DFS legally binding contract

howyegettinon1

Hi,

Looking for some legal advice on the sittuation we are in with DFS at the moment.

One week ago we went into DFS to buy a new couch for 1428euro, we had put down a 200 euro deposit and signed a legaly binding contract (which of course we didnt read or think too much of at the time of the purchase)

Later on that week we have changed our mind and went with a sofa offered to us by a family member for a fraction of the price.

We contacted the store to cancel our order and looking to return our deposit. The store manager advised there is no way to cancel the order once it placed and you have signed the contract (in a very rude and pushy manner)

We have been going back and forth between phone calls to the HQ in UK and emails which have also advised there is no going back you signed the contract ''deal with it'' type attitude

So today we recieved a phone call from the store to advise our couch will be ready for collection in two weeks.
I advised the manager i will not be taking the couch and i am willing to forfit my deposit at this stage.

Their reply is you bought this couch, you own it and end of!! The outstanding balance will be passed to a debt collection agency.

We look for some advice from the citzens information on cancelation policies, deposit returns and cooling of periods, between all we dont have a leg to stand on.

Paying them for the couch is not an option. Where can we go from here?

Thanks in advance

thewintermute

Is it a bit like ordering a made to measure suit and then deciding against it?

howyegettinon1

On the section we signed it states not in the exact words, ''this item is being made specially for YOU and YOUR specifications''
So I guess from their point of view yes, but this is a standard couch from the showroom and from their website, with no special requirements or specification.

Dangel4x4

You paid a deposit and signed a contract agreeing to buy a bespoke item?

Enjoy your new sofa.

http://www.dfs.co.uk/content/terms-and-conditions

Acknowledgement and acceptance of your order

Everything that DFS sells is handmade. As a manufacturer we pride ourselves on being able to make furniture that's perfect for you.

If you place an order with dfs Direct, we will send all your paperwork by 1st class post to arrive within 3 working days.

It is important that you appreciate and understand that this order is a legally binding contract.

howyegettinon1

Is there any loophole of any sort to get out of this?

Dangel4x4

Not really.

Unless the person who signed the contract lacked mental capacity, or signed under duress, or made a certain kind of mistake.

None of these apply here though, as you said you just changed your mind...

If you had bought it online you would have had a cooling off period.

howyegettinon1

Thanks for the advice, very expensive lesson by the looks of things!
Just a last shot in the dark, what about if I was able to prove I was intoxicated or the influence of drugs at the time of the purchase? Would that void the contract?

Dangel4x4

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice, very expensive lesson by the looks of things!
Just a last shot in the dark, what about if I was able to prove I was intoxicated or the influence of drugs at the time of the purchase? Would that void the contract?

The salesman would say you were sober and coherent when you signed the contract. You're talking about going to court when you go down this road. Is that time and expense it worth it for a sofa?

Chalk it down to experience

the world wonders

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

Just a last shot in the dark, what about if I was able to prove I was intoxicated or the influence of drugs at the time of the purchase? Would that void the contract?

Possibly

Individuals who are clearly intoxicated - by alcohol or otherwise - are generally deemed not to be able to enter legally binding agreements.[22] Lord Ellenborough stated that such persons have "no agreeing mind",[27] though similar principles apply as to those who are otherwise incapacitated. A drunken person can choose to ratify a contract once they are again sober,[28] and under the Sale of Goods Act 1979, they are legally bound with regard to contracts for necessaries.

(I look forward to the hilarity when the Freemen hear about this loophole)

Dangel4x4

I was going to say "Hey SOGA 1979 is English legislation" but the T&C's do say that "The contract between us shall be governed by the laws of England and any dispute between us will be resolved exclusively in the courts of England."

Good luck op.

Goat the dote

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice, very expensive lesson by the looks of things!
Just a last shot in the dark, what about if I was able to prove I was intoxicated or the influence of drugs at the time of the purchase? Would that void the contract?

That's absolutely ridiculous. You signed the contract, for a bespoke item, suck it up

Victor

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

Just a last shot in the dark, what about if I was able to prove I was intoxicated or the influence of drugs at the time of the purchase? Would that void the contract?

(a) Do you want to admit in court that you are a nuisance drunk?
or
(b) Do you want to perjure your self and face a stiff prison sentence?

howyegettinon1

Victor wrote: »

(a) Do you want to admit in court that you are a nuisance drunk?
or
(b) Do you want to perjure your self and face a stiff prison sentence?

Thats out of the questions now anyway, traveling expenses to England will cost more than the couch.

ABajaninCork

Why is paying for the couch not an option, OP? Clearly, you had the money when you ordered it...

How about selling the couch straight on when you get it? That way you won't be out too much money.

howyegettinon1

Thats a great idea, the couch is already up for sale, so hopefull something comes thrue before the couch is ready for collection.

I can still buy the couch but its an expense i dont need as i already bough another couch from a relative.

So what will happen if i dont buy the couch?
They are going to pass this off to a debt collection agency, who in turn will sell my stuff for me in order for me to pay for the couch which I have never used or collected? It doesnt really make sense, its easyer for them to retain the 200 deposit and sell off the couch to the next customer (between dozens of stores they have i dont see that being too much of a problem for them, keeping in mind they already have an extra 200 without lifting a finger)

I can understand this approach if say I bought say a car on finance missed payments, the first thing that the debt collectors are going to take is the car?
But in this case the couch has never left the store, if this was to go to the debt collectors shouldnt the couch be the first thing they take, and since its never left the store or the original packaging it should cover the cost of the debt?


Also if i was persued for the remaining amount through the courts, Im a right to believe they can only look for the production cost of the couch, without their profit margin?

Bepolite

Contact FLAC, having said that Citizen's advice sound correct. I'm wondering if Unfair contract terms regs might come into play.

howyegettinon1

Bepolite wrote: »

Contact FLAC, having said that Citizen's advice sound correct. I'm wondering if Unfair contract terms regs might come into play.

Thanks i will check it out, just to add to that, when i contacted citizens information I was only asking what can we do to get the deposit back and if there is a cooling of period after a contract is signed(which only applies to distance selling). I only found out today about the debt collectors.

howyegettinon1

Goat the dote wrote: »

That's absolutely ridiculous. You signed the contract, for a bespoke item, suck it up

ok maybe a bit too far there, but im i the only one who thinks this is bizare?
It's not like im trying to pull a fast one here, is loosing you deposit not enough?

ABajaninCork

You dodged a bullet with DFS! Bought a sofa from them once. Never again - cheap Chinese crap. Your rellie's sofa will probably last longer.

godtabh

ABajaninCork wrote: »

You dodged a bullet with DFS! Bought a sofa from them once. Never again - cheap Chinese crap. Your rellie's sofa will probably last longer.

THings change

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/jun/30/dfs-leads-british-manufacturing-resurgence

howyegettinon1

ABajaninCork wrote: »

You dodged a bullet with DFS! Bought a sofa from them once. Never again - cheap Chinese crap. Your rellie's sofa will probably last longer.

agree while looking for information about their cancelation policy, found so many post about the bad quality of the sofa's and how quickly they turn against you once they start to lose a sale.

dudara

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

Also if i was persued for the remaining amount through the courts, Im a right to believe they can only look for the production cost of the couch, without their profit margin?

I doubt it - they are entitled to look for loss of earnings or revenue. Otherwise, what's the point of business?

Pat Mustard

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

Also if i was persued for the remaining amount through the courts, Im a right to believe they can only look for the production cost of the couch, without their profit margin?

Damages in contract are generally calculated on what the person would have been entitled to, had the contract been performed.

ABajaninCork

godtabh wrote: »

THings change

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/jun/30/dfs-leads-british-manufacturing-resurgence

So? I still wouldn't buy from them. They're awful to deal with too. But am speaking from my experience with them in London. I wouldn't buy from them again if you gave me gold.

howyegettinon1

what im trying to find out here will they actully bother chasing me for 1200 for a couch that has never been un-packed and never left their store?? See numbers below, they arent exactly going to have a problem selling the couch.

''Harvey Ellis, head of manufacturing at DFS, who oversees the 838 workers on three sites and in two woodmills, explained: "Once we receive an order, it takes just four days to go from an order on our screens to being loaded on to a van. The frames are shipped in from our wood factory six miles away and we will make 3,000 pieces a week. Today we'll complete 900."

ABajaninCork

They will. You might as well take your medicine...

Why did you sign the agreement without reading and understanding it?

howyegettinon1

It was a mistake on my part, plus I had the full intentions on buying the couch so didnt worry too much about what I was signing, would have took it from the store that day if I could. just so it happened this other couch came along few days later.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Bepolite

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Irish contract law is almost identical. That said if the agreement has a clause about it being an English contract there might be some wriggle room there.

Bepolite

dudara wrote: »

I doubt it - they are entitled to look for loss of earnings or revenue. Otherwise, what's the point of business?

The Mustard wrote: »

Damages in contract are generally calculated on what the person would have been entitled to, had the contract been performed.

True but they have a duty to mitigate their loss. In this case the loss would be zero.

Pat Mustard

Bepolite wrote: »

True but they have a duty to mitigate their loss. In this case the loss would be zero.

I think that the loss should be the balance of the amount owed. Perhaps the loss could be mitigated by selling off the sofa for whatever price can be achieved. However, it might not be possible to find a buyer for it.

Marcusm

Bepolite wrote: »

Irish contract law is almost identical. That said if the agreement has a clause about it being an English contract there might be some wriggle room there.

To be honest, I suspect that there is little difference in relation to SoGA items; however, if the application of English law went so far as to choice of venue, surely there would be an argument that this would fall foul of unfair contract terms rules as it would place an undue burden on the consumer.

In relation to recoverability, the OP could consider write to DFS acknowledging his liability for the sofa but inviting them to provide evidence of the quantum of its loss. Bearing in mind the broad branch network, it should be possible to offload the sofa with a small reduction in price. If they choose to offload it through a heavily discounted store for discontinued or unwanted stick, I would challenge that on the basis that they have not acted to minimise their loss. Holding on to the item for a couple of months and seeking to match it with another order through their network would, other than for very bespoke items, produce a smaller loss. Ultimately, they might likely give up.

goz83

The OP signed a contract. A deposit is not a get out of jail free card. The deposit formed part of the agreement, which the OP promised, at the time of signing the contract, to pay the full amount, presumably on collection, or before taking delivery. If the sofa is made to order, the OP needs to man up, pay for the sofa and learn from this. There is ALWAYS a chance of changing your mind, so ALWAYS be mindful when signing a contract.

In my business, I take a booking fee for my service, which forms part of the full fee. I find it comical, if someone cancels my services on the day of their appointment and also expect a booking fee back. Not too happy when they are reminded that multiples of their booking fee is due, because they didn't bother their hole cancelling sooner. When the OP said he paid the deposit and then asked for it back a few days later, that said it all....washes his hands of responsibility. Pretend to have been drunk? Disgraceful carry on that is. I hope I never have to deal with that type of b0llix.

Zeppi

When a deposit is paid and nothing signed it's still a legally binding contract as you have agreed to purchase the sofa.

Zeppi

CK73

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

Thats a great idea, the couch is already up for sale, so hopefull something comes thrue before the couch is ready for collection.

I can still buy the couch but its an expense i dont need as i already bough another couch from a relative.

So what will happen if i dont buy the couch?
They are going to pass this off to a debt collection agency, who in turn will sell my stuff for me in order for me to pay for the couch which I have never used or collected? It doesnt really make sense, its easyer for them to retain the 200 deposit and sell off the couch to the next customer (between dozens of stores they have i dont see that being too much of a problem for them, keeping in mind they already have an extra 200 without lifting a finger)

I can understand this approach if say I bought say a car on finance missed payments, the first thing that the debt collectors are going to take is the car?
But in this case the couch has never left the store, if this was to go to the debt collectors shouldnt the couch be the first thing they take, and since its never left the store or the original packaging it should cover the cost of the debt?


Also if i was persued for the remaining amount through the courts, Im a right to believe they can only look for the production cost of the couch, without their profit margin?

Why did you buy a couch from a relative, knowing you had already bought a couch? It doesn't make sense. Surely the first thing you would have done is to check the contract and see if it was possible for you to cancel and on seeing that it wasn't, not to buy the couch from the relative.

Perhaps you should give the couch back to the relative and get your money back from them, or would they take you to court too?

howyegettinon1

CK73 wrote: »

Why did you buy a couch from a relative, knowing you had already bought a couch? It doesn't make sense. Surely the first thing you would have done is to check the contract and see if it was possible for you to cancel and on seeing that it wasn't, not to buy the couch from the relative.

Perhaps you should give the couch back to the relative and get your money back from them, or would they take you to court too?

I paid 100 for the new couch which is of better quality and much more comfortable, so at this point if i was to lose the deposit i would still be getting a bargain.

So it doest suit me to pay another 1100 for something I already have, this is down to the timing of the buy and the offer from the relative.

With a company this size you would expect them to have some leeway, it's not like i left it to the last day to cancel. Notice was given within 4 working days of placing the order

godtabh

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

I paid 100 for the new couch which is of better quality and much more comfortable, so at this point if i was to lose the deposit i would still be getting a bargain.

So it doest suit me to pay another 1100 for something I already have, this is down to the timing of the buy and the offer from the relative.

With a company this size you would expect them to have some leeway, it's not like i left it to the last day to cancel. Notice was given within 4 working days of placing the order

why would you expect them to have leeway? They are a business not a charity

ABajaninCork

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

I paid 100 for the new couch which is of better quality and much more comfortable, so at this point if i was to lose the deposit i would still be getting a bargain.

So it doest suit me to pay another 1100 for something I already have, this is down to the timing of the buy and the offer from the relative.

With a company this size you would expect them to have some leeway, it's not like i left it to the last day to cancel. Notice was given within 4 working days of placing the order

You're still not getting it. YOU signed a contract promising to buy a sofa from DFS. Without reading and understanding it. The contract is binding. It's irrelevant that your relative offered you a better quality sofa for far less money. DFS won't care about that. They want their money. Pay them.

When the sofa comes in - sell it. Simple. Why are you making it so hard for yourself?

CK73

ABajaninCork wrote: »

You're still not getting it. YOU signed a contract promising to buy a sofa from DFS. Without reading and understanding it. The contract is binding. It's irrelevant that your relative offered you a better quality sofa for far less money. DFS won't care about that. They want their money. Pay them.

When the sofa comes in - sell it. Simple. Why are you making it so hard for yourself?

Why did he go for a high end sofa if money was tight? It makes no sense agreeing to buy a sofa that he considers to be of inferior quality. Why would you do that? Unless the quality only came into focus when a sofa was offered practically free?

Seems like a lack of communication all round. Didn't the relative know they wanted a sofa? Why wait until they have signed a contract to offer them the sofa?

I'm guessing it's one of those situations where talking about the sofa they had bought, resulted in being told they could have had one practically free and without thinking, they said yes.

Now, you've only lost €100 in the end and I'm assuming you don't have room in your house for another sofa, so the answer is to sell it and try and sell it before delivery, so you can get it delivered to the new persons home. I am assuming there are pictures of the sofa on their site? Under cut their price by €200, with free delivery and you may get yourself a sale.

Bepolite

godtabh wrote: »

why would you expect them to have leeway? They are a business not a charity

ABajaninCork wrote: »

You're still not getting it. YOU signed a contract promising to buy a sofa from DFS. Without reading and understanding it. The contract is binding. It's irrelevant that your relative offered you a better quality sofa for far less money. DFS won't care about that. They want their money. Pay them.

When the sofa comes in - sell it. Simple. Why are you making it so hard for yourself?

Because when one is dealing as a consumer a certain amount of give is expected, as when dealing with consumers who are never the brightest bunch of people - I mean that as a general term not directed at the OP. Most of us are like kids in a sweetshop when we're out shopping.

If consumers didn't need protection due to the fact they are not on an equal footing with the business we wouldn't need consumer legislation would we? What did people expect the OP to do? Go through the contract line by line an negotiate each clause? DFS have the OP's deposit, they don't make bespoke furniture, they make the same crap for everyone - albeit - roughly to the number of orders they have. The retailer will easily sell the sofa on, probably for full price.

All this aside this is shocking customer service.

ABajaninCork

Shocking customer service or not, it is what it is. I've dealt with DFS in the past, and know they won't budge. So I think the best thing is for the OP to extricate themselves as painlessly as possible. Which is what I've been advising. It's not what he wants to hear, but IMO it's the best solution.

And no - I don't go through contracts line by line. But there is usually a clause about cooling off periods and the fact the deposit is non-refundable is there not? And you don't have to look too hard for it either...

Why on earth have contracts if the clients can break them at will?

Bepolite

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Why on earth have contracts if the clients can break them at will?

The loss should be proportionate. A loss of a €200 deposit is exactly that. This concept isn't new to contract law. Exclusion clauses, penalty clauses and things that amount to them are not well received.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

ABajaninCork

Nah. DFS will just pass the debt on to a collection agency. The OP already said so...

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

CK73

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

He could end up in the small claims court and have to pay them a small monthly fee, but this would also impact on his credit rating, which I doubt he would want.

brannid3

Could you not just ask, out of good faith, for a credit note for the value of what you have given? Does the contract say anything about a period of change of mind and allow for the purchase of a lesser value?

I'm afraid the ball is in their court as you signed over.

Bepolite

CK73 wrote: »

He could end up in the small claims court and have to pay them a small monthly fee, but this would also impact on his credit rating, which I doubt he would want.

Do you have anything to back up that statement?

howyegettinon1

Bepolite wrote: »

Because when one is dealing as a consumer a certain amount of give is expected, as when dealing with consumers who are never the brightest bunch of people - I mean that as a general term not directed at the OP. Most of us are like kids in a sweetshop when we're out shopping.

If consumers didn't need protection due to the fact they are not on an equal footing with the business we wouldn't need consumer legislation would we? What did people expect the OP to do? Go through the contract line by line an negotiate each clause? DFS have the OP's deposit, they don't make bespoke furniture, they make the same crap for everyone - albeit - roughly to the number of orders they have. The retailer will easily sell the sofa on, probably for full price.

All this aside this is shocking customer service.

Thank you!
Also as a consumer you take a risk handing a deposit over, what if the company goes bust?
Where does that leave the consumer? How much will it cost you to get you to get your 200 euro deposit back, in the end would you even get it back?

Both parties take are taking a risk here, as a consumer you never want to hand over the full amount in the case the you never recieve the goods, as a business you have a minimum amount to cover you loses if the consumer walks away.

howyegettinon1

brannid3 wrote: »

Could you not just ask, out of good faith, for a credit note for the value of what you have given? Does the contract say anything about a period of change of mind and allow for the purchase of a lesser value?

I'm afraid the ball is in their court as you signed over.

Good faith an DFS dont go together. I am willing to forfit the deposit to cover their loss, even at that the want to take legal action.

howyegettinon1

CK73 wrote: »

Why did he go for a high end sofa if money was tight? It makes no sense agreeing to buy a sofa that he considers to be of inferior quality. Why would you do that? Unless the quality only came into focus when a sofa was offered practically free?

Seems like a lack of communication all round. Didn't the relative know they wanted a sofa? Why wait until they have signed a contract to offer them the sofa?

I'm guessing it's one of those situations where talking about the sofa they had bought, resulted in being told they could have had one practically free and without thinking, they said yes.

This is not a question of money being tight,
Option 1 pay 1400 for a brand new sofa, happy days!!
Option 2 save 1100 and get a better sofa! (just to gauge the quality the rellies sofa cost 3,500 new)

Which one would you pick?