Kids buggy in an apartment block

mglc021

We’re renting an apartment, for the last 9 months we kept our daughter’s buggy on the corridor, outside the door.
The corridor is wide enough, the buggy does not take up much space, neither it blocks anything.
Today, the managing company sent us a letter saying that we’re breaching Health & Safety regulations and if we continue to keep the buggy outside “it will be removed without any notice”.

Firstly, can they “remove” it?
Is it not stealing?

Secondly, if there is any law regulating such a thing, where to look for it?
thanks

beyondbelief67

There is laws under health and safety for anything stored in hallways and corridors as they are a risk of there is a fire and yes they can remove any item that is there, if they didn't it would be them who were fined and charged if inspected by fire department.

on_my_oe

mglc021 wrote: »

We’re renting an apartment, for the last 9 months we kept our daughter’s buggy on the corridor, outside the door.
The corridor is wide enough, the buggy does not take up much space, neither it blocks anything.

An honest question, if it doesn't take up much room, why don't you keep it inside the apartment?

As beyondbelief says it is a hazard as people may trip over it. Also, being honest prams left it in the hallway make it look cluttered and unkept. When we looked at duplexes in a development, the kids bikes and prams left in the corridor put us off.

username123

You rent the apartment, not the corridor. If there was a fire at night people could be obstructed by an unexpected item in the corridor.

Teyla Emmagan

I would hate that if I were your neighbours. Shared areas should be kept clear of personal belongings.

Chattastrophe!

Keep your own belongings in your own apartment.

When I lived in apartments, it would have really pissed me off if neighbours stored belongings in shared areas. It's embarrassing if you have people over - "Oh don't mind that mess, my neighbour just likes to keep his stuff out here." It's just weird and inconsiderate.

If the buggy doesn't fit in your apartment, it may be time to consider moving to more appropriate accommodation?

Where do you draw the line? How much of your neighbour's personal belongings would you be happy to have cluttering up the hallways?

The_Morrigan

mglc021 wrote: »

We’re renting an apartment, for the last 9 months we kept our daughter’s buggy on the corridor, outside the door.
The corridor is wide enough, the buggy does not take up much space, neither it blocks anything.
Today, the managing company sent us a letter saying that we’re breaching Health & Safety regulations and if we continue to keep the buggy outside “it will be removed without any notice”.

Firstly, can they “remove” it?
Is it not stealing?

Secondly, if there is any law regulating such a thing, where to look for it?
thanks

Yes they can remove it and no it is not stealing as you've abandoned the item on their property.
The management 'house rules' would likely include a section about not leaving items in the communal areas - buggys/bikes/toys/shoes etc, as they pose a risk in the event of an emergency.
Store the buggy in your apartment in future.

Pawwed Rig

If everyone was to do the same thing the apartment block would be completely cluttered with bicycles, old washing machines, rubbish bags etc in no time. Management company is absolutely correct in this imho.

We have the same issue in that we had to lug our pram up 2 flights of steps everyday to get to the apartment. Luckily we are in a small development and one of the owner occupiers (via the mgt co.) gave us access to a press on the ground floor to store ours in. Wouldn't have dreamt of leaving it in the corridor though as one of the neighbours had stuff stored outside his door for over a year and it annoyed the hell out of me.

deandean

This says it all about the crap design of apartment blocks in Ireland.

In most countries on the continent (Austria, Germany etc) there is a 'pram room' at groundfloor level, for your pram.

And a 'party room' which you can book for your kid's birthday party.

And a secure bicycle area where your bike won't get nicked.

etc etc.

Albeit with higher management company charges.

Grandpa Hassan

I have to echo the others I'm afraid OP. You shouldn't be keeping stuff in the corridor and the management company are correct to threaten to remove it. I'm sure you wouldn't be thrilled if your neighbors decided to keep their bikes in the corridor outside your flat.

mglc021

Thanks everyone for the input.
I see your point with keeping the corridor tidy.
Anyway, I spoke with my better half and the buggy has been relocated

Diane Selwyn

deandean wrote: »

This says it all about the crap design of apartment blocks in Ireland.

In most countries on the continent (Austria, Germany etc) there is a 'pram room' at groundfloor level, for your pram.

And a 'party room' which you can book for your kid's birthday party.

And a secure bicycle area where your bike won't get nicked.

etc etc.

Albeit with higher management company charges.

I rented in a building in Dublin that had a dedicated indoor space for bikes/buggies/whatever - not a corridor but a storage area that suited the job. It wasn't actually a purpose built apartment but a converted Georgian building. There was no communal party room though.

Greenmachine

Diane Selwyn wrote: »

I rented in a building in Dublin that had a dedicated indoor space for bikes/buggies/whatever - not a corridor but a storage area that suited the job. It wasn't actually a purpose built apartment but a converted Georgian building. There was no communal party room though.

In parts of northern europe, most apartment have ancilliary services in the basement like parking spaces, communal drying areas for laundry, and individual storage bays. I have never seen anything even close to this in ireland.

keith16

Greenmachine wrote: »

In parts of northern europe, most apartment have ancilliary services in the basement like parking spaces, communal drying areas for laundry, and individual storage bays. I have never seen anything even close to this in ireland.

Nope, doesn't exist. Everyone harps on about the need for high density living, which has its merits, but there is no concept of what good communal living looks like. It's almost designed to be adversarial.

- Nothing on balconies
- Child / family unfriendly
- Gardens / green areas for the sake of it - no kids running / games

All very superficial IMO.

mglc021

Greenmachine wrote: »

In parts of northern europe, most apartment have ancilliary services in the basement like parking spaces, communal drying areas for laundry, and individual storage bays. I have never seen anything even close to this in ireland.

All of this (well, except parking) is pretty much a standard all over Europe.
I am not sure whats Dublin like but Cork is years behind continental Europe. There is only one or two decent complex apartments buildings with amenities designed to make life easier and happier...

Santa Cruz

deandean wrote: »

This says it all about the crap design of apartment blocks in Ireland.

In most countries on the continent (Austria, Germany etc) there is a 'pram room' at groundfloor level, for your pram.

And a 'party room' which you can book for your kid's birthday party.

And a secure bicycle area where your bike won't get nicked.

etc etc.

Albeit with higher management company charges.

Very true. In the US, Scandanavia they have designed apartments for long term living not long term renting to young people. Independent storage areas for unused furniture, golf clubs, prams etc. Laundry facilities, Concierge/janitor service. Social room etc.

awec

I imagine the apartments themselves are bigger too if they are designed for long term living?

We're all about squeezing as many apartments in to a space as possible here. Make them small, with second bedrooms that you couldn't swing a cat in. No storage space cause that would take up valuable space that could be used to build another undersized apartment.

Pawwed Rig

awec wrote: »

I imagine the apartments themselves are bigger too if they are designed for long term living?

We're all about squeezing as many apartments in to a space as possible here. Make them small, with second bedrooms that you couldn't swing a cat in. No storage space cause that would take up valuable space that could be used to build another undersized apartment.

But all with 2 bathrooms for some reason :rolleyes:

awec

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

But all with 2 bathrooms for some reason :rolleyes:

Yea, though one of the bathrooms often is tiny.

Tiny kitchens seems to be another popular one.

I viewed a place where the second bedroom had a single bed and bedside cabinet in it and you actually wouldn't be able to fit any other furniture in it. This was a newish apartment too in a purpose build apartment complex (i.e. not a renovated house).

The second bathroom would have had you having to shuffle sideways past the toilet to get to the shower it was that narrow. There would have been room for absolutely no storage in the bathroom at all - shower, sink and toilet. No cupboards, no shelf.

athtrasna

Going closer to the OP 's issue, the vast majority of apartment dwellers grew up in houses and are not conditioned for high density living. Stuff being left in corridors, noisy parties, fire doors being propped open, in my experience people don't think about how their actions impact others in the block. Consideration is very important in apartment life. That the OP didn't realise that leaving the buggy outside potentially put others in danger is just one example of the lack of awareness of the issues that come with apartment living.

We can bemoan the lack of storage but the apartments we choose to live in are what they are, we need to deal with what we have.

Lantus

market forces don't create environments that humans can benefit from and enjoy long term, they are only interested in he monetary return which is typically short term and at the expense of any long term solution or peoples wellbeing.

large scale apartments could be hugely desirable spaces with ample room, integrated storage systems for bikes, families, drying rooms, parking, and even built across different levels with 4 or 5 large bedrooms and large balconies with advanced materials energy systems to make them sustainable and long term solutions. There's not much profit in that though.

What sort of a supposedly intelligent species builds rabbit hutches to house men, women and children for 50-100+ years just so one person can accumulate vast sums of money? mmmmmm?

syklops

athtrasna wrote: »

Going closer to the OP 's issue, the vast majority of apartment dwellers grew up in houses and are not conditioned for high density living. Stuff being left in corridors, noisy parties, fire doors being propped open, in my experience people don't think about how their actions impact others in the block. Consideration is very important in apartment life. That the OP didn't realise that leaving the buggy outside potentially put others in danger is just one example of the lack of awareness of the issues that come with apartment living.

We can bemoan the lack of storage but the apartments we choose to live in are what they are, we need to deal with what we have.

To be honest, a lack of consideration for others is an Irish thing. Its got nothing to do with not being conditioned for apartment living. For whatever reason large segments of our populace just don't give a fudge about anyone else but themselves. Sad, but thats the reality.

I live in one of the better apartment buildings in Dublin, in that it was designed and is managed with long term living in mind. We have underground parking, residents only gym, well kept green areas etc. However we still don't have any storage space. The apartment is pretty small, kitchen is tiny, and there was a note on the notice board last night stating anyone seen drying clothes on the balconies will be fined 250 euro. Well done guys. You were nearly there. In 10 years time they will be dealing with damp because people have been drying clothes in their rooms. :rolleyes:

Pawwed Rig

It is the councils that are the problem. They are the ones that determine the planning, minimum standards and bye laws of apartment blocks. The developer is there to make money and will try and make as much as they can. Every development you see has to go through a onerous planning process where the council will try and make sure there are not too many floors and as few apartments as possible never mind the requirement for a social housing allocation. They don't give a crap about facilities for private apartment blocks. When you compare this to the council developments with play grounds, basketball courts, football goals you would wonder.
The fact is they do not consider apartments as long term dwellings. They are for 20 somethings to live in before they get married and buy a house in the suburbs.

Grandpa Hassan

I think that there is a lot of comparing apples and oranges here. The kind of apartments on the continent with the space and amenities that are being discussed, are largely in huge old buildings with spacious hallways and high ceilings. I regularly stay in an apartment in Berlin in such a building, and there are none in Ireland that are similar. The Germans and the French have just built bigger, grander buildings for the last hundred years or more. And these exist in such large volumes that there is not the pressure for new build flats

OK....there were 3 or 4 years in Ireland when absolutely terrible flats were built, but in my experience the kind of flats being built post-crash are not dissimilar to new-build flats in Berlin or Paris or anywhere.

An old brick built Berlin mansion block is not comparable to anything built in Ireland in a similar period.

Mrs OBumble

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

It is the councils that are the problem. They are the ones that determine the planning, minimum standards and bye laws of apartment blocks.

In fairness, there needs to be a balance.

We need some apartments for students and 20-somethings who won't live there long term. And some for poorer people who cannot afford fancy apartments. (Compare the current situation where some perfectly good bedsits cannot be used to house now-homeless consenting adults, because middle class bureaucrats consider that they need their own bathroom.)

But overall I'd say that it's not the apartments themselves that are too small, it's the lack of out-of-apartment facilities that's the issue.


NB If you want to see what small apartments really look like, visit some city-dwellers in Seoul.

conorhal

deandean wrote: »

This says it all about the crap design of apartment blocks in Ireland.

In most countries on the continent (Austria, Germany etc) there is a 'pram room' at groundfloor level, for your pram.

And a 'party room' which you can book for your kid's birthday party.

And a secure bicycle area where your bike won't get nicked.

etc etc.

Albeit with higher management company charges.

Frankly I'd happily settle for a cupbord INSIDE an apartment.
I looked at a few apartments during the boom, and I was kind of shocked that in many of then there wasn't even a space where so much as a hoover could be stored.
Our planners need a good kick up the arse. There should be a minimum storage space requirement in planning permissions.

As for the OP's quandry, it beggars belief how people treat common spaces doesn't it? They had to remove the bins from the public areas in one of the blocks where I rent because of people putting dirty nappies into them and stinking out the corridors. A corridor isn't a dump or a store room, don't treat it as such.

Paulw

I really like my apartment. I have storage space for bike/buggy under the stairs. My "box room" is large enough, and my main and 2nd bedroom both have built in wardrobes. My apartment is larger that most 3 bed houses in the area.

The unit was built in 2005/2006, so the height of the boom. It is a solid building, with concrete floors and walls, so sound doesn't travel much.

Maybe I was lucky, but this was the best building that I found when I was looking.

Nothing is stored in the communal hall, so we're all fine.

L1011

Paulw wrote: »

I really like my apartment. I have storage space for bike/buggy under the stairs. My "box room" is large enough, and my main and 2nd bedroom both have built in wardrobes. My apartment is larger that most 3 bed houses in the area.

The unit was built in 2005/2006, so the height of the boom. It is a solid building, with concrete floors and walls, so sound doesn't travel much.

Maybe I was lucky, but this was the best building that I found when I was looking.

Nothing is stored in the communal hall, so we're all fine.

There were one or two developers who built properly sized apartments even at the height of the boom (Wallace, apparently; although not paying your VAT does help the auld profit margins...). Unfortunately there were far more shoeboxes than properly sized ones.

Greenmachine

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

In fairness, there needs to be a balance.

We need some apartments for students and 20-somethings who won't live there long term. And some for poorer people who cannot afford fancy apartments. (Compare the current situation where some perfectly good bedsits cannot be used to house now-homeless consenting adults, because middle class bureaucrats consider that they need their own bathroom.)

But overall I'd say that it's not the apartments themselves that are too small, it's the lack of out-of-apartment facilities that's the issue.


NB If you want to see what small apartments really look like, visit some city-dwellers in Seoul.

I have seen many such bedsits on viewings and with friends living in them. They are disgusting f'ing dumps. I would sooner stay in a hostel than some of those places.

Ray Palmer

What I find so odd about people talking about the magical properties in central Europe. Having being in apartments in Europe I can say people are selectively blind. Yes Germany and France have great apartments but they also have apartments very like ours. In Spain and Italy I have seen incredibly small apartments that wouldn't be legal here.
Ireland had to play catch up and provide apartments as housing stock was mostly 3 bed semis and after that it was mostly large old houses converted (mostly Georgian houses)
The issue isn't with councils but planning regulations which are not far off modern European standards and actually better on some issues.
The main reason central Europe has so many large apartments was they were built with funds given after WWII due to mass destruction of the stock they did have. It is like complaining that RTE is not as good as the BBC completely missing reality

pwurple

It is about expense. When i was in the market to buy a city apartment, I was shown loads of identikit apartments in identikit blocks. I wanted something with high ceilings, in a good location, decent size rooms, soundproofed (hate hearing my neighbours in flats!) and some storage. I eventually bought something in the city center which was previously a niteclub, and refurbed it into an apartment. Worked out pretty well for what I wanted while I lived there, and since I started leasing that place it has never been empty for more than a few days between tenants. But it will never ever be worth what I spent on it.

There are loads of these buildings around in cities, old cinemas, above shops, etc. buildings with a bit of history, plenty of space, but they all lie empty and start to rot away. Meanwhile, dedicated blocks of low ceiling ones are put up. I guess it's cheaper to build the cardboard ones, than repair the older solid ones.

If I had a solid chunk of money, I'd love to resurrect some more of these, and make them livable... But that's my philanthropic side talking, the business-person in me says "are you nuts?".