Focus 1.6tdci - dreaded Turbo problem MAYBE

quietsailor

Hey Folks,
For any TL;DR ers - Focus 1.6TDCi possible turbo problem - has anyone dealt with a mechanic that seemed comfortable dealing with this issue?


Background info
I've a weird metallic noise coming from the car in the last week, noticeably between 1700-2200 rpm and sounds like something that's spinning is impinging on another bit of metal :eek:
A smaller problem is a lack of grunt immediately after I change up, it takes a second for the car to start accelerating in the new gear

After a bit of googling the problem comes up as possibly the turbo - but could be a dirty oil pipe or a banjaxed injector as the root cause.

The question I need some info on is has anyone dealt with a mechanic around the Cork - Limerick area (hopefully along the Cork Limerick road as I travel that a lot) who has worked with these engines a lot. I've been reading up on the problem and it's usually something else that causes the problem & the turbo is the symptom so they need to knew what to look for first and then change rather than simply swopping a turbo out.

bear1

How is the oil level?

martinr5232

Check the turbo yourself when the engine is cold loosen the jubilee clip on the intake pipe going onto the turbo.
See is there any play up and down on the impellor and make sure it turns freely.

We have a service bulletin from ford on the procedure for replacing a blown tutbo which involves replacing the oil pipes and flushing the engine ive only had to do it once and it wasnt a success the car was back after a few thousand km with turbo gone again.

If you have had your car serviced to spec you shouldnt really have a problem its very unusual for us to see a blown turbo on these cars even with high milage so hopefully its only something minor that is causing your problem.

bishopofn

martinr5232 wrote: »

If you have had your car serviced to spec you shouldnt really have a problem

No.

Mine was serviced every 12,000 miles and had oil/filter changed every 6,000 miles.

Turbo still went before 100,000 miles.

Leaking injector seal, the poor mechanic spent all morning clearing out the carbon buildup, which is what killed the turbo.

Known design flaw with this engine, google it.

Any ticking noise/exhaust odour in the cabin OP?

martinr5232

bishopofn wrote: »

No.

Mine was serviced every 12,000 miles and had oil/filter changed every 6,000 miles.

Turbo still went before 100,000 miles.

Leaking injector seal, the poor mechanic spent all morning clearing out the carbon buildup, which is what killed the turbo.


Known design flaw with this engine, google it.

Any ticking noise/exhaust odour in the cabin OP?

I dont need to google it ive worked on ford for years and the only time we have had issues is when vehicles are not serviced to spec.

Its possible for a turbo to go at any time like any other component but we dont see it very often as ive said i have replaced one turbo in about five years and havent seen that many done either certainly not like the horror stories that you hear.

FrontDoor

martinr5232 wrote: »

If you have had your car serviced to spec you shouldnt really have a problem its very unusual for us to see a blown turbo on these cars even with high milage so hopefully its only something minor that is causing your problem.

Wait, hold on, I thought these yokes were a ticking time bomb? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Ever time they are mentioned around here, the same few guys suggest you run a mile.

bishopofn

martinr5232 wrote: »

I dont need to google it ive worked on ford for years and the only time we have had issues is when vehicles are not serviced to spec.

It appears we have an unfortunate conflict of evidence :-)

thedonscork

bishopofn wrote: »

No.

Mine was serviced every 12,000 miles and had oil/filter changed every 6,000 miles.

Turbo still went before 100,000 miles.

Leaking injector seal, the poor mechanic spent all morning clearing out the carbon buildup, which is what killed the turbo.

Known design flaw with this engine, google it.

Any ticking noise/exhaust odour in the cabin OP?

That's why its important to use the low sap manufacturer's spec oil when servicing to prevent the carbon build up on all PSA/Ford engines. Most garages use only standard cheap rubbish which leads to this build up even if you are servicing on time. It's still not that common though when looked after.

martinr5232

bishopofn wrote: »

It appears we have an unfortunate conflict of evidence :-)

Out of interest how did a leaking injector kill the turbo ?? That really doesnt make any sense.

And leaking injector seals is down to poor maintenance if the vehicle was serviced properly leaking injector seals would have been spotted before it becomes an issue.

What grade of oil were you using in your car when it was being serviced and where were you getting it serviced ??

martinr5232

FrontDoor wrote: »

Wait, hold on, I thought these yokes were a ticking time bomb? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Ever time they are mentioned around here, the same few guys suggest you run a mile.

As i have said maintenance is key to getting long service out of this engine probably more than any other.

If i was buying one unless it had proper verifiable history i wouldnt touch it.

FrontDoor

I hear ya.

I like browsing this forum and as sure as night follows day, the minute a problem with a Focus or Peugeot appears, a few fellas are straight in saying the engine is ****e, etc, etc.

Then somebody comes along who actually works with them and says he hardly ever sees the problem.

martinr5232

FrontDoor wrote: »

I hear ya.

I like browsing this forum and as sure as night follows day, the minute a problem with a Focus or Peugeot appears, a few fellas are straight in saying the engine is ****e, etc, etc.

Then somebody comes along who actually works with them and says he hardly ever sees the problem.

We service a lot of them its a very common engine since about 05 and will be used for the forseeable future all across the ford range.

But as i said service history is very important i wouldnt touch one without it.

JohnBoy26

martinr5232 wrote: »

Check the turbo yourself when the engine is cold loosen the jubilee clip on the intake pipe going onto the turbo.
See is there any play up and down on the impellor and make sure it turns freely.

We have a service bulletin from ford on the procedure for replacing a blown tutbo which involves replacing the oil pipes and flushing the engine ive only had to do it once and it wasnt a success the car was back after a few thousand km with turbo gone again.

If you have had your car serviced to spec you shouldnt really have a problem its very unusual for us to see a blown turbo on these cars even with high milage so hopefully its only something minor that is causing your problem.

I'd normally agree with a statement like this but where the 1.6 hdi is concerned I'm not sure that this will prevent turbo failure.

Plenty of properly maintained examples have and still are suffering from turbo failure. Its a very common issue that's not confined to these shores. In the UK and in the EU etc, these engines are suffering turbo failure also and it's not rare either,

Imo The only way to prevent it, or to at least prolong the life of the turbo is to clean the sump, pipe and replace the banjo bolt every two or three services or so.

It's common on these to see repeated turbo failure. It's next to impossible to clean out all the sludge from the engine and an engine flush will only go so far. In some cases after fitting a new turbo you can flush these engines, replace oil and filter and after a few kms both are full of sludge again.

I was reading of one case in the UK where a Peugeot 307(full main dealer S/H) suffered turbo failure which was subsequently replaced by the dealer. This car had to have 3 new turbos fitted and all failed within a few thousand km of one another.

martinr5232

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

I'd normally agree with a statement like this but where the 1.6 hdi is concerned I'm not sure that this will prevent turbo failure.

Plenty of properly maintained examples have and still are suffering from turbo failure. Its a very common issue that's not confined to these shores. In the UK and in the EU etc, these engines are suffering turbo failure also and it's not rare either,

Imo The only way to prevent it, or to at least prolong the life of the turbo is to clean the sump, pipe and replace the banjo bolt every two or three services or so.

It's common on these to see repeated turbo failure. It's next to impossible to clean out all the sludge from the engine and an engine flush will only go so far. In some cases after fitting a new turbo you can flush these engines, replace oil and filter and after a few kms both are full of sludge again.

I was reading of one case in the UK where a Peugeot 307(full main dealer S/H) suffered turbo failure which was subsequently replaced by the dealer. This car had to have 3 new turbos fitted and all failed within a few thousand km of one another.

As i said i replaced one and it was gone in a few thousand km and i followed the service bulletin flushing the engine and replacing pipes but still it failed this car had no history was all serviced on the driveway at home.

What spec oil does citroen/peugoet use ?? We use 5w30 and dont seem to really have any issues.

mullingar

bishopofn wrote: »

No.

Mine was serviced every 12,000 miles and had oil/filter changed every 6,000 miles.

Turbo still went before 100,000 miles.

Leaking injector seal, the poor mechanic spent all morning clearing out the carbon buildup, which is what killed the turbo.

Known design flaw with this engine, google it.

Any ticking noise/exhaust odour in the cabin OP?

That makes no sense.

How the hell can a build up of carbon caused by a leaking injector seal cause a turbo to go???

Any carbon build up on a leaking injector ALWAYS happens outside the engine where the unburnt diesel/exhaust leaks out around the injector. There is simply no way a piece of carbon from the side injector can get back into the engine to the turbo.


I think you should do your own googling.


Edit,

tThe 1.6TDCI/HDI is an excellent engine, yes you may have the odd failure, but nothing compared to other engines considering the millions of them on the road. Dont forget this same engine is in Fords/Volvo's/Peugeot/Citroen/BMW/Suzuki.

It has been well documented that this engine MUST get the correct weight of oil at the right interval or it will fail. Also I have no sympathy for diesel owners that don't drive a diesel engine as it requires - ie frequent long drives. All short hops will kill a modern diesel engine with sludge and other nasties.

martinr5232

mullingar wrote: »

That makes no sense.

How the hell can a build up of carbon caused by a leaking injector seal cause a turbo to go???

Any carbon build up on a leaking injector ALWAYS happens outside the engine where the unburnt diesel/exhaust leaks out around the injector. There is simply no way a piece of carbon from the side injector can get back into the engine to the turbo.


I think you should do your own googling.


Edit,

tThe 1.6TDCI/HDI is an excellent engine, yes you may have the odd failure, but nothing compared to other engines considering the millions of them on the road. Dont forget this same engine is in Fords/Volvo's/Peugeot/Citroen/BMW/Suzuki.

It has been well documented that this engine MUST get the correct weight of oil at the right interval or it will fail. Also I have no sympathy for diesel owners that don't drive a diesel engine as it requires - ie frequent long drives. All short hops will kill a modern diesel engine with sludge and other nasties.

Now i need to thank it twice :-) totally agree one hundred percent

jimgoose

thedonscork wrote: »

That's why its important to use the low sap manufacturer's spec oil when servicing to prevent the carbon build up on all PSA/Ford engines. Most garages use only standard cheap rubbish which leads to this build up even if you are servicing on time. It's still not that common though when looked after.

It's not so much the low-SAPS stuff (although this is important for newer DPF setups) but good-quality full-synth diesel formulation that's able to handle the heat-soakback from the turbo. Inferior oils will partially burn and break down over this.

mullingar wrote: »

...How the hell can a build up of carbon caused by a leaking injector seal cause a turbo to go???

Apparently this does cause contamination via galleries in the head, and eventual turbo failure.

JohnBoy26

martinr5232 wrote: »

As i said i replaced one and it was gone in a few thousand km and i followed the service bulletin flushing the engine and replacing pipes but still it failed this car had no history was all serviced on the driveway at home.

What spec oil does citroen/peugoet use ?? We use 5w30 and dont seem to really have any issues.

5W 30 C2 oil.

My view of them anyway is that they are a dreadful engine and turbo failure is very common on them. Maybe the reason you don't see this a lot is because you work for ford and with an expensive job like this, on a 5-6 yearold car, very few will bring it to them. A good Indy works out cheaper.

JohnBoy26

mullingar wrote: »

That makes no sense.

How the hell can a build up of carbon caused by a leaking injector seal cause a turbo to go???

Any carbon build up on a leaking injector ALWAYS happens outside the engine where the unburnt diesel/exhaust leaks out around the injector. There is simply no way a piece of carbon from the side injector can get back into the engine to the turbo.


I think you should do your own googling.


Edit,

tThe 1.6TDCI/HDI is an excellent engine, yes you may have the odd failure, but nothing compared to other engines considering the millions of them on the road. Dont forget this same engine is in Fords/Volvo's/Peugeot/Citroen/BMW/Suzuki.

It has been well documented that this engine MUST get the correct weight of oil at the right interval or it will fail. Also I have no sympathy for diesel owners that don't drive a diesel engine as it requires - ie frequent long drives. All short hops will kill a modern diesel engine with sludge and other nasties.

Nothing compared to others? In my view its the most problematic small diesel out there. Yes its used in lots of cars but that doesn't mean its a reliable engine.

You can maintain these to perfection and they will still bite you in the back. There is far more than the "odd" failure on the 1.6 hdi where turbos are concerned.

CJhaughey

I have seen a few of the DV6TED4's after suffering turbo failure.
If you are extremely careful with the repair it should last.
One of the problems in the Peugeot's and Citroens is the sump design, its a really poor design.
The bottom of the sump is recessed upwards so the head of the drain bolt is flush with the bottom of the sump, presumably to prevent it being ground off by contact with other objects.
The flip side (literally) of this design is the sump cannot drain fully when the bolt is removed, thus ensuring that a significant amount of oil remains in the sump.
On most engines this may or may not matter, however due to the propensity of this engine to suffer turbo failure it has to be seen as a flawed design.
A local mechanic uses a press to reverse the recess and allow free draining.
Washing the sump out with petrol cleaning all the pipes and removing the gauze screens in the Banjo bolts and oil lines.
Its a tedious job and not every mechanic is prepared or able to carry it out to the required degree.
That said I saw one lady drive her 08 Pug away with the job done and she will back in within 200 miles for another oil change.
These engines may be good and many have no problems with them, but for me I'll stick to larger capacity older diesels as long as I can.
Landcruisers also suffered from engine failure due to carbonisation from leaking injectors. Its pretty common.

martinr5232

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

5W 30 C2 oil.

My view of them anyway is that they are a dreadful engine and turbo failure is very common on them. Maybe the reason you don't see this a lot is because you work for ford and with an expensive job like this, on a 5-6 yearold car, very few will bring it to them. A good Indy works out cheaper.

Very true but i do a lot of them at home aswell and havent come across any either.

I wonder would it have anything to do with manufacturers??

How often would you come across failures in them ??

jimgoose

CJhaughey wrote: »

I have seen a few of the DV6TED4's after suffering turbo failure.
If you are extremely careful with the repair it should last.
One of the problems in the Peugeot's and Citroens is the sump design, its a really poor design.
The bottom of the sump is recessed upwards so the head of the drain bolt is flush with the bottom of the sump, presumably to prevent it being ground off by contact with other objects.
The flip side (literally) of this design is the sump cannot drain fully when the bolt is removed, thus ensuring that a significant amount of oil remains in the sump.
On most engines this may or may not matter, however due to the propensity of this engine to suffer turbo failure it has to be seen as a flawed design.
A local mechanic uses a press to reverse the recess and allow free draining.
Washing the sump out with petrol cleaning all the pipes and removing the gauze screens in the Banjo bolts and oil lines.
Its a tedious job and not every mechanic is prepared or able to carry it out to the required degree.
That said I saw one lady drive her 08 Pug away with the job done and she will back in within 200 miles for another oil change.
These engines may be good and many have no problems with them, but for me I'll stick to larger capacity older diesels as long as I can.
Landcruisers also suffered from engine failure due to carbonisation from leaking injectors. Its pretty common.

Are a lot of these newer ones carrying enough oil at all, I wonder??

FrontDoor

As an engineer (not mechanical), I'd be of the view that all engines are built to very high tolerances. Modifications are made to the process and parts over the lifetime, but, one engine from the line will be the same as the next.

The major factor impacting the life of any engine is the driver. I know of two 1.6 HDIs with 350k km + on them, on original turbo, DPF, etc. I know of another that defies its owner's attempts to kill it. Then, the various failure reports available online.

Thousands, if not millions of these things are running away fine. To my mind, the only factors in failure have to be servicing (interval and oil quality) and driving habits/patterns. I'd imagine you could abuse a turbo pretty easily by non-sympathetic driving also. The thing with this engine is that it will not tolerate poor servicing/abuse.

Some engines will tolerate abuse more than others, but I'm sure if you use incorrect oils in the 1.9 TDI or other reliable yokes, it will fail eventually as well.

CJhaughey

In my view the tolerances of this particular PSA engine are too tight for the kind of usage many get.
Either an engine is well designed or it is not, having an engine that fails because the servicing is super critical is not a good indicator of a durable engine.
Point in fact the service interval on this engine has been reduced over time by car makers that have used this unit.
That to my mind is a tacit admission that the engine cannot survive the service interval it was originally designed to survive.
In other words a bad engine design compounded by possible user neglect and incorrect usage will likely lead to premature failure.
I can accept this in an engine designed for race use but not in a passenger vehicle.

jimgoose

Fack me. It's the CVH all over again!

CJhaughey

jimgoose wrote: »

Are a lot of these newer ones carrying enough oil at all, I wonder??

Probably not, but I am not sure it makes much difference having more oil capacity.
Look at the service intervals, 30k Km is far too long for any oil in a diesel vehicle.
IMHO Its all about the manufacturers selling cars based on low servicing costs and the unfortunate side effect is that the engine may be toast just outside the warranty period.
Manufacturer gets it right and hey ho plenty of profit.
In this case PSA got it wrong and hey ho lots of failures and money and resources wasted.
Lucky people had it happen in warranty, others just had to bite the bullet and take the big hit when it happens.
Yep, and look what happened to oil technology when the sludge issue came out.

jimgoose

CJhaughey wrote: »

Probably not, but I am not sure it makes much difference having more oil capacity...

Hmmm. I'd say it does. Oil is there to do two main things besides lubrication - draw away heat, and lock away various chemical nasties within itself until change-time comes. More oil is better for those two, at least. From the manufacturers point of view, less oil capacity means less weight, more compact engines and being able to quote lower servicing costs with a straight face.

quietsailor

CJhaughey wrote: »

In my view the tolerances of this particular PSA engine are too tight for the kind of usage many get.
Either an engine is well designed or it is not, having an engine that fails because the servicing is super critical is not a good indicator of a durable engine.
Point in fact the service interval on this engine has been reduced over time by car makers that have used this unit.
That to my mind is a tacit admission that the engine cannot survive the service interval it was originally designed to survive.
In other words a bad engine design compounded by possible user neglect and incorrect usage will likely lead to premature failure.
I can accept this in an engine designed for race use but not in a passenger vehicle.

Oi shag off you :P,

Op here
No it was serviced yearly by the main Ford dealer I bought it from and once or twice serviced early - when the NCT would have been up well before the service interval. The last 2 services were with a large Indy here in Cork who'd be well regarded (don't want to post names)

I worked with diesels at sea so was conscious of them needing to be ran at load or/and worked hot to keep them in good fettle,

The mileage is low - 160K in 9 yrs - as I was in college for 4 of those yrs;

• First 3 yrs I worked so 40 minute drives to/from work, minimum city driving.
• In college the only trips would have been long ones over those 4 yrs - Cork Offaly every weekend, occasionally Cork - Limerick & parked during the week.
• In the last 2 yrs it's mainly 40 min drives to/from to work with small drives to the city.

When there was short trips around the city I would have arranged it so that I had several places to visit & would have stuck them in order so it was stopped for minutes and then driven again - keep the engine hot and then leave the longest stop for last.

I wouldn't be the kind to love a car - it's a tool not a family member - but I am mechanically sympathetic so won't abuse a car either. Any car of mine is serviced regularly. Had I known about the turbo issue I would ahve had the sump dropped at 5 yrs and the oil pipe changed for the better one and then shorter service intervals.

Too late now I think!

quietsailor

martinr5232 wrote: »

Check the turbo yourself when the engine is cold loosen the jubilee clip on the intake pipe going onto the turbo.
See is there any play up and down on the impellor and make sure it turns freely.

We have a service bulletin from ford on the procedure for replacing a blown tutbo which involves replacing the oil pipes and flushing the engine ive only had to do it once and it wasnt a success the car was back after a few thousand km with turbo gone again.

If you have had your car serviced to spec you shouldnt really have a problem its very unusual for us to see a blown turbo on these cars even with high milage so hopefully its only something minor that is causing your problem.

Hi Martin,

Thanks for that advice, If I can get out of work early I'll have a go at that.

JohnBoy26

martinr5232 wrote: »

Very true but i do a lot of them at home aswell and havent come across any either.

I wonder would it have anything to do with manufacturers??

How often would you come across failures in them ??

This year alone I have seen two 407s with turbo failure and one ford focus.

A friend of mine bought a new focus back in 08 and the turbo went in his last year. This car had been properly maintained.

JohnBoy26

FrontDoor wrote: »

As an engineer (not mechanical), I'd be of the view that all engines are built to very high tolerances. Modifications are made to the process and parts over the lifetime, but, one engine from the line will be the same as the next.

The major factor impacting the life of any engine is the driver. I know of two 1.6 HDIs with 350k km + on them, on original turbo, DPF, etc. I know of another that defies its owner's attempts to kill it. Then, the various failure reports available online.

Thousands, if not millions of these things are running away fine. To my mind, the only factors in failure have to be servicing (interval and oil quality) and driving habits/patterns. I'd imagine you could abuse a turbo pretty easily by non-sympathetic driving also. The thing with this engine is that it will not tolerate poor servicing/abuse.

Some engines will tolerate abuse more than others, but I'm sure if you use incorrect oils in the 1.9 TDI or other reliable yokes, it will fail eventually as well.

True, if use the incorrect oil on a 1.9tdi it will probably eventually give problems, such as camshaft wear etc. Howevever if you use the correct oil in them they seem to just go on and on and in general they give very few issues, that is apart from the bxe units of course.

The same can't be said for the 1.6 hdi's. You can use the correct grade of oil and change it on time and the thing still can and does give turbo and sludge problems.

Just look at all of the examples of turbo issue on these engines in the UK. A vast majority of these have a full service history .

martinr5232

quietsailor wrote: »

Oi shag off you :P,

Op here
No it was serviced yearly by the main Ford dealer I bought it from and once or twice serviced early - when the NCT would have been up well before the service interval. The last 2 services were with a large Indy here in Cork who'd be well regarded (don't want to post names)

I worked with diesels at sea so was conscious of them needing to be ran at load or/and worked hot to keep them in good fettle,

The mileage is low - 160K in 9 yrs - as I was in college for 4 of those yrs;

• First 3 yrs I worked so 40 minute drives to/from work, minimum city driving.
• In college the only trips would have been long ones over those 4 yrs - Cork Offaly every weekend, occasionally Cork - Limerick & parked during the week.
• In the last 2 yrs it's mainly 40 min drives to/from to work with small drives to the city.

When there was short trips around the city I would have arranged it so that I had several places to visit & would have stuck them in order so it was stopped for minutes and then driven again - keep the engine hot and then leave the longest stop for last.

I wouldn't be the kind to love a car - it's a tool not a family member - but I am mechanically sympathetic so won't abuse a car either. Any car of mine is serviced regularly. Had I known about the turbo issue I would ahve had the sump dropped at 5 yrs and the oil pipe changed for the better one and then shorter service intervals.

Too late now I think!

It might not be turbo at all so untill ya pull the intake off you might be worrying over nothing.

Henry Ford III

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

This year alone I have seen two 407s with turbo failure and one ford focus.

A friend of mine bought a new focus back in 08 and the turbo went in his last year. This car had been properly maintained.

4 cars is hardly a representative sample is it?

thedonscork

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

True, if use the incorrect oil on a 1.9tdi it will probably eventually give problems, such as camshaft wear etc. Howevever if you use the correct oil in them they seem to just go on and on and in general they give very few issues, that is apart from the bxe units of course.

The same can't be said for the 1.6 hdi's. You can use the correct grade of oil and change it on time and the thing still can and does give turbo and sludge problems.

Just look at all of the examples of turbo issue on these engines in the UK. A vast majority of these have a full service history .

I still think most new hdi diesels using the right low sap oil should give no problems. My dad had a 2004 Peugeot 407 1.6 hdi for nearly ten years and serviced it on time with main dealer and did 170k miles without any engine or turbo issue whatsoever before recently trading it in. My sister has a 2008 308 1.6hdi without any problems so far either.

Remember this engine is also used by Ford, citroen, Volvo, Suzuki, Mazda, mini and more, so basically these engines are everywhere so I doubt the problem is as common as some people suggest.

JohnBoy26

Henry Ford III wrote: »

4 cars is hardly a representative sample is it?

That's just my experience of them in the last few years, In have seen others.

If you look it up you will see that turbo failure is a very common occurrence on these.

Henry Ford III

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

That's just my experience of them in the last few years, In have seen others.

If you look it up you will see that turbo failure is a very common occurrence on these.

It's an enormously popular power plant, and even with a low failure rate there will be quite a few failures.

How common do you reckon turbo failure is as a percentage of total production?

kala85

How much would it cost to fix the turbo and fix the engine

JohnBoy26

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It's an enormously popular power plant, and even with a low failure rate there will be quite a few failures.

Turbos are failing on a regular basis across the board on cars fitted with these engines.

You see failures like these far less in other cars with an engine in common. Take the 1.9 tdi for example, apart from the bxe engines, this unit has been consistently good across a large range of cars, from vw to skoda, seat, Audi, ford etc.

But say for instance you are correct and there is a low rate of failure. But what if this 1.6 hdi engine was confined to one or two manufacturers. Wouldn't that "low failure rate" suddenly become a high failure rate and wouldn't that engine be recognized as having a fault or issues?

Henry Ford III wrote: »

How common do you reckon turbo failure is as a percentage of total production?

I don't know, I don't have figures of total production, do you? What do you think the percentage is?

Henry Ford III

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Turbos are failing on a regular basis across the board on cars fitted with these engines.

You see failures like these far less in other cars with an engine in common. Take the 1.9 tdi for example, apart from the bxe engines, this unit has been consistently good across a large range of cars, from vw to skoda, seat, Audi, ford etc.

But say for instance you are correct and there is a low rate of failure. But what if this 1.6 hdi engine was confined to one or two manufacturers. Wouldn't that "low failure rate" suddenly become a high failure rate and wouldn't that engine be recognized as having a fault or issues?

I don't know, I don't have figures of total production, do you? What do you think the percentage is?

Exactly.Your experience is so limited it's statistically irrelevant.

I maintain they are a fine engine, and are reliable particularly when serviced regularly and properly. More importantly the reviews from the big review sites based on real life feedback of thousands tend to agree. I don't think you could reasonably claim to have a better or wider based opinion.

Yes failures happen, but they happen with almost every volume manufacturer
- VAG's 2.0tdi, Mazda's 2.0 diesel, and even BMW's 520d all have exhibited various issues.

mullingar

And to go on record, there are 3 of these engines in the immediate family and zero have suffered major problems.

My wife has a 110hp 1.6 Focus '06, dpf-deleted and remapped on a dyno to 130hp 3 years ago. In 6 years of ownership (the wife loves the car) and 130k miles on it now, all that has gone wrong with it is the dpf, an alternator and a turbo actuator solenoid. It's a super reliable car.

I would fully recommend this engine to anyone as long as it has a full service history.

JohnBoy26

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Exactly.Your experience is so limited it's statistically irrelevant.

I maintain they are a fine engine, and are reliable particularly when serviced regularly and properly. More importantly the reviews from the big review sites based on real life feedback of thousands tend to agree. I don't think you could reasonably claim to have a better or wider based opinion.

Yes failures happen, but they happen with almost every volume manufacturer
- VAG's 2.0tdi, Mazda's 2.0 diesel, and even BMW's 520d all have exhibited various issues.

This post doesn't answer any question I put to you. I have hands on experience with this engine and this is backed up by others having the same or similar experience.

Do you have any hand on experience with these? Or do you just read honest john the whole time?

Also how can you dismiss my claim that they are a poor engine and then go on to "maintain they are a fine engine" when you can't give figures, statistics and percentages yourself?

D Weasel

Modern diesels are cack. Techno problems abound. Stick with petrol

quietsailor

martinr5232 wrote: »

It might not be turbo at all so untill ya pull the intake off you might be worrying over nothing.

Oh I'm afraid I'm not worrying about nothing. I don't have precise measuring gear here in cork but it was ~2mm radially and 1mm axially so that cannot be good.

So back to the original question - does anyone know of a mechanic that has dealt with these problems before.

And the big question - how much

JohnBoy26

mullingar wrote: »

And to go on record, there are 3 of these engines in the immediate family and zero have suffered major problems.

My wife has a 110hp 1.6 Focus '06, dpf-deleted and remapped on a dyno to 130hp 3 years ago. In 6 years of ownership (the wife loves the car) and 130k miles on it now, all that has gone wrong with it is the dpf, an alternator and a turbo actuator solenoid. It's a super reliable car.

I would fully recommend this engine to anyone as long as it has a full service history.

Why didn't you put a new dpf in it?

Henry Ford III

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

This post doesn't answer any question I put to you. I have hands on experience with this engine and this is backed up by others having the same or similar experience.

Do you have any hand on experience with these? Or do you just read honest john the whole time?

Also how can you dismiss my claim that they are a poor engine and then go on to "maintain they are a fine engine" when you can't give figures, statistics and percentages yourself?

I've actually owned a few - 6 I think.

I don't need to provide figures either - Honest John and Parkers, and various other motoring sites and publications all give the engines positives reviews. I can go get the links if you like.

The proof of the quality of this engine is both comprehensive and conclusive.

mullingar

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Why didn't you put a new dpf in it?

Cheaper not to.

mullingar

wrong thread

JohnBoy26

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I've actually owned a few - 6 I think.

I don't need to provide figures either - Honest John and Parkers, and various other motoring sites and publications all give the engines positives reviews. I can go get the links if you like.

The proof of the quality of this engine is both comprehensive and conclusive.

The last time you quoted honest john you gave the wrong link to suit your argument. But sure if you take his word as gospel I will give the "comprehensive and conclusive "link
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/ford/focus-2004/?section=good

10-8-2011: On 1.6TDCI, reports of oil feed pipe blockages to the turbo resulting in repeated failed turbos.

16-1-2012: Turbo problem on 1.6TDCI/1.6HDI DV6 appears to be getting worse: Reader reports 1.6TDCI at 56,000 miles: "Car lost power plus growl/whine indicating turbo trouble - drove gently 3 miles to local garage where tech confirmed - pulled inlet rubber pipe and demonstrated wear in turbo bearings. He is quite clued up and knows a lot about this problem. There is a huge amount of evidence of similar cases in the Backroom forum and others, and there is clearly a serious problem affecting this engine. The cure is not just a new turbo, but new oil pipe, pump, pick-up, etc etc. Ford dealer prices for repairs are £1,200 for parts alone. There was a Ford TSB45/2008 about this. Newer engines (2008+) have modified parts so problem does not tend to happen to the 2008 facelift cars . Apparently you can get a new turbo for £350 plus £120 for a "kit" of modified pipes/pick-up unions etc. from Transitpartsuk (International Parts Ltd) to fit next week.


I'm not so sure that the facelift cars are cured either, my mates one was a facelift and it failed in that and I know of at least one more facelift that suffered the same issues as well.

JohnBoy26

mullingar wrote: »

Who's trolling?

Henry Ford III

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

The last time you quoted honest john you gave the wrong link to suit your argument. But sure if you take his word as gospel I will give the "comprehensive and conclusive "link
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/ford/focus-2004/?section=good

10-8-2011: On 1.6TDCI, reports of oil feed pipe blockages to the turbo resulting in repeated failed turbos.

16-1-2012: Turbo problem on 1.6TDCI/1.6HDI DV6 appears to be getting worse: Reader reports 1.6TDCI at 56,000 miles: "Car lost power plus growl/whine indicating turbo trouble - drove gently 3 miles to local garage where tech confirmed - pulled inlet rubber pipe and demonstrated wear in turbo bearings. He is quite clued up and knows a lot about this problem. There is a huge amount of evidence of similar cases in the Backroom forum and others, and there is clearly a serious problem affecting this engine. The cure is not just a new turbo, but new oil pipe, pump, pick-up, etc etc. Ford dealer prices for repairs are £1,200 for parts alone. There was a Ford TSB45/2008 about this. Newer engines (2008+) have modified parts so problem does not tend to happen to the 2008 facelift cars . Apparently you can get a new turbo for £350 plus £120 for a "kit" of modified pipes/pick-up unions etc. from Transitpartsuk (International Parts Ltd) to fit next week.


I'm not so sure that the facelift cars are cured either, my mates one was a facelift and it failed in that and I know of at least one more facelift that suffered the same issues as well.

As I said it's a very popular engine and some failures will inevitably happen. That's a tiny sample though - how many cars are involved?

Now it seems the car in question is a 2005 model so here's a few relevant quotes based on a huge amount of relevant data and feedback:-

Parkers... The 1.6-litre TDCi with 110 bhp is the most popular - it pulls sweetly and has plenty of punch for effortless overtaking.

and

It has been on sale since 2005 and no significant problems have yet appeared. Owners have reported to us that this Focus is very reliable - much like the previous model.

Car rates 4.5 out of 5.

Honest John... 1.6 TDCi UPDATE

I've just spent a week with a Focus 1.6 TDCI 110 Ghia. It has the same smooth 16v common rail diesel engine as the Citroen C4 and Peugeot 407SW also tested here. Slightly higher geared in the Focus at around 31mph per 1,000rpm.

This made it a very quiet cruiser, but tended to emphasis the lack of torque right at the bottom end. However, that was easy to drive around.

but

Bland styling. Estates lack sufficient sound proofing. Turbo failure increasingly common on high mileage 1.6 TDCIs. DMF and DPF failures can also make a cheap Focus diesel very expensive.

Car gets a 3 out of 5 rating.

What Car.... The 1.6 diesel and petrols power most of the cars cars in the used market and, as you'd expect, they make the most sensible buys. However, the 108bhp version of the diesel is better in every way than the 89bhp engine.

Car gets a 5 out of 5 rating.

thedonscork

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I've actually owned a few - 6 I think.

I don't need to provide figures either - Honest John and Parkers, and various other motoring sites and publications all give the engines positives reviews. I can go get the links if you like.

The proof of the quality of this engine is both comprehensive and conclusive.

I have to agree, this engine has been around for 10 years now in 6 or 7+ makes of cars and models. These engines are everywhere you look and I doubt everyone around us is having this issue so I consider it a very low failure rate. I know plenty people as already said who have this engine in their car and have had no issues at all. I had a Passat 1.9 tdi and it was a complete disaster of a car. Everything went in it except the gearbox.

And If its such a problem why are all these manufacturers using PSA units for years and continue to do so? Even GM recently signed up to using PSA diesels as well.