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Season 4 Finale : HAVE read the books - spoilers possible

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    #152
    Mr.Prodston
    Registered Users Posts: 16,304 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Prodston


    Mr.Prodston wrote: »

    Also how the hell did the men in the Eyrie just leave Westeros' most wanted man and Arya Stark, you know one of the most important people in the realm who is presumed dead just leave? It just doesn't add up.

    Seriously though this still annoys me. Is it just a massive plot hole from the butterfly effect of changing the story which we're meant to ignore?

    Maybe it's trivial but I find it so difficult to believe that they would be just let go.


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    #153
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,151 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Mr.Prodston wrote: »
    Seriously though this still annoys me. Is it just a massive plot hole from the butterfly effect of changing the story which we're meant to ignore?

    Maybe it's trivial but I find it so difficult to believe that they would be just let go.

    Yeah it made no sense to even have that scene, though I suppose if he was still taking Arya to the Aerie there would have been much less of a reason or Brienne to attack him.


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    #154
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    Mr.Prodston wrote: »
    Seriously though this still annoys me. Is it just a massive plot hole from the butterfly effect of changing the story which we're meant to ignore?

    Maybe it's trivial but I find it so difficult to believe that they would be just let go.

    How would the Knights of the Vale have known the Hound was a wanted man? Tywin hardly sent Lady Lysa a raven personally. Very little time had passed since Tywin put a bounty on him so word probably hadn't spread.

    As for Arya, unless she explicitly said "Let me in", they probably wouldn't invite her in. It was her Aunt she was looking for, her Aunt was dead, so why go in?


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    #155
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭Daith


    username123 wrote: »
    As for Arya, unless she explicitly said "Let me in", they probably wouldn't invite her in. It was her Aunt she was looking for, her Aunt was dead, so why go in?

    Yup especially if they know that Baelish is in charge. The last time Arya saw him, Baelish was helping Tywin.


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    #156
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    Daith wrote: »
    Yup especially if they know that Baelish is in charge. The last time Arya saw him, Baelish was helping Tywin.

    I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be making any decisions re visitors. Surely only if a visitor says "let me in", do they send a message up to Lady Lysa and see what her instructions are? Seeing as she is dead, it's one of those situations where no one is officially in charge and they probably haven't been instructed what to do.


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    #157
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭Daith


    username123 wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be making any decisions re visitors. Surely only if a visitor says "let me in", do they send a message up to Lady Lysa and see what her instructions are? Seeing as she is dead, it's one of those situations where no one is officially in charge and they probably haven't been instructed what to do.

    Well I assume the guards know that Lysa married Petyr? So Petyr would have to be in charge?

    I assumed it went like this

    "Your aunt is dead"
    "Ha ha ha ha.........ha ha"
    "Who's in charge?"
    "Lord Petry Baelish"
    Arya and The Hound exchange a look
    Arya and The Hound leave.


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    #158
    mewso
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 8,821 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    I love the certainty here that Lady you know who will make an appearance. To me is very obvious they are considering leaving her out completely or they would not have missed an opportunity here. You can talk about how it works better without her at the season's end but in TV land a good cliff-hanger ending is considered gold. If they were sure she was going to appear at any point I think we would have seen something here. She may well appear but I'm not convinced they have decided on it yet.

    Someone else also mentioned Arya possibly warging into Nymeria at some point. This is another thing that is blatant by now. It looks to me like they have no intention of anyone other than Bran showing any warging capabilities.

    These are clues to me of decisions that have been made. Many changes have been very good in the show but others have stood out they have been so clumsy/bad. And no doubt those that defend the show by saying, for example, that LS will show up next season will defend it if she doesn't too. I don't really have strong feelings one way or another on changes. I find some bad, some good but I'm not going to attack/defend them over zealously.

    I was disappointed with the final episode on may levels but I get that others thought it was fine. Brienne meeting the Hound and Arya to me was ridiculous but in terms of the show made sense to make things happen (Hound dying, something for Brienne to do) never mind the Hound and Arya reaching the Eyrie last week only to have left without any issue.

    The skeletons might have been a nice nod to Harryhausen but in terms of the world of Ice and Fire it made zero sense. We have wights/walkers and at no point is there a suggestion there might be skeletons lying in wait under the snow (at the most northerly part of the world no less - must get bored).

    I think they chickened out of the Jaime/Tyrion confrontation and had no trust in the viewers about the Tysha background story whatsoever (perhaps well founded) so we lose out on some really powerful stuff from the books because TV viewers. Oh well.

    Next season is a big problem now for me. They have 2 more seasons to finish the whole thing if I'm not mistaken so season 5 will go well beyond where we are books wise which is a major dilemma in terms of watching it. On the other hand changes won't stand out of which there will no doubt be plenty.


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    #159
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭Daith


    mewso wrote: »
    Someone else also mentioned Arya possibly warging into Nymeria at some point. This is another thing that is blatant by now. It looks to me like they have no intention of anyone other than Bran showing any warging capabilities

    That was me I think (I love the direwolves :) )

    I think you could be right and Bran will remain the only warg really. At the same time I could easily see it be a shock to the audience when Arya gets blinded and it "awakes" her warg ability.

    I might be disappointed, I might not. I'm looking forward because even as a book reader I've no idea what they'll do.
    mewso wrote: »
    The skeletons might have been a nice nod to Harryhausen but in terms of the world of Ice and Fire it made zero sense.

    Ah here. We have resurrected zombies, people made of Ice, corpses without heads walking about but skeletons make no sense?


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    #160
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,151 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    There was strong hints that Rickon wargs/green sees in the show since he was having the same dreams about Ned that Bran was.

    I can see them ditching Arya's skills completely alright unless she starts warging into cats in Bravos but would be very surprised if Jon doesn't Warg at some stage as it seems like it would be a pretty essential part of his "death".


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    #161
    Mr.Prodston
    Registered Users Posts: 16,304 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Prodston


    username123 wrote: »
    How would the Knights of the Vale have known the Hound was a wanted man? Tywin hardly sent Lady Lysa a raven personally. Very little time had passed since Tywin put a bounty on him so word probably hadn't spread.

    As for Arya, unless she explicitly said "Let me in", they probably wouldn't invite her in. It was her Aunt she was looking for, her Aunt was dead, so why go in?

    What use is putting a bounty on somebody if you don't inform people of said bounty. If the Hound was suspected to be in the general area of the Riverlands then the Eyrie would be somewhere that was informed surely? It would probably be one of the few places that would receive a raven personally being one the 7 kingdoms.

    The guards have been employed by Lysa for quite a long time and would surely have heard through heresay if nothing else about the Stark downfall and be aware of the name Arya Stark. Littlefinger is Arya's Uncle by marriage, just because Lysa's dead doesn't really mean much.

    Following the logic of the show that's what you'd expect to happen. Look it doesn't really make a difference I guess but still.


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    #162
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,265 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    rawn wrote: »
    . Oh well. I hope the books will eventually tell us where whores go.
    They go everywhere!


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    #163
    Naux
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭Naux


    Daith wrote: »
    They just wanted enemies that the kids could kill. Otherwise why would people be afraid of walkers?

    I meant wights like the one Sam killed. Skeletons just looked ridiculous to me.

    If Sam killed one(wight) then the direwolf and Hodor could have handled one or two you'd imagine.


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    #164
    Nerdlingr
    Registered Users Posts: 4,385 ✭✭✭Nerdlingr


    Naux wrote: »
    I meant wights like the one Sam killed. Skeletons just looked ridiculous to me.

    If Sam killed one(wight) then the direwolf and Hodor could have handled one or two you'd imagine.

    They dont have dragon glass though.


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    #165
    Witcher
    Registered Users Posts: 14,474 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Naux wrote: »
    I meant wights like the one Sam killed. Skeletons just looked ridiculous to me.

    If Sam killed one(wight) then the direwolf and Hodor could have handled one or two you'd imagine.

    It was a White Walker that Sam killed.


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    #166
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,265 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Nerdlingr wrote: »
    They dont have dragon glass though.
    They could easily have found some on the way / been given some at any of the random meetings or have the children throw them weapons (we're making up things anyway).


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    #167
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,151 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Nerdlingr wrote: »
    They dont have dragon glass though.

    Don't need dragon glass for wights.


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    #168
    Witcher
    Registered Users Posts: 14,474 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Nody wrote: »
    They could easily have found some on the way / been given some at any of the random meetings or have the children throw them weapons (we're making up things anyway).

    Sam gave them each a piece before they parted ways.


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    #169
    Mr Freeze
    Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    They should have just used wights, as we have seen in the show already for that scene instead of the skeletons...

    People at work (who don't read the books) are asking what the skeletons were, I just said, Wights, same as anything else you have seen, despite the fact that they seemed to be super fast exploding sprinting out of the ground skeleton warriors straight out of Skyrim...


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    #170
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭Daith


    Mr Freeze wrote: »
    They should have just used wights, as we have seen in the show already for that scene instead of the skeletons...

    People at work (who don't read the books) are asking what the skeletons were, I just said, Wights, same as anything else you have seen, despite the fact that they seemed to be super fast exploding sprinting out of the ground skeleton warriors straight out of Skyrim...

    Bran's going to turn into a tree people. Skeletons are the least of your worries.


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    #171
    mewso
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 8,821 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    Daith wrote: »
    Ah here. We have resurrected zombies, people made of Ice, corpses without heads walking about but skeletons make no sense?

    That is not what I mean. We have a world where we have been shown certain things. Now we have been shown skeletons under the snow in a remote northern part of the world. Should we expect them elsewhere? Restricted to that part of the world? Under Kings Landing? It looked to me exactly as it was likely conceived. As something cool to throw in.


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    #172
    Mr Freeze
    Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    Daith wrote: »
    Bran's going to turn into a tree people. Skeletons are the least of your worries.

    I'd keep the skeletons and swap out the magic grenade throwing person! :pac:

    I think the whole turning into a tree thing is going to be seriously downplayed in the show if Bloodravens appearance is anything to go by!

    He just looked like an old guy in a throne made from roots! Not a dried ancient corpse with roots growing into him and coming out of him, including his eye!


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    #173
    razorblunt
    Registered Users Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    Reintroducing the Freys would work if they start dissappearing one by one.

    I also felt the skeletons were weak, I don't care if they were a nod or not. Fair enough you can't show kids beating White Walkers without Coldhands but why not make it an ice lake or something. Would have saved the poor fire grenades too.


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    #174
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭Daith


    mewso wrote: »
    That is not what I mean. We have a world where we have been shown certain things. Now we have been shown skeletons under the snow in a remote northern part of the world. Should we expect them elsewhere? Restricted to that part of the world? Under Kings Landing? It looked to me exactly as it was likely conceived. As something cool to throw in.

    Why are you not saying the same thing about Giants and mammoths or the children then?


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    #175
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,151 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Daith wrote: »
    Why are you not saying the same thing about Giants and mammoths or the children then?

    Because they have been long established in the show and are consistent with everything we know about the lore.

    The only way the skeletons make any sense is they are just really really old decomposed wights, but even then that's pretty tenuous (plus their eyes weren't glowing blue).

    I enjoyed the scene and wasn't really bothered by it but I get where people are coming from.


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    #176
    mewso
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 8,821 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    Daith wrote: »
    Why are you not saying the same thing about Giants and mammoths or the children then?

    I don't expect Giants to come out of nowhere. They have a background. They are mentioned more than once and shown more than once. Not thrown in to make the show cooler. If we see skeletons coming out of the ground several more times then fair enough but I suspect you just want me to cry about what is in the books and what is not. That is not my point. they can change the books all they want. Some of it might piss me off but at least make it less clumsily and less about shoehorning something cool in for the sake of it.


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    #177
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭Daith


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    Because they have been long established in the show and are consistent with everything we know about the lore.

    So because someone hasn't mentioned skeletons in the show before then it's impossible? Isn't the whole point of Bran's journey is that he's going further North than most people alive or dead?


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    #178
    mewso
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 8,821 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    Daith wrote: »
    So because someone hasn't mentioned skeletons in the show before then it's impossible? Isn't the whole point of Bran's journey is that he's going further North than most people alive or dead?

    Nobody has mentioned shape-shifting giant worms that spit acid. Hopefully next season.


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    #179
    Mr Freeze
    Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    I loved the bit in Mance's tent, drinking to Ygritte and Grenn and Mag!

    Thought that was great!


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    #180
    Nerdlingr
    Registered Users Posts: 4,385 ✭✭✭Nerdlingr


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    Don't need dragon glass for wights.

    Sorry, the poster mentioned "like the one sam killed". Which was a white walker. Hence the dragon glass reference.


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    #181
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭Daith


    mewso wrote: »
    Nobody has mentioned shape-shifting giant worms that spit acid. Hopefully next season.

    Only if it's cool though.


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