Docked or not??

Jimy1971

Quick question for the Springer men on here. Which do you prefer, tail docked or not ? Reason I'm asking is my bitch is due tomorrow and can't decide myself. She has only a few inches docked off the end of her tail but some lads don't like that and prefer short tails. Will be selling some of the pups so want to know what the majority prefer.

Thanks for looking.

.17hmr

As a person who has hunted with springers with docked and non docked tails i personaly wouldnt buy a dog with a full tail ever again .i am sure this will cause some conflick with some but i would rather have a fit and healthy docked tail than bloody and sore .

but thats just me.

Kiltris

Docked! I dock all my pups, as controversial as that may be, I think its more practical. If their from hunting stock then 99% of potential buyers will prefer a docked tail.

As a general rule of thumb I would leave a tail the width of two fingers, docking at two days old, it roughly leaves a tail 5-6" long when fully grown.

Jimbob79

Docked. And docked short. One of my lad is docked. But because the breeder thought trailing men like to see a bit of white he didn't dock enough. Dogs tail does get sore and bleeds. This often happens in the run from the way he sits & wags his tail. Neverind when he's hunting. The other springer I have is docked to 2-3 inches. Haven't had any problems with get.

So defenitely Docked.

TriggerPL

Docked and as a rule of thumb just to be clear the general practice is to dock the tail in line with the hock or knee joint on back leg .

Kiltris

I suppose it all comes down to personal preference really, but at the end of the day I don't think anyone can argue with the fact that long tails will eventually lead to more distress for a hunting dog than the initial docking itself.

Mr_Red

Who does the docking?

Capercaille

Mr_Red wrote: »

Who does the docking?

Illegal now for vets, so owner I presume (Illegal for owner as well though).

TriggerPL

Capercaille wrote: »

Illegal now for vets, so owner I presume (Illegal for owner as well though).

No it not !!

Jimy1971

Just another question around the legal side of things. When I'm registering the litter ( first I have bred) will I be asked if they are docked or not?

Capercaille

TriggerPL wrote: »

No it not !!

New legislation by Minister Coveney makes it illegal for Vets to dock tails, unless for medical resions (ie fractured tail etc). Also illegal for lay-person to dock tail. Ask your vet. Working dogs IMO should be exempt though.

deeksofdoom

TriggerPL wrote: »

Docked and as a rule of thumb just to be clear the general practice is to dock the tail in line with the hock or knee joint on back leg .

I'ld go with this, this is how I docked mine.

TriggerPL

Capercaille wrote: »

New legislation by Minister Coveney makes it illegal for Vets to dock tails, unless for medical resions (ie fractured tail etc). Also illegal for lay-person to dock tail. Ask your vet. Working dogs IMO should be exempt though.

Mayb u should read it again cause the new regulations have a section it it that allows for hunting breeds .

endacl

Not docked. Why? Because dogs have tails.

TriggerPL

endacl wrote: »

Not docked. Why? Because dogs have tails.

Do u hunt spaniels ??

endacl

TriggerPL wrote: »

Do u hunt spaniels ??

No. Uncle used to. I'm not an anti, by the way. I just don't get the advantage. My uncle never did either.

TriggerPL

Well he must not of done much ! It's widely documented that the undock spaniel is far more open to cutting/wounding of a tail when left undocked ! In spaniels this is not done for looks but for a reason .

Prolong the spaniels hunting life , and reduce the risk of infection due to a cut in the tail !

Numerous lads ere have posted pic of tails damage from heavy cover !

TriggerPL

4. (1) For the purposes of section 16 of the Act, a veterinary practitioner or a veterinary nurse (within the meaning of the Veterinary Practice Act 2005) may remove the tail or part of the tail or the dew claws of a pointer, spaniel or terrier in respect of which that part of a declaration that is to be completed by the owner or person having possession or control of the dog has been completed by the owner or person having possession or control of the dog, if—

Jimy1971

Trigger, do I inform the IKC if I dock my springer pups when I register them ? Sorry for the stupid question but as I've said it's the first time I've bred pups.

TriggerPL

Mate that I'm not sure of ! But I'm trying to find out should have an ans shortly

donacarney

I like docked tails, anyone know if a tail is docked short can u still trial the dog or does it have to be 3/4 ?

TriggerPL

Yea you can still trail the dog , but why would u dock the tail short it looks terrible ?

donacarney

TriggerPL wrote: »

Yea you can still trail the dog , but why would u dock the tail short it looks terrible ?

Ah yeah the stumpy ones do look terrible, but a good 5" ones are nice

snipe49

Jimy1971 wrote: »

Quick question for the Springer men on here. Which do you prefer, tail docked or not ? Reason I'm asking is my bitch is due tomorrow and can't decide myself. She has only a few inches docked off the end of her tail but some lads don't like that and prefer short tails. Will be selling some of the pups so want to know what the majority prefer.

Thanks for looking.

On this i would say nothing lads. You dont know who might be watching.;)

TriggerPL

donacarney wrote: »

Ah yeah the stumpy ones do look terrible, but a good 5" ones are nice

The general rule is in line with the knee joint ! So normally a lot longer than 5 inches in an adult dog .

donacarney

TriggerPL wrote: »

The general rule is in line with the knee joint ! So normally a lot longer than 5 inches in an adult dog .

So would a pup docked in line with the knee joint be classed as a 3/4 length?

TriggerPL

It's depends on the size of the dog , that's why they go with the knee joint , and ur docking these tails at 2-3 days old so there not even 5 inches so no way of saying that when there older that the tail will be a certain lengh !

donacarney

Jimy1971 wrote: »

Quick question for the Springer men on here. Which do you prefer, tail docked or not ? Reason I'm asking is my bitch is due tomorrow and can't decide myself. She has only a few inches docked off the end of her tail but some lads don't like that and prefer short tails. Will be selling some of the pups so want to know what the majority prefer.

Thanks for looking.

Just wondering what did u end up doing with the pups tails ?

Jimy1971

donacarney wrote: »

Just wondering what did u end up doing with the pups tails ?

They were only born last night lad. Was asking for when I'm selling them. Probably go with docked.

donacarney

Jimy1971 wrote: »

They were only born last night lad. Was asking for when I'm selling them. Probably go with docked.

Ah grand nice one.Will u dock to the knee joint or go shorter.

maggiepip

Jimy1971 wrote: »

They were only born last night lad. Was asking for when I'm selling them. Probably go with docked.

You'll need to get a vet to do that then or you're breaking the law. I would also imagine you may need some paperwork from the vet to prove it was a legal docking.

Invincible

Jimy1971 wrote: »

They were only born last night lad. Was asking for when I'm selling them. Probably go with docked.

What part of the country are you in?

Capercaille

maggiepip wrote: »

You'll need to get a vet to do that then or you're breaking the law. I would also imagine you may need some paperwork from the vet to prove it was a legal docking.

Veterinary council have instructed all vets not to dock tails at present (except in cases with trauma).

maggiepip

Capercaille wrote: »

Veterinary council have instructed all vets not to dock tails at present (except in cases with trauma).

If thats the case he wont be able to dock his pups tails, because a layperson certainly isnt allowed. I thought vets now had to dock working dogs tails in order to prevent the likes of idiots making a complete mess of it?

Jimy1971

Invincible wrote: »

What part of the country are you in?

Offaly

snipe49

Jimy1971 wrote: »

Offaly

Are u going to regester the pups if yes then it going to be a tough one, If your not then here is what i do, I get a jar of honey and a cotton bud i dip the bud in the honey then dab a bit on the tail of the pup when it's 4 days old i do this for 5 days the bitch lickes the honey and on the fifth day the tail falls off . Great trick works all the time.

maggiepip

snipe49 wrote: »

Are u going to regester the pups if yes then it going to be a tough one, If your not then here is what i do, I get a jar of honey and a cotton bud i dip the bud in the honey then dab a bit on the tail of the pup when it's 4 days old i do this for 5 days the bitch lickes the honey and on the fifth day the tail falls off . Great trick works all the time.

I hope someone reports you
PS I am aware that thats probably not the whole truth.

http://www.ispca.ie/news/view/docking_of_dogs_tails

http://www.pets.ie/pet_talk/ispca-rescues-litter-puppies-illegally-docked-tails/

snipe49

maggiepip wrote: »

I hope someone reports you
PS I am aware that thats probably not the whole truth.

http://www.ispca.ie/news/view/docking_of_dogs_tails

http://www.pets.ie/pet_talk/ispca-rescues-litter-puppies-illegally-docked-tails/

Look here HONEY. is good for dog as well as humans.

WalkingDude

The PROHIBITION ON TAIL DOCKING AND DEW CLAW REMOVAL (DOGS) REGULATIONS 2014 which are in force since March 6th make it illegal to dock pup's tails or remove dew claws. There are exceptions allowing for vets to dock the tails of certain breeds under 8 days of age if those pups are to be involved in hunting.

BUT, Veterinary Ireland have banned their members from performing the procedure unless there is a valid reason to do so. And they don't believe that there is evidence to support the argument that docking prevents future injuries. So they should only remove tails if there is already an injury.

So, if your vet was to do it, they'd be running the risk of being struck off. If you were to do it and were found out, you would be prosecuted for cruelty and could be banned from keeping dogs altogether.

The IKC won't register pups if they know they're docked and they won't allow docked dogs to compete in their shows.

maggiepip

WalkingDude wrote: »

The PROHIBITION ON TAIL DOCKING AND DEW CLAW REMOVAL (DOGS) REGULATIONS 2014 which are in force since March 6th make it illegal to dock pup's tails or remove dew claws. There are exceptions allowing for vets to dock the tails of certain breeds under 8 days of age if those pups are to be involved in hunting.

BUT, Veterinary Ireland have banned their members from performing the procedure unless there is a valid reason to do so. And they don't believe that there is evidence to support the argument that docking prevents future injuries. So they should only remove tails if there is already an injury.

So, if your vet was to do it, they'd be running the risk of being struck off. If you were to do it and were found out, you would be prosecuted for cruelty and could be banned from keeping dogs altogether.

The IKC won't register pups if they know they're docked and they won't allow docked dogs to compete in their shows.

Thank you for clarifying that.

Jimy1971

So am I reading this right? If my pups are to be used for hunting, which they will,, then it's ok to have them docked under 8 days old???

snipe49

Jimy1971 wrote: »

So am I reading this right? If my pups are to be used for hunting, which they will,, then it's ok to have them docked under 8 days old???

Read what i wrote above pal.

ESB Spaniel

Was at the NARGC meeting with Des last month and he said that they are fighting the case over the tails and that they will win, but at the moment you can not register pups that have tails docked and it is illegal to dock them at the moment.

Capercaille

snipe49 wrote: »

Are u going to regester the pups if yes then it going to be a tough one, If your not then here is what i do, I get a jar of honey and a cotton bud i dip the bud in the honey then dab a bit on the tail of the pup when it's 4 days old i do this for 5 days the bitch lickes the honey and on the fifth day the tail falls off . Great trick works all the time.

That's cruel. You would be better just chopping the tail off.

Kiltris

How many of ye have a springer with a full tail?

donacarney

I've a springer with papers and would rather dock the tails and not register the pups, than have them with long tails,that's just my opinion. Maybe others think the same, so kennell club will be the ones missing out.

Jimy1971

My bitch has about 4 inches docked off the end of her tail and has never cut it no matter how thick the cover she goes through so that's what I was going to do with her pups. Unsure now what to do. Would hate to let her breeding line stop by not registering her pups. Strong Monalue and Badgercourt.

ESB Spaniel

donacarney wrote: »

I've a springer with papers and would rather dock the tails and not register the pups, than have them with long tails,that's just my opinion. Maybe others think the same, so kennell club will be the ones missing out.

Any man hunting dogs will want the tails docked.....simple

ESB Spaniel

Jimy1971 wrote: »

My bitch has about 4 inches docked off the end of her tail and has never cut it no matter how thick the cover she goes through so that's what I was going to do with her pups. Unsure now what to do. Would hate to let her breeding line stop by not registering her pups. Strong Monalue and Badgercourt.

My bitch is the same, never seen her tail cut, and she would bleed everywhere else ;-)

donacarney

Jimy1971 wrote: »

My bitch has about 4 inches docked off the end of her tail and has never cut it no matter how thick the cover she goes through so that's what I was going to do with her pups. Unsure now what to do. Would hate to let her breeding line stop by not registering her pups. Strong Monalue and Badgercourt.

If they were docked how is the kennel club going to know,
but like the last lad said most hunting lads want ter dogs tail docked.

Jimy1971

Yeah I hear you but if I take a pup with a docked tail to a vet to be chipped prior to registering, can I be reported?