Kids buggy in an apartment block

mglc021

We’re renting an apartment, for the last 9 months we kept our daughter’s buggy on the corridor, outside the door.
The corridor is wide enough, the buggy does not take up much space, neither it blocks anything.
Today, the managing company sent us a letter saying that we’re breaching Health & Safety regulations and if we continue to keep the buggy outside “it will be removed without any notice”.

Firstly, can they “remove” it?
Is it not stealing?

Secondly, if there is any law regulating such a thing, where to look for it?
thanks

beyondbelief67

There is laws under health and safety for anything stored in hallways and corridors as they are a risk of there is a fire and yes they can remove any item that is there, if they didn't it would be them who were fined and charged if inspected by fire department.

on_my_oe

mglc021 wrote: »

We’re renting an apartment, for the last 9 months we kept our daughter’s buggy on the corridor, outside the door.
The corridor is wide enough, the buggy does not take up much space, neither it blocks anything.

An honest question, if it doesn't take up much room, why don't you keep it inside the apartment?

As beyondbelief says it is a hazard as people may trip over it. Also, being honest prams left it in the hallway make it look cluttered and unkept. When we looked at duplexes in a development, the kids bikes and prams left in the corridor put us off.

username123

You rent the apartment, not the corridor. If there was a fire at night people could be obstructed by an unexpected item in the corridor.

Teyla Emmagan

I would hate that if I were your neighbours. Shared areas should be kept clear of personal belongings.

Chattastrophe!

Keep your own belongings in your own apartment.

When I lived in apartments, it would have really pissed me off if neighbours stored belongings in shared areas. It's embarrassing if you have people over - "Oh don't mind that mess, my neighbour just likes to keep his stuff out here." It's just weird and inconsiderate.

If the buggy doesn't fit in your apartment, it may be time to consider moving to more appropriate accommodation?

Where do you draw the line? How much of your neighbour's personal belongings would you be happy to have cluttering up the hallways?

The_Morrigan

mglc021 wrote: »

We’re renting an apartment, for the last 9 months we kept our daughter’s buggy on the corridor, outside the door.
The corridor is wide enough, the buggy does not take up much space, neither it blocks anything.
Today, the managing company sent us a letter saying that we’re breaching Health & Safety regulations and if we continue to keep the buggy outside “it will be removed without any notice”.

Firstly, can they “remove” it?
Is it not stealing?

Secondly, if there is any law regulating such a thing, where to look for it?
thanks

Yes they can remove it and no it is not stealing as you've abandoned the item on their property.
The management 'house rules' would likely include a section about not leaving items in the communal areas - buggys/bikes/toys/shoes etc, as they pose a risk in the event of an emergency.
Store the buggy in your apartment in future.

Pawwed Rig

If everyone was to do the same thing the apartment block would be completely cluttered with bicycles, old washing machines, rubbish bags etc in no time. Management company is absolutely correct in this imho.

We have the same issue in that we had to lug our pram up 2 flights of steps everyday to get to the apartment. Luckily we are in a small development and one of the owner occupiers (via the mgt co.) gave us access to a press on the ground floor to store ours in. Wouldn't have dreamt of leaving it in the corridor though as one of the neighbours had stuff stored outside his door for over a year and it annoyed the hell out of me.

deandean

This says it all about the crap design of apartment blocks in Ireland.

In most countries on the continent (Austria, Germany etc) there is a 'pram room' at groundfloor level, for your pram.

And a 'party room' which you can book for your kid's birthday party.

And a secure bicycle area where your bike won't get nicked.

etc etc.

Albeit with higher management company charges.

Grandpa Hassan

I have to echo the others I'm afraid OP. You shouldn't be keeping stuff in the corridor and the management company are correct to threaten to remove it. I'm sure you wouldn't be thrilled if your neighbors decided to keep their bikes in the corridor outside your flat.

mglc021

Thanks everyone for the input.
I see your point with keeping the corridor tidy.
Anyway, I spoke with my better half and the buggy has been relocated

Diane Selwyn

deandean wrote: »

This says it all about the crap design of apartment blocks in Ireland.

In most countries on the continent (Austria, Germany etc) there is a 'pram room' at groundfloor level, for your pram.

And a 'party room' which you can book for your kid's birthday party.

And a secure bicycle area where your bike won't get nicked.

etc etc.

Albeit with higher management company charges.

I rented in a building in Dublin that had a dedicated indoor space for bikes/buggies/whatever - not a corridor but a storage area that suited the job. It wasn't actually a purpose built apartment but a converted Georgian building. There was no communal party room though.

Greenmachine

Diane Selwyn wrote: »

I rented in a building in Dublin that had a dedicated indoor space for bikes/buggies/whatever - not a corridor but a storage area that suited the job. It wasn't actually a purpose built apartment but a converted Georgian building. There was no communal party room though.

In parts of northern europe, most apartment have ancilliary services in the basement like parking spaces, communal drying areas for laundry, and individual storage bays. I have never seen anything even close to this in ireland.

keith16

Greenmachine wrote: »

In parts of northern europe, most apartment have ancilliary services in the basement like parking spaces, communal drying areas for laundry, and individual storage bays. I have never seen anything even close to this in ireland.

Nope, doesn't exist. Everyone harps on about the need for high density living, which has its merits, but there is no concept of what good communal living looks like. It's almost designed to be adversarial.

- Nothing on balconies
- Child / family unfriendly
- Gardens / green areas for the sake of it - no kids running / games

All very superficial IMO.

mglc021

Greenmachine wrote: »

In parts of northern europe, most apartment have ancilliary services in the basement like parking spaces, communal drying areas for laundry, and individual storage bays. I have never seen anything even close to this in ireland.

All of this (well, except parking) is pretty much a standard all over Europe.
I am not sure whats Dublin like but Cork is years behind continental Europe. There is only one or two decent complex apartments buildings with amenities designed to make life easier and happier...

Santa Cruz

deandean wrote: »

This says it all about the crap design of apartment blocks in Ireland.

In most countries on the continent (Austria, Germany etc) there is a 'pram room' at groundfloor level, for your pram.

And a 'party room' which you can book for your kid's birthday party.

And a secure bicycle area where your bike won't get nicked.

etc etc.

Albeit with higher management company charges.

Very true. In the US, Scandanavia they have designed apartments for long term living not long term renting to young people. Independent storage areas for unused furniture, golf clubs, prams etc. Laundry facilities, Concierge/janitor service. Social room etc.

awec

I imagine the apartments themselves are bigger too if they are designed for long term living?

We're all about squeezing as many apartments in to a space as possible here. Make them small, with second bedrooms that you couldn't swing a cat in. No storage space cause that would take up valuable space that could be used to build another undersized apartment.

Pawwed Rig

awec wrote: »

I imagine the apartments themselves are bigger too if they are designed for long term living?

We're all about squeezing as many apartments in to a space as possible here. Make them small, with second bedrooms that you couldn't swing a cat in. No storage space cause that would take up valuable space that could be used to build another undersized apartment.

But all with 2 bathrooms for some reason :rolleyes:

awec

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

But all with 2 bathrooms for some reason :rolleyes:

Yea, though one of the bathrooms often is tiny.

Tiny kitchens seems to be another popular one.

I viewed a place where the second bedroom had a single bed and bedside cabinet in it and you actually wouldn't be able to fit any other furniture in it. This was a newish apartment too in a purpose build apartment complex (i.e. not a renovated house).

The second bathroom would have had you having to shuffle sideways past the toilet to get to the shower it was that narrow. There would have been room for absolutely no storage in the bathroom at all - shower, sink and toilet. No cupboards, no shelf.

athtrasna

Going closer to the OP 's issue, the vast majority of apartment dwellers grew up in houses and are not conditioned for high density living. Stuff being left in corridors, noisy parties, fire doors being propped open, in my experience people don't think about how their actions impact others in the block. Consideration is very important in apartment life. That the OP didn't realise that leaving the buggy outside potentially put others in danger is just one example of the lack of awareness of the issues that come with apartment living.

We can bemoan the lack of storage but the apartments we choose to live in are what they are, we need to deal with what we have.

Lantus

market forces don't create environments that humans can benefit from and enjoy long term, they are only interested in he monetary return which is typically short term and at the expense of any long term solution or peoples wellbeing.

large scale apartments could be hugely desirable spaces with ample room, integrated storage systems for bikes, families, drying rooms, parking, and even built across different levels with 4 or 5 large bedrooms and large balconies with advanced materials energy systems to make them sustainable and long term solutions. There's not much profit in that though.

What sort of a supposedly intelligent species builds rabbit hutches to house men, women and children for 50-100+ years just so one person can accumulate vast sums of money? mmmmmm?

syklops

athtrasna wrote: »

Going closer to the OP 's issue, the vast majority of apartment dwellers grew up in houses and are not conditioned for high density living. Stuff being left in corridors, noisy parties, fire doors being propped open, in my experience people don't think about how their actions impact others in the block. Consideration is very important in apartment life. That the OP didn't realise that leaving the buggy outside potentially put others in danger is just one example of the lack of awareness of the issues that come with apartment living.

We can bemoan the lack of storage but the apartments we choose to live in are what they are, we need to deal with what we have.

To be honest, a lack of consideration for others is an Irish thing. Its got nothing to do with not being conditioned for apartment living. For whatever reason large segments of our populace just don't give a fudge about anyone else but themselves. Sad, but thats the reality.

I live in one of the better apartment buildings in Dublin, in that it was designed and is managed with long term living in mind. We have underground parking, residents only gym, well kept green areas etc. However we still don't have any storage space. The apartment is pretty small, kitchen is tiny, and there was a note on the notice board last night stating anyone seen drying clothes on the balconies will be fined 250 euro. Well done guys. You were nearly there. In 10 years time they will be dealing with damp because people have been drying clothes in their rooms. :rolleyes:

Pawwed Rig

It is the councils that are the problem. They are the ones that determine the planning, minimum standards and bye laws of apartment blocks. The developer is there to make money and will try and make as much as they can. Every development you see has to go through a onerous planning process where the council will try and make sure there are not too many floors and as few apartments as possible never mind the requirement for a social housing allocation. They don't give a crap about facilities for private apartment blocks. When you compare this to the council developments with play grounds, basketball courts, football goals you would wonder.
The fact is they do not consider apartments as long term dwellings. They are for 20 somethings to live in before they get married and buy a house in the suburbs.

Grandpa Hassan

I think that there is a lot of comparing apples and oranges here. The kind of apartments on the continent with the space and amenities that are being discussed, are largely in huge old buildings with spacious hallways and high ceilings. I regularly stay in an apartment in Berlin in such a building, and there are none in Ireland that are similar. The Germans and the French have just built bigger, grander buildings for the last hundred years or more. And these exist in such large volumes that there is not the pressure for new build flats

OK....there were 3 or 4 years in Ireland when absolutely terrible flats were built, but in my experience the kind of flats being built post-crash are not dissimilar to new-build flats in Berlin or Paris or anywhere.

An old brick built Berlin mansion block is not comparable to anything built in Ireland in a similar period.

Mrs OBumble

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

It is the councils that are the problem. They are the ones that determine the planning, minimum standards and bye laws of apartment blocks.

In fairness, there needs to be a balance.

We need some apartments for students and 20-somethings who won't live there long term. And some for poorer people who cannot afford fancy apartments. (Compare the current situation where some perfectly good bedsits cannot be used to house now-homeless consenting adults, because middle class bureaucrats consider that they need their own bathroom.)

But overall I'd say that it's not the apartments themselves that are too small, it's the lack of out-of-apartment facilities that's the issue.


NB If you want to see what small apartments really look like, visit some city-dwellers in Seoul.

conorhal

deandean wrote: »

This says it all about the crap design of apartment blocks in Ireland.

In most countries on the continent (Austria, Germany etc) there is a 'pram room' at groundfloor level, for your pram.

And a 'party room' which you can book for your kid's birthday party.

And a secure bicycle area where your bike won't get nicked.

etc etc.

Albeit with higher management company charges.

Frankly I'd happily settle for a cupbord INSIDE an apartment.
I looked at a few apartments during the boom, and I was kind of shocked that in many of then there wasn't even a space where so much as a hoover could be stored.
Our planners need a good kick up the arse. There should be a minimum storage space requirement in planning permissions.

As for the OP's quandry, it beggars belief how people treat common spaces doesn't it? They had to remove the bins from the public areas in one of the blocks where I rent because of people putting dirty nappies into them and stinking out the corridors. A corridor isn't a dump or a store room, don't treat it as such.

Paulw

I really like my apartment. I have storage space for bike/buggy under the stairs. My "box room" is large enough, and my main and 2nd bedroom both have built in wardrobes. My apartment is larger that most 3 bed houses in the area.

The unit was built in 2005/2006, so the height of the boom. It is a solid building, with concrete floors and walls, so sound doesn't travel much.

Maybe I was lucky, but this was the best building that I found when I was looking.

Nothing is stored in the communal hall, so we're all fine.

L1011

Paulw wrote: »

I really like my apartment. I have storage space for bike/buggy under the stairs. My "box room" is large enough, and my main and 2nd bedroom both have built in wardrobes. My apartment is larger that most 3 bed houses in the area.

The unit was built in 2005/2006, so the height of the boom. It is a solid building, with concrete floors and walls, so sound doesn't travel much.

Maybe I was lucky, but this was the best building that I found when I was looking.

Nothing is stored in the communal hall, so we're all fine.

There were one or two developers who built properly sized apartments even at the height of the boom (Wallace, apparently; although not paying your VAT does help the auld profit margins...). Unfortunately there were far more shoeboxes than properly sized ones.

Greenmachine

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

In fairness, there needs to be a balance.

We need some apartments for students and 20-somethings who won't live there long term. And some for poorer people who cannot afford fancy apartments. (Compare the current situation where some perfectly good bedsits cannot be used to house now-homeless consenting adults, because middle class bureaucrats consider that they need their own bathroom.)

But overall I'd say that it's not the apartments themselves that are too small, it's the lack of out-of-apartment facilities that's the issue.


NB If you want to see what small apartments really look like, visit some city-dwellers in Seoul.

I have seen many such bedsits on viewings and with friends living in them. They are disgusting f'ing dumps. I would sooner stay in a hostel than some of those places.

Ray Palmer

What I find so odd about people talking about the magical properties in central Europe. Having being in apartments in Europe I can say people are selectively blind. Yes Germany and France have great apartments but they also have apartments very like ours. In Spain and Italy I have seen incredibly small apartments that wouldn't be legal here.
Ireland had to play catch up and provide apartments as housing stock was mostly 3 bed semis and after that it was mostly large old houses converted (mostly Georgian houses)
The issue isn't with councils but planning regulations which are not far off modern European standards and actually better on some issues.
The main reason central Europe has so many large apartments was they were built with funds given after WWII due to mass destruction of the stock they did have. It is like complaining that RTE is not as good as the BBC completely missing reality

pwurple

It is about expense. When i was in the market to buy a city apartment, I was shown loads of identikit apartments in identikit blocks. I wanted something with high ceilings, in a good location, decent size rooms, soundproofed (hate hearing my neighbours in flats!) and some storage. I eventually bought something in the city center which was previously a niteclub, and refurbed it into an apartment. Worked out pretty well for what I wanted while I lived there, and since I started leasing that place it has never been empty for more than a few days between tenants. But it will never ever be worth what I spent on it.

There are loads of these buildings around in cities, old cinemas, above shops, etc. buildings with a bit of history, plenty of space, but they all lie empty and start to rot away. Meanwhile, dedicated blocks of low ceiling ones are put up. I guess it's cheaper to build the cardboard ones, than repair the older solid ones.

If I had a solid chunk of money, I'd love to resurrect some more of these, and make them livable... But that's my philanthropic side talking, the business-person in me says "are you nuts?".

missmyler

I must have had a great builder. Also in apt block built during the boom. Difference is every apt has utility room, large bedrooms, built in wardrobes, hallway storage and our own individual shed outside. It's a 2 x bed at over 1,000 sq ft. I also have a small garden being at ground floor

All of my friends "stuck in" apts say they cannot wait to move out but I never feel like that. My neighbours say the same, no need to move. The extra thought put in to our accomodation means that we look at it as a long term place to live and not as a stop gap.

athtrasna

I'm the same, I live in a 3 bed apartment that is bigger (and has an extra bathroom) than my sister's 3 bed semi. Kitchen & sitting room almost 20 feet long each, balcony about the size of an average room...hall storage. Good builders existed. So do good owners and residents. Consideration is key.

Svalbard

I've just moved into a new apartment and there is a buggy permanently parked outside the apartment directly opposite. It wasn't there when I viewed the apt unfortunately (thought it's presence alone wouldn't have put me off I suppose).
Worse than the buggy, one hot day a bag of smelly rubbish was left outside the door all day. The next day it was 2 boxes of empty bottles.
It's more than annoying, I actually feel like it's infringing on my enjoyment of my apartment, like the neighbors feel the corridor is 'theirs'.
I really want to make a complaint but it will be obvious it came from me - I'm the only other apartment down that corridor and I have just moved in.
I just hope they read boards!!!

on_my_oe

Svalbard wrote: »

I really want to make a complaint but it will be obvious it came from me - I'm the only other apartment down that corridor and I have just moved in.
I just hope they read boards!!!

You're going to need to stand up for yourself, knock in the door and have a chat.

Svalbard

Well yeah, obvs.
But I don't like confrontation, I'm Irish!

on_my_oe

Svalbard wrote: »

Well yeah, obvs.
But I don't like confrontation, I'm Irish!

I think it might be catching - neither me nor the OH are Irish born (although the OH is now NiIrish), and he sends the missus to deal with it :rolleyes: I'm sure he was more assertive when we first met...

Seriously though, a gentle word could be all you need - have you seen your neighbours? Are they scary looking? Alternatively a chat to the managing agent - if you're lucky they'll assume the building cleaners (if you have them) flagged it.

madrabui

Svalbard wrote: »

Well yeah, obvs.
But I don't like confrontation, I'm Irish!

To avoid targeting a particular apartment, a general notice to everyone can be sent from the management company/residents association.

At least then your neighbour will have then been forewarned.

Tarzana

keith16 wrote: »

Nope, doesn't exist. Everyone harps on about the need for high density living, which has its merits, but there is no concept of what good communal living looks like. It's almost designed to be adversarial.

- Nothing on balconies

This one gets on my nerves, well a blanket ban at any rate. Even satellite dishes are a lot less ugly than they used to be, you can get nice neat little ones now in neutral, matte colours or black. But no, blanket ban! :mad:

athtrasna

Tarzana wrote: »

This one gets on my nerves, well a blanket ban at any rate. Even satellite dishes are a lot less ugly than they used to be, you can get nice neat little ones now in neutral, matte colours or black. But no, blanket ban! :mad:

That's a planning permission issue for most developments.

Tarzana

awec wrote: »

I imagine the apartments themselves are bigger too if they are designed for long term living?

We're all about squeezing as many apartments in to a space as possible here. Make them small, with second bedrooms that you couldn't swing a cat in. No storage space cause that would take up valuable space that could be used to build another undersized apartment.

Depressingly true, but sometimes it 'sjust poor planning of the space within the apartment. I lived in one with a cupboard sized bathroom but three large bedrooms and a hallway that didn't need to be as big as it was. The rooms and hallway could easier have donated space to the bathroom.

Tarzana

athtrasna wrote: »

That's a planning permission issue for most developments.

It really needs review. It's the same in the UK. I don't, is it a kind of snobbery towards dishes? I know in the UK that dishes are seen as downmarket, and an area is judged on their prevalence.

What is the planning issue exactly? Is it down to appearance? If so, it needs to be updated, as like I said, many are quite tasteful now.

keith16

athtrasna wrote: »

That's a planning permission issue for most developments.

Planning laws are stuck in the dark ages.

Tarzana

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

But all with 2 bathrooms for some reason :rolleyes:

I ain't never been in an apartment with two bathrooms in Ireland. And the bathrooms in most seem to be tiny.

P_1

keith16 wrote: »

Nope, doesn't exist. Everyone harps on about the need for high density living, which has its merits, but there is no concept of what good communal living looks like. It's almost designed to be adversarial.

- Nothing on balconies
- Child / family unfriendly
- Gardens / green areas for the sake of it - no kids running / games

All very superficial IMO.

I must agree with this. Apartments are there to be lived in not to look pretty. Drying washing on the balcony should be encouraged rather than discouraged, it saves energy and I dread to think of the mould problems that some apartments will have down the years because of the balcony drying bans.

Pro Hoc Vice

Greenmachine wrote: »

In parts of northern europe, most apartment have ancilliary services in the basement like parking spaces, communal drying areas for laundry, and individual storage bays. I have never seen anything even close to this in ireland.

I know of an apartment complex in ireland with basement parking 2 spaces for each apartment, and a storage room for each apartment. No drying area for laundry but each apartment has a washer dryer, large one acre internal garden, very private and secure.

Tarzana

syklops wrote: »

You were nearly there. In 10 years time they will be dealing with damp because people have been drying clothes in their rooms. :rolleyes:

Thank you. And then tenants lost parts of their deposits due to this. My apartment has a washer/drier but the drier component is shocking, as is the way with washer/driers. So, a clothes horse is a must, as the leccy bills would be out of control otherwise. I'm in a really well insulated third floor apartment so our clothes dry quickly. Because of this, damp likely won't be an issue for us. But most apartments in Ireland seem to be terribly insulated and cold.

Tarzana

Paulw wrote: »

I really like my apartment. I have storage space for bike/buggy under the stairs. My "box room" is large enough, and my main and 2nd bedroom both have built in wardrobes. My apartment is larger that most 3 bed houses in the area.

The unit was built in 2005/2006, so the height of the boom. It is a solid building, with concrete floors and walls, so sound doesn't travel much.

Maybe I was lucky, but this was the best building that I found when I was looking.

Nothing is stored in the communal hall, so we're all fine.

I guess even in the boom, there were builders, architects and engineers who cared about their craft and not the lowest common denominator.

on_my_oe

I'm sorry, but I think driving past an apartment block with balconies full of washing drying lacks trashy, and don't get me started on people tying bits of bamboo to their balcony.

Balconies should be coloured dark tinted glass or similar, to hide the usual crap that people have on their balcony, with a drying box at one end (phone box sized) where there would be a double or triple layer of drying racks contained inside the dark glass.

P_1

on_my_oe wrote: »

I'm sorry, but I think driving past an apartment block with balconies full of washing drying lacks trashy, and don't get me started on people tying bits of bamboo to their balcony.

Balconies should be coloured dark tinted glass or similar, to hide the usual crap that people have on their balcony, with a drying box at one end (phone box sized) where there would be a double or triple layer of drying racks contained inside the dark glass.

Yes but somebody's apartment is for them to live in, not to please your visual tastes. Would you consider a washing line in a back garden to be tacky?

athtrasna

Tarzana wrote: »

I ain't never been in an apartment with two bathrooms in Ireland. And the bathrooms in most seem to be tiny.

Mine has two, one a decent size