garyc007

ESB Spaniel wrote: »

nice looking pups alright. Tails long though.....haha. A no as I said before it would not bother me in the slightest. Its all about good dogs for me not a money making exercise.

No long tails on them pups lad! Not a money making thing at all,the lads who do it for the money are usually the ones who ruin the dog or even breed

ESB Spaniel

garyc007 wrote: »

No long tails on them pups lad! Not a money making thing at all,the lads who do it for the money are usually the ones who ruin the dog or even breed

That's the job I partly guessed it as well when things went quiet haha. As I said it wouldn't bother me when the parents had brains and were hardy. Best of luck with them look like crackers.

WalkingDude

nuckeythompson wrote: »

The VET can dock pups under 8 days old for hunting dogs. However their governing body ADVISES the not to do it. They are waiting on legislation to be passed.
I can assure you that your vet can legelly dock the tail. I spoke with a vet about this only a few days ago

Quote from Veterinary Ireland position paper below. Your vet might want to check with his representative organisation before he gets himself into trouble.

In a recent article in the Irish Veterinary Journal, Veterinary Ireland informed its members that any request to dock puppies’ tails should be refused. It is the sincere hope of Veterinary Ireland that no member of the profession would perform this act.
Furthermore and as indicated in this article the Veterinary Council of Ireland has specifically confirmed that any act of tail docking (except for therapeutic reason) performed by a registered Veterinary Practitioner would be deemed as unethical. In particular it was confirmed that tail docking for so-called ‘prophylactic’ reasons is considered unethical.
Therefore should a Veterinary Practitioner perform such an act they would be in breach
of the Guide to Professional Behaviour and would thus be open to disciplinary action by
the Council.
Veterinary students in Ireland are no longer taught how to dock tails.

Preventative/prophylactic docking: certain working breeds are docked as a precautionary measure based on the premise that the tail may suffer damage in later life when the dog is working.