Some people shouldn't be allowed have kids.

Reformed Character

The older I get the more I despair of some in this society.
I felt nauseous reading this story, not only because the list of convictions for violence but also because of how she abused the poor child.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/mum-of-toddler-found-with-beer-had-multiple-convictions-30348321.html
The 25-year-old woman was jailed for eight months for child cruelty and a further five months for possessing a flick-knife that was concealed in her bra.In June last year gardai found her two-year-old son sitting in a wet nappy, with a six-pack of beer between his legs and complaining of being hungry, after stopping a car at 11.45pm going the wrong way up a one-way street in a popular seaside town. Listowel District Court sitting heard the child was wearing only shorts and socks and was visibly sunburnt.
In March, she was jailed for five months for stealing a woman's handbag.During her arrest, she assaulted two gardai.Just days before that she received a suspended four-month sentence after she pleaded guilty to possession of a knife inside a courthouse.On the same day she was also jailed for theft while a charge for possessing drugs and other theft offences were taken into account.
What chance does that poor child have around her, other than grow up to be skanger like his skanger mammy!

mickydoomsux

Of course she's from Limerick city.

Banjo String

We were thinking of rescuing a dog a while back, the amount of paperwork and people that came out to the home to 'vett' us was unreal (though understandable considering what the poor dogs Prob went through already)

You need a license to keep a dog, and a tv (among many other things).

It is a sad fact that certain people should be denied the rights of parenthood.

keano_afc

Nice to see the stiff sentences she received put her off continuing on her current path of crime.

kylith

I see some people speaking to their kids like you wouldn't speak to your worst enemy; effing and blinding at them. What chance do those kids have when they grow up with such hostility, thinking that their own parents hate them? It makes me so sad.

homerjay2005

as they said, you need a licence to have a dog, but anybody is allowed to have children.

folan

how do you deny this right? forced sterilization? forced abortion? confiscating children from their birth parents after delivery?

in come countries, people arent allowed have more than 1 kid. Consider yourself lucky no one is sticking their nose into your womb!

you have a problem with bad parents, then report them. there are services dedicated to making sure children are not abused.

suicide_circus

Poor little fella, hope he is put into care with a stable loving family.

Plazaman

Poor wee lad, the first years of a childs life are crucial where they absorb everything from language to social skills to moral imperatives.

How has he a chance when all he knows or learned from his mother is drinking and crime which he'll probably think is the norm and so the cycle continues. Hopefully his grandparents can readjust him to a normal life so that he doesn't end up another scumbag.

Pumpkinseeds

I keep coming across stories in the media of parents who are repeat offenders with chronic alcoholic/drug addiction using their addiction and the fact that they are the sole parent in a family to avoid jail. I honestly don't know how a child or children being left in an environment where their sole guardian is unable to take care of themselves let alone a child.

Leaving a child in that kind of environment is depriving a child of the opportunity to make something of their lives. I think those kids should be taken away from the parent/parents and it should be down to the parents to clean up their acts and prove that they can provide a stable safe environment for their kids.

Pizzle

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Of course she's from Limerick city.

Yeah, of course. Not like it could happen in any other city.

westcoast66

My solution: Vasectomies all boys at the age of 12.

Reverse the operation on request when the couple choose to have a child. Vasectomise the man again when the woman is giving birth.

KTRIC

I know, take the kids off them and put them in a home somewhere in the West. A good upbringing by a couple of nuns and they'll be on the straight and narrow in no time. Sure whats the worst that could happen.....

Tilly

I'm not a huge fan of kids but she is fúcking disgusting. She should have been locked up for longer. Scummy knacker!

SterlingArcher

Pizzle wrote: »

Yeah, of course. Not like it could happen in any other city.

Phew ,thank god It's just contained to that urine soaked heck hole. They should build a wall around that place, and have a hunger games.

nc19

Plazaman wrote: »

Poor wee lad, the first years of a childs life are crucial where they absorb everything from language to social skills to moral imperatives.

How has he a chance when all he knows or learned from his mother is drinking and crime which he'll probably think is the norm and so the cycle continues. Hopefully his grandparents can readjust him to a normal life so that he doesn't end up another scumbag.

Where do you think the mother got it from?

folan

westcoast66 wrote: »

My solution: Vasectomies all boys at the age of 12.

orlds youngest dad was 11 afaik.

never mind the dangers

Reformed Character

folan wrote: »

how do you deny this right? forced sterilization? forced abortion? confiscating children from their birth parents after delivery?

in come countries, people arent allowed have more than 1 kid. Consider yourself lucky no one is sticking their nose into your womb!

you have a problem with bad parents, then report them. there are services dedicated to making sure children are not abused.

Remove them from their parents and allow them to be adopted for their own good without the consent of their skanger parent/s.

Neyite

KTRIC wrote: »

I know, take the kids off them and put them in a home somewhere in the West. A good upbringing by a couple of nuns and they'll be on the straight and narrow in no time. Sure whats the worst that could happen.....

Maybe they could do a bit of washing to help out too. Earn their keep like.

hoodwinked

Banjo String wrote: »

We were thinking of rescuing a dog a while back, the amount of paperwork and people that came out to the home to 'vett' us was unreal (though understandable considering what the poor dogs Prob went through already)

You need a license to keep a dog, and a tv (among many other things).

It is a sad fact that certain people should be denied the rights of parenthood.

i've heard the paper work to adopt is as if not more intense,

but you cannot stop people from having children as nobody can really judge who or what will make a good parent,

there are as many people who would think they would be terrible parents and as soon as the look into the eyes of their baby are changed forever. there are others who genuinely couldn't give two ****s about their child yet to the public eye are the most kind and doting parent.
and then there are cases like the op, where it's apparent to everybody they are a ****e parent.

so how would you go about assessing or regulating the different types of parenting?

Dr Turk Turkelton

westcoast66 wrote: »

My solution: Vasectomies all boys at the age of 12.

Reverse the operation on request when the couple choose to have a child. Vasectomise the man again when the woman is giving birth.

Is that not a bit sexist?
Why not get all the 12 year old girls tubes tied as well and then no one can complain?

rubberdiddies

keano_afc wrote: »

Nice to see the stiff sentences she received put her off continuing on her current path of crime.

it seems to me that judges really don't want to jail women.

I believe there are officially only 105 prison spaces in Ireland for women. This may have something to do with it!

Reformed Character

KTRIC wrote: »

I know, take the kids off them and put them in a home somewhere in the West. A good upbringing by a couple of nuns and they'll be on the straight and narrow in no time. Sure whats the worst that could happen.....

Piss poor attempt D- , must try harder!

caustic 1

I pity the vast majority of people from Limerick being tarred with the scummy brush every time something bad happens. There are people like this in every city, town and townland in the country.

Maximus Alexander

Eugenics has been tried before OP, it didn't go down so well.

Pumpkinseeds

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I keep coming across stories in the media of parents who are repeat offenders with chronic alcoholic/drug addiction using their addiction and the fact that they are the sole parent in a family to avoid jail. I honestly don't know how a child or children being left in an environment where their sole guardian is unable to take care of themselves let alone a child.

Leaving a child in that kind of environment is depriving a child of the opportunity to make something of their lives. I think those kids should be taken away from the parent/parents and it should be down to the parents to clean up their acts and prove that they can provide a stable safe environment for their kids.

On the one hand, it sounds like a good idea
On the other hand, you give people the power to take kids away and you get this
http://wgntv.com/2014/06/11/dad-nj-threatens-to-take-away-son-after-pencil-twirling-incident/

hoodwinked

caustic 1 wrote: »

I pity the vast majority of people from Limerick being tarred with the scummy brush every time something bad happens. There are people like this in every city, town and townland in the country.

yup i know parents worse than the op, and they live in one of the "posh" suburbs in Cork.

mickydoomsux

caustic 1 wrote: »

I pity the vast majority of people from Limerick being tarred with the scummy brush every time something bad happens. There are people like this in every city, town and townland in the country.

There's proportionately a lot more in Limerick city though. That's why it's a kip.

MarkR

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Of course she's from Limerick city.

Pfft. She was surrounded by Kerry people. When in Rome...

Thank the flying spaghetti monster nothing bad ever happened round your way. Ever.

Neyite

But people are still reluctant to call social services when they see the child in their estate who is verbally and physically abused, showing obvious signs of neglect.

They dont want to be seen to be 'nosy' or interfering. So it takes a random traffic stop to discover a badly sunburnt, hungry baby being driven around by a knife wielding drunk at 11pm for anything to happen.

How many more times before this did he go hungry? Was playing out on the street way past bedtime? Where there was a party going on in his house? Where he was inappropriately clothed for the weather? Neighbours must have seen something, or known that there were issues.

If I neglected my baby even once, its once too often, and I'd have no-one to blame but myself if social services turned up on my doorstep. Parenting is a priviledge, not a right.

daheff

Banjo String wrote: »

You need a license to keep a dog, and a tv (among many other things).

.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

as they said, you need a licence to have a dog, but anybody is allowed to have children.

Ah this is the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard (i think theres another thread in AH I should post this in also ). Any eejit can get a dog license (or a tv license)...all you have to do is pay for it...its more a tax than a license.


Back to the topic....the state should do more to protect children who have parents like that. Isnt that why we have social workers??

hoodwinked

Neyite wrote: »

But people are still reluctant to call social services when they see the child in their estate who is verbally and physically abused, showing obvious signs of neglect.

it's been done in our case, but the phrase "street angel, house devil" comes to mind, everytime they visit she comes out with "everything is fine here" and the kid backs her up for fear of being taken away.

Neyite wrote: »

How many more times before this did he go hungry? Was playing out on the street way past bedtime? Where there was a party going on in his house? Where he was inappropriately clothed for the weather? Neighbours must have seen something, or known that there were issues.

Neighbours generally do, but as i said above, nothing much can be done by the state in certain cases, and usually the worst ones until something like this happens.

Neyite wrote: »

If I neglected my baby even once, its once too often, and I'd have no-one to blame but myself if social services turned up on my doorstep. Parenting is a priviledge, not a right.

damn right, i feel 100% the same with my daughter, but then parents who think like that aren't the problem here.

Akrasia

Anyone who thinks there are any simple solutions to this problem are living in cloud cookoo land.

Each case should be treated separately. The only thing we as a society can do is increase the amount of resources we allocate to child protective services, and change the emphasis of the services away from 'the rights of the family' to a balance that hugely favours the rights of the children. This is what the recent childrens referendum was about. Parents don't have rights to have children if they are not prepared to look after them properly, but children do have a right to have their parents so we need to do as much as we can to protect their rights.

Where a young child is taken into protective custody, i would start the clock ticking very early and give the parent very short deadlines to demonstrate that they are prepared to make the changes necessary to raise a happy and well adjusted child and if the parents refuse or are unable, that child needs to be quickly moved into the adoption system to give him/her a chance to settle into a stable loving home as quickly as possible.

kylith

bluewolf wrote: »

On the one hand, it sounds like a good idea
On the other hand, you give people the power to take kids away and you get this
http://wgntv.com/2014/06/11/dad-nj-threatens-to-take-away-son-after-pencil-twirling-incident/

"a classmate claimed he was spinning the writing utensil like a gun."
How do you even twirl a pencil like a gun?

Neyite wrote: »

But people are still reluctant to call social services when they see the child in their estate who is verbally and physically abused, showing obvious signs of neglect.

They dont want to be seen to be 'nosy' or interfering. So it takes a random traffic stop to discover a badly sunburnt, hungry baby being driven around by a knife wielding drunk at 11pm for anything to happen.

How many more times before this did he go hungry? Was playing out on the street way past bedtime? Where there was a party going on in his house? Where he was inappropriately clothed for the weather? Neighbours must have seen something, or known that there were issues.

If I neglected my baby even once, its once too often, and I'd have no-one to blame but myself if social services turned up on my doorstep. Parenting is a priviledge, not a right.

I honestly think a lot of it is fear. If you make a call about neglect and the officials show up you'd better hope to hell that the parents never find out it was you who made that call or you will be in a world of pain.

denhaagenite

From breakingnews.ie

The child was taken into care after the incident, which occurred on June 8, 2013, in Ballybunion, Co Kerry, and was subsequently placed with his grandparents who continue to look after him, a court heard.

So he's not in "care", he's in the care of the people who raised either his mother or father to be such careless, abusive, dangerous w*nkers. I know we know nothing about the father, but the fact that he's not even present in this picture speaks volumes

The solicitor said that, since being jailed, she had turned things around, was doing well in the prison system and was drugs-free.
He also said she was in regular contact with her family and was looking forward to building a relationship with her child when released.

Bully for her. No justice for her child. What the f*ck is wrong with the system?

topper75

KTRIC wrote: »

I know, take the kids off them and put them in a home somewhere in the West. A good upbringing by a couple of nuns and they'll be on the straight and narrow in no time. Sure whats the worst that could happen.....

Hee hee.

Now that we have recomposed ourselves after laughing at your sarcasm, we need to look for a solution. Care to post again?

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Eugenics has been tried before OP, it didn't go down so well.

So we reverted to a liberal agenda - which produced this. And will continue to produce this - as though that woman's right to reproduce comes before the rights of society and her offspring. I would endorse sterilisation in extreme cases like this with no qualms. Right to reproduce should be forfeited in such cases of outrageous neglect.

nc19 wrote: »

Where do you think the mother got it from?

In fairness - I did not see any convictions against the grandparents. It is the best option in the circumstances. I wish that child the very best.

Reformed Character

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Eugenics has been tried before OP, it didn't go down so well.

I never suggested eugenics.
Pathetic post really, add nothing to the thread!

Maximus Alexander

Reformed Character wrote: »

I never suggested eugenics.
Pathetic post really, add nothing to the thread!

That's exactly what the thread title suggests.

Reformed Character

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

That's exactly what the thread title suggests.

I suggest you get somebody to bring you to specsavers!

galwayredgirl

I know some people who are parents and shouldn't be, because they are too stupid and are just foisting their stupidity and insecurities onto their children.

Can't fix stupid and it's amazing how really stupid people can get together with people as equally thick. Like they seem so thick that they couldn't find anything yet they find each other and procreate! Amazing!

They must have inbuilt thick homing devices.

It's not just a Limerick thing by the way.

Maximus Alexander

Reformed Character wrote: »

I suggest you get somebody to bring you to specsavers!

Ah yes, let's get personal. Good show old bean.

Aglomerado

galwayredgirl wrote: »

I know some people who are parents and shouldn't be, because they are too stupid and are just foisting their stupidity and insecurities onto their children.

Can't fix stupid and it's amazing how really stupid people can get together with people as equally thick. Like they seem so thick that they couldn't find anything yet they find each other and procreate! Amazing!

They must have inbuilt thick homing devices.

It's not just a Limerick thing by the way.

Mike Judge says it all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icmRCixQrx8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8rhIZJAdd0

osarusan

Reformed Character wrote: »

I suggest you get somebody to bring you to specsavers!

Limiting/forbidding the production of offspring from 'undesirables' is very much a part of eugenics.

DrumSteve

With all the recent revelations about the Mother and Baby homes and that around 180 children have died in state care in the last ten years; I'd be less than inclined to entrust any children to the state.

Then again it can't be much worse than having junkie parents can it?

Reformed Character

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Ah yes, let's get personal. Good show old bean.

FFS, Maximus, it is a witticism, oft used and in no way meant as an insult.
Apologies if it came across as anything else, my bad!:o

Reformed Character

osarusan wrote: »

Limiting/forbidding the production of offspring from 'undesirables' is very much a part of eugenics.

I never said anyone should be allowed to produce offspring.
Just that skangers like her should not be allowed keep them, they should be taken of people like that and adopted by court order.

Maximus Alexander

Reformed Character wrote: »

FFS, Maximus, it is a witticism, oft used and in no way meant as an insult.
Apologies if it came across as anything else, my bad!:o

Look, your original post suggests that certain people should not be allowed to have children. It doesn't mention anything about removing the kids from their custody, and in common English "have kids" is synonymous with "give birth".

Controlling who can and cannot have kids on the basis of some perceived level of quality or worth is eugenics. If you that's not what you meant, then say so - I just don't understand why you felt the need to get snarky and go on the offensive.

I feel like I've spent too much time even writing this post, because it doesn't seem like you actually want to talk about this.

Banjo String

folan wrote: »

how do you deny this right? forced sterilization? forced abortion? confiscating children from their birth parents after delivery?

in come countries, people arent allowed have more than 1 kid. Consider yourself lucky no one is sticking their nose into your womb!

you have a problem with bad parents, then report them. there are services dedicated to making sure children are not abused.

Well I didn't suggest banning people from becoming parents, I said it was a sad fact that some people should be denied the rights of parenthood.

I.e the act of caring for, and rearing children.

In this particular case, the mother should (at the very least) proven that she's been rehabilitating herself, and that she's capable of caring for the child.

A child quickly learns what it sees, and what it is subjected to after all.

minidazzler

westcoast66 wrote: »

My solution: Vasectomies all boys at the age of 12.

Reverse the operation on request when the couple choose to have a child. Vasectomise the man again when the woman is giving birth.

The children would never go through Puberty, so wouldn't ever actually be able to have children.... you've just killed the entire world.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

minidazzler wrote: »

The children would never go through Puberty, so wouldn't ever actually be able to have children.... you've just killed the entire world.

Problem solved so.

anncoates

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I keep coming across stories in the media of parents who are repeat offenders with chronic alcoholic/drug addiction using their addiction and the fact that they are the sole parent in a family to avoid jail. I honestly don't know how a child or children being left in an environment where their sole guardian is unable to take care of themselves let alone a child.

Leaving a child in that kind of environment is depriving a child of the opportunity to make something of their lives. I think those kids should be taken away from the parent/parents and it should be down to the parents to clean up their acts and prove that they can provide a stable safe environment for their kids.

It's wrong to leave kids there in those cases obviously but having a situation where it's easy to just remove kids forever from their parents without due care would be troubling too. It would also have troubling repercussions if you consider the amount of people that want to adopt. That's fine for serial neglecters that don't deserve children but you might have children taken away on other flimsier grounds like trumped up abuse or domestic type charges and whatever especially with inept badly resourced departments like you have here.

Your heart breaks for kids in this case and genuine people that want and can't have kids but we need to be careful about state power like that.