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Amazing public reaction experiment - you have to watch this

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2

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    #32
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    Maguined wrote: »
    So this example of physical violence towards someone is not allowed to be physically defended against but others are? Where do you draw the line then? 2 slaps? 3 slaps?

    I understood we were discussing the issue in the posted video - no physical 'defending' was required - he just slapped her back because he was pissed off that he'd been slapped.

    I don't have any problem with someone using appropriate physical violence to defend themselves or others from an on-going assault.


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    #33
    Maguined
    Registered Users Posts: 8,247 ✭✭✭Maguined


    Barely There wrote: »
    I understood we were discussing the issue in the posted video - no physical 'defending' was required - he just slapped her back because he was pissed off that he'd been slapped.

    I don't have any problem with someone using appropriate physical violence to defend themselves or others from an on-going assault.

    Yes but on-going assault is easy to define in hindisght. If you are in a pub and a man came up and punched you in the face who long do you take to react until you choose to defend yourself? If you are attacked will you only ever wait until you are punched a second time before you classify it as an on-going assault and then choose to defend yourself? Why is 2 strikes ongoing and not 1? Or for that matter why not wait until the 3rd blow before you classify it as on-going?

    That is a lot of conscious decision making to be done in a slit second reaction when someone hits you.


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    #34
    drumswan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭drumswan


    Barely There wrote: »
    I understood we were discussing the issue in the posted video - no physical 'defending' was required - he just slapped her back because he was pissed off that he'd been slapped.

    I don't have any problem with someone using appropriate physical violence to defend themselves or others from an on-going assault.

    Someones never been in a physical fight. You dont get to take notes and analyse things while someone is hitting you in the face


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    #35
    Seriously?
    Registered Users Posts: 252 ✭✭Seriously?


    The returned slap looks more instinctive than something they put any thought into, unlike the female who assaulted them.


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    #36
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    drumswan wrote: »
    Someones never been in a physical fight. You dont get to take notes and analyse things while someone is hitting you in the face

    I got slapped in the face pretty hard by a crazy ex-girlfriend once - quite a while ago now.
    Didn't deserve it either:(

    I didn't slap her back though.


    Presumably I should have smacked the crazy-bint as hard as possible - just in case like :rolleyes:

    Nobody was hitting anyone btw - somone had been hit and decided to hit back.


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    #37
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    Maguined wrote: »
    Yes but on-going assault is easy to define in hindisght. If you are in a pub and a man came up and punched you in the face who long do you take to react until you choose to defend yourself? If you are attacked will you only ever wait until you are punched a second time before you classify it as an on-going assault and then choose to defend yourself? Why is 2 strikes ongoing and not 1? Or for that matter why not wait until the 3rd blow before you classify it as on-going?

    That is a lot of conscious decision making to be done in a slit second reaction when someone hits you.

    Yep it is. Each situation must be assessed in it's own rights, there's no hard and fast rules - I'm commenting on the situation in the posted video.

    And btw - In a court of law, you better be damn well able to say that you did assess and consider the sitation before resorting to violence - you won't get far pleading that your 'instintive reactions' just took over.


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    #38
    drumswan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭drumswan


    Barely There wrote: »
    And btw - In a court of law, you better be damn well able to say that you did assess and consider the sitation before resorting to violence - you won't get far pleading that your 'instintive reactions' just took over.
    If you, unprovoked and without warning, strike me in the face and I strike you in return that is simple self-defence. I am entitled to use physical force to prevent you striking me a second time. You are grasping to make a point, Im not sure even you know what it is.


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    #39
    TimeToShine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭TimeToShine


    Barely There wrote: »
    I got slapped in the face pretty hard by a crazy ex-girlfriend once - quite a while ago now.
    Didn't deserve it either:(

    I didn't slap her back though.


    Presumably I should have smacked the crazy-bint as hard as possible - just in case like :rolleyes:

    Nobody was hitting anyone btw - somone had been hit and decided to hit back.

    A girlfriend is different from a random bimbo who has been berating you publicly for the last 10 minutes.


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    #40
    Panda_Turtle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭Panda_Turtle


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    If a jack Russell has aggressive behaviour nothing is done about it...
    If a Rottweiler has aggressive behaviour, it's put to sleep

    Jack Russells are awesome.



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    #41
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    drumswan wrote: »
    If you, unprovoked and without warning, strike me in the face and I strike you in return that is simple self-defence. I am entitled to use physical force to prevent you striking me a second time. You are grasping to make a point, Im not sure even you know what it is.


    I'm quite aware of my point thanks.

    Can you point out where the bolded part of your post is contradicted in any of my posts though?

    Presumably in the scenario you've outlined you'll have no trouble demonstrating in court that you had a reasonable expectation that the assault would continue and that your response was warrented, reasonable and appropriate?

    I doubt that guy in the video could.


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    #42
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    TimeToShine wrote: »
    A girlfriend is different from a random bimbo who has been berating you publicly for the last 10 minutes.

    Please elaborate.


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    #43
    Maguined
    Registered Users Posts: 8,247 ✭✭✭Maguined


    Barely There wrote: »
    Presumably I should have smacked the crazy-bint as hard as possible - just in case like :rolleyes:

    I expressly said I do not think it was an intelligent decision, I said I would not blame someone for reacting in such a way as it's an instinctive thing in do. It's hard coded into us, fight or flight.

    It is not as black and white as attacking back is good or attacking back is bad, it's a very grey area and hence I do not lambast someone for striking back, nor do I praise them for it as you seem to have implied on more than one occassion which I personally find quite discourteous from you.


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    #44
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    Maguined wrote: »
    I expressly said I do not think it was an intelligent decision, I said I would not blame someone for reacting in such a way as it's an instinctive thing in do. It's hard coded into us, fight or flight.

    It is not as black and white as attacking back is good or attacking back is bad, it's a very grey area and hence I do not lambast someone for striking back, nor do I praise them for it as you seem to have implied on more than one occassion which I personally find quite discourteous from you.

    Well, I apologise for that and accept that you didn't.


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    #45
    2Mad2BeMad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭2Mad2BeMad


    Nothing worse

    On a night out I have seen it plenty of times, a women(child) beating a man , slapping him quite hard and punching him, as soon as the man raises his hand, then every f*cking white knight from dublin comes crawling in to defend the women

    Its not like the movies, women are as bad as men.

    If anything I want to punch around the white knights for been idiots getting involved
    Fair enough if the man is beating her to a pulp then by god intervene, but if its an argument why do people especially "white knights" jump in to defend the women straight away,

    My mate used to get boxed around by his girlfriend, only reason he stuck with her was because he has 2 kids with her, out in tescos 1 day and she smashed a glass jar of those baby carrots on him, he was bleeding quite badly, in reaction to this he boxed her square in the face, and started saying sorry. Thats how much control over him she had, and guess what as soon as he touched her, 2 lads jumped him.
    Video evidence shows what she did and now hes in court trying to get to see his kids.


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    #46
    drumswan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭drumswan


    Barely There wrote: »
    Presumably in the scenario you've outlined you'll have no trouble demonstrating in court that you had a reasonable expectation that the assault would continue and that your response was warrented, reasonable and appropriate?
    My concern would be self defence no matter who had assaulted me (having been in a row before, as have most people), not the nuances of some Walter Mitty court scenario. Some people are just born victims I guess - 'I better not defend myself in case I get in trouble' is a pretty pathetic reaction to an assault.


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    #47
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    Barely There wrote: »
    And btw - In a court of law, you better be damn well able to say that you did assess and consider the sitation before resorting to violence - you won't get far pleading that your 'instintive reactions' just took over.
    Do you have anything to back this up with.
    It would seem strange to me for a court to dismiss an action that is instinctive, given that they are hard-wired and very difficult to consciously overrule.


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    #48
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    drumswan wrote: »
    My concern would be self defence no matter who had assaulted me (having been in a row before, as have most people), not the nuances of some Walter Mitty court scenario. Some people are just born victims I guess - 'I better not defend myself in case I get in trouble' is a pretty pathetic reaction to an assault.

    Well, If you're going to resort to personal insults there's no point continuing the discussion with you.


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    #49
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    Do you have anything to back this up with.
    It would seem strange to me for a court to dismiss an action that is instinctive, given that they are hard-wired and very difficult to consciously overrule.


    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/man-gets-life-for-murder-of-nanny-30-269803.html

    This one springs to mind as it's quite recent.

    His main defence was that he 'snapped/saw red/lost control'

    Didn't work though.


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    #50
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,321 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Ok so your girlfriend smacked you in the face when you did not deserve it right? What did the gardai and court say about this scenario? Or do you see assault within a relationship as not worthy of reporting?


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    #51
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,321 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Barely There wrote: »
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/man-gets-life-for-murder-of-nanny-30-269803.html

    This one springs to mind as it's quite recent.

    His main defence was that he 'snapped/saw red/lost control'

    Didn't work though.

    Mod note - Do not drag the thread off topic. Noone is discussing murder here.


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    #52
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    Ok so your girlfriend smacked you in the face when you did not deserve it right? What did the gardai and court say about this scenario? Or do you see assault within a relationship as not worthy of reporting?


    Didn't feel the need to either slap her back or report it tbh.


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    #53
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,321 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Barely There wrote: »
    Didn't feel the need to either slap her back or report it tbh.

    So violence within a relationship is ok by you then? If your sister was smacked by her husband would you encourage the same course of action? Try and consider the double standard you are suggesting here.

    Gonna bow out here as not fair to mod and contribute at the same time


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    #54
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    So violence within a relationship is ok by you then

    Seriously, WTF?


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    #55
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    If your sister was smacked by her husband would you encourage the same course of action

    TBH responding to this would be dragging the thread off topic, given we're not discussing the rights and wrongs of reporting domestic violence to the Guards.

    The court discussion came up in the context of defending a returned slap and whether it was justified.


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    #56
    Maguined
    Registered Users Posts: 8,247 ✭✭✭Maguined


    Barely There wrote: »
    TBH responding to this would be dragging the thread off topic, given we're not discussing the rights and wrongs of reporting domestic violence to the Guards.

    The court discussion came up in the context of defending a returned slap and whether it was justified.

    Here is a case in Australia where a man got into a fight over a queue in a take away. He was acquitted because it could not be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he was simply defending himself. This resulted in the death of the man but it is quite clear that in the eyes of the law you are allowed defend yourself from violence by violent means.


    http://www.thejournal.ie/sydney-man-acquitted-of-fatal-assault-on-irish-backpacker-368976-Feb2012/


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    #57
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    Maguined wrote: »
    Here is a case in Australia where a man got into a fight over a queue in a take away. He was acquitted because it could not be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he was simply defending himself. This resulted in the death of the man but it is quite clear that in the eyes of the law you are allowed defend yourself from violence by violent means.


    http://www.thejournal.ie/sydney-man-acquitted-of-fatal-assault-on-irish-backpacker-368976-Feb2012/

    It's a case by case basis.

    There is no hard and fast rules to the appropriate response.

    I still stand by my opinion that in the original video which sparked this debate, that the guys reaction to being slapped was inappropriate.


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    #58
    Morpork
    Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭Morpork


    Remember this one?
    I remember from the comments, there were many girls saying the guy was right to hit her back.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ksmnk2Eic80


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    #59
    Azwaldo55
    Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭Azwaldo55


    It is not only just female domestic violence that is overlooked but female sexual violence and pedophilia.
    In recent years there have been high profile expos of pretty young female teachers who have been having sex with teenage students both male and female under their charge. Teenage girls as baby sitters can also be sexual abusers of prepubescent children both male and female and of course middle aged and elderly women who are relatives or also in various positions of authority as coaches, nurses, doctors, caregivers etc are also sexual abusers too. Society refuses to believe that women and young girls can be abusive and violent and sexual predators and therefore refuse to take the issue seriously.


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    #60
    NoCrackHaving
    Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭NoCrackHaving


    I've said this before and I'll say it again. Very few people of either gender will intervene in a fight between two strangers (regardless of the gender of the strangers).

    A woman could be beaten senseless by a man but I guarantee you that 95% of the public would just stand by and do nothing. As harsh as it sounds people generally won't be themselves in harms way for strangers of either gender.

    Hence the video is pointless.


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    #61
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    NoCrackHaving wrote: »
    I've said this before and I'll say it again. Very few people of either gender will intervene in a fight between two strangers (regardless of the gender of the strangers).

    A woman could be beaten senseless by a man but I guarantee you that 95% of the public would just stand by and do nothing. As harsh as it sounds people generally won't be themselves in harms way for strangers of either gender.

    Hence the video is pointless.

    The point of the video was the differing reactions. Not just whether people intervened or not but that in the female attacking the male video people not only didn't intervene, they scoffed and laughed. In the male on female version the opposite reaction was seen, concern and empathising with the victim. So the video wasn't pointless, it had a clear point (it just went over your head).

    (Whether it made that point with selective editing or not aside).


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