Humidity issue in rented house.

PurpleVintage

Heya, i'd like to get some good knowledgeable opinions on this.
My sister's been on the hunt for a house to move into in Carlow since March for her and her family. She had to renewal her lease twice and thankfully, the previous company she was with were completely understandable and ok with it. So she finally found a house this week, after 5 months of nothing that would suit her budget + needs. She paid the deposit today and now here's the thing... AFTER she paid the deposit and signed the tenacy form agreement, she was told by the Manager of whatever company she's renting with that she is somehow obliged to have her radiator on for 3 months in the winter as the house has humidity problems. She went on to say that IF she doesnt turn it on, she WILL be kicked out of the house, regardless of the house being a 1 year contract. When my sister explained she didnt turn on any radiators, as not only does she have asthma and it makes her lungs feel burned out, it also gives her headaches and makes her dizzy, the manager practically said tough, you're gonna have to have it on. :mad:

Now, I just wanna know if this is legal and HOW it is legal. Should something like that NOT be stated in the ad describing the house? Furthermore, is it not the landlords responsibility to handle the humidity issues?! And should something like that not be stated BEFORE signing any documents?! Apparently she said, that they will know if she hasnt been turning on the rads because the house gets covered in humidity inside and outside. She said the rads have to be on at least 2 hours per day during the winter months.

Is it just me who finds this complete bull**** and thinks that Manager is one piece of horsesarse for leaving it till the very end, AFTER she signed her tenacy form to let her know this? She kenw how much my sister needed the house and took advantage imo. Not only does my sister react very negatively to the rads being on, its also one extra bill and she just cant afford to pay 300 or however much it'll cost to have the rads on all those days! Any specific laws or info that is relevant to this will be appreciated.

My sister kinda feels like she has her hands tied behind her back with this one, cause if she complains she's worried they'll refuse to rent it to her (even though she already did, she's moving in tomorrow). She explained that she cant have the rads on because of the health side effects, but doesnt know what to do in this situation as she's not in a position to lose the house

Ocean Blue

PurpleVintage wrote: »

Heya, i'd like to get some good knowledgeable opinions on this.
My sister's been on the hunt for a house to move into in Carlow since March for her and her family. She had to renewal her lease twice and thankfully, the previous company she was with were completely understandable and ok with it. So she finally found a house this week, after 5 months of nothing that would suit her budget + needs. She paid the deposit today and now here's the thing... AFTER she paid the deposit and signed the tenacy form agreement, she was told by the Manager of whatever company she's renting with that she is somehow obliged to have her radiator on for 3 months in the winter as the house has humidity problems. She went on to say that IF she doesnt turn it on, she WILL be kicked out of the house, regardless of the house being a 1 year contract. When my sister explained she didnt turn on any radiators, as not only does she have asthma and it makes her lungs feel burned out, it also gives her headaches and makes her dizzy, the manager practically said tough, you're gonna have to have it on. :mad:

Now, I just wanna know if this is legal and HOW it is legal. Should something like that NOT be stated in the ad describing the house? Furthermore, is it not the landlords responsibility to handle the humidity issues?! And should something like that not be stated BEFORE signing any documents?! Apparently she said, that they will know if she hasnt been turning on the rads because the house gets covered in humidity inside and outside. She said the rads have to be on at least 2 hours per day during the winter months.

Is it just me who finds this complete bull**** and thinks that Manager is one piece of horsesarse for leaving it till the very end, AFTER she signed her tenacy form to let her know this? She kenw how much my sister needed the house and took advantage imo. Not only does my sister react very negatively to the rads being on, its also one extra bill and she just cant afford to pay 300 or however much it'll cost to have the rads on all those days! Any specific laws or info that is relevant to this will be appreciated.

My sister kinda feels like she has her hands tied behind her back with this one, cause if she complains she's worried they'll refuse to rent it to her (even though she already did, she's moving in tomorrow). She explained that she cant have the rads on because of the health side effects, but doesnt know what to do in this situation as she's not in a position to lose the house

Surely having heating on for 2 hours a day during the winter is not excessive. How does she propose to keep the place warm and dry otherwise?

L1011

How does she intend to actually live in an unheated house?

PurpleVintage

I guess some people are more sensitive to the cold than others, because we've always made do with blankets. We haven't been brought up in radiator air-filled houses due to her problems so what may be unusual for yous is certainly the norm for us. She stays warm by wearing winter pyjamas and blankets and doing what people that live in houses without radiators do... as for the house, there's 3 people living in which give off body heat + all the electrics on especially the computers + the oven and stuff. The only winter we've ever had a problem with temperature wise was the one in 2010, and we kepts the rads on downstairs and off in her and my room. Other than that, we never really struggle or have the need to turn them on. I dont really know how to answer, I guess we're naturally more tolerant to cold temperatures? Blankets and hot pyjamas are more than enough for us :S

Regardless, should having your radiators on not be a choice as opposed to something that's forced on you? What right does anyone have to dictate which housing appliances someone should be using, that's ridiculous. What I wanna know is if it's legal or even alright for her to do what she did - wait until the deposit was payed and the form signed to then not only tell her she has to have it on, but practically threaten to kick her out if she doesnt. That's not how it should work, and surely that cant be legal.

goz83

Unless its in the contract, there's nothing the manager can do, other than not renew the lease in 12 months time. There is no requirement for heating to be turned on.

Ocean Blue

PurpleVintage wrote: »

I guess some people are more sensitive to the cold than others, because we've always made do with blankets. We haven't been brought up in radiator air-filled houses due to her problems so what may be unusual for yous is certainly the norm for us. She stays warm by wearing winter pyjamas and blankets and doing what people that live in houses without radiators do... as for the house, there's 3 people living in which give off body heat + all the electrics on especially the computers + the oven and stuff. The only winter we've ever had a problem with temperature wise was the one in 2010, and we kepts the rads on downstairs and off in her and my room. Other than that, we never really struggle or have the need to turn them on. I dont really know how to answer, I guess we're naturally more tolerant to cold temperatures? Blankets and hot pyjamas are more than enough for us :S

Regardless, should having your radiators on not be a choice as opposed to something that's forced on you? What right does anyone have to dictate which housing appliances someone should be using, that's ridiculous. What I wanna know is if it's legal or even alright for her to do what she did - wait until the deposit was payed and the form signed to then not only tell her she has to have it on, but practically threaten to kick her out if she doesnt. That's not how it should work, and surely that cant be legal.

Well if it's your own house you can do what you like I guess. If you're renting it's your responsibility to look after the other person's property and not let mildew/damp develop. Not using heating could cause this in any house, especially if the landlord has given prior warning. Fair enough it hasn't been handled well but I don't think it's unreasonable of a landlord to request that the house is heated appropriately.

goz83

Ocean Blue wrote: »

Well if it's your own house you can do what you like I guess. If you're renting it's your responsibility to look after the other person's property and not let mildew/damp develop. Not using heating could cause this in any house, especially if the landlord has given prior warning. Fair enough it hasn't been handled well but I don't think it's unreasonable of a landlord to request that the house is heated appropriately.

According to the OP, it wasn't a request, it was a threat

Ocean Blue

goz83 wrote: »

According to the OP, it wasn't a request, it was a threat

'should having your radiators on not be a choice as opposed to something that's forced on you?'

I've already acknowledged it was handled badly. She has asked is it reasonable that a landlord requires certain appliances that are provided to be used. That is the query here as far as I read it.

alias no.9

Open a (small) window in each room for an hour in the morning and in the kitchen when you're cooking and bathroom after showers or baths and there'll be no problem with condensation.

sunnysoutheast

goz83 wrote: »

Unless its in the contract, there's nothing the manager can do, other than not renew the lease in 12 months time. There is no requirement for heating to be turned on.

There is usually a clause in the lease agreement that the property must be adequately warmed and aired, particularly in the winter months.

Ventilation is usually more of an issue than heating. I would not be surprised to find that mould/etc. has been an issue in this property before, given the way that the agent is behaving. Has the OP's sister checked for vents?

PurpleVintage

She actually hasn't moved into the house yet, she will be moving tomorrow. I will ask her to check though.
And no it was not a request, it was a threat. She made it very clear that if she suspected the radiators were not turned on daily during certain months, she would be kicked out. My main issue is the fact that not only was it a threat, she completely dismissed my sister's strong reaction to the radiators (basically didn't even offer up any other advice! Surely there's other options!) and failed to mention this before the official documentation was signed. I was under the impression things like that absolutely had to be brought up? The way she made it sound was that the house would be covered in mold inside and outside! These were her words exactly.
I mean you don't wait until someone's payed up the deposit and signed their tenacy form to tell them little "irrelevant" side notes such as "Oh by the way, you're gonna have to turn the radiators on for at least 3 months during the winter every single day for a couple of hours, due to the mold issue this house has. We can't be arsed actually fixing the issue, so instead you're gonna have to pay up yourself. Otherwise you're out the door regardless of the 1 year term lease.". I mean what else is it ok to not mention until someone is guaranteed to be renting the place, that the lock on the door is broken? That the windows don't actually close properly?
I appreciate all the feedback by the way.

cerastes

Having read a few threads and been relayed a few stories of woe, I wonder why it seems mostly that its rented houses that suffer condensation.

Mrs OBumble

There's no way that it is healthy for anyone to be living in a house that is essentially unheated during winter.

OP, if your sister's lungs (apparently) cannot cope with warm air at home, then how does she manage at work, college, etc?

Ocean Blue

PurpleVintage wrote: »

She actually hasn't moved into the house yet, she will be moving tomorrow. I will ask her to check though.
And no it was not a request, it was a threat. She made it very clear that if she suspected the radiators were not turned on daily during certain months, she would be kicked out. My main issue is the fact that not only was it a threat, she completely dismissed my sister's strong reaction to the radiators (basically didn't even offer up any other advice! Surely there's other options!) and failed to mention this before the official documentation was signed. I was under the impression things like that absolutely had to be brought up? The way she made it sound was that the house would be covered in mold inside and outside! These were her words exactly.
I mean you don't wait until someone's payed up the deposit and signed their tenacy form to tell them little "irrelevant" side notes such as "Oh by the way, you're gonna have to turn the radiators on for at least 3 months during the winter every single day for a couple of hours, due to the mold issue this house has. We can't be arsed actually fixing the issue, so instead you're gonna have to pay up yourself. Otherwise you're out the door regardless of the 1 year term lease.". I mean what else is it ok to not mention until someone is guaranteed to be renting the place, that the lock on the door is broken? That the windows don't actually close properly?
I appreciate all the feedback by the way.

Did your sister read the lease line by line before signing? Is it possible there is a clause in there referring to use of heating. And then the agent was reinforcing the rule verbally (albeit in a horrible manner).

If she didn't read it line by line maybe she has unknowingly already signed her agreement.

username123

Spores from mold will be a hell of a lot worse for asthma than radiators. Cold air usually makes mine worse too.

How does you sister manage normally, in shops, school, college, cinemas, restaurants, other people's houses etc? It would be normal for most indoor places to be heated in an Irish winter.

I don't see how anyone can prove that the rads are turned on or not. If the place is properly ventilated and wet clothes not dried indoors etc then that will keep the humidity down.

fash

She can get a dehumidifier if damp is an issue- plus it would be far better for any dampness in the house.

PurpleVintage

She said there was no "rules" in the form she signed, for now it's a tenacy form agreement + the deposit. I made sure to ask.

@MrsObumble
I'm not sure why (apparently) needs to be used when referring to her lungs, nor am I sure why doubts have to be raised about it. We're not playing detectives here, I asked a question (which was not to do with whether my sister's lungs are affected by the radiator but whether it was legal for the manager to do what she did) and that's it. Even if she wasn't affected by the radiators like I said before, if someone is practically obliged to use a specific house appliance that will in return cost money that was not going to be wasted in the first place, it should sure as hell be stated before anyone agrees to anything. But it just so happens that she has an adverse reaction to it. If dirt comes with the house, than I wanna know before I pay for it, is that so bad?

But just to humor you, a college classroom is a hell of a lot bigger than a bedroom with the computer on - more air circulating. Same as work. A shopping center is even bigger so, once again a lot more air to heat up, therefore the temperature isn't as high (or at least doesnt feel so), the air isnt as "burned".
I can speak for myself, considering I get the same symptoms as her. It's not necessarily that the lungs cant cope with the radiator air, because I am not a doctor so I dont know how it works. But it sure as hell is unpleasant and can trigger asthma-attack induced symptoms. Panick, an extreme feel of lack of oxygen, a need to get out into open fresh ventilated air asap, and headaches. The smell left in the air after the rads have been on don't help either. Sound like something you wanna be experiencing in your own house every damn day for 3 months?

Am I saying being in a classroom or shopping center with the heating on is comfortable? No, it's unpleasant. But the bigger the space, the less unpleasant it is.


As for all the humidity/damp reducing suggestions, I greatly appreciate them and will definitely tell her and have her put them to practice. Thanks a lot

pablo128

alias no.9 wrote: »

Open a (small) window in each room for an hour in the morning and in the kitchen when you're cooking and bathroom after showers or baths and there'll be no problem with condensation.

Doesn't always work. We had terrible trouble in our council apartment with damp and condensation. Eventually the council fitted it out with a dehumidifying unit at a cost of 12k - along with other apartments of the same design in the estate. They were all suffering.

fash wrote: »

She can get a dehumidifier if damp is an issue- plus it would be far better for any dampness in the house.

A normal standalone dehumidifier would be very heavy on electricity. We had one, as a kind of trial run before they put the system right through our apartment. Incidentally the unit in our place uses little electricity as it only comes on when needed.

rawn

This house sounds awfully like a house I rented in Carlow. Is it on the Killeshin Rd by any chance? I dunno why people are trying to pick holes in your story. I rarely, if ever, switch the radiators on, even in winter. I just wrap up. Dunno why people find that so horrifying! The problem is ventiliaton. That or the damp proof course in the floors.

pablo128

rawn wrote: »

This house sounds awfully like a house I rented in Carlow. Is it on the Killeshin Rd by any chance? I dunno why people are trying to pick holes in your story. I rarely, if ever, switch the radiators on, even in winter. I just wrap up. Dunno why people find that so horrifying! The problem is ventiliaton. That or the damp proof course in the floors.

I'd agree. The house was either badly designed, or badly built. I know it isn't any help to the OP though.

How Strange

If I were your sister and I had such bad asthma I wouldn't want to live in a house with such terrible damp problems. I'd imagine the spores from mildew and the dampness would be very bad for her health.

However, if she wants to live there then having heating on at a very low level at regular intervals throughout the day AND regular ventilation is the best thing to do.

We have a dampness issue in our apartment, which we own, and we've found this the best way to manage it.

PLUG71

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

There's no way that it is healthy for anyone to be living in a house that is essentially unheated during winter.

OP, if your sister's lungs (apparently) cannot cope with warm air at home, then how does she manage at work, college, etc?

Not very understanding towards a person with asthma!

Totally understand where she is coming from!!

How Strange

If I were your sister and I had such bad asthma I wouldn't want to live in a house with such terrible damp problems. I'd imagine the spores from mildew and the dampness would be very bad for her health.

However, if she wants to live there then having heating on at a very low level at regular intervals throughout the day AND regular ventilation is the best thing to do.

We have a dampness issue in our apartment, which we own, and we've found this the best way to manage it.

Mrs OBumble

PLUG71 wrote: »

Not very understanding towards a person with asthma!

Totally understand where she is coming from!!

Have you got a link to any reputable health advice which says that low temperatures are part of an asthma management plan?

PLUG71

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Have you got a link to any reputable health advice which says that low temperatures are part of an asthma management plan?

No I dont!!

I dont need a link because I have suffered for 40 years with asthma and I can assure you that central heating (radiators/hot air etc) are a massive problem.

Your post actually doubted what the o/p was saying!?

Moving on,the o/p will be in a catch 22 situation because any damp issues exasperated by a lack of heating the property may be worse than the effects the heating system may cause.

L1011

PLUG71 wrote: »

You post actauly doubted what the o/p was saying!?

Because its unprovable pseudoscience/correlation rather than fact. As it is for you too I'd imagine.

username123

How Strange wrote: »

If I were your sister and I had such bad asthma I wouldn't want to live in a house with such terrible damp problems. I'd imagine the spores from mildew and the dampness would be very bad for her health.

However, if she wants to live there then having heating on at a very low level at regular intervals throughout the day AND regular ventilation is the best thing to do.

We have a dampness issue in our apartment, which we own, and we've found this the best way to manage it.

I agree.

Your health comes first. Damp is going to have a very bad effect on the lungs for someone who suffers already.

I think your sister would be better off pulling out of this. She can talk to a solicitor and her doctor and make a case based on her health.

The_Morrigan

Folks can we stop with all the flippant responses? Asthma is very subjective and triggers are different for everyone - I'd also like to remind everyone that this is A&P, so the focus should be on the property issues, not the personal health issues and medical advice reports

PLUG71

MYOB wrote: »

Because its unprovable pseudoscience/correlation rather than fact. As it is for you too I'd imagine.

Just ask most people with Asthma what things aggravate it.

People are so quick t discredit a person because they dont post a link!

PLUG71

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Folks can we stop with all the flippant responses? Asthma is very subjective and triggers are different for everyone - I'd also like to remind everyone that this is A&P, so the focus should be on the property issues, not the personal health issues and medical advice reports

Apologies I did'nt see your post!

L1011

PLUG71 wrote: »

Just ask most people with Asthma what things aggravate it.

People are so quick t discredit a person because they dont post a link!

I *am* asthmatic. There's a major difference between air conditions with different forms of heat so a claim that "central heating" as a general concept is a trigger is clearly inaccurate by omission at the very least.

Forced-air central heating is going to have a vastly different impact on air conditions than convection heating via radiators for starters.

If humidity is the concern there are ways around this other than living in an unheated house - which is almost inevitably going to lead to far more serious mold/dampness issues.