Where to meet guys if you're not into the scene?

eaglach

I'm in a very awkward position. A few years ago I started to accept that I was gay and wanted to explore this world which I was hiding away from for so long. I started to chat to guys online, and actually met a few of them. But to be honest, I find it all very sleazy. 90% of people on there are looking for "NSA" or "fun" which I am not into at all.

I recently tried to go to a gay bar, but I didn't like it one bit. I would consider myself a very masculine guy and I am not into the campness of the gay scene. It's not a slight against camp guys, but I am just attracted to masculine guys, that's all.

But where can I go from here? I've tried online, I've tried gay bars. Both were not very succesful. Where else is there? If people suggest less sleazy dating websites, like plenty of fish or something, I would like to try them, but unfortunately due to fear of it having implications in my career (I know it shouldn't be the case, but some people are still prejudiced and I can't take that risk) I will never be able to show my face online! So that rules those out.

I'm sure there are other guys out there like me, but how do I meet them, or what has been your experience?

Daith

I think you're too hard of gay bars. They're not full of camp men only. Likewise I'm unsure if the online stuff is 90% sex only.

Other than that perhaps a social group like Wet and Wild or the Emerald Warriors.

Ten of Swords

Eaglach this question gets asked every year and from what I have read each time you are given similar good advice. Have you tried any of it?

You need to step out of your comfort zone. Life is too short. How did you meet your last boyfriend?

Clubs and societies is actually a good environment, there are the forum meetups too.

I understand your reluctance to fully engage because you are worried about work colleagues finding out but you're obviously not happy with your current situation.

What is your ideal scenario?

eaglach

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Eaglach this question gets asked every year and from what I have read each time you are given similar good advice. Have you tried any of it?

You need to step out of your comfort zone. Life is too short. How did you meet your last boyfriend?

Clubs and societies is actually a good environment, there are the forum meetups too.

I understand your reluctance to fully engage because you are worried about work colleagues finding out but you're obviously not happy with your current situation.

What is your ideal scenario?

Looking back on my post history I see! I keep forgetting you can do that!

The advice from previous posts that I have tried is going to the gay bars, which I didn't like. I guess I could try clubs and societies, but to be honest it is all very "fruity", no offence. I mean with a name like "Wet and Wild", seriously?

I met my last boyfriend online through one of those dodgy websites. This was after years being on it and he happened to be one of the minority that just wasn't after NSA. I must have talked to hundreds of guys up until that point! He was in the same position as me as well.

I don't know what my ideal scenario is. I guess I'm just frustrated with my current situation and there is little I can do about it.

Daith

eaglach wrote: »

I guess I could try clubs and societies, but to be honest it is all very "fruity", no offence. I mean with a name like "Wet and Wild", seriously?

I actually just think you're taking the piss now.

"Where do I find some masculine men"
"Try this group which is for gay men and women to do sports activities like kayaking, wind surfing, hiking"
"No, I can't get past the name, woe is me I'll never find anyone".

eaglach wrote: »

I don't know what my ideal scenario is. I guess I'm just frustrated with my current situation and there is little I can do about it.

There appears to be little you actually want to do about it.

J_E

eaglach wrote: »

The advice from previous posts that I have tried is going to the gay bars, which I didn't like. I guess I could try clubs and societies, but to be honest it is all very "fruity", no offence. I mean with a name like "Wet and Wild", seriously?

You're not going to want to hear this but you need to get over yourself if that's the attitude you're going to have. Did it dawn on you that you must be putting off guys talking like that?


If you're going through a period of insecurity with your identity, that's something you have to work at in a personal capacity, because that's what it sounds like.

baby and crumble

I'm going to be brutal.

You ask these types of questions a lot, and you always get great advice. You simply don't seem to want to hear it.

You (and I hate to say this) need to cop on and get over yourself. Your posts actually denigrate a large proportion of posters here. There are lots of gay men who aren't camp, there's lots of gay men who don't go on the scene, there's lots of gay men who want a relationship. But they're willing to try to meet someone- by trying different tactics. Ruling out an entire social group simply because you think the name is weird? Ruling out entire bars because some men choose to express themselves in a non gender conforming manner? Did you ever think you're creating your own problems?

Ten of Swords

eaglach wrote: »

Looking back on my post history I see! I keep forgetting you can do that!

Yep, shamelessly stalking you

OK seriously, I wasn't attacking you with my post and I'm pretty sure none of the other posters are either so don't feel we're having a go at you. I just think that you're spending too much time worrying about meeting gay people and not actually doing anything at all to meet any. You also seem to have some preconceived notions about gay clubs/groups.

Wet and Wild is just a name, it's members are people that like adventure, physical activity and meeting other like minded people - that's all. Seriously, if someone is looking for just sex then it's Grindr or Craigslist or any of the other myriad of apps and websites and you'll be sorted within the hour - people don't join these clubs and societies for hookups, its to make friends which is exactly what you're asking about.

I don't want to go over old ground, I think floggg summed it up very well when he answered one of your threads before here

I can't really add to that.

eaglach wrote: »

I don't know what my ideal scenario is. I guess I'm just frustrated with my current situation and there is little I can do about it.

This is not true.

eaglach

Daith wrote: »

I actually just think you're taking the piss now.

"Where do I find some masculine men"
"Try this group which is for gay men and women to do sports activities like kayaking, wind surfing, hiking"
"No, I can't get past the name, woe is me I'll never find anyone".

A name like "wet and wild" may seem innocent enough, but it's honestly off putting. I don't know, I just get the feeling that most things gay orientated, whether it be groups or bars or whatever, go for either the camp approach or for some sort of sexual innuendo. I don't think it helps the "community" when things are promoted in this way.

I see Ten of Swords has referenced an old post by flogg about me "struggling with my identity". That's not it at all. I know exactly who I am and I've no problem with it. The problem I have is finding where I fit in with everyone else! I know there are like minded gay guys out there in the same position as myself. But as I say if they are in the same position as myself, I am unlikely to bump into them!

Maybe I'm not really looking for advice. I do tend to come on here with the same problems and not really resolving anything. I think the reason I post these things is to vent. I guess I don't really have any other outlet for my thoughts and just need to get things off my chest.

Aard

eaglach wrote: »

I don't know, I just get the feeling that most things gay orientated, whether it be groups or bars or whatever, go for either the camp approach or for some sort of sexual innuendo.

You're complaining that groups organised for people based on their sexual orientation have a name with sexual innuendo? Ok.

lottpaul

eaglach wrote: »

I know there are like minded gay guys out there in the same position as myself. But as I say if they are in the same position as myself, I am unlikely to bump into them!

Maybe I'm not really looking for advice. I do tend to come on here with the same problems and not really resolving anything. I think the reason I post these things is to vent. I guess I don't really have any other outlet for my thoughts and just need to get things off my chest.

It's a shame that you have no other outlet at the moment but I'm glad that you are able to speak your mind here

You are probably voicing the feelings of a large number of people - and you have hit the nail exactly on the head when you say that by not reaching out you're unlikely to meet likeminded people. It's a classic no pain, no gain situation - but I think you know that already.

I think you're entitled to come on here any time you like and vent, get things off your chest etc. Just be upfront about it rather than asking how to meet guys etc.

We all need to have a bit of a rant from time to time and people here are generally very supportive and encouraging. We all have our good and bad days, so let it out!

J_E

eaglach wrote: »

A name like "wet and wild" may seem innocent enough, but it's honestly off putting. I don't know, I just get the feeling that most things gay orientated, whether it be groups or bars or whatever, go for either the camp approach or for some sort of sexual innuendo. I don't think it helps the "community" when things are promoted in this way.

This post makes me so mad...I don't think it would be wise for me to reply to it...

endacl

eaglach wrote: »

I don't think it helps the "community" when things are promoted in this way.

Straight guy tuppence worth! Feel free to ignore....

A community that you're part of and accepts you is one that you alter by your belonging.

That's all I got.

I'll just get back to my masculine hetero stereotypical stuff now. Sorry for the intrusion.

Now where did I leave that hammer.......

baby and crumble

Op, no-one minds you coming in to vent, at all. I think we get frustrated when someone comes in and constantly asks the same question, seemingly ignoring everything we say. You know?

My honest advice to you? You sound like someone who is still unsure of where they fit in- if at all. When I first came out I felt a lot like you. Why was everything based in bars? Why was so much of the scene geared towards men? You know what I had to do? I had to work to be ok with all aspects of the scene. I may not understand the draw of Bear Feile, as an example, but I say fair play to them. Do you see what I'm saying? You seem to have an awful lot of assumptions about great swathes of people, that are quite unjustified.

I doubt all gay bars are only full of camp guys. (I know they aren't. And even if they are, how do you know you won't make a friend? You don't only have to be going out to find a boyfriend. I'll be honest too, attitudes that denigrate gender non-conformity really bug me, but that's a post for another day...)

I doubt everyone in Wet and Wild is sleazy and only thinking about sex. Have you ever gone to an event?

Your assumptions and fears about stepping outside your comfort zone are holding you back, hugely. For many years I saw the world in black and white only. If you'd told me when I was 16 that one day I'd be sitting in a gay bar chatting about transgenderism with a group of women who only had polyamorous relationships, and who ran underground feminist zines on South America... Well, I would have freaked out. I was a NORMAL GAY. Not a weird one like that.

Oh, youth and niaivetee.

Daith

eaglach wrote: »

A name like "wet and wild" may seem innocent enough, but it's honestly off putting. I don't know, I just get the feeling that most things gay orientated, whether it be groups or bars or whatever, go for either the camp approach or for some sort of sexual innuendo. I don't think it helps the "community" when things are promoted in this way.

Right and what about Emerald Warriors which I also mentioned. Gay rugby group. Or is it Emerald...Oz...Dorothy....Camp.

Wet and Wild is also the name of a water theme park in Orlando. https://www.wetnwildorlando.com/

You're looking for issues when there aren't. Take a risk go to a group instead of assuming everything.

floggg

eaglach wrote: »

Looking back on my post history I see! I keep forgetting you can do that!

The advice from previous posts that I have tried is going to the gay bars, which I didn't like. I guess I could try clubs and societies, but to be honest it is all very "fruity", no offence. I mean with a name like "Wet and Wild", seriously?

I met my last boyfriend online through one of those dodgy websites. This was after years being on it and he happened to be one of the minority that just wasn't after NSA. I must have talked to hundreds of guys up until that point! He was in the same position as me as well.

I don't know what my ideal scenario is. I guess I'm just frustrated with my current situation and there is little I can do about it.

Dude? Seriously?

You won't do bars because they are too "camp", won't do clubs and societies because they are too "fruity" and won't do face pics online.

So seeing as you aren't really interested in putting yourself out there, taking a risk or getting over your own hang-ups and misconceptions, there's not much we can do for you.

I can only suggest going away for a few years and growing up.

There's not much point in even telling you that you are wrong on the bars and clubs (there is some camp guys alright, but what harm - You aren't defined by them. There's also plenty of folks just like you if you actually made an effort to look for them) seeing as you are too caught upon what you don't like to ever find somebody new.

Also, the only places you can get fired for being gay are places ran by religious institutions like certain hospitals and schools. And I know teachers who aren't out for fear of losing their job who still manage to put a face pic up.

If they do it, you've no real "career" excuse - other than those of your own making. The rest of us risk unspoken prejudices holding us back too, but it sure is a damn sight easier to deal with than a life time of "woe is me" self sabotage.

See you next year for the similar thread.


PS - for the sake of others reading this, if somebody had career concerns is generally be sympathetic and understanding. The difference here is that the OP seems to be refusing to do anything to step out of his comfort zone, and is still expecting the universe to some how hand him what he wants.

floggg

eaglach wrote: »

A name like "wet and wild" may seem innocent enough, but it's honestly off putting. I don't know, I just get the feeling that most things gay orientated, whether it be groups or bars or whatever, go for either the camp approach or for some sort of sexual innuendo. I don't think it helps the "community" when things are promoted in this way.

I see Ten of Swords has referenced an old post by flogg about me "struggling with my identity". That's not it at all. I know exactly who I am and I've no problem with it. The problem I have is finding where I fit in with everyone else! I know there are like minded gay guys out there in the same position as myself. But as I say if they are in the same position as myself, I am unlikely to bump into them!

Honestly, if you aren't struggling with your identity, then maybe you should struggle with it a little bit because your current one isn't a good look.

Why in the world would a community that developed for the purpose of allowing LGBT people to be comfortable and safe in expressing their identity and sexuality have to censor their sexuality out of the picture.

What kind of horrible repressed world would that be.

Straight people don't censor the sex out of society (there's even subtle sexual innuendos in children's cartoons - animaniaca was ripe with them when I was a kid). And yet we have to?

And for whose benefit? Who exactly are we promoting it to and how will that promotion benefit from censuring ourselves?

I presume it's can't be for gay peoples own sake.

If you subscribe to the view that gay people should conform to straight society and tone down their gayness to be accepted by straight people, then you should realise the absurdity of that argument.

If LGBT people are only "accepted" as long as the conform and hide the sexual part of their sexuality, then they aren't accepted at all. They are just tolerated as long as they abide by the majority's terms.

LGBT people will only be accepted for who and what they are when they are free to be who and what they are openly and without fear of being censured or discriminated against.

So the "conform to be accepted" argument is just so ridiculous that it shouldn't even need to be explained.

Scruffy...The Janitor

I remember when I was in the closet and deathly afraid of being found out. I would think things like.

'Can't be seen hanging around with this gay mate of mine too much. Everyone will think I'm gay'

'Can't wear a pink t shirt. It's very camp. Everyone will think I'm gay'

Then for a while after I came out I would worry about things like being very conscious about how I acted, gestured, stood etc. I wanted to be the 'straight acting' gay lad and didn't want to be part of the scene etc. I was still very uptight and unsure of my identity and focussed too much on the negative aspects of being gay.

I think you're at this stage. As has been said before you need to put yourself out. Yeah sure, you can go to a gay bar and there may be a bunch of flaming queens in the corner. So what. Like it or not they're part of the community that you're part of. Don't pay them any attention or associate with them if they're not your thing. There'll also be plenty of lads you wouldn't in a million years have guessed are gay. At the moment you just don't notice them cos you're too busy with the negatives.

Same goes for wet and wild. It's like me with the pink t shirt. You're attaching connotations to something that simply aren't there for anyone else. As was said before, there's a theme park in Orlando called Wet and Wild. How many parents do you think avoid bringing their kids to the park cos of it's innuendo?

For the record tho, the only social/sports group I have any experience of is Wet and Wild. It's great for meeting gay men and women in a social setting. But if you go to any of their events with the sole intention of meeting someone to get with you, won't fit in. I would imagine a lot of the groups are the same.

floggg

Scruffy...The Janitor wrote: »

I remember when I was in the closet and deathly afraid of being found out. I would think things like.

'Can't be seen hanging around with this gay mate of mine too much. Everyone will think I'm gay'

'Can't wear a pink t shirt. It's very camp. Everyone will think I'm gay'

Then for a while after I came out I would worry about things like being very conscious about how I acted, gestured, stood etc. I wanted to be the 'straight acting' gay lad and didn't want to be part of the scene etc. I was still very uptight and unsure of my identity and focussed too much on the negative aspects of being gay.

I think you're at this stage. As has been said before you need to put yourself out. Yeah sure, you can go to a gay bar and there may be a bunch of flaming queens in the corner. So what. Like it or not they're part of the community that you're part of. Don't pay them any attention or associate with them if they're not your thing. There'll also be plenty of lads you wouldn't in a million years have guessed are gay. At the moment you just don't notice them cos you're too busy with the negatives.

Same goes for wet and wild. It's like me with the pink t shirt. You're attaching connotations to something that simply aren't there for anyone else. As was said before, there's a theme park in Orlando called Wet and Wild. How many parents do you think avoid bringing their kids to the park cos of it's innuendo?

For the record tho, the only social/sports group I have any experience of is Wet and Wild. It's great for meeting gay men and women in a social setting. But if you go to any of their events with the sole intention of meeting someone to get with you, won't fit in. I would imagine a lot of the groups are the same.

Good advice generally.

On your last point, I think that point (not to go to these things with the sole intention of meeting somebody) applies to life generally.

The best way of meeting somebody is to stop looking for somebody, and instead just try to be as interesting and open minded to new experiences and people as possible.

The more people you meet, the more you are likely to meet the one. And the more interesting you are, the more likely you are to engage him and keep his interest.

And a positive outlook and attitude is much more attractive than a negative and reluctant one.

feardeas

Hi

Can relate somewhat to how the op feels as I was somewhat similar in the past. However as I'm sure most people would say there are all sorts in the gay bars and clubs camp,masc,tall,small etc. There are all sorts in life in general.

As for wet and wild, look at their fb page, they are a sports activity group that all I could question is their fondness of doning wetsuits and hitting the waters of the Atlantic............ [never been on one of their events but know a few lads that have and its good craic]. Don't know if people meet other halves but if they do fair play sure lord look at all the people who go playing tag rugby during the summer, I'm sure lurking in some of their minds is the idea they might meet someone for whatever.

Takes a while to become comfortable with ourselves, when I did i began to pass little or no notice of whether someone is camp masc or whatever.

Also in my experience men think about sex quite a bit, be they straight, bi or gay.

Finally you have had a bf, you may very well find another one. decent lads of all sorts out there.

Good luck with it all.

Annasopra

eaglach wrote: »

A name like "wet and wild" may seem innocent enough, but it's honestly off putting. I don't know, I just get the feeling that most things gay orientated, whether it be groups or bars or whatever, go for either the camp approach or for some sort of sexual innuendo. I don't think it helps the "community" when things are promoted in this way.

You're completely overthinking a tiny minute insignificant detail of the name.

If you can't see beyond the name then you will continue to feel sorry for yourself forever to be honest.

Daith

I'm wondering what this thread would have been like if I didn't mention Wet and Wild.....

Rick_

At least you have tried going to a gay bar. It may not have been for you, but at least you gave it a go, which is a tough prospect for those that have never been. Have you ever considered going back and giving it another try, or even going to a different bar? You will see all types in a gay bar, but I actually think that you went in with such a negative feeling towards it, the camp stereotypes you have a dislike of stood out in your mind more than anything else and you allowed your mind to sour the memory of the night. Obviously not every person there was camp or effeminate so I would urge you to give the bars another go, and don't go in and be a wall flower either! Chat to people you aren't getting a 'camp' vibe from, but even if they are camp, or if a camp guy approaches you, it doesn't make them less of a human being and not worthy of your time. You might make a new friend out of them, someone you can socialise with on or off the scene, or they may even be someone that has a masculine, straight acting gay friend who could introduce the two of you. You won't know until you try.

There are dating sites, POF and OKCupid! being the least sleazy of them (in my experience), Gaydar being one of the most sleazy (in my experience) and the rest in between. But there is no set place for you to find a partner, each one has as much chance as the other, be it a website, gay social group, a local coffee shop, a museum... I myself am currently in a relationship (at long last!) with a wonderful guy and we are very happy together. Where did we meet? It started off as a random chat on Grindr one night. Grindr. A gay cruising app. I never used the app for sex, as like you, I find that whole side of the gay culture to be sleazy and off-putting, but I did chat to guys on it when bored as a distraction, and look what happened. Two people who had a hell of a lot in common about everything in life started randomly chatting and got on so well they met up and have had the time of their lives in the last 3 months. You can find someone in the least likely of places if you open yourself up to the possibility of it. If you harbour negative thoughts about things like bars or gay groups then you'll never get anywhere as statistically these are the places you will be most likely to have success in meeting someone. As another poster has already said, the world isn't going to change to accommodate you. You are the one that has to make the effort. The first place to start is with yourself. Sort out in your head that the scene is gonna be camp in some way, but that's life. So what? Once you accept that then you can visit the scene and enjoy it in a way you haven't been able to before. Hell, at one point I felt the same as you. I didn't want to go anywhere near the scene as all I had ever heard was stories about how camp it was, how effeminate the guys were and how sex obsessed it was. But I realise now this was all coming from jaded people who were sick of the scene either because they had been there so often it didn't offer them anything new, or they were guys who had never been or only been once or twice and instantly formed a negative opinion of it, probably because of what they were told beforehand too! It's a vicious cycle!

Regards showing your face, you will probably find that people online will not accept excuses for not showing face pics. You say it is career orientated, but I've had a gay cop show me his face pics (and other things besides). I am not sure what career would make it wrong for you to show your identity online. I find that a lot of less experienced gay guys have the same thoughts about people finding out who you are and 'exposing you', but in doing so they'd expose themselves so that's not gonna happen. Your parents and family aren't on these gay sites, so who cares if a face pic is shown, all they have is a face and a username. What can they do with that?

To sum up, all of your situation seems to be stemming from your own hang-ups over campness, innuendo laden names and fear of being front page news in your local paper. All of these things are in your control and you yourself have to get over them and realise they do not affect your life in any way but you are choosing to let them. Until you do that you are doomed to repeat the same steps over and over until you look back at your post history on here and your life in general and realise you wasted so much time complaining about your situation and not doing anything about it, and that is time you'll never get back. If you want your life to improve then go and do something about it, and do it now.

Aard

Daith wrote: »

I'm wondering what this thread would have been like if I didn't mention Wet and Wild.....

Likely not incredibly different. OP just looking for excuses not to step outside his comfort zone.

eaglach

Aard wrote: »

Likely not incredibly different. OP just looking for excuses not to step outside his comfort zone.

Not helpful at all.

What I don't get is why I am seen as the one who is wrong here everytime. Is it so hard to believe that someone is not interested in these places or activites?

Look at it this way, imagine a straight person having to go to special clubs or bars to meet potential partners. This is not the case. Of course, they have the option to use dating sites or joining social groups for these purposes, but most people don't have to do this. Straight people can go about their normal day and potentially meet a partner.

Now you might say a gay person can meet someone in their normal day, but for me this is unlikely. I think I have a broken gaydar.

Look, I get that there's no changing this situation and the only way to deal with it is to get out there and interact with the gay community or whatever, but it's just frustrating that we have to do that, to go out of our way to meet potential partners. So yeah, I guess this is a venting session. Sorry.

Oh and on the point of showing my face online, it's not that I don't show my face to people, I just don't advertise it if you get what I mean. As long as I know that the person is not connected with my workplace I don't mind.

baby and crumble

eaglach wrote: »

Look at it this way, imagine a straight person having to go to special clubs or bars to meet potential partners. This is not the case. Of course, they have the option to use dating sites or joining social groups for these purposes, but most people don't have to do this. Straight people can go about their normal day and potentially meet a partner.

Actually, that's basically what straight bars are. And waaaaay more people than you think are on dating sites, trust me. All you have to do is go to PI here to see how difficult people find it to meet people, regardless of sexuality.

eaglach wrote: »

Now you might say a gay person can meet someone in their normal day, but for me this is unlikely. I think I have a broken gaydar.

Look, you're just making excuses now. I'm sorry but you are. I'm terrible with the whole gaydar thing too but if I was single I'd just have to deal with it. I met my gf doing voluntary work in college. One of my friends met her gf in work. Another met his boyfriend through mutual friends.

If you don't ask someone out, if you don't risk rejection, if you don't try new activities or going new places your life is simply not going to change. You'll be back in a year bitching about it. You need to act for change. As trite as that sounds.

Ten of Swords

eaglach wrote: »

Look, I get that there's no changing this situation and the only way to deal with it is to get out there and interact with the gay community or whatever, but it's just frustrating that we have to do that, to go out of our way to meet potential partners. So yeah, I guess this is a venting session. Sorry.

Everyone has to do that, regardless of sexuality. If you don't put yourself out there and take a little risk now and then nothing will happen for you and you will be in the exact same situation next year, and the year after and so on.

You've tried a gay bar and didn't like it, OK, maybe that one wasn't for you - try another one. They're not all the same and can cater for a wide range of clientele.

You don't like the thought of joining a club or society, again OK but don't get hung up on the name for fuсk sake.

You want to meet nice guys on dodgy websites and it does happen, rarely. So you can either continue to roll the dice on these sites and hope it comes good for you again or be pro-active, you don't need a good gaydar to meet nice guys, just some self confidence and common sense. A defeatist attitude is very offputting.

J_E

eaglach wrote: »

Look, I get that there's no changing this situation and the only way to deal with it is to get out there and interact with the gay community or whatever, but it's just frustrating that we have to do that, to go out of our way to meet potential partners. So yeah, I guess this is a venting session. Sorry.

Oh and on the point of showing my face online, it's not that I don't show my face to people, I just don't advertise it if you get what I mean. As long as I know that the person is not connected with my workplace I don't mind.

I would say if anything, it's far easier to hook up being gay with the amount of people on phone apps. If you don't want to show your face, just say you'll send pic in messages after gauging someone or after they send theirs to you, problem solved. Going to have to get a little uncomfortable if you want things to progress.

If you want a middle of the line bar that isn't 'camped up', Front Lounge is a good place to start. Ideally, you might want to adjust your mindset on the whole 'straight-acting' thing though. Being afraid of someone who is camp (and don't get me wrong, not being attracted is not the same as being afraid) is a reflection of insecurity.

floggg

eaglach wrote: »

Not helpful at all.

What I don't get is why I am seen as the one who is wrong here everytime. Is it so hard to believe that someone is not interested in these places or activites?

Look at it this way, imagine a straight person having to go to special clubs or bars to meet potential partners. This is not the case. Of course, they have the option to use dating sites or joining social groups for these purposes, but most people don't have to do this. Straight people can go about their normal day and potentially meet a partner.

Now you might say a gay person can meet someone in their normal day, but for me this is unlikely. I think I have a broken gaydar.

Look, I get that there's no changing this situation and the only way to deal with it is to get out there and interact with the gay community or whatever, but it's just frustrating that we have to do that, to go out of our way to meet potential partners. So yeah, I guess this is a venting session. Sorry.

Oh and on the point of showing my face online, it's not that I don't show my face to people, I just don't advertise it if you get what I mean. As long as I know that the person is not connected with my workplace I don't mind.

The reason you are seen as being in the wrong is because you continually ask for the same advice and continue to ignore the advice then given. Advice that has worked well for each and every one of the rest of us.

That, and the fact that you continue to believe in and repeat the same naive/ignorant mis-characterisations about gay people and the gay community, and refuse to acknowledge the realities of the LGBT community which the rest of us all see and live.

I don't know about the girls here, but a lot of the gay men on this forum have been in a similar headspace to you in terms of wanting to disassociating ourselves with the supposed campiness and feminist of the gay scene and other gay people. We did so out of a fear that this is how we would be seen by others, and maybe worse by ourselves, by association. Giving into the glittery side would mean we'd stop being ourselves and just become another limp wristed poof as far as the world was concerned.

And a lot of us also liked the comfort of the closet and didn't want to leave it.

But we all came to the realisation that we had to get over that **** if we didn't want to end up all alone and miserable for the rest of our life.

So we did something about it. It wasn't necessarily easy but we did it.

You don't seem to be willing to do anything about your situation, yet expect us to provide you with a solution to your problem.

And you refuse to acknowledge that maybe the problem could be with you, and your attitudes and insecurities, rather than being the gay scenes for being too gay, or life for dealing you a bum hand.

When I finally acknowledged I was gay and came out, the first 12 months were hard at times. I too hated the fact that I had to go make a new social circle, go to special clubs just to meet guys, change things in my life when others didn't have to. The first time I went to a gay event I walked him in tears - not because I didn't enjoy it but because I was so pissed off with the fact I had to jump through all these hoops that my straight friends didn't.

But I also knew there was no way around it and I had to do it. Unless I wanted to stay lonely and miserable I had to change my life and get out there. Even if I hated it at the time, I knew that it was necessary and worth it, and that I would be extremely unlikely to regret any of it.

And I don't. I'm so glad that I did it. If was tough but even during the toughest times in my first 12 months I was happier for having decided to finally live my life for me then I ever was living in the apparent comfort of the closet. What's more I grew to love the extra community I now had, even if all aspects of it weren't for me. I love that I can walk into a tiny gay bar anywhere in the world and automatically be a part of a community.

So nobody blames you for feeling the way you do. And we know it can take time to work your way through all those issues.

Your problem is not wanting to work through then. Not recognising it's your **** that you need to get over and that life won't get better until you change something. If you don't want to change and are more comfortable in the closet that's fine, but make peace with what you are CHOOSING to give up for it. And don't expect life to provide happiness for you when you are choosing to turn your back on the opportunities to pursue it.


As for the online profile pics, that's up to you what you do. Just so you know though, if I was on a dating site/app I generally wouldn't give a guy without a pic a second look. Lots of guys would have the same attitude.

Generally, those are the guys that want a proper, healthy, and functional relationship. Probably the type of guys you might look for.

Well grounded guys who want something real and meaningful tend to look for guys who have their **** together. I generally presume a guy who isn't willing to show his face and just interact normally doesn't have his **** together.

So as long as you value your privacy over everything else, that attitude is going going to put off a lot of the better men before you even begin.

baby and crumble

floggg wrote: »

I don't know about the girls here, but a lot of the gay men on this forum have been in a similar headspace to you in terms of wanting to disassociating ourselves with the supposed campiness and feminist of the gay scene and other gay people. We did so out of a fear that this is how we would be seen by others, and maybe worse by ourselves, by association. Giving into the glittery side would mean we'd stop being ourselves and just become another limp wristed poof as far as the world was concerned.

When I first came out I was TERRIFIED of being like the stereotypical butch women I'd see in The George in the early 2000's. Short spiky hair, terrible dress sense, check shirts, whose only flirting tactic seemed to be staring angrily at other women. I was 19/ 20 and convinced that 'those women' were 'giving us a bad name'. Basically, I was being a f*cking little brat. I was also scared that I might be a bit like them. (With better hair though. )

It's not just guys that don't like the extreme gender stuff, trust me. Butch women get just as sh*t as camp guys do. We're the more visible side of things, most of us can't 'pass' for straight to save our lives. And we all know that a lot of the community resents us, for being who we are. I get it- I DID it, but at some stage you have to realise that a community is made up of lots of different types. And we all deserve a space. Even though I understand it, I do get annoyed with people like the OP and my younger self for being so hung up on appearance and mannerisms. You may be missing out on meeting amazing friends, lovers, partners by not wanting to be associated with 'that kind' of gay. You're a 'normal' gay, right? Not one of 'them'.

Sorry. That was probably a bit off topic. I've only had about 3 hours sleep and got shouted at in the street the other day so I'm a bit sensitive.

Rick_

floggg wrote: »

<snip>... Giving into the glittery side... <snip>

Sorry, I had to laugh. I love this!

OP, I was like you when I was in my late teens and early 20's. Seriously, I was. But I did eventually realise that unless I did something then nothing was gonna change and that life wasn't gonna modify itself just for me. So, I put my face pic on my online profiles, I tried talking to anyone and everyone on dating sites, I went to a gay bar, terrified, but I went, I approached guys, I got over the fact that some guys are 'a bit girly' (I think I have mellowed and perhaps at times acted a bit girly myself, usually with drink involved though!)... Essentially I took all that negative shíte I was harbouring and just let it go and do you know something? I am much happier and healthier for it and I'm so glad I did it. If I could go back and shout at my younger self and tell him to do it sooner I would. Life is too short for hang-ups on little things.

Honestly, this advice gets trotted out constantly to every user who posts it, (I myself made threads like yours on here a few times and was told the same thing), and the reason why it is given out is because it is the truth and it works if you follow it. It took me a while before it sank in, I dealt with it and then followed it, but it does work. I hope that soon enough you realise that and do something about it, so that in time to come you yourself are a much happier person for it and you'll be on here one day telling the next guy about what he should be doing and how it changed his life for the better.... just like I'm doing for you now.