****Change to Charter-Please Read****

Micky Dolenz

Hello,

As most of you are aware, over the past couple of years Political threads have become more and more common in AH. We probably have 5 or 6 active threads in any given day. This isn't and was never the intended purpose of AH and the most obvious place for such discussion is the vibrant Politics forum and it's many sub forums.

If you are just a casual political observer, don't worry. The Politics Cafe is a great place for the lighter side of politics.


With immediate effect, we will be moving existing threads over to the best suited sub forum. The Politics Mods and ourselves are going to work very closely to make sure the transition is seamless.

Please do not post any more political threads in After Hours.

If you are unsure of where a thread you would like to start should be, please PM an AH or Politics mod.

Many thanks.

Reformed Character

I'm unsure if other suggestions for changes would be welcome but if I might, may I suggest that religion specific threads are diverted to the Religion forum , it would make AH a much better place where banter and humour could be best expressed.
Mods, please feel free to delete if this post is not appropriate to the thread.

El Guapo!

Reformed Character wrote: »

I'm unsure if other suggestions for changes would be welcome but if I might, may I suggest that religion specific threads are diverted to the Religion forum , it would make AH a much better place where banter and humour could be best expressed.
Mods, please feel free to delete if this post is not appropriate to the thread.

Suggestions for the forum are always welcome. We all think this move could be a great success and will benefit both forums.
For the moment, we'll just focus on the politics end of things and see how that goes for now.

kneemos

The one thread that was transferred to the Politics Cafe died a death.
Don't see people using it if nobody is home.

biko

Hopefully traffic will increase there once people can't post everything in AH?

Tombi!

I'm not one to pick up political threads but what exactly "is" allowed here?

I mean one of the arguments for a thread about something happening in Dublin was "is it just something about Dublin" or is it "something about Dublin that the country would care about".

It was in regards to the changes in Grafton Street I think it was; I think they were modifying some of the area.

So if that's allowed but something that's about Dublin only, like some shop in Grafton Street having an employee attacked, say. Does the same apply to political threads?

If so, can we have an example or two of something that's allowed?

strobe

Personally I think these "So this is how things are now, we've made a decision" threads, should be proceeded with a "so this is what we're thinking we'd like to do with you're forum, what do you think about things?" thread.

kneemos

strobe wrote: »

Personally I think these "So this is how things are now, we've decided" threads should be proceeded with a "so this is what we're thinking we'd like to do with you're forum, what do you think about things?" thread.[/


Like planning permission?

Tigger

What did the politics mods do to deserve this?

strobe

kneemos wrote: »

strobe wrote: »

Personally I think these "So this is how things are now, we've decided" threads should be proceeded with a "so this is what we're thinking we'd like to do with you're forum, what do you think about things?" thread.[/


Like planning permission?

Exactly like planning permission. Exactly. Only with even more bribes.

Ah you know what I mean. Seems these kinds of threads pop up occasionally where the mods, I presume, have gone away and discussed how the forum should be in their opinion, then implement it. And that's that. Would be nice for the other 99.9% of people to have their say.

And I say this as someone that agrees with most of the above unilateral decisions that have been made, cause I agree with them, but maybe lots don't, I don't know tbh, and no one else does ever, as there's no option to disagree with them. This is how things are now, so there, we've decided we want the forum this way. Seems to be the general attitude.

Micky Dolenz

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

I'm not one to pick up political threads but what exactly "is" allowed here?

I mean one of the arguments for a thread about something happening in Dublin was "is it just something about Dublin" or is it "something about Dublin that the country would care about".

It was in regards to the changes in Grafton Street I think it was; I think they were modifying some of the area.

So if that's allowed but something that's about Dublin only, like some shop in Grafton Street having an employee attacked, say. Does the same apply to political threads?

If so, can we have an example or two of something that's allowed?

90% of the threads are clearly about politics, so are clear cut. Of course there are the grey areas. We will have to take those on a case by case basis. As I said earlier if anyone one is unsure, ask and we will figure something out.

strobe wrote: »

Personally I think these "So this is how things are now, we've made a decision" threads, should be proceeded with a "so this is what we're thinking we'd like to do with you're forum, what do you think about things?" thread.

This isnt something we decided over a short time. We looked at the forum over the last few years and felt it was something that was turning AH into something it was never meant to be. We left this thread open so people could question the change. It's new terrority for us all.

Why do you disagree with the change?

strobe

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

This isnt something we decided over a short time. We looked at the forum over the last few years and felt it was something that was turning AH into something it was never meant to be. We left this thread open so people could question the change. It's new terrority for us all.

Why do you disagree with the change?

I don't disagree with the change particularly Micky. It's the nature of how the changes are brought in I've an issue with. You say this thread is left open for disagreement to be voiced. But I'm sure you see the difference in making a change and then saying (or not, as the case may be, as it was in this case and all previous cases) "Anyone got a problem with that?" and saying "So this is what we've been considering, what do you guys think before we make our decision?"

Ultimately I personally don't care very much at all, I'm just bored and can't sleep, and will care even less tomorrow or the next day when I log back on, but I think some people care just a little, and I still think it's a valid point. Do you not agree with my idea?

The Moldy Gowl

I'm glad, the first page is just crap threads with the same arguements. Sinn Fein that and bond holders this and enda is a gowl because I said so.

I stopped coming for a creep in here over the last 9 or so months because of it.

If I want politics I'll go to that forum.


Actually let's just have every thread about boobies and how funny it is when they jiggle?

Micky Dolenz

I kinda get your point but What happens then? We stick up a poll and put it to a vote? Sometime change is necessary. I believe that the large majority support this as its come up time and time in our regular feedback threads.

You have to believe we do things in the best interest of the forum and not just for the craic. This isn't just a couple of people making a decision. It's a lot of people discussing it at length with the information we have to hand.

strobe

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I kinda get your point but What happens then? We stick up a poll and put it to a vote? Sometime change is necessary. I believe that the large majority support this as its come up time and time in our regular feedback threads.

You have to believe we do things in the best interest of the forum and not just for the craic. This isn't just a couple of people making a decision. It's a lot of people discussing it at length with the information we have to hand.

I don't think changes are made just for a laugh or anything. I just think the majority should at the very least have their opinion heard before a decision is reached. I'm not suggesting a poll and majority rule per say, just let people have their say openly and ahead of time and allow the opinions expressed a chance to be considered.

That's my suggestion anyway, decide amongst yourselves if it has any merit.

Tombi!

Micky, things like "world news", are they still okay? The Ukraine thread, for example. That'd be fine, right? I assume so since it's still here.

And same would be okay for the Jobridge thread.

I mean both are politics but they seem more like "hey 90% of people would be interested maybe on AH" instead of it being just for people with an interest in poloticts.

I'm not asking for either to be removed or anything, BTW.

keith16

What's the craic with sports threads? Some are left and others are promptly shut down with the "AH is not for sports".

kneemos

The election threads can be quite interesting.Maybe an exception can be made at election time?
Generally the political threads are no great loss in fairness.A lot of it was people accusing each other of being a Shinbot or a FF supporter,tiresome and tedious.

Micky Dolenz

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Micky, things like "world news", are they still okay? The Ukraine thread, for example. That'd be fine, right? I assume so since it's still here.

And same would be okay for the Jobridge thread.

I mean both are politics but they seem more like "hey 90% of people would be interested maybe on AH" instead of it being just for people with an interest in poloticts.

I'm not asking for either to be removed or anything, BTW.

Both of them will stay in AH I would suspect. There will be a lot of threads more grey than them.

keith16 wrote: »

What's the craic with sports threads? Some are left and others are promptly shut down with the "AH is not for sports".

This was neve meant to be a general feedback thread but maybe we are due one over the summer at some point.

But to answer it, sports threads are generally a big no no. We do official ones for world cups and the like.

Tombi!

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Both of them will stay in AH I would suspect. There will be a lot of threads more grey than them.

Alright, grand so, cheers.

KKkitty

I was a lurker before I registered here and the forum I loved coming to more often than not was AH. Some threads here had me in stitches which was great and the threads were zany and hilarious thanks to AH being the most lighthearted forum here. With endless political threads now AH has lost its joie de vivre. I support the decision to move some but not all political threads to other more suitable forums.

Chucken

Nobody visits The Cuckoos Nest

We can be zany and hilarious too.

KKkitty

Chucken wrote: »

Nobody visits The Cuckoos Nest

We can be zany and hilarious too.

I'll pop over now Chucken

Chucken

Sorry Micky, don't want to derail the thread

the groutch

I hope this isn't the start of a slippery slope where everything gets redirected to other fora to a point that AH that members abandon it completely.

Dravokivich

the groutch wrote: »

I hope this isn't the start of a slippery slope where everything gets redirected to other fora to a point that AH that members abandon it completely.

I've always perceived AH to be primarily informal. Not that there's an issue or a lack of want for topical threads here. But that AH shouldn't become another place that something of a particular topic is found in abundance.

I've selected back randomly to a few hundred pages to the deep dark past of AH a couple of times and on each one of'em there were a lot of political threads. Sure it's an issue to the fore front of society, but there's a politics section here on boards for those who want to be involved in discussing it or reading more of it.

Soft Falling Rain

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

I'm glad, the first page is just crap threads with the same arguements. Sinn Fein that and bond holders this and enda is a gowl because I said so.

I stopped coming for a creep in here over the last 9 or so months because of it.

If I want politics I'll go to that forum.


Actually let's just have every thread about boobies and how funny it is when they jiggle?

You could say that about every topic that's rehashed. Religion, obese people, those pesky dolers etc etc....

I don't think the problem is with an oversaturation of topics on issues such as politics. There just seems to be a deeper staleness in the forum. That's not the fault of users, it just goes with the territory of having a long running forum that has a wide appeal across a number of subjects.

I'm not sure how you combat that tbh.

Sauve

Great idea imo. I have very little interest in politics, and on many occasions have opened AH to see thread after thread on politics, and promptly fecked off again.

If I was into politics, I'd sub to the politics forum

Lone Stone

Well i for one am disappointed with this move after hours has always been the general discussion forum for boards. And things that effect our day to day lives often gets brought up here and can be talked about in a some what lighthearted manner where the general people discuss such things as water charges etc, not on the political forum which is a different breed of forum user for the most part and usually occupied by members of specific political parties.

I think this is a bad move for after hours ! And if you dont like the topic folks you dont have to click on it.

southcentralts

Would it be possible to have one AH political catch-all thread, to mock and ridicule ( in true AH fashion ) the foibles and follies of our elected degenerates. I do not much care for political debate here, but I do source most of my political news and views from here (not the political forum but AH) at present.

I doubt that threads in the political forum would be welcoming to the AH mindset most of us (you too Micky) seem to have been blessed with since birth. And when issues arise of a political nature, we do want to comment in a place where our filtered view on it will be appreciated.

Dravokivich

Lone Stone wrote: »

Well i for one am disappointed with this move after hours has always been the general discussion forum for boards. And things that effect our day to day lives often gets brought up here and can be talked about in a some what lighthearted manner where the general people discuss such things as water charges etc, not on the political forum which is a different breed of forum user for the most part and usually occupied by members of specific political parties.

I think this is a bad move for after hours ! And if you dont like the topic folks you dont have to click on it.

I believe this is what their Café is meant to be.

Gloomtastic!

But didn't somebody once say 'Everything is political'?

Gongoozler

strobe wrote: »

I don't think changes are made just for a laugh or anything. I just think the majority should at the very least have their opinion heard before a decision is reached. I'm not suggesting a poll and majority rule per say, just let people have their say openly and ahead of time and allow the opinions expressed a chance to be considered.

That's my suggestion anyway, decide amongst yourselves if it has any merit.

I think the reason opinion wasn't requested is because it's something they're doing regardless of user opinion, and therefore don't give a **** if you like it or not.

Micky Dolenz

southcentralts wrote: »

Would it be possible to have one AH political catch-all thread, to mock and ridicule ( in true AH fashion ) the foibles and follies of our elected degenerates. I do not much care for political debate here, but I do source most of my political news and views from here (not the political forum but AH) at present.

I doubt that threads in the political forum would be welcoming to the AH mindset most of us (you too Micky) seem to have been blessed with since birth. And when issues arise of a political nature, we do want to comment in a place where our filtered view on it will be appreciated.

Most of the political threads are quite serious and would not be out of place over in the political forum. For more banter style posting the Café is ideal. As was said earlier, the politics mods and ourselves will work closely over the coming months to ensure the transition is seamless as possible. This isn't a case of us just dumping threads on them.

Gongoozler wrote: »

I think the reason opinion wasn't requested is because it's something they're doing regardless of user opinion, and therefore don't give a **** if you like it or not.

That's not quite the case. Our feedback threads over the years would indicate that it is a supported change. Many people were looking for AH to be less heavy. It makes perfect sense to put political threads in the politics forum.

LuckyLloyd

Poor decision.

padd b1975

Lone Stone wrote: »

I think this is a bad move for after hours ! And if you dont like the topic folks you dont have to click on it.

Not really a clever strategy from the point of view of the bean counters I would imagine..

Someone who is not a fan of politics will be less inclined to stick around the most popular forum on the site if the first page is 'top heavy' with political topics.

Less footfall inevitably leads to less clicks on advertisements.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Sorry for going off topic but regarding sports threads could we be allowed to have one AH superthread for the World Cup?

We had one for Euro 2012 and the London Olympics and both were good fun to read and contribute to.

padd b1975

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Regarding sports threads could we be allowed to have one AH superthread for the World Cup?

We had one for Euro 2012 and the London Olympics and both were good fun to read and contribute to.

The one for the Superbowl was very funny.

Micky Dolenz

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Sorry for going off topic but regarding sports threads could we be allowed to have one AH superthread for the World Cup?

We had one for Euro 2012 and the London Olympics and both were good fun to read and contribute to.

Yeah, those ones worked well. We will probably have one official thread only.

Nodin

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

................

This isnt something we decided over a short time. We looked at the forum over the last few years and felt it was something that was turning AH into something it was never meant to be. We left this thread open so people could question the change. It's new terrority for us all.

Why do you disagree with the change?

Bit fucking pointless considering its already a done deal. Broad political discussion should still be allowed.

And I'm against it even though the vast majority of those I argue with won't last pissing distance in the "Politics" forum.

P_1

Doesn't the Politics forum (inc the Cafe) have a higher expectation of posting than in AH? One concern that I'd have is more mod time being used up with people being caught up in this

Cookie_Monster

The standards of posting required on the politics foruam are, rightly, far higher than AH and the cafe is dead. Between those two a lot of semi casual, enjoyable discussion is going to be lost in this move.

evolving_doors

P_1 wrote: »

Doesn't the Politics forum (inc the Cafe) have a higher expectation of posting than in AH? One concern that I'd have is more mod time being used up with people being caught up in this

Id tend to agree, its not so much as where we're going, but who's going to be there when we arrive. It might be a case of "get back to AH ye trolls ...and take 'yor ma' with ye".

As a teaching mod im kind of glad the "Teachers and their 3 month holidays" rants are kept here. Don't get me wrong though, I like to participate here in those debates but I tend to adopt the drunken-melee-shoot from the hip style that AH entails.

Maybe the politics cafe should be moved here.

I can appreciate that something like the politics cafe needs a few regular posts to gain popularity, maybe still host the thread title here but put a redirect link to P.Cafe...once people go there and see other live/recent threads then theyll start to hang around and follow the forum. I find that the more popular a forum becomes then the more popular it becomes! Especially if people open up boards and see interesting thread titles pop up in the general ' latest posts' listing.

only other thing I can think of is that I've noticed a severe lack of swan threads in AH...just saying..

Black Swan

P_1 wrote: »

Doesn't the Politics forum (inc the Cafe) have a higher expectation of posting than in AH? One concern that I'd have is more mod time being used up with people being caught up in this

Armelodie wrote: »

Id tend to agree, its not so much as where we're going, but who's going to be there when we arrive. It might be a case of "get back to AH ye trolls ...and take 'yor ma' with ye".

All members (and AH transferred threads) are welcome to post their politically related discussions in Politics Café. The Café is a greatly relaxed alternative to the serious posting standards found in the other 7 Politics forum/subforums. Except for the focus on political topics, if you are accustomed to posting in AH, you probably will not find much difference.

Please know that there is now a Feedback thread stickied in Politics Café. You are welcome to post comments in that thread to help shape Politics Café to the needs of our community of posters.

Armelodie wrote: »

only other thing I can think of is that I've noticed a severe lack of swan threads in AH...just saying..

If you are referring to Black Swan (although I may not have posted as frequently as I used to), my total AH posts are 3,567 which surpasses your total boards.ie post count of 2,275 shown below your avatar.

kneemos

The Politics Forum seems to like going on about it's high standard of posting but as far as I can see it's a case of the Emperor's new clothes,ie AH worded differently.
Failing to see any high level of insight or knowledge.

evolving_doors

Black Swan wrote: »

If you are referring to Black Swan (although I may not have posted as frequently as I used to), my total AH posts are 3,567 which surpasses your total boards.ie post count of 2,275 shown below your avatar.

Ohhhhh I've been served..
Its not quantity BS its quality... :}

Anyhow ya I'll take a look in the PC alright ..

Politics is ubiquitous though... The tuam baby grave thread in AH could easily slot into politics...or religion...atheism fora. I think most of the Politics threads here end up in general social commentary anyhow, where as in politics..its more of a historical/election side of things.

In saying all that I'd be interested to give it a try either way.

Black Swan

Armelodie wrote: »

Anyhow ya I'll take a look in the PC alright ..

In saying all that I'd be interested to give it a try either way.

Know that you are most welcome to start OPs and post in our Politics Café. Try it, you'll like it.

K-9

Nodin wrote: »

Bit fucking pointless considering its already a done deal. Broad political discussion should still be allowed.

And I'm against it even though the vast majority of those I argue with won't last pissing distance in the "Politics" forum.

There's a big crossover element between Politics and AH. You and many others don't really care where a thread is, subject matter is far more important than where a topic comes up.

Armelodie wrote: »

Id tend to agree, its not so much as where we're going, but who's going to be there when we arrive. It might be a case of "get back to AH ye trolls ...and take 'yor ma' with ye".

As a teaching mod im kind of glad the "Teachers and their 3 month holidays" rants are kept here. Don't get me wrong though, I like to participate here in those debates but I tend to adopt the drunken-melee-shoot from the hip style that AH entails.

Maybe the politics cafe should be moved here.

I can appreciate that something like the politics cafe needs a few regular posts to gain popularity, maybe still host the thread title here but put a redirect link to P.Cafe...once people go there and see other live/recent threads then theyll start to hang around and follow the forum. I find that the more popular a forum becomes then the more popular it becomes! Especially if people open up boards and see interesting thread titles pop up in the general ' latest posts' listing.

only other thing I can think of is that I've noticed a severe lack of swan threads in AH...just saying..

Footfall is important and the Cafe can't compete with AH in that regard, but AH isn't supposed to be a place to post just to reach a wider audience. Again it comes back to the topic, if its important enough to posters they'll post anyway.

The Cafe was set up for lighter topics, humour threads, that type of thing in response to user requests, but due to AH hoovering up those threads it never stood a chance.

kneemos wrote: »

The Politics Forum seems to like going on about it's high standard of posting but as far as I can see it's a case of the Emperor's new clothes,ie AH worded differently.
Failing to see any high level of insight or knowledge.

That's something that happened over a few years. I'd find little difference between the higher quality AH threads and most Politics ones.

Everybody is welcome to post and as mods we're aware there will be teething problems as people find their feet. Once more and more posters start using it the forum will develop its own style and feel.

crockholm

K-9 wrote: »

There's a big crossover element between Politics and AH. You and many others don't really care where a thread is, subject matter is far more important than where a topic comes up.



Footfall is important and the Cafe can't compete with AH in that regard, but AH isn't supposed to be a place to post just to reach a wider audience. Again it comes back to the topic, if its important enough to posters they'll post anyway.

The Cafe was set up for lighter topics, humour threads, that type of thing in response to user requests, but due to AH hoovering up those threads it never stood a chance.



That's something that happened over a few years. I'd find little difference between the higher quality AH threads and most Politics ones.

Everybody is welcome to post and as mods we're aware there will be teething problems as people find their feet. Once more and more posters start using it the forum will develop its own style and feel.

I Think I get where Nodin is coming from,and I agree with him.When you say that it will be relaxed,does that mean that if I am now asked to back something up with a link,I now have to,or else leave the discussion?

As far as I remembered,that wasn't the case in AH.

My problem is that my computer ability has stopped evolving at the cro-magnon stage and I have to stare at a keyboard to find the keys with my big clunky fingers that were designed more for beating raw materials with a hammer.

I don't know how to link stuff.

Am I now goosed?

Black Swan

crockholm wrote: »

When you say that it will be relaxed,does that mean that if I am now asked to back something up with a link,I now have to,or else leave the discussion?

You do not have to back things up in the Politics Café. You can just express your opinion. From the Politics Café Charter:

Black Swan wrote: »

Discussions that emphasize serious and rigourous content, sometimes with citations and links for support, should be conducted in one of the other Politics forums.

Unlike the 7 other Politics forums, in the Politics Café you can have smiley face only posts , or picture-only posts, vid-only posts, cartoons, one word posts, banter with friends, toss in plenty of humour, and wander off-topic just like you might do with friends while chatting in a Café.

There is no special list of inappropriate words in Politics Café as found in the other 7 Politics forums. And you might note that the Politics Café charter is the shortest found in the Politics forums, which should tell you something.

Politics Café is an experiment (see Charter). If you want to help shape it, by all means post in the Politics Café stickied FEEDBACK THREAD.

You are welcome to join us crockholm for a chat in the Politics Café.

Nodin

K-9 wrote: »

There's a big crossover element between Politics and AH. You and many others don't really care where a thread is, subject matter is far more important than where a topic comes up.

............

I'm not the one that will suffer. Not everyone will last in politics, as well you know. Some will be no loss admittedly, but still.