Advice on selecting a .308 rifle ruger/Remington/marlin

James23H

Hi all,

As the title states I'm looking at various .308 rifles as I'm keen on starting deer hunting and long range target shooting. I'm hoping people on here have some experience with the following and I'd appreciate your feedback on the gun! The guns I'm considering at the minute are;

Remington 700 sps varmint
Ruger American
Marlin xl7

At the minute I'm shooting a .223 Remington 700 and find it excellent. Value for money the ruger seems excellent at €600 new so I'd appreciate any feedback from an owner of one?

If anyone has any recommendations outside the guns I mentioned let me know!!

Thanks in advance to all those who can help!

FISMA

James23H,

Have you prices or a budget in mind?

meathstevie

Don't overlook CZ either, they're around the same price bracket as what you've been looking at and they're a fine gun for their price. They're essentially a tried and tested classic Mauser type action that has proven it's merits for well over a century by now.

James23H

I'm thinking 700/750 as the budget but as you know yourself that can change depending on the gun. I'd also be willing to trade my rem 700 .223 in against my new purchase, but with the ruger and marlin both under €600 new I'd just buy straight than trade in.

Any ideas as to why the ruger American is so cheap in comparison to other rifles in this caliber? I've heard about the accuracy issue due to the barrel over hearing with repeated shots, but this is when lads were doing reviews and doing the dog on it and going through 20 or more rounds without letting it cool.

Will look up CZ as well! Thanks for that!

clivej

If I were you I'd be looking at something better second-hand. You'll get a good Tikka, Sako rifle for that same money

James23H

I considered that, at the minute my aim is to buy brand new so I'm on a set budget as I need to take the mod, threading of the barrel and a scope into account as well.
Was quoted €1600 on a new sako, any ideas as to what a tikka lite new/second hand would set you back?

Cass

James23H wrote: »

Was quoted €1600 on a new sako, any ideas as to what a tikka lite new/second hand would set you back?

A brand new Sako A7 in whatever caliber you want will set you back €1,400. That is trade price, and not cash price. So with your budget and your .223 as a trade you can easily hit that number.




With the above three rifles i'd say this:

• The Ruger - Cheap for a reason. Never fired one, but have shot many other models and never liked any of them. I know that;s my opinion, but they are cheaper than a CZ and feel every bit of it.
• The Marlin XL7 - Have shot this and i would advise you run for the hills. No offence to owners of this rifle, but my God. The barrel is literally the size of your pinky finger. The forend is flimsy and weak, and the gun feels as cheap as it's price.
• Remington SPS - About the best of the three you named. Reliable enough, but by no means a Sako or Tikka. Room for improvement if you wanted to do proper target shooting, but welll capable of performing as is.

A brand new Tikka can be bought in Hunter or synthetic model from €950 upward. While i don't like the hardened synthetic stock i cannot fault the brand for performance.


Whatever you decide please don't buy based on it being cheap. There is a reason, and because of the time it takes to get a license you could be waiting a while to realise your shiny new gun is not what you thought it would be.

James23H

Thanks Cass,

Appreciate the info and the feedback, huge fan of the rem 700 sps varmint and a friend of mine swears by it for accuracy. I've had a few shots with it and its a great gun in my opinion but i'm biased as i love remingtons!
Originally this was my first choice but my local dealer told me about the ruger and for €600 it had me interested but I know very little about them and very few seems to know much about it in .308 caliber. I don't want to get the cheapest of the bunch, but as you can imagine I don't want to break the bank either!

had a feeling that would be the case with the marlin!

I'm hoping to hold onto my .223 for foxing and smaller distance target shooting, the .308 is for deer hunting and long range target shooting but your right, I want to buy once and buy right!

I'll look into second hand tikka's, Cheers Cass

FISMA

James23H wrote: »

Any ideas as to why the ruger American is so cheap in comparison to other rifles in this caliber?

Prices can be a tricky thing.

I believe that companies on occasion either lose money or break even on products in order to gain market share.

Not too long ago, in the States, we could buy almost two SPS's for the price of a Tikka.

Nowadays, it appears that Remington understands that quantitative easing translates to a cheaper dollar, but Tikka does not. A Tikka T3 Lite is now cheaper than an SPS. However, I have no idea if this is what Ruger is doing.

Have a look around at some good used guns. Put the Howa 1500 on your list as well. The 1500 will be hard to beat in price for performance.

+1 for the 700's. I have several and find their accuracy and precision to be top notch.

ejg

Longer range hunting/target screams for a semi custom, in that case your best bet is remmy closely followed by T3. I for one don't think a Sako or Tikka barrel is more accurate than a remmy barrel, actually my bet would be on the remmy barrel. Factory triggers are much better on Sako/Tikka than remmy standard. No rifle is perfect out the box.
edi

meathstevie

ejg wrote: »

Longer range hunting/target screams for a semi custom, in that case your best bet is remmy closely followed by T3. I for one don't think a Sako or Tikka barrel is more accurate than a remmy barrel, actually my bet would be on the remmy barrel. Factory triggers are much better on Sako/Tikka than remmy standard. No rifle is perfect out the box.
edi

I dare doubt that, you'll be facing a very hard task trying to improve any of the Anschutz bolt action stuff.

James23H

Cheers lads!, keep the information coming! First choice is either a Remington sps varmint (personal choice love the gun) or a new/used tikka t3. But hard to overlook the ruger at €600. Great gun by all reports!

Can anyone recommend a good gun dealer to go too? I've dealt with duffys in Galway before, any one else recommend any others? Want to view as many as possible before I finally decide!

Ghost.

You seem to be quite keen on the ruger american. Have you handled one yet? They have a very cheap feel. So too has the marlin. That said i found this report on a site from a guy who was using one in 243.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=516765

If I paid €600 for a gun and it grouped like that at 650 yards with factory ammo id be a happy camper. I think thats an impressive result from such a cheap gun. But Id be secptical about the reviews I read from the US sites.

If I were you though Id look for a second hand CZ, they are really good guns and you will pick a nice clean one up for around the same money and it would be far better quality and value. After that Id look at the howas. Or a second hand tikka, but they to have a plasticy feel to them Im not fond of. A bit like the remington sps a new nicer stock would be a big improvement.

Id rule out the remington sps varmint if its a lot of deer hunting you are doing because of the weight alone. If its mainly target and the odd deer then go for it. But I think remington sps are a bit expensive for what you get. If you want to spend more money customising it into what you want it would be the gun for you. But then when its all added up you might have the price of a sako or better.

Its going to be hard to get a factory gun that can be used for deer hunting and long range target shooting equally well, if not impossible.

juice1304

Don't overlook savage when looking for an accurate rifle out of the box and for a factory trigger the accutrigger is hard to beat. Mine came from teh factory set at about 1.5lbs and it is crisp. Lovely rifles and if you ever want to change the barrel you can do it yourself once you have some headspace gauges.

FISMA

juice1304 wrote: »

Don't overlook savage when looking for an accurate rifle out of the box and for a factory trigger the accutrigger is hard to beat.

+1. Savages are a great deal. I love my 110 and for its price, the Model 12 FTR is hard to beat.

James23H - the great thing about the 700 is the plethora of parts that you can get for it. There will always be one in my safe.

When you say that you want to shoot long distances, what do you consider long distances? Some people consider 600-800ya long distances. Some lads I know consider 1760long distance.

A standard hunting rifle will have a 22" or 24" barrel. For bigger calibers, you may wish to push that to 26". However, if you are going to use on mod, you'll want to go shorter. A 20" will not suffer any problems in accuracy or precision in most hunting applications.

For long distance, I prefer 30" barrels or more. I was looking at a Sako TRG in 338LM for long distance work but thought that the 69cm barrel was a bit anemic, especially given the price, for what I had in mind.

Point being: you're kind of in two different worlds. Give us a bit more info and maybe we can help you compromise. My bog standard 22" 700 in 30-06 is accurate and precise using top notch factory ammo out to 600ya and farther when fed a custom diet.

Although, I do not have one, the Ruger American looks like a nice rifle.

What model were you looking at? Correct me if I am wrong, you get

1. A 3-5lb adjustable trigger
2. Free floated barrel
3. power bedded stock
4. rotary drop free magazine

That's a lot of rifle. I like the drop magazine - something that the Savage 110 has as well. That is a really nice option to have from the factory.

Cass wrote: »

A brand new Tikka can be bought in Hunter or synthetic model from €950 upward.

:eek:
Unbelievable that the T3's can sell in the States for under €400.

ejg

meathstevie wrote: »

I dare doubt that, you'll be facing a very hard task trying to improve any of the Anschutz bolt action stuff.

Another overengineered Euro rifle.
Spoke to the old owner of that company a few years back and didn't like his attitude towards new materials, products and quality.
edi

TriggerPL

+ 1 on the savage , anyone I know with a Remington's alway seem to be changing bit , trigger etc !

TriggerPL

ejg wrote: »

Another overengineered Euro rifle.
Spoke to the old owner of that company a few years back and didn't like his attitude towards new materials, products and quality.
edi

Seriously ! Anschutz rifles in rimfire are the best rifles I've ever had the pleasure of using , just beautiful in ur hands

James23H

Cheers FISMA,

Have my rem 700 sps .223 and I'd be hard pushed to let it go!!

Distance wise I have areas 400-700y around where I live.

I have distance's ranging from 200 yards to 800 yards close to where I live so i'm after a rifle capable of shooting these distances accurately, I'm living in Tipperary myself and I'm waiting on the devils bit range to reopen and I will hopefully then have access to this range. So the maximum I can see myself shooting (target wise) is 600-1000yards (that's probably the absolute maximum).

I would be putting a moderator on it yes, noise reduction around where I live is a must.

Ya the ruger american comes standard at that, which is what has me interested to be honest! Ah stop! €400 for a t3..

Hope this helps lads!

Cass

FISMA wrote: »

+1. Savages are a great deal. I love my 110 and for its price, the Model 12 FTR is hard to beat.

Absolutely.

One poster said above no rifle is perfect put of the box. Well the Savage FTR model 12 does. Without anything done to it it is a serious 1,000 yard rifle.

However if it's the case of a dual purpose rifle then absolutely. No rifle will do both to the desired effects. IOW the Savage would be great for long range, but a brute to carry for hunting. Other lighter rifle designed for hunting would not "keep up" with a proper target rifle.

:eek:
Unbelievable that the T3's can sell in the States for under €400.

Don't get me started lad. The Ruger American is on sale in the states for $260. Average/normal price is $450. That's somewhere between €190 - €330. Same with the Savage SR-TR i wanted 2 years ago. Seen them for $500 in the states. That's €370. When they came here the price was €860. Even if i paid the export fee, bought the rifle myself and shipped it myself the most it would cost me was €650. So you have to wonder how much money is being made when a main importer wants another €200 on top of that.

James23H wrote: »

So the maximum I can see myself shooting (target wise) is 600-1000yards (that's probably the absolute maximum).

If it's informal plinking or just to see what you can do most 24" barreled rifles will just make this distance. The accuracy is another issue altogether. With most bullets being subsonic by the time they reach the 800 mark meaning you've lost the ability to accurately shoot and you may get keyholing, etc.

Barrel size, as well as length, comes into play. A light barrel like the Marlin has would be terrible here. Far too light and would suffer over heating after a few shots. The Ruger looks to be similar. So a heavier barrel is needed. Minimum length would be 24". Longer is better, but for hunting you need to find the point at which you can target shoot and still use it effectively for hunting.

Basically you are trying to get a gun to do what is was designed fro and what is was NOT designed for. So my advice would be to buy depending on what you spend the majority of your time doing. So if you hunt for 0 - 90% of the time then make a hunting rifle your focus. Whatever target shooting you can do with is is secondary and you can still push the rifle to it's maximum distance whenever you feel like it.

meathstevie

ejg wrote: »

Another overengineered Euro rifle.
Spoke to the old owner of that company a few years back and didn't like his attitude towards new materials, products and quality.
edi

Hm, I reckon hundreds of champion shooters may beg to differ. What's wrong with being a bit conservative in ones approach from time to time ? Newer isn't necessarily better. Quality steel combined with quality wood and excellent craftsmanship will still turn out a quality sporting firearm any day of the week.

clivej

Just to add to the "I want to hunt and target shoot" debate.
I have a Sako 75 varmint .308, the laminated stock fluted barrel version. The scope is a Bushnell 4200 elite 6-24x50mm. I did pillar bed it and fitted a picatinny rail. Great rifle and shoots as good as it looks.

Now when I was looking to buy a large calibre rifle my first choice was the calibre then the rifle. I too wanted one to deer stalk with in the winter months but also to target shoot in the summer. IMO this is as close to doing both as I could get. It has served me well for stalking taking many deer and only this May I got to shoot it in FTR in the Phoenix comp. at Bisley in the UK @400/500/600 yards. I think I held my own there amongst the real FTR rifles coming a respectable 15th. I was only using a front bi-pod and no back rest. This as well as other comps. @100/200/300 yards.

And remember to get the best you can afford to get, Feel the pain once.

It wasn't me!

meathstevie wrote: »

Hm, I reckon hundreds of champion shooters may beg to differ. What's wrong with being a bit conservative in ones approach from time to time ? Newer isn't necessarily better. Quality steel combined with quality wood and excellent craftsmanship will still turn out a quality sporting firearm any day of the week.

To be honest, it's not terribly relevant, but Anschutz are not the titans of the competition world they once were when they had a much more substantial market share. Of the main manufacturers, their barrels seem on average to be behind Walther's, their actions are longer and less ergonomic to load than anything else they're competing against and their trigger is no better than anything. In fact, its main feature is how easy it is to work with. The Walther seems to be a sharper unit though, and all of this is without looking at Bleiker, whose market share is out of all proportion to their production volume relative to any of the others, who make far and away the best triggers, most ergonomically friendly actions, buy in great barrels and operate rigid quality control on them and put together really super rifles. Anschutz's reputation is built on history, but right now, they're not making the best rifles out there, and I shoot one myself. You only have to look at the top thirty in ISSF men's prone world ranking and see that only four are shooting Anschutz rifles with Anschutz barrels. Given the company's comparative dominance in terms of global market share, that's a ****e number.

ger115

meathstevie wrote: »

I dare doubt that, you'll be facing a very hard task trying to improve any of the Anschutz bolt action stuff.

hi mate I have a CZ 750 sniper 308. shooting all day out at 800m . I shoot there most of the year u will get watt u pay for look um up ... best of look

ejg

meathstevie wrote: »

Hm, I reckon hundreds of champion shooters may beg to differ. What's wrong with being a bit conservative in ones approach from time to time ? Newer isn't necessarily better. Quality steel combined with quality wood and excellent craftsmanship will still turn out a quality sporting firearm any day of the week.

How many competition shooters are using their centre fire range of rifles? Is there one single Anschuetz 308 F/TR at the comps..anywhere?
You are right with rimfire rifles they have a very good reputation but we are talking 308 here.
Of course you are also right that a bit conservative can be good and that not every new thing automatically means better however if we overdo that approach we'd still be using spears.
edi