What would happen to a passport holder if their country ceased to exist?

BetterThanThou

Let's take Rhodesia for example, a country which no longer exists. What would have happened to a passport holder who was abroad at the time the country ceased to exist? Would they be rendered unable to travel? Or would their passport still be valid?

Sir Arthur Daley

I need to think about that one.

Witcher

Watch The Terminal..it has your answers:pac: You'd live in the airport and put up plasterboard to pass the time.

Smidge

This...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Terminal



Beaten by Blay!!

GarIT

Blay wrote: »

Watch The Terminal..it has your answers:pac: You'd live in the airport and put up plasterboard to pass the time.

Beat me to it.

"All you need to do to get the papers you need to enter the United States is to tell me that you are scared to return to your home country. Are you scared to return to your home country?" "No"

Donkey Oaty

BetterThanThou wrote: »

Or would their passport still be valid?

It's up to the individual country whether or not they recognise them.

Yugoslavian passports were widely accepted (although obviously no longer issued) even though that country ceased to exist.

Bafucin

They are a stateless person.

The dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991 has led to statelessness in the Baltic states and in Eastern Europe. Today, more than 370,000 people lack a nationality in Estonia and Latvia. Despite significant efforts to promote the naturalization of stateless people in the region, resulting in the acquisition of nationality by more than 600,000 people in the Russian Federation, some 225,000 people are reported as stateless or with undetermined nationality in Eastern Europe. They include people with expired Soviet passports who have not been able to acquire the nationality of the state in which they reside since the break-up of the Soviet Union. In the countries that once made up Yugoslavia, groups of people fell between the cracks created by new nationality laws and became stateless. Though many have managed to establish their nationality, members of minority groups in south-eastern Europe, especially the Roma, continue to face difficulties accessing the documents necessary to confirm nationality.

bnagrrl

They'd have to live in the airport for the rest of their days with hilarious consequences.

A Greedy Algorithm

They would be sent to Ireland where they would be given free money every week and a house to live out their days in.

osarusan

More Terminal jokes please.

Sir Arthur Daley

A Greedy Algorithm wrote: »

They would be sent to Ireland where they would be given free money every week and a house to live out their days in.

Dont forget the dog allowance.

AlanS181824

Watch Terminal, as the others have suggested

fRlEnd

Head into town.

Fratton Fred

BetterThanThou wrote: »

Let's take Rhodesia for example, a country which no longer exists. What would have happened to a passport holder who was abroad at the time the country ceased to exist? Would they be rendered unable to travel? Or would their passport still be valid?

Rhodesia became Zimbabwe didn't it?

GarIT

osarusan wrote: »

More Terminal jokes please.

"I wait" for more jokes.

kiffer

This guy...
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehran_Karimi_Nasseri

Toby Take a Bow

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

Dont forget the dog allowance.

And a buggy allowance. They get a buggy allowance.

Lenin Skynard

This actually happened to a man who lives in Ireland, it was on the news quite recently, maybe last week. He was born in Lithuania when it was in the Soviet Union but moved to Azerbaijan. He tried to go back to Lithuania but they wouldn't take him so he was bounced back and fourth and ended up in Ireland. He was granted citezenship a few weeks ago after being here for seven years or something like that.

I searched but can't find the story, it's on thejournal.ie somewhere.

Edit: Here it is. My vague recollection of it above is probably a bt inaccurate.

the culture of deference

I had an israeli stamp in my passport in 1991 and I was not allowed to enter or fly over most Arab air space. They do not recognise israel, so the stamp makes the passport invalid.

countries do restrict access. Syria
Lebanon
Libya
Kuwait
Iran
Iraq (except the northern Kurdish region)
Sudan
Yemen

There have also been reports of problems entering the following countries:


Saudi Arabia (reportedly not strictly enforced due to pressure by the U.S.)
Malaysia
Pakistan
Algeria
Indonesia
U.A.E.

Guy:Incognito

Can we dissolve and rename the state over the summer while large amounts of "undesirables" are in santa ponsa?:-)

Guy:Incognito

the culture of deference wrote: »

I had an israeli stamp in my passport in 1991 and I was not allowed to enter or fly over most Arab air space. They do not recognise israel, so the stamp makes the passport invalid.

Seaneh will be along in a minute to denounce you and all you stand for. Just sit down there in the waiting area while he finishes up with another customer.

osarusan

Not exactly the same thing, but footballer Rio Mavuba had a birth cert and passport that listed place of birth as 'born at sea'. He was born in international waters to refugees fleeing Angola.

Guy:Incognito

osarusan wrote: »

Not exactly the same thing, but footballer Rio Mavuba had a birth cert and passport that listed place of birth as 'born at sea'. He was born in international waters .

Best of luck to him claiming the dole off those guys if he hits hard times.

darkpagandeath

Dole bashing already ? You need A valid passport to claim SW Or a birth certificate if your from outside the EU its very hard to get SW. So if you did not have a Valid passport or Birth certificate you become an asylum seeker i think. But lets not this stop us from making sweeping accusations about SW here.

I Heart Internet

the culture of deference wrote: »

I had an israeli stamp in my passport in 1991 and I was not allowed to enter or fly over most Arab air space. They do not recognise israel, so the stamp makes the passport invalid.

Never knew that was the case. Can you get a stamp from the Palestinian Authority to counter the Israeli one (kinda serious question).

corner of hells

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Dole bashing already ? You need A valid passport to claim SW Or a birth certificate if your from outside the EU its very hard to get SW. So if you did not have a Valid passport or Birth certificate you become an asylum seeker i think. But lets not this stop us from making sweeping accusations about SW here.

I kinda got from the posts that it was more light hearted banter than sweeping generalisation and dole bashing.

Rhys Essien

the culture of deference wrote: »

I had an israeli stamp in my passport in 1991 and I was not allowed to enter or fly over most Arab air space. They do not recognise israel, so the stamp makes the passport invalid.

countries do restrict access. Syria
Lebanon
Libya
Kuwait
Iran
Iraq (except the northern Kurdish region)
Sudan
Yemen

There have also been reports of problems entering the following countries:


Saudi Arabia (reportedly not strictly enforced due to pressure by the U.S.)
Malaysia
Pakistan
Algeria
Indonesia
U.A.E.

You can ask the Israelis to stamp a seperate piece of paper instead of your passport so you dont need all this hassle.

Waitsian

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

And a buggy allowance. They get a buggy allowance.

And cars sure don't you know? They actually get cars! For nothing!

corner of hells wrote: »

I kinda got from the posts that it was more light hearted banter than sweeping generalisation and dole bashing.

corner of hells

mod9maple wrote: »

And cars sure don't you know? They actually get cars! For nothing!

And vouchers , vouchers for everything ..... flights to Ibiza ,Florida , tracksuits , funky lookin' hats and clothes too.

Sunglasses Ron

the culture of deference wrote: »

I had an israeli stamp in my passport in 1991 and I was not allowed to enter or fly over most Arab air space. They do not recognise israel, so the stamp makes the passport invalid.

countries do restrict access. Syria
Lebanon
Libya
Kuwait
Iran
Iraq (except the northern Kurdish region)
Sudan
Yemen

There have also been reports of problems entering the following countries:


Saudi Arabia (reportedly not strictly enforced due to pressure by the U.S.)
Malaysia
Pakistan
Algeria
Indonesia
U.A.E.

Can't you just remove the page? It would take one eagle eyed customs officer to notice one page out of a 32 page passport had been removed!

I think Cuba doesn't stamp US passport holders as technically it is illegal for an American to visit Cuba or support its economy in any way without permission from their own government, but the Cubans welcome tourists and therefore don't want to get individual yanks into trouble.

seamus

As far as I know under international law, there is no difference between nationality and citizenship.

So if you are a citizen of boardsland (by birth) travelling in the states, and boardsland no longer exists as a legal state, under international law you are now a citizen of whatever new country now occupies the former state of boardsland.

That doesn't mean the new state has to recognise any claim to citizenship by you, however, nor allow you entry back in that country. International law is really a gentlemen's agreement moreso than law.

the culture of deference

Rhys Essien wrote: »

You can ask the Israelis to stamp a seperate piece of paper instead of your passport so you dont need all this hassle.

Yea, its called loose leaf entry. I got that 2nd time in my 1995 passport. Can lead to a load of hassle. Anyone who has left israel knows how stringent their security services are. A 1 hour security interrogation incl strip search would be mild.

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Never knew that was the case. Can you get a stamp from the Palestinian Authority to counter the Israeli one (kinda serious question).

You can get loose leaf entry at taba, and same from Eilat into jordan.

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

Can't you just remove the page? It would take one eagle eyed customs officer to notice one page out of a 32 page passport had been removed!

It would be spotted, you would be detained.

spurious

seamus wrote: »

As far as I know under international law, there is no difference between nationality and citizenship.

So if you are a citizen of boardsland (by birth) travelling in the states, and boardsland no longer exists as a legal state, under international law you are now a citizen of whatever new country now occupies the former state of boardsland.

That doesn't mean the new state has to recognise any claim to citizenship by you, however, nor allow you entry back in that country. International law is really a gentlemen's agreement moreso than law.

Russian speakers born in the old Latvian SSR were not given citizenship following independence, despite most of them voting for it. Their children born since independence were, but the older people were told to get Latvian citizenship they must pass a test in Latvian ' But we speak Russian' - 'Oh well, no citizenship for you then'.

Neither do they have a vote in independent Latvia which they helped to create.
No Latvian citizenship also means no EU citizenship, which has some implications for travel.

Pettiness on a national scale really, given the numbers of people involved.

DoesNotCompute

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

Can't you just remove the page?

You would then have to explain to the Passport Office why you defaced your passport (technically it's not "your" passport, as it is the property of the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade). Also you could be sanctioned and place on the Passport Office's stoplist and/or be subject to having future passports issued with restricted validity.

gramar

It took so long for me to get my new passport, I thought Ireland had ceased to exist there for a while. It took 8 weeks.

DoesNotCompute

gramar wrote: »

It took so long for me to get my new passport, I thought Ireland had ceased to exist there for a while. It took 8 weeks.

An outstanding service by international standards. Don't see the problem to be honest.

gramar

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

An outstanding service by international standards. Don't see the problem to be honest.

I take it you're being sarcastic. Now while it's not fair to compare countries as the circumstances are different and not always like for like but I'll do it anyway. In Spain it takes about 30 minutes to get a new passport issued and costs about 25€ as opposed to 80€ in Ireland, so outstanding indeed.

L'Enfer du Nord

During the upheavals in Europe in the last century there was a special passport created for refugees known as the Nansen Passport

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nansen_passport