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BQ or Bust!

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    #272
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,447 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Tue 4 Nov

    Easy 5 miles @ 9:15 (8 km @ 5:45)

    This felt far tougher than an easy run should feel like. One of those days.

    Wed 5 Nov

    2wu/4@HMP/2cd Tot 8 mi @ 8:29 Avg (12.9 km @ 5:16)

    First little session in quite a while. Headed to the Royal Canal for 4 miles @ HMP which is 7:50/mi (4:52/km). First half into a little breeze and uphill (in that canal kind of way, flat then uphill at the locks). Still had to work hard on the way back to make the pace. Got a stitch during the last half mile, ended up with a little dry retch at the end. :eek: Plenty of work to do then! Glad I didn't upgrade this to 10k pace like I was originally thinking.

    HMP Splits: 7:46 8:01 7:41 7:37 Avg. 7:46 (4:50/km)

    WTD: 13 (21k)
    MTD: 21 (34k)
    YTD: 1,127 (1,814k)


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    #273
    SamforMayo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭SamforMayo


    Murph_D wrote: »
    Tue 4 Nov

    Easy 5 miles @ 9:15 (8 km @ 5:45)

    This felt far tougher than an easy run should feel like. One of those days.

    Wed 5 Nov

    2wu/4@HMP/2cd Tot 8 mi @ 8:29 Avg (12.9 km @ 5:16)

    First little session in quite a while. Headed to the Royal Canal for 4 miles @ HMP which is 7:50/mi (4:52/km). First half into a little breeze and uphill (in that canal kind of way, flat then uphill at the locks). Still had to work hard on the way back to make the pace. Got a stitch during the last half mile, ended up with a little dry retch at the end. :eek: Plenty of work to do then! Glad I didn't upgrade this to 10k pace like I was originally thinking.

    HMP Splits: 7:46 8:01 7:41 7:37 Avg. 7:46 (4:50/km)

    WTD: 13 (21k)
    MTD: 21 (34k)
    YTD: 1,127 (1,814k)

    You are making me dread these HMP miles again! Not starting them til next month though.


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    #274
    career move
    Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭career move


    Murph_D wrote: »

    Week|Mon|Tue|Wed|Thu|Fri|Sat|Sun|Mileage
    Nov 3|Easy/rest|Easy/rest|8 inc. 4 @ HMP|Rec.|Easy/rest|Easy/rest|14 easy|30-35
    Nov 10|Easy/rest|Easy/rest|14 inc. 4,3,2,1 @ HMP|Rec.|Easy/rest|Easy/rest|18 inc. 2 x 3 @ HMP|45-55
    Nov 17|Easy/rest|Easy/rest|10 easy w/strides|Rec.|Easy/rest|Race 5k|Rec.|30-40
    Nov 24|Easy/rest|Easy/rest|14 inc. 7 @ 10mP|Rec.|Easy/rest|Easy/rest|18 alternating 2 easy/2 HMP (8 @ HMP in total)|30-40
    Dec 1|Easy/rest|Easy/rest|10 easy with strides|Easy/rest|2 Easy|Race HM|Rec.|30-40


    Does this look OK? Any comments or suggestions welcome!

    Hi Murph. Well done on your HMP run today :)

    Personally I don't like your plan (sorry :o) I know you didn't race DCM but you still ran a marathon and were on your feet for nearly 5 hours if you include waiting around at the start etc. I think you're overfacing yourself in that plan with HMP miles and doing long HMP sessions twice a week is a recipe for injury IMO.

    I don't like the way you're aiming for HMP in the Tergat 4,3,2,1 session. I think it's OTT and you'd be better doing 4 x 2m at HMP unless you're plannning really long recoveries and even then it's still OTT.

    I don't think you need to do 18m next week or the week before the half. You're recovering from a marathon! And any long runs that you do I think should just be easy pace. You don't need to include any HMP miles but if you really wanted you could do a fast finish lsr and pick up the pace to 10k pace for the last 2 miles.

    I think you should include strides after your easy runs a couple of days a week because it will increase leg turnover without stressing the body too much.

    I don't like the 14 w 7 @ 10mP. Again wayyyyyy OTT. I would probably do 2m w/u, 10 x 400m, 2m c/d. I don't really see the benefit in having a run that lenght mid week 10 days out from the marathon

    Again I apologise if I'm overly critical :D


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    #275
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    Murph_D wrote: »
    So here's how I'm thinking of preparing for the Waterford HM. This is based on the middle third of the meno marathon plan that I followed for Berlin this year and Dublin last year (the original plan accounts for the Race Series and so has a HM built in). But I've tweaked it a little, substituting HMP miles for MP miles where originally specified, and 10mP miles for HMP miles, except for the first week which I kept at HMP.

    HMP is going to be 7:50/mi (4:52/km), based on last two race results which are pretty consistent (3:36:17 M and 22:09 5k). That suggests a HM target of 1:42:xx, which I'll hope to push to <1:40 on the day, although the Waterford course looks hilly enough so that might be a tall order.

    Week|Mon|Tue|Wed|Thu|Fri|Sat|Sun|Mileage
    Nov 3|Easy/rest|Easy/rest|8 inc. 4 @ HMP|Rec.|Easy/rest|Easy/rest|14 easy|30-35
    Nov 10|Easy/rest|Easy/rest|14 inc. 4,3,2,1 @ HMP|Rec.|Easy/rest|Easy/rest|18 inc. 2 x 3 @ HMP|45-55
    Nov 17|Easy/rest|Easy/rest|10 easy w/strides|Rec.|Easy/rest|Race 5k|Rec.|30-40
    Nov 24|Easy/rest|Easy/rest|14 inc. 7 @ 10mP|Rec.|Easy/rest|Easy/rest|18 alternating 2 easy/2 HMP (8 @ HMP in total)|30-40
    Dec 1|Easy/rest|Easy/rest|10 easy with strides|Easy/rest|2 Easy|Race HM|Rec.|30-40


    Does this look OK? Any comments or suggestions welcome!

    Hey Murph, I have never used my own plan for a half ;)
    But I would say week of 24th November is a bit off...Is the Wednesday session 14 with 7 @ HMP? If it's 14 with 10 @ 10mile pace I think it's a bit much. I reckon 6-7 straight miles @ HMP is the most you need to do. I definitely wouldn't follow that up with 18 with 8 @ HMP on the Sunday. It would be only 6 Days before your race and would leave you way overcooked so I would drop that i reckon. Maybe 14-15 miles easy would be a better option. You still need a bit of a taper and you look to be employing a bit of a reverse taper by the looks of it :pac:

    Otherwise I would say no more than 1 HMP session per week, peaking at 7 @ HMP 10 days out. If you want to add a second session, maybe something @ 5k pace would be better, then you can keep the long runs easy. Or else do the Long run at the weekend with the HMP bits and replace the Wednesday session with sharper stuff.

    Are you staying down in Waterford? a few of us are gonna head down for the race and stay down the night...


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    #276
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    Haha!!
    Snap C_M!! :D


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    #277
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,447 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Thanks guys - of course I don't mind the criticism, I really appreciate the input as I have no idea what I'm doing! :)

    I naively thought it made sense to do what I did but now that you mention it it definitely looks a bit mad alright. I guess you can't just take the middle of one plan and try to turn it into the entirety of another by just adding a H here and there. :)

    Will rejig with those comments in mind.

    Waterford looks like a day trip for me, much as I'd love to stick around and sample the local hospitality.

    Thanks for the ideas!


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    #278
    Netwerk Errer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 542 ✭✭✭Netwerk Errer


    I have to agree with Meno and career move on this one. I would limit any continuous HMP efforts to 40 minutes max. A session of 9m w/ 5 @ HMP would be my max effort. You could interchange that session with something like these:

    2x2m, 1x1m at a few sec/m faster than 10m pace with 3 min rec.

    6x1m at between 10k and HMP with 2 min recovery. You could even drop the recovery to 1 min 2 weeks out from the goal race for for some extra sharpening.

    Those are some pretty good lactate workouts. Definitely throw in some strides if you're not going to do any designated speedwork. Although a speed session would be a great addition.

    EDIT: Sorry murph. I meant to type 9m w/5 at slightly faster than 15k pace. Others might disagree but I see a bigger benefit to doing shorter runs at lactate threshold pace than a longer session at HM pace. I think it's important to teach your body to clear lactic acid and the way to do that is running slightly faster than your LT. You won't get the same bang for your buck with a longer but slower session.


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    #279
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,447 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Sound advice. I especially appreciate CM's point about marathon recovery. I had been thinking that Dublin was more of an LSR but CM is absolutely right - all that time on feet is a big effort. I've already "raced" a parkrun since then, and the combined fatigue explains why I'm not feeling full of beans at all this week. Plus there's my injury history - especially the prolapsed disk situation, which flared up 4-5 weeks post-DCM last year after a couple of hardish parkruns and not enough recovery

    So I think I'm going to ditch that "plan" and try to play it by ear a little, keeping HMP to once a week and getting in some speedwork as suggested above. Will be trying to do some club stuff too so that will probably have an influence.

    Appreciate the advice.


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    #280
    annapr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,936 ✭✭✭annapr


    Well that plan didn't last long :D


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    #281
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,447 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    annapr wrote: »
    Well that plan didn't last long :D

    Gotta know when to hold 'em
    Know when to fold 'em
    Know when to walk away
    Know when to run.

    :D

    Besides, a kind soul PM'd me a nice looking plan that seems to agree with all of the above comments. :)


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    #282
    FBOT01
    Registered Users Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭FBOT01


    Murph_D wrote: »
    Gotta know when to hold 'em
    Know when to fold 'em
    Know when to walk away
    Know when to run.

    :D

    Besides, a kind soul PM'd me a nice looking plan that seems to agree with all of the above comments. :)

    I presume you will be sharing the new plan for review by the collective:)

    I have to admit I was a little worried when I saw the 18 milers with one of them being a week before the race. Glad to hear that you have pulled back a little on them.

    Don't forget the auld listen to the body stuff..........


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    #283
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,447 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Sun 9 Nov

    Slow 14 m @ 9:33 (25.5k @ 5:56) Avg. HR 152 (71%)

    Out and back from Fairview to Sutton. Cool late morning, with some rain on the return leg, which was also into the wind as usual. Bumped into Mrs FBOT01 looking nice and steady near the Dollymount causeway. This one didn't feel as easy as it should have. Felt good after it was done though.

    WTD: 30 (48k)
    MTD:38 (62k)
    YTD: 1,145 (1,842k)


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    #284
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,447 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Waterford Plan update.

    Week|Mon|Tue|Wed|Thu|Fri|Sat|Sun|Mileage
    Nov 3|Easy/rest|Easy/rest|8 inc. 4 @ HMP|Rec.|Easy/rest|Easy/rest|14 easy|30-35
    Nov 10|Easy/rest|Easy/rest|2 w/u 3x2 mile @ HMP w/ 2.30 min jog rec|Rec.|Easy/rest|Easy/rest|13 miles steady (MP +30 sec)|45-55
    Nov 17|Easy/rest|Easy/rest|10 easy w/strides|Rec.|Easy/rest|Race 5k|13 miles easy|30-40
    Nov 24|Easy/rest|Easy/rest|10 inc. 6 @ MP|Rec.|Easy/rest|Easy/rest|14 miles progression (last mile @ MP)|30-40
    Dec 1|Easy/rest|Easy/rest|4x1k @ HMP w/ 90 sec rec|Easy/rest|2 Easy|Race HM|Rec.|30-40


    As I mentioned above, a helpful Boardsie whose name I hadn't come across before offered the above improvement of my half-assed HM plan. I won't mention the name given it was PM'd. It tracks very well with the other advice proferred. I might not follow it to the letter but it will be a useful template, and I'll put it up here just in case it's of any interest to anyone else doing Waterford in a few weeks time.


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    #285
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,447 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Tue 11 Nov

    4.2m @ 9:51 (6.83k @ 6:05)

    A few wet miles at rush hour. Probably did more harm than good with the amount of diesel fumes. Cut this one a little short as conditions were just not very nice. Off to Lisbon for a conference tomorrow so next couple of runs should be better. :)

    WTD: 4 (7k)
    MTD: 42 (69k)
    YTD: 1,149 (1,849k)


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    #286
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,447 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Thu 13 Nov

    The rain has followed me. Headed out in wet and windy Lisbon before breakfast hoping to do 3x2m at HMP (8:00/m). Not a particularly running friendly city with all the hills and bumpy cobbled sidewalks so I warmed up by jogging down to the riverfront and headed downwind. Had to turn around when the footpath ended and brave the fresh wind. So HMP was out the window and I only made the pace on the final downwind rep. To add to the informal survey from last summer I can report that Portuguese runners don't wave back either. :)

    Don't have data to hand but did about 8 miles (13k) in around 67 mins total. HMP reps of about 8:24 8:24 8:00 avg.

    WTD: 12 (20k)
    MTD: 51 (82k)
    YTD: 1,157 (1,862k)


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    #287
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,447 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Fri 14 Nov

    Recovery 4.4m @ 9:19 (7 km @ 5:47)

    Sat 15 Nov

    Easy 4.78 mi @ 8:54 (7.5 @ 5:41)

    Two more wet and windy jaunts along the Tagus river.

    WTD: 21 (34k)
    MTD: 60 (96k)
    YTD: 1,166 (1,876k)


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    #288
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,447 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Sun 16 Nov

    13 mi @ 8:52 (21 km @ 5:30).

    Good to be back on home soil for a nice dry steady paced out and back to Sutton.

    WTD: 34 (55k)
    MTD: 73 (117k)
    YTD: 1,179 (1,897k)


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    #289
    yaboya1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    Murph_D wrote: »
    I can report that Portuguese runners don't wave back either.

    I was 3/3 along the Clontarf seafront this morning.
    New record for me :)


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    #290
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,447 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Nice one, Yaboya, another PB! :)


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    #291
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,447 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Tue 18 Nov

    Easy 6 mi @ 9:41 (9.7 km @ 6:01).

    Intended to do a club session in Irishtown but went to the wrong park and ended up just doing an easy run out to Blackrock and back. (I know where to go next time.) :) Legs felt pretty heavy tonight.

    Weds 19 Nov

    Easy 10 mi @ 9:16 (16.1 km @ 5:45).

    Fairly invigorating lunchtime outing along the Tolka and Royal Canal. Very strange light, looked and felt like it might snow but just a few drops of rain in the end. Did eight or nine strides during the middle part of the run, 5-6 mins apart.

    WTD: 16 (26k)
    MTD: 89 (143k)
    YTD: 1,195 (1,923k)


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    #292
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,447 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Sat 22 Nov

    Had been hoping to race 5k today but changed plans after a minor medical procedure. Did parkrun timekeeper duty instead and managed to operate the watch properly this time. :)


    Sun 23 Nov

    Easy 13.5 mi @ 9:15 (21.8 km @ 5:45)

    Nice to get out after a few days rest. Out to Sutton via Clontarf and St. Anne's, returning via Howth Road for a change (and to get out of the breeze). Glorious late morning in Dublin 3/5. Realised after a few kms that I'd forgotten to eat breakfast (!) so I guess this was one of those hardcore starvation sessions.


    WTD: 30 (48k)
    MTD: 102 (165k)
    YTD: 1,208 (1,945k)


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    #293
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,447 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Tue 25 Nov

    5 mi (3 @ HMP / 2 cd)

    Not having raced for a while it's all been feeling a bit samey and slow. I was a bit antsy so launched into a good trot and completed the first 5k at about HMP, before slowing right down to recovery pace. Felt great!

    WTD: 5 (8k)
    MTD: 107 (173k)
    YTD: 1,213 (1,953k)


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    #294
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,447 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Sat 29 Nov

    3.4 mi (5.5 km) easy

    Early morning outing in Sligo town. Have been very lazy this week. In danger of being overly rested for next weeks HM.


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    #295
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,447 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Mon 1 Dec

    14 miles @ 9:06 avg (22.4 km @ 5:39)

    This was supposed to be done on Sunday - not ideal postponing til today, with a race coming up on Sat, but a hectic weekend of wedding celebrations left little or no option. The plan called for a progression run, so I set off in the Donegal hills on a wet and blustery morning. Started at a sedate warm-up pace, gradually moving up through the gears to end a bit ahead of MP for a mile or so before another mile of cooldown.

    I love this kind of run and really should do more of them. I divided the distance into 3x7km legs of gradually increasing pace, which always makes the run feel much shorter, I find. Paced these at about 9:32 (5:56/km), 9:03 (5:37), and 8:30 (5:17) respectively.

    The variation is not as great when you take the hills into account, but it felt like a reasonable effort and felt bloody good! :)


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    #296
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,447 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Weds 3 Dec

    Easy 3.1 mi (5k).

    Hit the treadmill for this one. :o Only point of any note is that I've now exceeded last year's mileage, at 1,234 miles. :cool:

    WTD: 17 (27k)
    MTD: 17 (27k)
    YTD: 1,234 (1,986k)


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    #297
    Netwerk Errer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 542 ✭✭✭Netwerk Errer


    Well done Murph! Any plans made for a goal this weekend?


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    #298
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,447 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Netwerk Errer wrote: »
    Well done Murph! Any plans made for a goal this weekend?

    Well my HM goal all year has been 1:44. Latest two races (Berlin marathon and a 5k parkrun) both suggest about 1:42:30 so the goal will be just that - 1:42:2x. But that depends on the course and conditions playing ball! :)


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    #299
    blockic
    Registered Users Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭blockic


    Best of luck with it Murph!


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    #300
    RedRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭RedRunner


    Best of luck at the weekend Murph. Nay bother to ya!


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    #301
    FBOT01
    Registered Users Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭FBOT01


    Best of Luck tomorrow, D. Keep that Full McMillan Record going....and as always, enjoy!!


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