fantasy cycling infrastructure upgrades

bambergbike

magicbastarder wrote: »

that sounds potentially dangerous, in the context of overtaking; i don't think it's unreasonable to briefly exceed the speed limit while overtaking if it means a quicker overtaking manouvre. if you're 75% of the way through it, and someone pulls out onto the road ahead of you, it's probably much safer to floor the gas than to stand on the brakes.

Discussion on that here and one user says:

"I used to have a speed limiter on a Mercedes A-class automatic. The limit was manually set (whereas GPS-control would be much better), but the behaviour on aporoaching the limit was superb. The car would just gradually lose acceleration up to the limit; it felt completely natural, not like hitting a limit. Furthermore, it was possible to override the limit by "flooring it" to get out of a dangerous situation.

I'd be very much in favour of seeing systems like this mandated, though it's possible they don't work as well on a manual gearbox. The idea of external warnings, like horn & flashing headlights, coming on in the override case would be excellent, and reinforces the idea that this override is a safety measure."

I like the idea of flashers. An annoying chime inside the car (like they have in an assortment of countries) might probably be better than the horn.

Also worth noting that France and Germany (possibly other places as well) have speed limits that vary according to the weather (fixed metal signs that say things like "100, 70 if the the road is wet" and electronic signs.

Germany also has a nice explict rule in its road traffic law on speed and visibility which was enacted after too many accidents were caused by drivers driving to the limit rather than to the conditions:

"If visibility is down to less than 50 m due to fog, snow or rain, drivers may not proceed faster than 50 km/h; a slower speed may be indicated. Drivers must be able to stop within the distance they can see to be clear. On narrow roads where oncoming vehicles could be endangered, drivers must be able to stop within half the distance they can see to be clear."

So you can be done for speeding for driving inappropriately at 60 km/h in a 100 km/h zone...

Deedsie

Stop putting manholes, cats eyes in cycle lanes... Prosecutions for people that use cycle lanes as car parks... Actual maintenance of existing cycle lanes where the surface has eroded away.
Prosecutions for cyclists that run red lights, cycle on footpaths, dangerous cycling etc... They make us all look bad with their carry on, time for them to be fined on the spot much more regularly

If it is government policy to encourage cycling throughout Ireland then the Gardaí need to be briefed that it is their roll to ensure the safety of all road users and any detection of reckless driving near a cyclist should be dealt with much more severely.

Tenzor07

Maybe not so much infrastructure as re-recreational infrastructure, but I would like to see the building of Mountain bike trails which people want to use on Coillte forestry lands...

bambergbike

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Maybe not so much infrastructure as re-recreational infrastructure, but I would like to see the building of Mountain bike trails which people want to use on Coillte forestry lands...

Recreational infrastructure is infrastructure too! The Wild Atlantic Way is essentially a project to create 3000 km of recreational infrastructure for car drivers - I don't see why mountain bike and other bike infrastructure shouldn't be conceived on the same scale and designed to keep people busy for weeks rather than just for the hours between breakfast and lunch on the first day of their holiday.

Tenzor07

bambergbike wrote: »

Recreational infrastructure is infrastructure too! The Wild Atlantic Way is essentially a project to create 3000 km of recreational infrastructure for car drivers - I don't see why mountain bike and other bike infrastructure shouldn't be conceived on the same scale and designed to keep people busy for weeks rather than just for the hours between breakfast and lunch on the first day of their holiday.

True, we can dream though...

Coillte have about as much interest in developing Mountain bike trails as they do in growing Coconut trees in Wicklow! :rolleyes:

tomasrojo

Thanks for that description of a speed delimiter, bambergbike. I'll remember that. Sounds as if everything is technically worked out already. Cost and political inertia might be a bigger obstacle.

magicbastarder

in an urban context, i would be curious to see if speed is an issue (as in cars going over the speed limit) in a lot of accidents; i would suspect (just a gut reaction) that most rush-hour accidents are due to driver/cyclist/etc. error, with the vehicles involved under the speed limit.

perhaps controlling red light behaviour could have a greater impact?

Thargor

Well designed high rise car parks in strategic places, reasonable priced with memberships etc maybe including free Dublin Bikes participation and Dublin Bike stations at their exits so people can park and cycle, then ban on-street parking basically everywhere else, the city would free itself up overnight and feel cleaner and less claustrophobic. Then star pedestrianizing and all the other improvements we should have had years ago.

Deedsie

I honestly think they should start putting up signs that traffic lights are also to be obeyed by cyclists. Some of the goons on the N11 every morning pay zero heed to traffic lights. Ridiculous to think of this needing to be done.

I also think a €250 on the spot fine should be implemented for cyclists on pedestrian streets or footpaths. The amount of people cycling down Grafton street would be sorted fairly quick if a nationwide ad campaign including a section on fines for cycling in pedestrian zones.

Peter T

magicbastarder wrote: »

that sounds potentially dangerous, in the context of overtaking; i don't think it's unreasonable to briefly exceed the speed limit while overtaking if it means a quicker overtaking manouvre. if you're 75% of the way through it, and someone pulls out onto the road ahead of you, it's probably much safer to floor the gas than to stand on the brakes.

I think they were talking about more urban area's rather then suburban and rural.

For me it would be to just add an extra bit to the side of N roads etc for a path and in the case if there is a hard shoulder have a decent surface on it and keep it clean. I dont do any urban cycling so cant really comment on that.

xxyyzz

Spending less than half of it in Dublin would be marvellous.

loyatemu

Deedsie wrote: »

I also think a €250 on the spot fine should be implemented for cyclists on pedestrian streets or footpaths. The amount of people cycling down Grafton street would be sorted fairly quick if a nationwide ad campaign including a section on fines for cycling in pedestrian zones.

make it €1000! - people cycling down Grafton Street is a major public safety issue and the sooner it is clamped down on HARD the better.

magicbastarder

so a greater fine than driving a car at excessive speed?

anyway, back to the original question - i've seen them on buses in other countries, so how about bus eireann investigating putting bike racks on the back of some buses?

check_six

Deedsie wrote: »

I honestly think they should start putting up signs that traffic lights are also to be obeyed by cyclists. Some of the goons on the N11 every morning pay zero heed to traffic lights. Ridiculous to think of this needing to be done.

I also think a €250 on the spot fine should be implemented for cyclists on pedestrian streets or footpaths. The amount of people cycling down Grafton street would be sorted fairly quick if a nationwide ad campaign including a section on fines for cycling in pedestrian zones.

I'd tend to go the other way. If I could dream up some imaginary rules I'd do a Stop sign instead of a red traffic light for bikes on many (but not all junctions). Over the years more Yield and Stop signs have been converted to Traffic Lights because the amount of motorised vehicular traffic rocketed in the late nineties and if you were in a car you'd never get through some junctions nowadays without traffic lights. Bikes can pretty much always turn left on red without getting in anyone's way so long as they have a look first. I'm fairly confident this would not cause any kind of apocalypse as this is the way some cyclists go around right now, and apart from some moaning (from the likes of me patiently waiting for my light!) I'm not seeing a whole lot of actual danger in the practice.

The bike contra-flow lane on one way streets is such an obvious step that I cannot understand why it hasn't been done already. Send some councillors on a fact finding mission somewhere nice post haste!

Cycling in pedestrian areas and footpaths is another one I don't see a problem with. There are a whole bunch of cycle tracks that are on the footpath where you are "separated" from people by the insurmountable barrier of a strip of white paint. You can also find some tracks which have a mixed use sign signifying that both bikes and pedestrians may use the same bit of pathway with no separation. Again, I don't see the predicted carnage there either. I think a pedestrian area like Grafton St could have a "Dear Cyclist, take it easy" sign maybe. Bear in mind that Grafton St permits delivery access up till 10am or 11am for any kind of vehicles (or at least it did when I use to cycle it in the mornings back in the day).

Essentially, I'd like to be able to do the stuff every other punter seems to do (without causing harm) right now that my social conscience won't allow me to.

Deedsie

magicbastarder wrote: »

so a greater fine than driving a car at excessive speed?

anyway, back to the original question - i've seen them on buses in other countries, so how about bus eireann investigating putting bike racks on the back of some buses?

Speeding in a car and cycling in a pedestrian zone are not really comparable? What does it matter if it's more? Don't do it and it will be nothing to worry about. A 90kg man cycling towards an elderly person on a pedestrian street is comparably dangerous to a car driving at excessive speed on a public road.

check_six

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Travelators on all hills.

Maybe some reverse travelators to stretch out some of our indigenous hills to Alpine proportions?

check_six

Deedsie wrote: »

A 90kg man cycling towards an elderly person on a pedestrian street is comparably dangerous to a car driving at excessive speed on a public road.

Mr Physics just called and he said he'd like you to call him back for a bit of a run through of your end of year project.

Also, I don't agree wth your statement.

Tenzor07

Deedsie wrote: »

Speeding in a car and cycling in a pedestrian zone are not really comparable? What does it matter if it's more? Don't do it and it will be nothing to worry about. A 90kg man cycling towards an elderly person on a pedestrian street is comparably dangerous to a car driving at excessive speed on a public road.

I'm speechless, literally!! :eek:

bambergbike

Deedsie wrote: »

Speeding in a car and cycling in a pedestrian zone are not really comparable? What does it matter if it's more? Don't do it and it will be nothing to worry about. A 90kg man cycling towards an elderly person on a pedestrian street is comparably dangerous to a car driving at excessive speed on a public road.

I had a long discussion with a tractor driver (long high-sided trailer behind the tractor) last Friday afternoon.

Me: That was too close.

Friendly tractor driver with very long high-sided trailer: But nothing happened.

Me: Something did happen. I feared for my life for a few long seconds. The days I have a near-death experience actually feel a bit different from the days when I don't, funnily enough. And the next time I use this road I'll be nervous even though it's very quiet.

Friendly tractor driver: But I was watching you in my mirrors the whole time, I could see I wasn't going to touch you.

Me: It's true that you kept the gap at 30 cm the whole time but 30 cm isn't enough, you need to allow for the unpredictable happening. I was going uphill. The bike is loaded. I could have hit a pothole or been stung by a wasp or just wobbled and I would have gone straight into the wheels of the tractor or the side of the trailer.

Friendly tractor driver: But there was nothing I could do. The car was overtaking me as I was overtaking you, I couldn't give you more space.

Me: You could have waited a few seconds with your overtake. You wouldn't have been waiting long on a quiet road like this, three more seconds at 15 km/h I was doing rather than your allowed max of 25 km/h wouldn't have made a big difference to you and would have made a big difference to me. The bus didn't overtake you before you pulled off, it wasn't safe and he just hung back for a few seconds.

At that point he still didn't seem to be fully taking in what I was saying so I went round to the front of the tractor and looked pointedly at the number plate (he hadn't had one on the trailer.) And then he got a bit nervous and started telling me all about how he'd never had an accident and had helped out at car crashes as a fire brigade volunteer and never wanted to cause one.

He was a nice man, the conversation was friendly, and I'm sure he did check his mirrors obsessively. But he had trouble grasping that he had pulled off a really stupid stunt, albeit slowly and while watching his mirrors carefully.

You can have two opionions of a "nothing happened" situation like that:

1. If you see the problem as one road user intimidating another, then there is not much difference between a tractor driver scaring a cyclist witless and a cyclist frightening the wits out of a pedestrian. In that sense I understand your logic - the subjective experience of being intimidated is similar in both situations. And the sheer rudeness of the person prioritizing their own journey over an other person's comfort and safety is similar.

2. BUT if you see the problem as one person creating a risky situation in which another person could easily have been killed and by some stroke of good fortune wasn't, then the objective level of risk created matters. And there is a massive difference between the risks presented by a driver being careless or rude and a cyclist being careless or rude.

Donie75

Would love to see an extensive bike trail network developed in coillte forests and other public lands. Grants for landowners to develop trails and new regulations to deal with the planning, etc. it could be the driver for great bike tourism. Take the Slieve Bloom or Wicklow area. Great for road cycling and if MTB trails were developed it could lead to a joined up tourism plan.

Tenzor07

Donie75 wrote: »

Would love to see an extensive bike trail network developed in coillte forests and other public lands. Grants for landowners to develop trails and new regulations to deal with the planning, etc. it could be the driver for great bike tourism. Take the Slieve Bloom or Wicklow area. Great for road cycling and if MTB trails were developed it could lead to a joined up tourism plan.

There's fantasy and pure outright dreaming!

Iwannahurl

desertcircus

Deedsie wrote: »

Speeding in a car and cycling in a pedestrian zone are not really comparable? What does it matter if it's more? Don't do it and it will be nothing to worry about. A 90kg man cycling towards an elderly person on a pedestrian street is comparably dangerous to a car driving at excessive speed on a public road.

The fail is strong in this one.

Jabel

If we're talking fantasy here...
I'd like a succession of flag waving, ridiculous costume wearing,
people running alongside me shouting encouragement on the hills and then when I reach my destination I'd like to be kissed by two beautiful girls while I stand atop the winners podium with a nice bunch of flowers...:D

magicbastarder

that reminded me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6ep_d_LrMY#t=13m12s

tomasrojo

This is a relatively recent thread about infrastructure, so I'll put this article about infrastructure in Seville here:
http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/jan/28/seville-cycling-capital-southern-europe-bike-lanes

tomasrojo

Not exclusively an article about infrastructure, but, as with my last post, not sure where else it could go:

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/may/05/amsterdam-bicycle-capital-world-transport-cycling-kindermoord

(The graph in that article seems to confirm what I've seen before, possibly the same data source: even greatly diminished over time until its nadir in the 70s, cycling never went as low in the Netherlands as it did elsewhere, presumably because of all the interventions in the 70s, and because it started from such a high level.)

omri

Not sure how many of you got a chance to cycle through Blackrock, the new wide cycle paths are brilliant, would love to see that across the entire Dublin. So thumbs up for DLRD CoCo.

diomed

Deedsie wrote: »

A 900kg man cycling towards an elderly person on a pedestrian street is comparably dangerous to a car driving at excessive speed on a public road.

Fixed

RainyDay

Deedsie wrote: »

Speeding in a car and cycling in a pedestrian zone are not really comparable? What does it matter if it's more? Don't do it and it will be nothing to worry about. A 90kg man cycling towards an elderly person on a pedestrian street is comparably dangerous to a car driving at excessive speed on a public road.

It's 'comparably dangerous'? Really? Take a quick look at the road safety stats. Motor vehicles kill 200+ people each year and maim thousands of others. Cyclists don't.

bambergbike wrote: »

I had a long discussion with a tractor driver (long high-sided trailer behind the tractor) last Friday afternoon.

The oul helmetcam can be effective in showing the incident from your point of view.