Dog keeps breaking

Jimy1971

Hi lads,
Looking for a little advice.I have a 14 month old lab. She's flying it as far as training goes until I fire a shot. I can throw dummies out and she won't budge until shes told. But when I fire the dummy launcher,shes gone out like a rocket before the dummy hits the ground.If I leave the lead on her loosely and step on the end,she wont wove until I tell her.
How can I steady her??

Thanks in advance.

TriggerPL

Are you having this same problem when you fire a shot from gun dies she run off straight away in search of dummy even tho she hasn't seen one

Jimy1971

Yeah Trigger she will run in as soon as I fire.

sheebadog

Jimy1971 wrote: »

Hi lads,
Looking for a little advice.I have a 14 month old lab. She's flying it as far as training goes until I fire a shot. I can throw dummies out and she won't budge until shes told. But when I fire the dummy launcher,shes gone out like a rocket before the dummy hits the ground.If I leave the lead on her loosely and step on the end,she wont wove until I tell her.
How can I steady her??

Thanks in advance.

Starter pistol and a lead.
Put dog on lead and walk. Fire pistol. Drop dog. Repeat ad nauseum. QED.

Jimy1971

sheebadog wrote: »

Starter pistol and a lead.
Put dog on lead and walk. Fire pistol. Drop dog. Repeat ad nauseum. QED.

Using a dummy launcher lad but will try that.

fitzy_fitzy

Sounds like you need a second person with you with the launcher, so you can keep an eye on the dog. Trialling lab and spaniel men enforce steadiness by having group training with their dogs. If you have someone to train with it would help things no end.

TriggerPL

fitzy_fitzy wrote: »

Sounds like you need a second person with you with the launcher, so you can keep an eye on the dog. Trialling lab and spaniel men enforce steadiness by having group training with their dogs. If you have someone to train with it would help things no end.

Fell asleep and ya go there befor me , exactly second person with the launcher firing no dummy first off , 10 meters away , u standing at heel with your dog , watching every move , when shot is fired be rubbing dog on the head saying stay and slowly build up ,

If he continues to break don't be afraid to give the ear a tug to display ur not happy , try this over a week and get back to us .

PucaMama

TriggerPL wrote: »

Fell asleep and ya go there befor me , exactly second person with the launcher firing no dummy first off , 10 meters away , u standing at heel with your dog , watching every move , when shot is fired be rubbing dog on the head saying stay and slowly build up ,

If he continues to break don't be afraid to give the ear a tug to display ur not happy , try this over a week and get back to us .

Please don't be rough with the dog if she doesn't learn quick enough

TriggerPL

PucaMama wrote: »

Please don't be rough with the dog if she doesn't learn quick enough

Of course not , u don't need to pull ears off , just light tug to show ur displeased , and the min they start to get it right lots of patting and praise

jimf

when you start to see a big improvement don't overdo it 2/3 times per session and leave it at that

jimf

from what you say it sounds to me as if the dummy in flight is not the trigger for the bad behaviour

imho you need to get your dog rock steady to the shot first but to do this you will need the help of a second person as already advised

when you have this mastered and your dog is rock steady to the shot everytime then introduce the dummy again and please remember not every retrieve is for the dog pick an odd 1 yourself and bring it back to where the dog is

it probably expects a retrieve now on every shot which should not be a hard habit to break

I was always advised by the old brigade of trainers that the shot was the trigger to sit

sheebadog

jimf wrote: »

from what you say it sounds to me as if the dummy in flight is not the trigger for the bad behaviour

imho you need to get your dog rock steady to the shot first but to do this you will need the help of a second person as already advised

when you have this mastered and your dog is rock steady to the shot everytime then introduce the dummy again and please remember not every retrieve is for the dog pick an odd 1 yourself and bring it back to where the dog is

it probably expects a retrieve now on every shot which should not be a hard habit to break

I was always advised by the old brigade of trainers that the shot was the trigger to sit

Stop the retrieve. Now.

jimf

sheebadog wrote: »

Stop the retrieve. Now.

yes I would its the trigger if im reading this correct

if the dog is expecting a retrieve with every shot

I would never allow a dog a retrieve on every shot but that's my opinion im sure others on here would have other ideas

fitzy_fitzy

jimf wrote: »

yes I would its the trigger if im reading this correct



if the dog is expecting a retrieve with every shot



I would never allow a dog a retrieve on every shot but that's my opinion im sure others on here would have other ideas

100% percent correct. Every 4th or 5th retrieve you should pick yourself.

Especially if you want a steady dog.



Training dogs isnt rocket science, major requirements are time and patience.

Whats happens and this includes myself, is that when something isnt going according to plan with regards training . You begin to doubt yourself and your training methods. When in fact everything that you are doing is correct but some more time is needed or in Jim1971 case all that is needed is a second man.

Jimy1971

Thanks guys, heading out with the young lad after work this evening and letting him use the launcher. Will keep you up to date.

Jimy1971

Well lads, had her out a few times with the young lad firing the launcher instead of me and I have to say she's coming on great. Here's a short video taken this morning.

http://youtu.be/-UsM7lJDh7c

jimf

don't overdo it now jimy once she is getting it right a few times each session and soon you will find its second nature to her

looks like a lovely bitch best of luck with her and remember to pick an odd one yourself it really helps to steady them up

TriggerPL

Jimy1971 wrote: »

Well lads, had her out a few times with the young lad firing the launcher instead of me and I have to say she's coming on great. Here's a short video taken this morning.

http://youtu.be/-UsM7lJDh7c

Very gud ! 2 things tho ,

1 when ya cast your dog , don't be so quick to blow the whistle , give her all the time she needs to figure it out , she knows it's there just needs to work on her mark .

U can help this but sitting the dog by ur side and not sitting looking at you , your dog and u should be facing the direction the dummy is going , let her get a very gud mark .

And personally there isn't enough difference between ur recall and ur stop whistle blow .

2. Don't give her every retrieve , then the dummy is fired keep her sitting for about 30sec , then tell her stay and get in between her and the dummy , make ur way to the dummy while keeping eyes on her , pic the dummy and walk all the way back to her , then walk down the field to a different spot and go back to giving her a retrieve .

Hope u can understand this and well done came a long way in a week

rugermk3

Jimy1971 wrote: »

Hi lads,
Looking for a little advice.I have a 14 month old lab. She's flying it as far as training goes until I fire a shot. I can throw dummies out and she won't budge until shes told. But when I fire the dummy launcher,shes gone out like a rocket before the dummy hits the ground.If I leave the lead on her loosely and step on the end,she wont wove until I tell her.
How can I steady her??

Thanks in advance.

im having the very same problem , and im missing shots because of it , for example if a pigeon comes out of a tree flying low I cant take the shot because the dogs already there in front of the gun , head wrecking

TriggerPL

rugermk3 wrote: »

im having the very same problem , and im missing shots because of it , for example if a pigeon comes out of a tree flying low I cant take the shot because the dogs already there in front of the gun , head wrecking

It's head wrecking and completely ur own fault ! Applie the same methods as explained above , u need to go back to heel work !

Jimy1971

TriggerPL wrote: »

Very gud ! 2 things tho ,

1 when ya cast your dog , don't be so quick to blow the whistle , give her all the time she needs to figure it out , she knows it's there just needs to work on her mark .

U can help this but sitting the dog by ur side and not sitting looking at you , your dog and u should be facing the direction the dummy is going , let her get a very gud mark .

And personally there isn't enough difference between ur recall and ur stop whistle blow .

2. Don't give her every retrieve , then the dummy is fired keep her sitting for about 30sec , then tell her stay and get in between her and the dummy , make ur way to the dummy while keeping eyes on her , pic the dummy and walk all the way back to her , then walk down the field to a different spot and go back to giving her a retrieve .

Hope u can understand this and well done came a long way in a week

Thanks for the advice Trigger. Have been putting it into practice this week and starting to see a difference. She still breaks now and then but a few stern words when she comes back seems to stop her.

fitzy_fitzy

Jimy1971 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice Trigger. Have been putting it into practice this week and starting to see a difference. She still breaks now and then but a few stern words when she comes back seems to stop her.

It might be too late to give out to her when she comes back.
They say that they should be corrected straight away after they do something wrong.
But if its working, that's great.
I would chase after her if it was me and try to intervene with retrieve.
Great to hear you are making progress, must be very satisfying.

jimf

I would agree with fitzy intervene immediately and correct her
if you do it on her return it will get very confusing for her then she thinks shes in trouble for coming back

Jimy1971

jimf wrote: »

I would agree with fitzy intervene immediately and correct her
if you do it on her return it will get very confusing for her then she thinks shes in trouble for coming back

My mistake in posting, that's what I do. Run out behind her and give out to her before she gets the retrieve.

jimf

Jimy1971 wrote: »

My mistake in posting, that's what I do. Run out behind her and give out to her before she gets the retrieve.

good that's what you need to do but bring her back to where she broke from and keep her there for a while so she can digest her mistake

and keep cool sounds like you are making great progress

TriggerPL

Jimy1971 wrote: »

My mistake in posting, that's what I do. Run out behind her and give out to her before she gets the retrieve.

Great stuff ,

Try this tho I never recommend chasing a dog cause it can be mistaken for games.

Work on ur heal work , when telling the dog to heal do it in ur normal voice , don't raise it if he is healing ok while walking .

When your confident he's heeling perfect , have your mate up the Feild u walking with dog to heal with your shot gun , when you get into 40 yards , stop sit the dog and fire a shot , then get ur mate to shout mark and throw the dummy by hand out in the grass .

If he doesn't break , send him after 30 seconds for the retrieve and on returning give lots of praise !


If your dog breaks shout Heal ! Gud and aggressive , if he doesn't stop get ur mate to quickly get in between the dog and dummy whilst u shout heal again.

If he breaks and you get him stopped a few yards away , put the lead on him bring him back the few yards and make him sit with a sharp jerk on the lead .

Then take the lead off him make sure he stays while you go and pic the dummy , keep eye contact with him so he don't creep forward . When you have picked the dummy walk back to him give him praise for staying .

Then repeat the excersize further up the Feild 2 or 3 times at most , over 3 evening a week . It shouldn't take long .

Do not use the dummy launcher for this exercise you don't want two bangs you want the dog to relate the shot from gun with falling game .

This exercise covers steadiness , heal work marking of dropped game retrieve and delivery . And works great if done right .

sheebadog

Never ever intervene on a retrieve.
Don't get into the situation. It's your fault for allowing the situation to develop.

TriggerPL

sheebadog wrote: »

Never ever intervene on a retrieve.
Don't get into the situation. It's your fault for allowing the situation to develop.

There's alway one ! He knows it's his fault that's why he is here asking for help , and if you u want to go into more extensive training like directions then u do intercept retrieves .

sheebadog

TriggerPL wrote: »

There's alway one ! He knows it's his fault that's why he is here asking for help , and if you u want to go into more extensive training like directions then u do intercept retrieves .

If you are intercepting retrieves you have already lost.
Like the wise man once said: "catch the owner and kick the shyte out of him".

Go back to the very basics and start again. There are no short cuts.

TriggerPL

How has he already lossed ? !!! We have already showed that his first prob is sorting itself with the method we suggested .

All that wrong with that dog is he is egar to please which is great because you can work with that !

If you took the time to read my post I did say that he needs to have his heel work perfect befor he does this exercise so where is there corners been cut ?

TriggerPL

I havnt seen u suggest any other way yet ? And FYI every dog man ever to train a dog will tell you when tracking a dog steadiness on retrieve u don't let the dog pick everything .

So I do intercept the retrieve

sheebadog

TriggerPL wrote: »

I havnt seen u suggest any other way yet ? And FYI every dog man ever to train a dog will tell you when tracking a dog steadiness on retrieve u don't let the dog pick everything .

So I do intercept the retrieve

I did. Go back to basics and start again.
I've trained to the highest competitive level and there are two old sayings that I live by:
1. As above.
2. Know when to stop.

jimf

my golden rule would be the day things are going completely arseways just pack your bags and go home try again tomorrow

its a lot easier to give a dog a bad habit than it is to give a good one

sheebadog

jimf wrote: »

my golden rule would be the day things are going completely arseways just pack your bags and go home try again tomorrow

its a lot easier to give a dog a bad habit than it is to give a good one

Good advice.

TriggerPL

jimf wrote: »

my golden rule would be the day things are going completely arseways just pack your bags and go home try again tomorrow

its a lot easier to give a dog a bad habit than it is to give a good one

That's a given , there always another day !

sheebadog

TriggerPL wrote: »

That's a given , there always another day !

Trigger.
Here are a few things that you absolutely need to train a retriever.
I'm making the assumption that the dog is highly bred and true to that breeding it shows that it loads of ability.
1. Long rope
2. Starter pistol.
3. Dummy launcher.
4. Know how.

Now it's up to the handler to make either a handy shooting dog OR a Fcuk off dog that you can take anywhere and do anything with. Totally up to the handler how polished he wants his dog.

Now when I see people advising running after a dog and earwigging it for doing what it's bred to do.....Arrrgh!


Catch the handler and kick the shyte....

TriggerPL

sheebadog wrote: »

Trigger.
Here are a few things that you absolutely need to train a retriever.
I'm making the assumption that the dog is highly bred and true to that breeding it shows that it loads of ability.
1. Long rope
2. Starter pistol.
3. Dummy launcher.
4. Know how.

Now it's up to the handler to make either a handy shooting dog OR a Fcuk off dog that you can take anywhere and do anything with. Totally up to the handler how polished he wants his dog.

Now when I see people advising running after a dog and earwigging it for doing what it's bred to do.....Arrrgh!


Catch the handler and kick the shyte....

See mate that were we differ !

And as for training I've a lad trained to the highest standard , and extreamely well breed . Our gun club also run some of the best renowned trails in ireland .

Getting away from all that ! How about instead of attacking other people post , u offer advice in ur own words because so far you have said sweet f all to help .

Exactly the reason I never give advice ere anymore because there a bunch on hear feel the need to pull someone else comments apart !!

The op has already made progress with my advice if u can offer anything better let's hear it .

Either way the tit for tat is over !!

sheebadog

TriggerPL wrote: »

See mate that were we differ !

And as for training I've a lad trained to the highest standard , and extreamely well breed . Our gun club also run some of the best renowned trails in ireland .

Getting away from all that ! How about instead of attacking other people post , u offer advice in ur own words because so far you have said sweet f all to help .

Exactly the reason I never give advice ere anymore because there a bunch on hear feel the need to pull someone else comments apart !!

The op has already made progress with my advice if u can offer anything better let's hear it .

Either way the tit for tat is over !!

I gave the best possible advice.
Go back to basics and start again. Then repeat ad nauseum.
Jeez there is no big secret.
Dog at 14 months isn't ready for the final polish.
Work on the basics.
Work on the basics.
Maybe I'm in the habit of repeating myself.
Dog at 14 months is a PUP (and yes I'm shouting!).
Go back to basics.
Go back to basics. QED.

Btw did you win anything or did you ever have a dog well trained enough to compete?

TriggerPL

Ahhhhhh !! The man came on here looking for help !! Because he ran into a problem !!!


He's thought he had the basics done and wanted to move on there , not knowing the direction to go in , then ran into a problem !

My first bit of advice was go back to his heal work and sit and stay work then advised him on what way to proceed !

There is no point in ur thick head saying go back to basic , back to basic , back to basic what the chat don't know what or where he's starting from .

There only so much DVD and book teach ya !! And there rarely show you how to conter act problem when they arise !

And saying back to basic isn't giving advice ! There step by step guide like I've offered !

If everyone ere just told him go back to basics he wouldn of been any wiser !


You my friend have contributed nothing to this thread but sh1t, and talked down others trying to help !

@ the op, mate if you have any problem along the way pm me , I'm not listening to this bull , from someone that clearly isn't commenting in this thread to help but more to disrupt !!

sheebadog

1. Pup doesn't know stop whistle. Teach the stop.
2. Pup doesn't know turn whistle.

Pup doesn't have ANY training and it has a problem with steady to shot !

The pup needs to be yard trained first before it is taken working.

I would suggest OP to pm me for some proper advice.

TriggerPL

sheebadog wrote: »

1. Pup doesn't know stop whistle. Teach the stop.
2. Pup doesn't know turn whistle.

Pup doesn't have ANY training and it has a problem with steady to shot !

The pup needs to be yard trained first before it is taken working.

I would suggest OP to pm me for some proper advice.

What are you on about I've personal seen dogs at 14 months win trails and seen a dog qualify at our trail for the Irish championships at 16 months .

If pups don't know all this or can't learn this at an early age ! Why at 9 months can you run a dog in any trail .

And I well aware of where and when what part of training should take place !

sheebadog

TriggerPL wrote: »

What are you on about I've personal seen dogs at 14 months win trails and seen a dog qualify at our trail for the Irish championships at 16 months .

If pups don't know all this or can't learn this at an early age ! Why at 9 months can you run a dog in any trail .

And I well aware of where and when what part of training should take place !

Look at the video. Has 2 months to qualify for the championship. Might have a small bit of work to do yet.
Of course a precocious pup in the hands of a talented trainer could achieve that.

Op has a lovely pup that deserves to be properly trained and needs assistance.
I've trained to the highest level in two disciplines and would like to offer my help.
Trigger standing back in the gallery is a lot different to competing.

You have made this personal and insulted me. I understand that you mean well but my advice is what I've learned by experience over many years at the highest level. Forgive me if I come across as a thick sh!t.

TriggerPL

Mate there was no insult till u decided to undermine my advice and for all ur trailing experience or what ever you have ! U could have saved a lot of time but just offering advice step by step to help the OP !

Jimy1971

Lads, I'm not looking to trial the dog. Just to steady her up so when I'm shooting ducks from a hide, she's not running out everytime I fire a shot.

sheebadog

TriggerPL wrote: »

Mate there was no insult till u decided to undermine my advice and for all ur trailing experience or what ever you have ! U could have saved a lot of time but just offering advice step by step to help the OP !

Yea Trigger, opinions are like a**holes - everybody has one.
I offered advice that I was given 30 years ago by trialling men some now long gone.
Sorry if I undermined your expert advice.

sheebadog

Jimy1971 wrote: »

Lads, I'm not looking to trial the dog. Just to steady her up so when I'm shooting ducks from a hide, she's not running out everytime I fire a shot.

Then Jimy, spend as long as you can afford timewise in steadying her to shot.
Repeat the exercise until she stops dead whenever she hears a shot.
When she is running loose at say 70 or 80 yards and you fire a shot she should freeze and mark.
Time spent doing this will stand to her all her life and make for a more pleasant shooting companion.

TriggerPL

U offered no advice to help with the prob at hand !!!

This is what I been trying to get into ur skull for hours now !!!

TriggerPL

sheebadog wrote: »

Then Jimy, spend as long as you can afford timewise in steadying her to shot.
Repeat the exercise until she stops dead whenever she hears a shot.
When she is running loose at say 70 or 80 yards and you fire a shot she should freeze and mark.
Time spent doing this will stand to her all her life and make for a more pleasant shooting companion.

Finally u get the idea !!!!!

TriggerPL

Any way mate best of luck training ur dog like I said feel free to pm me I'm off this now , apparently 30 year old advice , differs from the advice I've picked up over 16 years of training dogs and been in and out of trailing scene !

As for our mate , il see u on the trailing Feild soon enough when I return home and let ur dog do the talking mate .

sheebadog

TriggerPL wrote: »

U offered no advice to help with the prob at hand !!!

This is what I been trying to get into ur skull for hours now !!!

Yes I did.
If you read back I said to stop the retrieves and go back to basics.
The pup has no problems retrieving, in fact she has no problems yet.
She has owner problems.
I've trained dogs for reward, that was the easy part, training the owners was the difficult bit.
It is often very hard for owners to resist "playing" with a pups natural abilities, where time would be better spent training the basics and working on the pups weakness's.
Example; springer pup excellent retrieving ability but poor hunting ability. What do the handlers do? They throw things into cover to get the pup to enter. Then they wonder why pup dances in front of them looking at the handlers hands!
Jimy's bitch has plenty "go" but no stop. Then work on the stop.

When she has the stop he will easily teach her direction with hand signals, even to be able to send her "back" which is invaluable for blind or unmarked retrieves.
That is the training I just love teaching a pup as it's most enjoyable way to spend a summer.

sheebadog

TriggerPL wrote: »

Any way mate best of luck training ur dog like I said feel free to pm me I'm off this now , apparently 30 year old advice , differs from the advice I've picked up over 16 years of training dogs and been in and out of trailing scene !

As for our mate , il see u on the trailing Feild soon enough when I return home and let ur dog do the talking mate .

Mate????