Focus 1.6tdci - dreaded Turbo problem MAYBE

martinr5232

quietsailor wrote: »

Oi shag off you :P,

Op here
No it was serviced yearly by the main Ford dealer I bought it from and once or twice serviced early - when the NCT would have been up well before the service interval. The last 2 services were with a large Indy here in Cork who'd be well regarded (don't want to post names)

I worked with diesels at sea so was conscious of them needing to be ran at load or/and worked hot to keep them in good fettle,

The mileage is low - 160K in 9 yrs - as I was in college for 4 of those yrs;

• First 3 yrs I worked so 40 minute drives to/from work, minimum city driving.
• In college the only trips would have been long ones over those 4 yrs - Cork Offaly every weekend, occasionally Cork - Limerick & parked during the week.
• In the last 2 yrs it's mainly 40 min drives to/from to work with small drives to the city.

When there was short trips around the city I would have arranged it so that I had several places to visit & would have stuck them in order so it was stopped for minutes and then driven again - keep the engine hot and then leave the longest stop for last.

I wouldn't be the kind to love a car - it's a tool not a family member - but I am mechanically sympathetic so won't abuse a car either. Any car of mine is serviced regularly. Had I known about the turbo issue I would ahve had the sump dropped at 5 yrs and the oil pipe changed for the better one and then shorter service intervals.

Too late now I think!

It might not be turbo at all so untill ya pull the intake off you might be worrying over nothing.

Henry Ford III

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

This year alone I have seen two 407s with turbo failure and one ford focus.

A friend of mine bought a new focus back in 08 and the turbo went in his last year. This car had been properly maintained.

4 cars is hardly a representative sample is it?

thedonscork

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

True, if use the incorrect oil on a 1.9tdi it will probably eventually give problems, such as camshaft wear etc. Howevever if you use the correct oil in them they seem to just go on and on and in general they give very few issues, that is apart from the bxe units of course.

The same can't be said for the 1.6 hdi's. You can use the correct grade of oil and change it on time and the thing still can and does give turbo and sludge problems.

Just look at all of the examples of turbo issue on these engines in the UK. A vast majority of these have a full service history .

I still think most new hdi diesels using the right low sap oil should give no problems. My dad had a 2004 Peugeot 407 1.6 hdi for nearly ten years and serviced it on time with main dealer and did 170k miles without any engine or turbo issue whatsoever before recently trading it in. My sister has a 2008 308 1.6hdi without any problems so far either.

Remember this engine is also used by Ford, citroen, Volvo, Suzuki, Mazda, mini and more, so basically these engines are everywhere so I doubt the problem is as common as some people suggest.

JohnBoy26

Henry Ford III wrote: »

4 cars is hardly a representative sample is it?

That's just my experience of them in the last few years, In have seen others.

If you look it up you will see that turbo failure is a very common occurrence on these.

Henry Ford III

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

That's just my experience of them in the last few years, In have seen others.

If you look it up you will see that turbo failure is a very common occurrence on these.

It's an enormously popular power plant, and even with a low failure rate there will be quite a few failures.

How common do you reckon turbo failure is as a percentage of total production?

kala85

How much would it cost to fix the turbo and fix the engine

JohnBoy26

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It's an enormously popular power plant, and even with a low failure rate there will be quite a few failures.

Turbos are failing on a regular basis across the board on cars fitted with these engines.

You see failures like these far less in other cars with an engine in common. Take the 1.9 tdi for example, apart from the bxe engines, this unit has been consistently good across a large range of cars, from vw to skoda, seat, Audi, ford etc.

But say for instance you are correct and there is a low rate of failure. But what if this 1.6 hdi engine was confined to one or two manufacturers. Wouldn't that "low failure rate" suddenly become a high failure rate and wouldn't that engine be recognized as having a fault or issues?

Henry Ford III wrote: »

How common do you reckon turbo failure is as a percentage of total production?

I don't know, I don't have figures of total production, do you? What do you think the percentage is?

Henry Ford III

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Turbos are failing on a regular basis across the board on cars fitted with these engines.

You see failures like these far less in other cars with an engine in common. Take the 1.9 tdi for example, apart from the bxe engines, this unit has been consistently good across a large range of cars, from vw to skoda, seat, Audi, ford etc.

But say for instance you are correct and there is a low rate of failure. But what if this 1.6 hdi engine was confined to one or two manufacturers. Wouldn't that "low failure rate" suddenly become a high failure rate and wouldn't that engine be recognized as having a fault or issues?

I don't know, I don't have figures of total production, do you? What do you think the percentage is?

Exactly.Your experience is so limited it's statistically irrelevant.

I maintain they are a fine engine, and are reliable particularly when serviced regularly and properly. More importantly the reviews from the big review sites based on real life feedback of thousands tend to agree. I don't think you could reasonably claim to have a better or wider based opinion.

Yes failures happen, but they happen with almost every volume manufacturer
- VAG's 2.0tdi, Mazda's 2.0 diesel, and even BMW's 520d all have exhibited various issues.

mullingar

And to go on record, there are 3 of these engines in the immediate family and zero have suffered major problems.

My wife has a 110hp 1.6 Focus '06, dpf-deleted and remapped on a dyno to 130hp 3 years ago. In 6 years of ownership (the wife loves the car) and 130k miles on it now, all that has gone wrong with it is the dpf, an alternator and a turbo actuator solenoid. It's a super reliable car.

I would fully recommend this engine to anyone as long as it has a full service history.

JohnBoy26

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Exactly.Your experience is so limited it's statistically irrelevant.

I maintain they are a fine engine, and are reliable particularly when serviced regularly and properly. More importantly the reviews from the big review sites based on real life feedback of thousands tend to agree. I don't think you could reasonably claim to have a better or wider based opinion.

Yes failures happen, but they happen with almost every volume manufacturer
- VAG's 2.0tdi, Mazda's 2.0 diesel, and even BMW's 520d all have exhibited various issues.

This post doesn't answer any question I put to you. I have hands on experience with this engine and this is backed up by others having the same or similar experience.

Do you have any hand on experience with these? Or do you just read honest john the whole time?

Also how can you dismiss my claim that they are a poor engine and then go on to "maintain they are a fine engine" when you can't give figures, statistics and percentages yourself?

D Weasel

Modern diesels are cack. Techno problems abound. Stick with petrol

quietsailor

martinr5232 wrote: »

It might not be turbo at all so untill ya pull the intake off you might be worrying over nothing.

Oh I'm afraid I'm not worrying about nothing. I don't have precise measuring gear here in cork but it was ~2mm radially and 1mm axially so that cannot be good.

So back to the original question - does anyone know of a mechanic that has dealt with these problems before.

And the big question - how much

JohnBoy26

mullingar wrote: »

And to go on record, there are 3 of these engines in the immediate family and zero have suffered major problems.

My wife has a 110hp 1.6 Focus '06, dpf-deleted and remapped on a dyno to 130hp 3 years ago. In 6 years of ownership (the wife loves the car) and 130k miles on it now, all that has gone wrong with it is the dpf, an alternator and a turbo actuator solenoid. It's a super reliable car.

I would fully recommend this engine to anyone as long as it has a full service history.

Why didn't you put a new dpf in it?

Henry Ford III

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

This post doesn't answer any question I put to you. I have hands on experience with this engine and this is backed up by others having the same or similar experience.

Do you have any hand on experience with these? Or do you just read honest john the whole time?

Also how can you dismiss my claim that they are a poor engine and then go on to "maintain they are a fine engine" when you can't give figures, statistics and percentages yourself?

I've actually owned a few - 6 I think.

I don't need to provide figures either - Honest John and Parkers, and various other motoring sites and publications all give the engines positives reviews. I can go get the links if you like.

The proof of the quality of this engine is both comprehensive and conclusive.

mullingar

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Why didn't you put a new dpf in it?

Cheaper not to.

mullingar

wrong thread

JohnBoy26

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I've actually owned a few - 6 I think.

I don't need to provide figures either - Honest John and Parkers, and various other motoring sites and publications all give the engines positives reviews. I can go get the links if you like.

The proof of the quality of this engine is both comprehensive and conclusive.

The last time you quoted honest john you gave the wrong link to suit your argument. But sure if you take his word as gospel I will give the "comprehensive and conclusive "link
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/ford/focus-2004/?section=good

10-8-2011: On 1.6TDCI, reports of oil feed pipe blockages to the turbo resulting in repeated failed turbos.

16-1-2012: Turbo problem on 1.6TDCI/1.6HDI DV6 appears to be getting worse: Reader reports 1.6TDCI at 56,000 miles: "Car lost power plus growl/whine indicating turbo trouble - drove gently 3 miles to local garage where tech confirmed - pulled inlet rubber pipe and demonstrated wear in turbo bearings. He is quite clued up and knows a lot about this problem. There is a huge amount of evidence of similar cases in the Backroom forum and others, and there is clearly a serious problem affecting this engine. The cure is not just a new turbo, but new oil pipe, pump, pick-up, etc etc. Ford dealer prices for repairs are £1,200 for parts alone. There was a Ford TSB45/2008 about this. Newer engines (2008+) have modified parts so problem does not tend to happen to the 2008 facelift cars . Apparently you can get a new turbo for £350 plus £120 for a "kit" of modified pipes/pick-up unions etc. from Transitpartsuk (International Parts Ltd) to fit next week.


I'm not so sure that the facelift cars are cured either, my mates one was a facelift and it failed in that and I know of at least one more facelift that suffered the same issues as well.

JohnBoy26

mullingar wrote: »

Who's trolling?

Henry Ford III

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

The last time you quoted honest john you gave the wrong link to suit your argument. But sure if you take his word as gospel I will give the "comprehensive and conclusive "link
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/ford/focus-2004/?section=good

10-8-2011: On 1.6TDCI, reports of oil feed pipe blockages to the turbo resulting in repeated failed turbos.

16-1-2012: Turbo problem on 1.6TDCI/1.6HDI DV6 appears to be getting worse: Reader reports 1.6TDCI at 56,000 miles: "Car lost power plus growl/whine indicating turbo trouble - drove gently 3 miles to local garage where tech confirmed - pulled inlet rubber pipe and demonstrated wear in turbo bearings. He is quite clued up and knows a lot about this problem. There is a huge amount of evidence of similar cases in the Backroom forum and others, and there is clearly a serious problem affecting this engine. The cure is not just a new turbo, but new oil pipe, pump, pick-up, etc etc. Ford dealer prices for repairs are £1,200 for parts alone. There was a Ford TSB45/2008 about this. Newer engines (2008+) have modified parts so problem does not tend to happen to the 2008 facelift cars . Apparently you can get a new turbo for £350 plus £120 for a "kit" of modified pipes/pick-up unions etc. from Transitpartsuk (International Parts Ltd) to fit next week.


I'm not so sure that the facelift cars are cured either, my mates one was a facelift and it failed in that and I know of at least one more facelift that suffered the same issues as well.

As I said it's a very popular engine and some failures will inevitably happen. That's a tiny sample though - how many cars are involved?

Now it seems the car in question is a 2005 model so here's a few relevant quotes based on a huge amount of relevant data and feedback:-

Parkers... The 1.6-litre TDCi with 110 bhp is the most popular - it pulls sweetly and has plenty of punch for effortless overtaking.

and

It has been on sale since 2005 and no significant problems have yet appeared. Owners have reported to us that this Focus is very reliable - much like the previous model.

Car rates 4.5 out of 5.

Honest John... 1.6 TDCi UPDATE

I've just spent a week with a Focus 1.6 TDCI 110 Ghia. It has the same smooth 16v common rail diesel engine as the Citroen C4 and Peugeot 407SW also tested here. Slightly higher geared in the Focus at around 31mph per 1,000rpm.

This made it a very quiet cruiser, but tended to emphasis the lack of torque right at the bottom end. However, that was easy to drive around.

but

Bland styling. Estates lack sufficient sound proofing. Turbo failure increasingly common on high mileage 1.6 TDCIs. DMF and DPF failures can also make a cheap Focus diesel very expensive.

Car gets a 3 out of 5 rating.

What Car.... The 1.6 diesel and petrols power most of the cars cars in the used market and, as you'd expect, they make the most sensible buys. However, the 108bhp version of the diesel is better in every way than the 89bhp engine.

Car gets a 5 out of 5 rating.

thedonscork

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I've actually owned a few - 6 I think.

I don't need to provide figures either - Honest John and Parkers, and various other motoring sites and publications all give the engines positives reviews. I can go get the links if you like.

The proof of the quality of this engine is both comprehensive and conclusive.

I have to agree, this engine has been around for 10 years now in 6 or 7+ makes of cars and models. These engines are everywhere you look and I doubt everyone around us is having this issue so I consider it a very low failure rate. I know plenty people as already said who have this engine in their car and have had no issues at all. I had a Passat 1.9 tdi and it was a complete disaster of a car. Everything went in it except the gearbox.

And If its such a problem why are all these manufacturers using PSA units for years and continue to do so? Even GM recently signed up to using PSA diesels as well.

Bpmull

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

5W 30 C2 oil.

My view of them anyway is that they are a dreadful engine and turbo failure is very common on them. Maybe the reason you don't see this a lot is because you work for ford and with an expensive job like this, on a 5-6 yearold car, very few will bring it to them. A good Indy works out cheaper.

+1 on this.
I've been there had a focus 1.6tdci 07 and never again. I'm sure there a very reliable engine for the first 3 years of there life or so but after that they go down hill fast. Although the turbo didn't go in mine it's all the small things. Constant oil leaks, intercooler pipes failing. My one started getting fairly smokey too near the end of the time I had it. I service mine every 6k miles only ever used genuine ford parts for everything and used Mobil ford spec 5w30 oil. I beyond babied the car and Yet still all it done was fcuked me over every second day.

Left me stranded on the motorway for 6 hours one night as I couldn't get a tow truck for that long. It just decided to die at 70mph no advance warning no nothing. You could argue I just bought a lemon dodgy one. But yet I looked at 9 of them and this one was by far the cleanest one best minded. I bought my one with 100k km on it sold it at 135k km. there was nothing actually wrong with the car when I sold it but I actually got paranoid over it waiting for the next thing to go wrong.

The mk5 golf 1.9tdi I have now cost a good bit more to buy. But it's worth it in my opinion. Just get in turn the key and go no messing no oil anywhere no smoke no nothing.

thedonscork

Bpmull wrote: »

+1 on this.
I've been there had a focus 1.6tdci 07 and never again. I'm sure there a very reliable engine for the first 3 years of there life or so but after that they go down hill fast. Although the turbo didn't go in mine it's all the small things. Constant oil leaks, intercooler pipes failing. My one started getting fairly smokey too near the end of the time I had it. I service mine every 6k miles only ever used genuine ford parts for everything and used Mobil ford spec 5w30 oil. I beyond babied the car and Yet still all it done was fcuked me over every second day.

Left me stranded on the motorway for 6 hours one night as I couldn't get a tow truck for that long. It just decided to die at 70mph no advance warning no nothing. You could argue I just bought a lemon dodgy one. But yet I looked at 9 of them and this one was by far the cleanest one best minded. I bought my one with 100k km on it sold it at 135k km. there was nothing actually wrong with the car when I sold it but I actually got paranoid over it waiting for the next thing to go wrong.

The mk5 golf 1.9tdi I have now cost a good bit more to buy. But it's worth it in my opinion. Just get in turn the key and go no messing no oil anywhere no smoke no nothing.

I on the other hand had a Passat 1.9 tdi and it was the worst thing I ever spent money on. Injector failures, clutch fly wheel, turbo issue, egr valves, brake master cyclinder failure, constant cv joint failures, ball joints, arm links and bushings, wheel bearing, brake switch, headlight switch, power window failure and interior fan motor gone. An absolute money pit of a car!

My wifes Audi a3 1.9 tdi had only 65k miles and 4 years old when the gearbox went not to mention a whole lot of other issues before that. I will never buy German again!

All the German marques are at the very bottom of the yearly Warranty Direct Reliability Index and to me that's no surprise!

CJhaughey

thedonscork wrote: »

And If its such a problem why are all these manufacturers using PSA units for years and continue to do so? Even GM recently signed up to using PSA diesels as well.

Its not all PSA diesels. The 2.0HDI was a great engine the 2.2 less so. But none of them seem to give the grief that the 1.6 unit gives.
Small things can be annoying but repeated Turbo failures are hard to defend.
There are few engines that die like the DV6 unit.
Remember the first 3.0 Isuzu common rail units? they used to to the same thing. Their engineers fitted basically a direct oil feed from the oil pump to the turbo which stopped the problem.
Why has PSA and the manufacturers not done something similar in the time this engine has been out?
Its a known problem with this specific powerplant

Bpmull

thedonscork wrote: »

I on the other hand had a Passat 1.9 tdi and it was the worst thing I ever spent money on. Injector failures, clutch fly wheel, turbo issue, egr valves, brake master cyclinder failure, constant cv joint failures, ball joints, arm links and bushings, wheel bearing, brake switch, headlight switch, power window failure and interior fan motor gone. An absolute money pit of a car!

My wifes Audi a3 1.9 tdi had only 65k miles and 4 years old when the gearbox went not to mention a whole lot of other issues before that. I will never buy German again!

All the German marques are at the very bottom of the yearly Warranty Direct Reliability Index and to me that's no surprise!

Any 1.9tdi we've had has never caused any real trouble. I'm not saying they will be completely trouble free either. No secondhand car is going to be. I've only had the golf 2 months it's 07 with 105k km on it. So I suppose it will take a good year before I can judge it properly on reliability. But I intend keeping it for 3 years at least. I was just very lucky to find such a clean one. Not to many 07 cars still going around with factory plastic on the interior lights. It will be interesting to see what it will be like with 200 k km or so on it. Although the 05 octavia we recently got rid of had 200k km on it and in 2 years of ownership all in needed was 2 cv boots which were less than 100 quid. Other than that just basic service items.

thedonscork

Bpmull wrote: »

Any 1.9tdi we've had has never caused any real trouble. I'm not saying they will be completely trouble free either. No secondhand car is going to be. I've only had the golf 2 months it's 07 with 105k km on it. So I suppose it will take a good year before I can judge it properly on reliability. But I intend keeping it for 3 years at least. I was just very lucky to find such a clean one. Not to many 07 cars still going around with factory plastic on the interior lights. It will be interesting to see what it will be like with 200 k km or so on it. Although the 05 octavia we recently got rid of had 200k km on it and in 2 years of ownership all in needed was 2 cv boots which were less than 100 quid. Other than that just basic service items.

Again I hope you don't have the massively expensive failures and problems myself and wife have had with vw/audi but maybe one can be lucky or unlucky, same with the psa 1.6 diesel engines. My dad drove the original 1.6 hdi engine for 10 years in a 407 and 170 k miles without any issue happening and my sister has a 6 year old 308 1.6 hdi without any trouble either. I know plenty focus drivers with no problems either.

Surely one of the manufacturers who use this power plant like ford, Volvo, Suzuki, bmw mini, Mazda and Peugeot themselves would have flagged this issue over the last 10 years if it is such a problem in the first place?! That's why I think the failure rate is relatively low.

bear1

Guys, this thread has gone so far off topic the OP probably won't even bother to keep up with it.
3 pages now of people debating about the engine rather than what the OP has asked.
Maybe create a separate thread where people can debate the engine in question.
OP give these lads a bell:

http://www.corkautoservices.com/about-cork-auto-services/

quietsailor

bear1 wrote: »

Guys, this thread has gone so far off topic the OP probably won't even bother to keep up with it.
3 pages now of people debating about the engine rather than what the OP has asked.
Maybe create a separate thread where people can debate the engine in question.
OP give these lads a bell:

http://www.corkautoservices.com/about-cork-auto-services/

Thank you Bear1,

I actually came in to post pretty much those same words, nice and all as it is to start a thread that is so popular it doesn't get me out of the **** I find myself in right now, I badly need a mechanic that knows the repair work on these engines, anything else is useless but interesting info to me

thedonscork

quietsailor wrote: »

Thank you Bear1,

I actually came in to post pretty much those same words, nice and all as it is to start a thread that is so popular it doesn't get me out of the **** I find myself in right now, I badly need a mechanic that knows the repair work on these engines, anything else is useless but interesting info to me

O learys garage in Doneraile just off the cork Limerick road near Mallow deals with this engine and cars all the time and at very reasonable prices compared to main dealer. olearysgarage.com

quietsailor

thedonscork wrote: »

O learys garage in Doneraile just off the cork Limerick road near Mallow deals with this engine and cars all the time and at very reasonable prices compared to main dealer. olearysgarage.com

Thanks for that

Qs

Gazzmonkey

Well since we are sharing tales of woe,

I bought a 2008 B8 A4 2.0TDI last December and imported it from the UK, so I have it for little over 5 months.

The Issue's I've experienced since then are;

now fixed
Dual mass flywheel, clutch, release bearing, front wheel bearings.

not yet fixed
steering angle sensor, warped rear brake disc, fan inside dash making whistle noise, mild vibration when steering left or right at low speed.

and as of this morning a drivers side headlight fault!

Should've stayed Japanese.