Crowley leaves ALDE - next to leave FF?

airuser

http://www.votewatch.eu/en/brian-crowley.html

Have a look here

michael999999

airuser wrote: »

http://www.votewatch.eu/en/brian-crowley.html

Have a look here

That record is pretty pathetic!

airuser

In a statement released afterwards, party whip Seán Ó Fearghaíl and chairman Brendan Smith said it “it was agreed that the ideas and principles of the ECR group and its component parties are totally incompatible with the core principles of Fianna Fáil, The Republican Party”
“We do not believe it is in the interest of the Fianna Fáil party and its members to have any association with the ECR in the European Parliament, ” the statement said.
“As a direct consequence of Brian Crowley’s unilateral decision to join the ECR group he has removed himself from the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party.”
A further move to remove Mr Crowley’s party membership, which would have to go to the Fianna Fáil national executive, is not expected.
At the parliamentary party meeting, Kerry Senator Mark Daly, seen as close to Mr Crowley, said he did not support the motion and asked that his dissent be recorded.
A number of TDs said Mr Crowley, who is in hospital and unavailable for comment, should be allowed to address the parliamentary party.

The above is quoted from the Irish Times this morning.

Just shows this is all about Party and nothing about country. It shows how poorly FF is being lead.

Martin show have proposed the expulsion of Crowley right away.

However, by looking at the quote above it shows how split the party is.

Some people would like this party to lead the country.

They are headless.

I know after the Medical Card fiasco The Goverment are no better

dixiefly

In an odd way I am happy that this has occurred.

After the last Euro elections and the media coverage about Crowley getting another landslide I was wondering was I missing something about this guy. He never seems to do anything but tops the poll all the time. I was thinking that he must be doing great work or his people doing great behind the scenes work in Cork.

In my opinion comments that Euro parliament is different to national parliament and politicians can go their own way is complete bull$hit. Crowley was elected as a Fianna Fail candidate and, though I don't like them, I support their right as a party to decide how their candidates implement their policies etc. If Crowley wanted to do his own thing then he should have gone for election as an independent, simple as.

Operation or no operation, Martin needs to expel him from the party.

Sierra Oscar

raymon wrote: »

I saw that interview with Michael Martin. Martin looked like a broken man. He is spinning this to look like Crowley left himself, that is not the truth at all

Wait, how is it not? You automatically lose the whip when you make a decision (that the party has not endorsed) to join a different political grouping that the party is not affiliated with. Just in the same way that you automatically lose the whip when you vote against the party line in the Dáil / Seanad.

That is the way the whip system operates.

raymon

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Wait, how is it not? You automatically lose the whip when you make a decision (that the party has not endorsed) to join a different political grouping that the party is not affiliated with. Just in the same way that you automatically lose the whip when you vote against the party line in the Dáil / Seanad.

That is the way the whip system operates.

This is new territory and is unprecedented - I dont believe that this is a rule. Do you know of anywhere where it is written that "if you make a decision to join a different political grouping that the party is not affiliated with that you will lose the whip."

Micheael Martin didnt have the moral fibre to go to the hospital in Cork with a bunch of grapes and a bottle of Lucozade and an expulsion notice. He wanted to turn it back on Crowley himself in a sneaky way so he wouldnt look bad.

Tabnabs

dixiefly wrote: »

If Crowley wanted to do his own thing then he should have gone for election as an independent, simple as.

That argument is morally sound, but economically flawed. Much easier to spend someone else's money to grease the wheels of the election machinery...

airuser

Tabnabs wrote: »

That argument is morally sound, but economically flawed. Much easier to spend someone else's money to grease the wheels of the election machinery...

Thar is true.

Mr.Micro

michael999999 wrote: »

Can anyone tell me even one thing this man has achieved in Europe?

A big salary and expenses.

airuser

Besides that.

Has anyone actual seen any report or comments on what he has achieved in EU since he joined in 1994.

I have posted earlier on this forum a link to what he has done. Nothing.

Up to this election there were 766 members. He was 755.

Once we elect these MEP we have them. I know he had a Huge personal vote last time out. With that he could no get a second MEP elected.

Red Nissan

dixiefly wrote: »

In my opinion comments that Euro parliament is different to national parliament and politicians can go their own way is complete bull$hit. Crowley was elected as a Fianna Fail candidate and,

Factually incorrect. He was not elected as an FF MEP. He ran with the party and was elected as a Munster MEP. FF have nothing to do with the European Parliament.

airuser

Red Nissan wrote: »

Factually incorrect. He was not elected as an FF MEP. He ran with the party and was elected as a Munster MEP. FF have nothing to do with the European Parliament.

Why then did he run under the FF banner recently. Has Ben reported as the ONLY
FF MEP.


Me thinks one is splitting hairs.

If he was in any Private Sector occupation he would have been asked to resign with his record of attendance at roll call.

Red Nissan

airuser wrote: »

Me thinks one is splitting hairs.

No hairs. His seat is not an FF seat in the Euro Parliament. For his Euro seat his background is irrelevant and his vote counts as one.

Red Nissan

airuser wrote: »

If he was in any Private Sector occupation he would have been asked to resign with his record of attendance at roll call.

Resign from what? Who should ask him to do so?

airuser

That is the problem. No one can until next time. As I have said one deserves the politicians we get.

dlouth15

I see very little issue in any of this unless you are a staunch FF supporter for whom party loyalty is paramount. Crowley was fairly elected by the people of Munster. For whatever reason, he decided not to be a member of the EU parliamentary group to which FF was aligned and instead joined another one. He's fully entitled to do this. This is a matter between Crowley and his constituents.

Likewise Fianna Fail are fully entitled to withdraw the whip (i.e. remove him from the parliamentary party). This is a matter between Crowley and his party.

What I don't understand is non-FF supporters (of which there are a few on this thread) seeing any of this as important. It doesn't change the political landscape in Europe much and Fianna Fail no longer having an MEP is surely a bonus.

For Reals

If I were a Fianna Fail supporter, who lets be fair, like any party supporter, will give the nod to the party man, I'd be more than a little browned off having voted for someone with seemingly differing beliefs from the party he signed his name to.
Like Labour, the brand is supposed to mean something, so if people vote for it, they expect it. Obviously this is rarely the case, sadly, but he certainly shouldn't be commended.

dlouth15

For Reals wrote: »

If I were a Fianna Fail supporter, who lets be fair, like any party supporter, will give the nod to the party man, I'd be more than a little browned off having voted for someone with seemingly differing beliefs from the party he signed his name to.

If you were a Fianna Fail supporter you would also be browned off that all the other parties are doing their best to undermine Fianna Fail.

But of course you're not a Fainna Fail supporter and so you are not bothered by misfortune for Fianna Fail, their policies, or the wishes of the supporters of Fianna Fail.

Why are you now bothered that one of their MEPs (let's leave aside for the moment that it's their only MEP) has defected from the FF EU group, ALDE?

You agree that he's perfectly entitled to do so? You agree that he's perfectly entitled to act as he sees fit once elected?

Do you agree that it is important for TDs and MEPs to have the power to disobey the party whip if they feel it sufficiently important (subject to party discipline)?

raymon

dlouth15 wrote: »

If you were a Fianna Fail supporter you would also be browned off that all the other parties are doing their best to undermine Fianna Fail.

It is not "other parties" that are undermining FF. This circus is entirely self contained within Fianna Fail.

Michael Martin is looking like a awful clown , not because of the other parties but because of his lack of leadership during the recent foul acts of :

Eamon O Cuiv
Niall Collins
Mary Hanafin
Brian Crowley

Not to mind the Limerick council defectors .

Do you think Michael Martin is a good leader yourself - dlouth ?

Red Nissan

raymon wrote: »

Do you think Michael Martin is a good leader yourself - dlouth ?

TBH, our last Taoiseach has a tunnel named after him, over time, I'm not that proud of that anymore, I probably won't live to see it renamed to Mickey Mar, thankfully.

dlouth15

raymon wrote: »

It is not "other parties" that are undermining FF. This circus is entirely self contained within Fianna Fail.

It may be that my point isn't directed at you or your posts but for me, as a non-FF supporter, I say good. Crowley did the wrong thing by Fianna Fail but as a non-FF supporter he did the right thing by me (though of course not intentionally!). I have no moral problem with Crowley's actions for the simple reason that I'm not Fianna Fail. He also broke no laws so I can't fault him there either.

raymon

Red Nissan wrote: »

TBH, our last Taoiseach has a tunnel named after him, over time, I'm not that proud of that anymore, I probably won't live to see it renamed to Mickey Mar, thankfully.

Speaking of Jack Lynch - Michael Martin invoked his ghost today to attack Crowley .

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/jack-lynch-would-be-spinning-in-his-grave-over-crowley-move-1.1844766

He doesn't have the backbone to expel him - but he has no problem on the radio attacking him.

dlouth15

raymon wrote: »

Do you think Michael Martin is a good leader yourself - dlouth ?

I should have been a bit clearer earlier. What I was trying say was that I couldn't understand the sort of moral outrage accompanying Crowley's move from ALDE among what I believe to be some non-FF supporters.

raymon

dlouth15 wrote: »

I should have been a bit clearer earlier. What I was trying say was that I couldn't understand the sort of moral outrage accompanying Crowley's move from ALDE among what I believe to be some non-FF supporters.

I see - sorry could have been my reading.

In any case I am definitely not outraged in the least. FF having no MEP is good for Europe, good for Ireland , and good for the Irish.

Red Nissan

raymon wrote: »

He doesn't have the backbone to expel him - but he has no problem on the radio attacking him.

Thanks for that, IMO, Jack would be giving the "Hurrah" and "Hu" to Crowley, Jack was a fill in plaster himself and never liked it, he had to bite the bullet and lose his memory over a few things, not least the actual invasion of the North in 1969 in an effort to stall the British military build up.

I think Crowley is in fact honouring Jack, we never know the pressure individually from these monster organisations, Crowley, at this time, has stood for his constituents, what he should do,

petronius

ALDE (keep hearing it as Aldi...)

The media depicting the new grouping as Eurosceptic and Rightwing shows their own inclination and bias for the status quo.
It is not so long ago that FF did consider joining a grouping with the Tories as members.
It is also not so long ago that FG was sitting side by side with the Tories as members of the EPP

FF ....messed up. Crowley is an excellent candidate and should have been run in the presidential election.
Not getting 2 seats in munster with his vote is a major faux pas electorally

Sierra Oscar

dlouth15 wrote: »

I should have been a bit clearer earlier. What I was trying say was that I couldn't understand the sort of moral outrage accompanying Crowley's move from ALDE among what I believe to be some non-FF supporters.

It seems to be a none issue expect in the minds of those obsessed with FF. It shouldn't have happened but all the same I am not hearing too many people outside of the political anoraks discussing it. I can see Crowley being brought back into the fold down the line.

View

dlouth15 wrote: »

I see very little issue in any of this unless you are a staunch FF supporter for whom party loyalty is paramount. Crowley was fairly elected by the people of Munster. For whatever reason, he decided not to be a member of the EU parliamentary group to which FF was aligned and instead joined another one. He's fully entitled to do this. This is a matter between Crowley and his constituents.

Likewise Fianna Fail are fully entitled to withdraw the whip (i.e. remove him from the parliamentary party). This is a matter between Crowley and his party
.

It is also a matter of interest to the wider public.

FF has made a democratic decision to belong to a European Political Party with a loose but broadly identifiable political position.

Brian Crowley has chosen to join another European Political Party with a completely different political position (and which has recently admitted some reprehensible individuals).

Voters are perfectly entitled to comment on the contradictory positions adopted by FF & BC. Such a contradictory position would not be tolerated at domestic level and there is no reason for voters to expect it to be tolerated at EP level.

Voters ARE entitled to ask "Does the BC tail wag the FF dog?" or is it vice versa?

Zubeneschamali

For Reals wrote: »

Like Labour, the brand is supposed to mean something, so if people vote for it, they expect it.

The FF brand stands for betraying the voters and trousering the cash, so I'd say Crowley is a perfect front-man for the brand.

michael999999

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

It seems to be a none issue expect in the minds of those obsessed with FF. It shouldn't have happened but all the same I am not hearing too many people outside of the political anoraks discussing it. I can see Crowley being brought back into the fold down the line.

So even after Crowley stabbed the party in the back, they will still take him back.

Now there's a party built on principles and courage.

Its no wonder Michael martin is gone into hiding!