Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

LeeJM

Timmyctc wrote: »

I see the point you're going to make, but if United are to push on, the likes of Valencia are going to have to be absolute last choice backup. Raf (Obviously when fit) ahead of Maybe Jones/Smalling or Varela if he manages to make the step up would do if no RB is signed.

With the sale of Buttner it looks like a LB is coming in and he currently has a choice of Smalling/Evans/Jones for CB and maybe a youth player stepping up. Can see a CB coming in. We're stocked in ACM and Strikers so CM and the wings (Or a single wing if Nani gets game time) is all that would be imperative to the team.

Players like val are unnecessary imho.

He doesn't need to sign too many maybe 3 if he can get the best of whats there. Even till January.

Personally I dont ever wanna see Jones or Smalling at RB. They are CB's and thats where they should be played. Along with Evans and 1 new CB I think we are ok there.

At RB I'd keep Rafael as first choice for this season but if his discipline doesnt improve he needs replacing. IMO Valencia as back up for RB is fine and as you say maybe even Varela getting a game.

LB Shaw coming in and Buttner leaving is good business.

I think Hernandez could be off this summer but with RVP, Rooney and Welbeck as well as Wilson I dont expect a new striker.

Wings I dont expect anybody to leave or come in. CM will see the biggest changes. I think LVG will bring in 2 and lose 2 (Ando and Cleverly, also already down Giggs)

redbaron_99

LeeJM wrote: »

Personally I dont ever wanna see Jones or Smalling at RB. They are CB's and thats where they should be played. Along with Evans and 1 new CB I think we are ok there.

At RB I'd keep Rafael as first choice for this season but if his discipline doesnt improve he needs replacing. IMO Valencia as back up for RB is fine and as you say maybe even Varela getting a game.

LB Shaw coming in and Buttner leaving is good business.

I think Hernandez could be off this summer but with RVP, Rooney and Welbeck as well as Wilson I dont expect a new striker.

Wings I dont expect anybody to leave or come in. CM will see the biggest changes. I think LVG will bring in 2 and lose 2 (Ando and Cleverly, also already down Giggs)

Did you not see him at full back last season? The guy is not a full back. End of story. This is one of the main reasons that I got so p8ssed off about this contract. Varela is good young fullback who might not now get his chance, because Valencia is above him in the pecking order.

As another poster pointed out yesterday, this policy of playing average senior players ahead of top youngsters has hurt us in the past (Pogba). I would hate to see us lose more top young players because we have to justify the contracts of Valencia and others like him.

LeeJM

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Did you not see him at full back last season? The guy is not a full back. End of story. This is one of the main reasons that I got so p8ssed off about this contract. Varela is good young fullback who might not now get his chance, because Valencia is above him in the pecking order.

As another poster pointed out yesterday, this policy of playing average senior players ahead of top youngsters has hurt us in the past (Pogba). I would hate to see us lose more top young players because we have to justify the contracts of Valencia and others like him.

Yeah I saw him last season and he's not ideal as a RB but as experienced back up he's a good option. 4 games into the season and Rafael tears his ACL we are left with Smalling/Jones/Varela at RB and as i said before I never want to see Smalling or Jones at RB.

Yeah Varela MIGHT step up and be brilliant or he might be another John O'Kane. Its for that reason we need experience in the squad. Also the danger in changing a squad too much has been seen before ie Spurs

Mitch Connor

LeeJM wrote: »

Yeah I saw him last season and he's not ideal as a RB but as experienced back up he's a good option. 4 games into the season and Rafael tears his ACL we are left with Smalling/Jones/Varela at RB and as i said before I never want to see Smalling or Jones at RB.

Yeah Varela MIGHT step up and be brilliant or he might be another John O'Kane. Its for that reason we need experience in the squad. Also the danger in changing a squad too much has been seen before ie Spurs

but valencia is crap at right back. it doesn't matter that he is an experienced sernior player, he doesn't have a fecking clue what he is doing at right back. If we are creating a squad with him as a right back, we are building a BAD squad.

LeeJM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

but valencia is crap at right back. it doesn't matter that he is an experienced sernior player, he doesn't have a fecking clue what he is doing at right back. If we are creating a squad with him as a right back, we are building a BAD squad.

I see your point that he isnt brilliant at RB but in my opinion and thats all it is is my opinion he is a decent back up option if Rafael is injured or suspended and LVG doesnt fancy Varela.

redbaron_99

LeeJM wrote: »

Yeah I saw him last season and he's not ideal as a RB but as experienced back up he's a good option. 4 games into the season and Rafael tears his ACL we are left with Smalling/Jones/Varela at RB and as i said before I never want to see Smalling or Jones at RB.

Yeah Varela MIGHT step up and be brilliant or he might be another John O'Kane. Its for that reason we need experience in the squad. Also the danger in changing a squad too much has been seen before ie Spurs

Experience has nothing to do with it. You are playing a guy who is not good at defending in a defensive position. Rafeal is first choice. If he's injured we should be looking to Varela and also to Janko. These lads are full backs, they're good players and deserve to get a shot.
I was always under the impression that Van Gaal was a big promoter of young players.

redbaron_99

And if van gaal wanted to properly assess him, why didn't we give him a year extension on his existing contract? Let him earn a NEW contract.

LeeJM

He has previously been a big fan of promoting youth. Just gotta wait and see what he makes of the youth at the club. I know people will get carried away about his selections for friendlies and the tour etc but the first PL game will be the real answer to whether he fancies any of the young lads.

And yes the last bit of that sentence does sound a bit questionable ;-)

Mitch Connor

LeeJM wrote: »

the first PL game will be the real answer to whether he fancies any of the young lads.

disagree - would make more sense that the young players would be integrated and used over time, rather than they are either part of the first team on the first day or he doesn't fancy them.

redbaron_99

LeeJM wrote: »

He has previously been a big fan of promoting youth. Just gotta wait and see what he makes of the youth at the club. I know people will get carried away about his selections for friendlies and the tour etc but the first PL game will be the real answer to whether he fancies any of the young lads.

And yes the last bit of that sentence does sound a bit questionable ;-)

Januzaj might want to be careful with the soap

Larry Wildman

Timmyctc wrote: »

What is there to assess? A player that has been woeful for 3 years suddenly merits another 3 year contract? People seem to have this belief that Van Gaal will be the turd polisher to end all turd polishers when it comes to some of the dead wood in that squad.

You said Fellaini was a terrible player. That is not true. He's a good player that had one bad season. You're writing him off as an awful signing after one year yet defending giving Valencia getting yet another chance after having three consecutive years of being clearly awful.

Does Valencia have significant monetary value? Yes.

Does Van Gaal need time to assess his new squad? Yes.

Not renewing Valencia's contract would be idiotic. If Van Gaal doesn't like what he sees, we ship him off to Stoke/Sunderland/Everton/Wherever for (say) £7m.

Me not rating Fellaini and me being okay with Valencia's contract renewed aren't conflicting viewpoints. For example, just because I don't rate Fellaini, it doesn't mean that I think he should be sacked or released on a free. He too has a value and could be shipped out for a tidy sum. But I'd expect Van Gaal to want to see Fellaini up close too before he passes judgement.

It's funny that some posters expect Van Gaal to have an encyclopedic knowledge of Manchester United players when he's been up to his neck with the World Cup and preparations for same. I'd actually be surprised if he knows what Tom Cleverley looks like. I'd actually be surprised if he'd recognise Jonny Evans if he stood next to him in a bar. Yet some posters expect him to have his mind made up about who's in and who's out!!!

redbaron_99

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Does Valencia have significant monetary value? Yes.

Does Van Gaal need time to assess his new squad? Yes.

Not renewing Valencia's contract would be idiotic. If Van Gaal doesn't like what he sees, we ship him off to Stoke/Sunderland/Everton/Wherever for (say) £7m.

Me not rating Fellaini and me being okay with Valencia's contract renewed aren't conflicting viewpoints. For example, just because I don't rate Fellaini, it doesn't mean that I think he should be sacked or released on a free. He too has a value and could be shipped out for a tidy sum. But I'd expect Van Gaal to want to see Fellaini up close too before he passes judgement.

It's funny that some posters expect Van Gaal to have an encyclopedic knowledge of Manchester United players when he's been up to his neck with the World Cup and preparations for same. I'd actually be surprised if he knows what Tom Cleverley looks like. I'd actually be surprised if he'd recognise Jonny Evans if he stood next to him in a bar. Yet some posters expect him to have his mind made up about who's in and who's out!!!

Jesus, I thought you were serious earlier. Just reading that post I've realised now you are taking the p*ss.

Timmyctc

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Does Valencia have significant monetary value? Yes.

Does Van Gaal need time to assess his new squad? Yes.

No. No he doesn't.

We managed to sell an infinitely better player in Berbatov to fulham for £5m

And he was a player who oozed class and fired us to a league title.
Valencia has done sweet F.A. in three years. Absolutely no exaggeration but Valencia has done nothing to merit a new contract in 2-3 years.
He is as close to worthless as a top 10 side PL player can be.

Headshot

Nani scores

IvySlayer

Naniiiiiiii

Larry Wildman

redbaron_99 wrote: »

And if van gaal wanted to properly assess him, why didn't we give him a year extension on his existing contract? Let him earn a NEW contract.

Your argument is flawed because it's based on an assumption that Valencia has no monetary value and that no other club would want him.

There is no material downside to giving him a new contract. There is a big downside to not renewing his contract (the potential loss of an asset worth millions). Ergo, you give the man a new contract.

If after a season, Van Gaal doesn't fancy him, then by all means ship him out and get a decent fee.

Timmyctc

HON THE NANI

The_Kew_Tour

Sell him

MagicIRL

Delighted for Nani. Hope this boosts his morale and he returns to form.

n32

So thats Nani and Fellaini who have suddenly found their goalscoring touch again as soon as they take off a United shirt!

Vic Vinegar

Lovely dummy and finish from the Nanster.

Western Pomise

Nani after blasting in a goal v USA...would be great to see him score a hat trick!....as it would increase his value if sold or have him brimming with confidence returning after off season:

Timmyctc

n32 wrote: »

So thats Nani and Fellaini who have suddenly found their goalscoring touch again as soon as they take off a United shirt!

Its that heavy fibre of the united top. As soon as we take off the AON sponsor we'll be laughing.

Larry Wildman

Timmyctc wrote: »

No. No he doesn't.

We managed to sell an infinitely better player in Berbatov to fulham for £5m

And he was a player who oozed class and fired us to a league title.
Valencia has done sweet F.A. in three years. Absolutely no exaggeration but Valencia has done nothing to merit a new contract in 2-3 years.
He is as close to worthless as a top 10 side PL player can be.

Not a great comparison.

Berbatov was four years older (31 vs 27) and was on bigger money.

Is your suggestion that he should be just sacked? And do you think that he's worth less than £5m?

I could see a number of clubs happily paying at least £7m for Antonio Valencia to be honest.

Van.Bosch

wrote:

Not renewing Valencia's contract would be idiotic. If Van Gaal doesn't like what he sees, we ship him off to Stoke/Sunderland/Everton/Wherever for (say) £7m.

If this is the list of buyers does this not answer the question of whether he is good enough for Man Utd?

Larry Wildman

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Jesus, I thought you were serious earlier. Just reading that post I've realised now you are taking the p*ss.

When / where exactly am I taking the p..s?

Timmyctc

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Not a great comparison.

Berbatov was four years older (31 vs 27) and was on bigger money.

Is your suggestion that he should be just sacked? And do you think that he's worth less than £5m?

I could see a number of clubs happily paying at least £7m for Antonio Valencia to be honest.

Valencia is 29 in a month. He is a far inferior player and he is most certainly worth <5m.

redbaron_99

Larry Wildman wrote: »

When / where exactly am I taking the p..s?

You think the manager of Manchester United doesn't know what johny Evans looks like. I hope you are taking the p*ss.

Larry Wildman

Van.Bosch wrote: »

If this is the list of buyers does this not answer the question of whether he is good enough for Man Utd?

Maybe it does or maybe it doesn't.

The point is that there was nothing wrong with renewing his contract. Doing so protects the club. It was a sensible business decision.

Van.Bosch

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Maybe it does or maybe it doesn't.

The point is that there was nothing wrong with renewing his contract. Doing so protects the club. It was a sensible business decision.

I agree his contract just retains his value, so no problem with that. Just think LVG will know already or have a very good idea of whether AV is in his plans