Those damn Muslims!!

Einhard

So, everywhere I look these days there's animosity towards Muslims. A thread is started about two Scottish people throwing bacon into a mosque, and within a few minutes we have posts criticising Muslims. Because who doesn't like blaming the victim, eh?

So as a person who has actually had experiences with Muslims, as opposed to the haters who condemn an entire religion and its billion adhernats based on what they read in the Daily Mail or whatever, I thought I should try and add some balance and set the record straight so to speak.

I did a tour of the Middle East about ten years ago. Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. I remember being lost in Damascus and having no idea how to get back to my camp. A car pulled up and two guys asked me was I lost. I told them that I was, and they told me to hop in the car and they'd sort me out. At the time, the prevailing mood amongst some was that Muslims were all of a certain sort, and I had actually been advised not to even do the tour because of all the Muslims. I'd be bombed, beheaded, whatever. The majority weren't advising this, but they were a small but significant and vocal minority. As is today. So I was somewhat wary about hopping in the car. I did anyway, and they drove me miles out of their way to my camp site, chatting away as we went along. I tried to shove some money their way after, and they not only refused but were genuinely surprised that I'd feel the need to do such a thing. They were Muslim. Nicest guys ever.

Later in the same trip we visited Petra. We were wandering around for hours and then it started lashing rain. We were far from the main tourist trail and made for the entrance but the rain was so bad it made things really difficult. Then this woman came out of nowhere and gesturd for us to come with her. We followed her anyway, and it turned out she was semi-nomadic and lived for part of the year in a cave in the Petra "complex". She brought us to this home, and together with her husband, made us tea and chatted with us for an hour until the rain stopped. We hadn't a clue what they were saying and vice versa, but we made sense of things with hand gestures and the like. When we left they gave us this bread stuff and were shaking hands and hugging all around. This family had next to nothing in terms of money and goods yet they took us in, fed and watered us, and hung out with us. She didn't try to sell us anything or look for anything; she did it because she felt it was the right thing to do. And again, she was a Muslim.

Don't get me wrong, we met some a**hole Muslims on the trip. But none of them were a**holes because they were Muslim; they were a**holes because they were a**holes. But for some strange reason, a**hole Christians are assholes and a**hole Muslims are Muslim. Go figure.

Anyways, I didn't have much interaction with Muslims after the trip until I moved to the UAE two years ago. I remember the night before I left I posted a picture of a pint I was having and mourned the fact that thi was the last alcoholic beverage I'd be having for a while. 48 hours later I was in the irish pub in Abu Dhabi knocking some back. And it's been thus ever since. Muslims shouldn't drink- it should be anathema to them. Yet over here drink is freely available, and many of Muslim friends indulge in it. Never ever have I felt judged for drinking. Ramadan starts this weekend. All Muslims should refrain from eating or drinking even water until sunrise- yet in this holiest of Muslim months, bars and off licences are still open. When it comes to non-Muslims and Ramadan, we've basically been told that we can do what we want, but it would be nice if we didn't eat and drink in their faces.

I know that there's a train of thought in the non-Muslim world that the Koran somehow inculcates extremism. The Koran says this, so all Muslims are that. Oft spouted by Koranic scholars who have never actually read the Koran. Hmmm. I'm a teacher here. I teach Muslim kids. Average age is 11. They're crazy and annoying and nd loony and drive me crazy with their shoite. Some of them pray at the appointed time; most don't. But the thing that has struck me about them is that they're exactly like every other bunch of kids I've ever taught. There's not a fundamentalist bone in their body. Sure, some might turn out to be fundamentalists maybe, but that's not because they're Muslim. Or else all Muslims would be fundamentalist. And they're not. Theyre just normal.

I know people are gonna be like, TL;DR man, and I don't blame them. It is long. And probably of no revelance to anything. But I see too much general Muslim bashing in the Western papers, and too much Muslim bashing from people who have never even met a Muslim. And I don't think it's too much that I write a long boring post about how Muslims are just like everyone else for the most part. That's the way it is.

solomafioso

tl;dr Muslims. Great bunch of lads.

Shakespeare's Sister

Don't think I've met any. My friend in London has some good muslim friends all right though.

Jeez I sound like a right innocent.

jellyboy

Well said op ..

i concur with your writing and expressions of experiences contained in your post …

I'm giving it 5 posts before it kicks off…

The King of Moo

They should appreciate living in a country where people are free to throw offending meats into religious buildings!

Try going over there and complain about someone throwing a hake at a church on a Friday and see what happens blah blah blah...

solomafioso

jellyboy wrote: »

I'm giving it 5 posts before it kicks off…

It's all "Hitler this", and "Hitler that" around here. You can't move for the "Hitlers".

/good oul Godwin's Law.

Arthur Beesley

They don't seem to have much of a sense of humour when it comes to religion anyway.

solomafioso

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

They don't seem to have much of a sense of honour when it comes to religion anyway.

...or humour.

The King of Moo

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

They don't seem to have much of a sense of honour when it comes to religion anyway.

And they all have four wives, the feckers!

The Th!ng

In Jihadistan the favourite dish is pork marinated in whiskey.

Arthur Beesley

solomafioso wrote: »

...or humour.

Indeed, fixed.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

What dya expect? Being Muslim is not all cruelty to animals and summercamps in Tripoli.

There's downsides to it too.

The King of Moo

All I'm saying is, if they come over here, they have to adapt to our culture, not vice versa. It's all gone too far with the PC... in the schools now even!... taxpayer's money... mosque... religion of peace?

Arthur Beesley

Duracell Bunny wrote: »

What dya expect? Being Muslim is not all cruelty to animals and summercamps in Tripoli.

There's downsides to it too.

Like the virgins in heaven when they blow themselves up.

Tail Docker

Very true Op, I heard of a woman who used to get stoned with them and everything, a great bunch of lads.

Arthur Beesley

The King of Moo wrote: »

All I'm saying is, if they come over here, they have to adapt to our culture, not vice versa. It's all gone too far with the PC... in the schools now even!... taxpayer's money... mosque... religion of peace?

Yeah, all this shiite about burkas and whatever. If they want to wear that stuff then stay in a Muslim country.

Pac1Man

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Like the virgins in heaven when they blow themselves up.

There will be blood everywhere either way. Like an explosion at a jam factory.

Arthur Beesley

Tail Docker wrote: »

Very true Op, I heard of a woman who used to get stoned with them and everything, a great bunch of lads.

With them or by them?

Tail Docker

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

With them or by them?

Both. They kinda ignored the whole "let he who is without" bit. The divils.

solomafioso

I think OP has a great point though and something I've believed for a while.

Religion shouldn't factor when 'reading someone by their cover'. If I meet you and a while in to a conversation you start spouting on about religious propaganda, how your religion is better / different and / or mistreats people because of their sex or their way of life. Then get the f*ck away from me.

I think rule number one of all religions should be "Don't be a c*nt". Not "obey and fear some makey upey man-made deity for you to kill another person in the name of" (I'm not bashing Islam / Muslims....Crusades anyone?...and now I have Rage Against The Machine in my head!)

Tail Docker

I kinda noticed there was a preponderance of "lad" in the OP. Mainly as they'd shave off the womans burka and make her marry Larry Murphy if she dared speak to an Einhard. I have about 5% tolerance for Mohammedans, mainly as their avowed mission is to assimilate me and mine, or do me in if I fail to comply. I'm funny like that.

Einhard

Tail Docker wrote: »

I kinda noticed there was a preponderance of "lad" in the OP. Mainly as they'd shave off the womans burka and make her marry Larry Murphy if she dared speak to an Einhard. I have about 5% tolerance for Mohammedans, mainly as their avowed mission is to assimilate me and mine, or do me in if I fail to comply. I'm funny like that.

You are kinda funny in fairness.


And scary.

Tail Docker

Einhard wrote: »

You are kinda funny in fairness.


And scary.

I'm mainly cynical and freedom loving. They're big on rules, I tend to subvert.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Tail Docker wrote: »

I kinda noticed there was a preponderance of "lad" in the OP. Mainly as they'd shave off the womans burka and make her marry Larry Murphy if she dared speak to an Einhard. I have about 5% tolerance for Mohammedans, mainly as their avowed mission is to assimilate me and mine, or do me in if I fail to comply. I'm funny like that.

'Lad' that's a real Liverpool expression.

It's kinda like where two blokes are talking over a walky talkie, and they say "over" once they're finished speaking.

I was talking to a liverpudlian once before, and once I stopped talking he didn't give a response for about 30secs, until I'd said "lad?" :eek:

P_1

The only encounter (if you want to use that word, i mean they're not aliens ffs) I've had with a muslim was with an old work colleague of mine from Pakistan. To say that the man is a gentleman is an understatement.

At the end of the day no matter what religion you do or don't follow, an ass will always be an ass and a gent will always be a gent.

Einhard

Tail Docker wrote: »

I'm mainly cynical and freedom loving. They're big on rules, I tend to subvert.

You legend.

Tail Docker

P_1 wrote: »

The only encounter (if you want to use that word, i mean they're not aliens ffs) I've had with a muslim was with an old work colleague of mine from Pakistan. To say that the man is a gentleman is an understatement.

At the end of the day no matter what religion you do or don't follow, an ass will always be an ass and a gent will always be a gent.

I grew up in London, in a mixed poverty stricken Catholic/Muslim area. I had loads of moderate Muslim friends. The Orthodox ones, not so much. They'd a taliban on their kids mixing with infidels. It coloured my view a bit.

Tail Docker

Einhard wrote: »

You legend.

You calling me a foot? :pac:

lisaface

One thing that irked me about your post , the spelling of the word 'quran'. You're there two years ,and yet you still cannot spell it properly.

I agree that there is an uprising of Muslim bashing. It's like a new trend ,however I do agree with king of moo;

The King of Moo wrote: »

All I'm saying is, if they come over here, they have to adapt to our culture, not vice versa. It's all gone too far with the PC... in the schools now even!... taxpayer's money... mosque... religion of peace?

I'm so sick of people sticking the knife in when I complain about the PC 'trend', I cannot open my mouth for fear someone calls me a 'racist' ,for disliking the muslim religion. I hate all f*cking religions. All war and the false pretense that some invisible floating gob****e in the sky is going to 'save you' ,once you die. **** off.

In the ideal world ,religion wouldn't exist! It causes more harm than good, bit ironic given most of them are there to 'do good'. I am tired of the uneducated folk confusing religious bashing and race bashing. White muslims exist people, just like black christians exist ,or are we going to continue to play the fear card when it comes to having someone disagree with your lifestyle. I honestly think religion is a lifestyle choice at this stage, seeing as most catholics (yes im looking at you holy-joe irish catholics here!) ,don't even follow the entire 'form'.

okay /rantover.

urabell

tl;dr

religion of peace (except in every country where there is a muslim majority)

Einhard

lisaface wrote: »

One thing that irked me about your post , the spelling of the word 'quran'. You're there two years ,and yet you still cannot spell it properly.

I can. But most peoeple spell it Koran, so I do too. And to spell it properly it would have to be in Arabic.

Einhard

urabell wrote: »

tl;dr

religion of peace (except in every country where there is a muslim majority)

No. I think the abbreviation you're looking for is tl; drsimoivi

Too long; didn't read so inserted my own ignorant view instead.

Tail Docker

Einhard wrote: »

No. I think the abbreviation you're looking for is tl; drsimoivi

Too long; didn't read so inserted my own ignorant view instead.

Yus. They love us too. You nip over to the Middle east and have a natter about what a great bunch of lads we are and how they should be tolerant of us or else they are ignorant feckers. Report back on your findings. Or don't bother, we'll probably be able to see the final cut on youtube.

hjkl

Tail Docker wrote: »

I'm mainly cynical and freedom loving. They're big on rules, I tend to subvert.

Damn muslims coming over here, taking our freedom. I say we ban them from wearing the clothes they want, that'll learn the freedom hating bastards. :rolleyes:

Einhard

Tail Docker wrote: »

Yus. They love us too. You nip over to the Middle east and have a natter about what a great bunch of lads we are and how they should be tolerant of us or else they are ignorant feckers. Report back on your findings. Or don't bother, we'll probably be able to see the final cut on youtube.

I live in the Middle East.



It's no great surprise that you didn't actually read my original post before you started blathering. I imagine you were horrendously disappointed to find that the thread title doesn't actually correspond to the opening post. Sorry about that.

LETHAL LADY

Wouldn't have had as many encounters with Muslim folks like you've had OP, apart from when I was in college or in hospital.
There was two Muslim men in my class in college and when it came joining in with class groups etc and were extremely friendly and polite , but they always chose to sit on their own during breaks, so it was hard to get to know them really.
It was a full class of mature students and they were invited from day one to join us, but they always refused.
Maybe I'm showing my ignorance but why would they not join their fellow classmates during breaks?

pablo128

Tail Docker wrote: »

Both. They kinda ignored the whole "let he who is without" bit. The divils.

"The Koran says don't drink alcohol or eat pork. It says nothing about marijuana." - straight from the mouth of a Pakistani guy I used to work with. And he was a practising Muslim. Great cricket player too. He's now an accountant in Canada.

P_1

Tail Docker wrote: »

Yus. They love us too. You nip over to the Middle east and have a natter about what a great bunch of lads we are and how they should be tolerant of us or else they are ignorant feckers. Report back on your findings. Or don't bother, we'll probably be able to see the final cut on youtube.

In fairness when the majority of the reports you hear about a place are headlines about the hardline nutters chances are you're more than likely to assume that the place is full of hardline nutters. The fact that the media loves to create boogymen also doesn't help.

solomafioso

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

Maybe I'm showing my ignorance but why would they not join their fellow classmates during breaks?

Could be a number of things.

Reverse the situation though and you might see similar results. I.E. two lads who are from the same area / speak the same language, not wanting to hang out with older students. So, a class full of (insert any other nationality here), and two Irish lads keeping to themselves.

Could be social awkwardness...

Tail Docker

Einhard wrote: »

I live in the Middle East.



It's no great surprise that you didn't actually read my original post before you started blathering. I imagine you were horrendously disappointed to find that the thread title doesn't actually correspond to the opening post. Sorry about that.

I read every word as it happens. You're in an ex-pats enclave. Sipping gin. Pop out into the sticks with your jazzy, happy clappy views, see how you get on. Dress up as a woman for the craic, try wearing your favorite short skirt. And driving. or walking in front of your husband. A male experience of the Muslim world stands a good chance of being at odds with a womans.

grimbergen

It's always amazing that people who dislike muslims the most have never actually visited a muslim country.

I've been all around the middle east and beyond - in my experience of having visited all the continents arab/muslim countries are the warmest and friendliest in the world. Shame about the hardcore amongst their religion

Pawn

Einhard wrote: »

They were Muslim. Nicest guys ever.

I wonder what would your (hypothetical) wife said about them if she was lost

urabell

Einhard wrote: »

No. I think the abbreviation you're looking for is tl; drsimoivi

Too long; didn't read so inserted my own ignorant view instead.

If someone is a true muslim and follows the Quran and Sharia law then their position is indefensible, the best you can do is provide some anecdotal evidence of muslim men not doing you any harm simply by crossing your path or other examples of lay muslims who aren't the target of anyone's disdain to begin with.

urabell

grimbergen wrote: »

It's always amazing that people who dislike muslims the most have never actually visited a muslim country.

I've been all around the middle east and beyond - in my experience of having visited all the continents arab/muslim countries are the warmest and friendliest in the world. Shame about the hardcore amongst their religion

Unfortunately I like to travel with a group of friends and seeing as some of them are women/ LGBT they tend to pick countries where they won't be treated as second class citizens or worse when we sit down to decide where to go.

Einhard

Tail Docker wrote: »

I read every word as it happens. You're in an ex-pats enclave. Sipping gin. Pop out into the sticks with your jazzy, happy clappy views, see how you get on. Dress up as a woman for the craic, try wearing your favorite short skirt. And driving. or walking in front of your husband.

LOL you craic me up. I teach Muslims. I'm one of four Western teachers in a school of 40 teachers. Principal, vice principal are Muslim. I hang around with Muslims. You didn't read my original post. If you had, you wouldn't have advised me to visit the Midde East. Considering I point out in the OP that I live there.

It's funny, but practically everybody I know who has disdain for another group of people, be they Muslim or Polish or whatever, are generally almost entirely ignorant of that group of people. And you fit the bill perfectly.

Here's an idea...why don't you visit the Middle East and speak to normal Muslims? Instead of basing your views on hearsay and what you hear in whatever no doubt open and balanced media outlets you happen to subsrcibe to.

Einhard

urabell wrote: »

If someone is a true muslim and follows the Quran and Sharia law then their position is indefensible, the best you can do is provide some anecdotal evidence of muslim men not doing you any harm simply by crossing your path or other examples of lay muslims who aren't the target of anyone's disdain to begin with.

If someone is a true Christian and followed the Bible, then they'd stone people to death for playing American football. Something something something...

True story.

Einhard

urabell wrote: »

Unfortunately I like to travel with a group of friends and seeing as some of them are women/ LGBT they tend to pick countries where they won't be treated as second class citizens or worse when we sit down to decide where to go.

Maybe if they broadened their horizons somewhat they wouldn't be so ignorant as to classify all people and countries as the same? I have many female friends here and none would ever say they're second class citizens. In fact, those lucky mofos get free drinks at ladies nights when I have to pay for them. Discrimination I tells ye!!

It's telling though, that the posters who are criticising Muslims in this thread are those who have no actual exprience of Muslims, and refuse to do so. Quelle surprise, eh?

Tail Docker

Einhard wrote: »

LOL you craic me up. I teach Muslims. I'm one of four Western teachers in a school of 40 teachers. Principal, vice principal are Muslim. I hang around with Muslims. You didn't read my original post. If you had, you wouldn't have advised me to visit the Midde East. Considering I point out in the OP that I live there.

It's funny, but practically everybody I know who has disdain for another group of people, be they Muslim or Polish or whatever, are generally almost entirely ignorant of that group of people. And you fit the bill perfectly.

Here's an idea...why don't you visit the Middle East and speak to normal Muslims. Instead of basing your views on heresay and what you hear in whatever no doubt open and balanced media outlets you heppen to subsrcibe to.

Good for you. You have it sussed. Bang ahead. I'm gonna bet you don't start a thread for when things don't go so swimmingly. Like I said, you might not be waving the pom-poms so strong if you were a western woman. Or wore a crucifix in the wrong company.

urabell

Einhard wrote: »

If someone is a true Christian and followed the Bible, then they'd stone people to death for playing American football. Something something something...

True story.

Yeah agreed, Christianity is just as mental. You'll find less fanatics nowadays though. ;b-b-but Christians are just as bad' isn't an excuse for the evil of islam,

Any gods so monstrous as to drown my mother and father would never have my worship, I vowed. In King’s Landing, the High Septon would prattle at me of how all justice and goodness flowed from the Seven, but all I ever saw of either was made by men.[39] ”

- King Stannis Baratheon, First of his name, King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm

solomafioso

urabell wrote: »

- King Stannis Baratheon, First of his name, King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm

Did you just try to make a point by quoting a fictional character?! :pac:

Timmyctc

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

Wouldn't have had as many encounters with Muslim folks like you've had OP, apart from when I was in college or in hospital.
There was two Muslim men in my class in college and when it came joining in with class groups etc and were extremely friendly and polite , but they always chose to sit on their own during breaks, so it was hard to get to know them really.
It was a full class of mature students and they were invited from day one to join us, but they always refused.
Maybe I'm showing my ignorance but why would they not join their fellow classmates during breaks?

solomafioso wrote: »

Could be a number of things.

Reverse the situation though and you might see similar results. I.E. two lads who are from the same area / speak the same language, not wanting to hang out with older students. So, a class full of (insert any other nationality here), and two Irish lads keeping to themselves.

Could be social awkwardness...

Maybe they thought ye were all just a bag of dicks