Would you vote for a UKIP-like party if it became a major player in Irish politics?

Hotale.com

Time to stir sh*t.

Not a chance I would, Ireland and Europe will desperately need immigrants in the future to keep our economy growing.

Seaneh

How in the name of Jeses would the "United Kingdom Independence party" become a major player in Ireland?!?!

fullaljackeen

We don't need a bunch of anti-democratic marxists destroying us and the EU OP. We need a UKIP. And yes I'd vote for them. Someone needs to stop whats happening.

BandyMandy

The OP said a "UKIP-like" party!

Hotale.com

Seaneh wrote: »

How in the name of Jeses would the "United Kingdom Independence party" become a major player in Ireland?!?!

For f*ck sake you know what I mean! is the word "like" not in your vocabulary?

Bannasidhe

fullaljackeen wrote: »

We don't need a bunch of anti-democratic marxists destroying us and the EU OP. We need a UKIP. And yes I'd vote for them. Someone needs to stop whats happening.

We have a Marxist party in Ireland?

Excellent. It will be interesting to see how they make Ireland even more undemocratic than it already is.

As for UKIP, I'd cut my hand off first.

Hotale.com

fullaljackeen wrote: »

We don't need a bunch of anti-democratic marxists destroying us and the EU OP. We need a UKIP. And yes I'd vote for them. Someone needs to stop whats happening.

What's happening?

Mr. CooL ICE

Hotale.com wrote: »

For f*ck sake you know what I mean! is the word "like" not in your vocabulary?

He probably read the thread title in a Cork accent

D1stant

Seaneh wrote: »

How in the name of Jeses would the "United Kingdom Independence party" become a major player in Ireland?!?!

In fairness I think the OPs point is clear. Would you vote for a nationalist, anti-European, anti-immigration party.

In theory, I just might, and I think there is a leaning throughout Europe after the last 7 years for this which could destabalise things as unfortunately, most of the anti-Europe-immigration parties are a transparent set of racist facist cvnts

kneemos

Who's going to drive the housing boom if we don't have immigrants?

Wacker The Attacker

I'd consider voting for an irish equivalent of UKIP

Hotale.com

LordChessington wrote: »

He probably read the thread title in a Cork accent

Well I am from Cork :pac:

The Backwards Man

We need a monster raving loony party.

Crucifix

I read a story today about a UKIP politician complaining to the police about some tweets mocking their policies, and the police going round to the guy telling him he hadn't committed any offence but still asking him to take them down. Talk about PC gone mad

Greentopia

Hotale.com wrote: »

What's happening?

Immigrints that'll tuk ur jurbs I'm guessing.

RayM

Stewart Lee on UKIP:

Hotale.com

Greentopia wrote: »

Immigrints that'll tuk ur jurbs I'm guessing.

Like we took the American and English jobs since the Famine? :rolleyes:

The most ridiculous thing I find about the Irish giving out about immigrantion is that we probably have proportionately the highest emigration rates in Europe, and one of the reasons we even became somewhat modernised in the 60s was due to remittance flows.

Lapin

I'd consider voting for a UKIP style party here but not a BNP type party.

A lot of people seem to confuse the two.

Hotale.com

Lapin wrote: »

I'd consider voting for a UKIP style party here but not a BNP type party.

Tbh I doubt any sane person would.

hfallada

There is no one of whack job parties already. At the least general election I got a leaflet for one, warning me Irish people would be a minority in Dublin within a few years.

Frank Lee Midere

Hotale.com wrote: »

Like we took the American and English jobs since the Famine? :rolleyes:

The most ridiculous thing I find about the Irish giving out about immigrantion is that we probably have proportionately the highest emigration rates in Europe, and one of the reasons we even became somewhat modernised in the 60s was due to remittance flows.

This argument is weak because the Irish who didnt emigrate would be the ones voting against immigrants. If such a party existed.

maxwell smart

RayM wrote: »

Stewart Lee on UKIP:

I clicked on the link, saw Stewart Lee and thought, he's running for them????!!?....












then I read the text!

mfceiling

Hotale.com wrote: »

Time to stir sh*t.

Not a chance I would, Ireland and Europe will desperately need immigrants in the future to keep our economy growing.

Just throwing this out...in a fairly stagnant economy, with fewer jobs being created how does immigration make an economy grow? Just curious.

D1stant

Crucifix wrote: »

I read a story today about a UKIP politician complaining to the police about some tweets mocking their policies, and the police going round to the guy telling him he hadn't committed any offence but still asking him to take them down. Talk about PC gone mad

I know. I read a story tonight complaining that Twitter hadn't rescued the kidnapped girls in Nigeria

Frank Lee Midere

UKIP are anti EU. Sinn Fein are almost there - burning bond holders, opposing Brussels etc. - but quieter on immigration.

Neither are racist parties. However the EU is not in good odour with the working classes.

Greentopia

Hotale.com wrote: »

Like we took the American and English jobs since the Famine? :rolleyes:

The most ridiculous thing I find about the Irish giving out about immigrantion is that we probably have proportionately the highest emigration rates in Europe, and one of the reasons we even became somewhat modernised in the 60s was due to remittance flows.

I think you misunderstand, my comment was not meant as support for anti-immigration. You're familiar with the phrase I used?

I support the free movement of people to better their lives.

Hotale.com

hfallada wrote: »

There is no one of whack job parties already. At the least general election I got a leaflet for one, warning me Irish people would be a minority in Dublin within a few years.

I don't exactly think of this as a bad thing, as long as they're not changers there's no issue really.

People giving out about there being a high proportion of mix-raced people in Ireland in the future really gets on my nerves, they seem to have no idea that they're essentially saying that they want to keep the gene pool pure. Very Nazi-esque IMO.

Hotale.com

Greentopia wrote: »

I think you misunderstand, my comment was not meant as support for anti-immigration. You're familiar with the phrase I used?

I support the free movement of people to better their lives.

I know what you meant, I was also being sarcastic with my first point :P

maxwell smart

Don't we already have on of those?

http://www.eirigi.org/

For Forks Sake

The Backwards Man wrote: »

We need a monster raving loony party.

http://directdemocracyireland.ie/

Greentopia

Hotale.com wrote: »

I know what you meant, I was also being sarcastic with my first point :P

Well alrighty then

Hotale.com

mfceiling wrote: »

Just throwing this out...in a fairly stagnant economy, with fewer jobs being created how does immigration make an economy grow? Just curious.

We'll want the immigrants in the future when the population is greying, and why would they want to come to a country that kicked their parents out 30 years previous?

The Backwards Man

Lapin wrote: »

I'd consider voting for a UKIP style party here but not a BNP type party.

A lot of people seem to confuse the two.

I dunno, I'd be inclined to believe the BNP are more 'honest' in their intentions than UKIP. I wouldn't vote for either.

Makood

Greentopia wrote: »

I think you misunderstand, my comment was not meant as support for anti-immigration. You're familiar with the phrase I used?

I support the free movement of people to better their lives.

Once they work and contribute..

cloud493

RayM wrote: »

Stewart Lee on UKIP:

If only stewart lee wasn't a nobhead :rolleyes:

Clearlier

mfceiling wrote: »

Just throwing this out...in a fairly stagnant economy, with fewer jobs being created how does immigration make an economy grow? Just curious.

More people will need/use more goods and services creating greater demand which requires more workers to satisfy.

But that (to use an American phrase) is Economics 101 so now that I have swallowed the bait what are you trying to catch?

smellmepower

Nah,UKIP are just a bunch of wealthy right wingers masking their true political agenda by playing on the fears of pig ignorant xenophobic simpletons.

So I could see a similar party doing quite well here,unfortunately.

Frank Lee Midere

Hotale.com wrote: »

I don't exactly think of this as a bad thing, as long as they're not changers there's no issue really.

People giving out about there being a high proportion of mix-raced people in Ireland in the future really gets on my nerves, they seem to have no idea that they're essentially saying that they want to keep the gene pool pure. Very Nazi-esque IMO.

Haven't you just jumped to a totally different subject there? Immigration to Ireland is mostly EU. Why would mixed race come into it?

In any case it's possible to be anti-mass immigration and not racist. I remember when pretty much all the of the left was anti- EU/EEC and most were anti- immigration.

Somewhere in the mid 90's the right turned against the EU and the left learned to love Globalisation. But immigration in the EU context is "worker" immigration. The EU pledges free movement of capital as well. And yet it is contemplating a "Tobin tax" on capital transfers.

I'd be surprised if the left didn't u-turn again.

Hotale.com

Makood wrote: »

Once they work and contribute..

(Delete this mods if it comes across as somewhat racist, I'm trying not to be)

I'm not trying to sound like I'm insulting the older generation of African immigrants, but I'm doing my leaving cert this year and the African-born people in my year are amongst the hardest working and soundest people I've met. I know the adults get a load of stick for supposedly leeching resources, but their kids seem to be so much more motivated to do well. The top 2 LC results in my school last year were achieved by foreigners, both over 550 points.

I don't think people will have the same issues with foreigners in 20 years time when we realise that they want to work and contribute just as much as everyone else.

Frank Lee Midere

Clearlier wrote: »

More people will need/use more goods and services creating greater demand which requires more workers to satisfy.

But that (to use an American phrase) is Economics 101 so now that I have swallowed the bait what are you trying to catch?

That's definitely not economics 101. If more people came into a recession (which is what you are asked) there would just be more unemployed people. That's because there isn't enough demand for workers in a recession. Adding more workers would not increase demand.

tomwaterford

Lapin wrote: »

I'd consider voting for a UKIP style party here but not a BNP type party.

A lot of people seem to confuse the two.

what exactly are the differences....both seem to run on very dodgy anti innigration grounds.....immigration by and large tends to be good for countrys....immigrants don't tend to move to areas with no jobs...so they took our jobs complaints tend to be poorly taught out IMO

Hotale.com

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Haven't you just jumped to a totally different subject there? Immigration to Ireland is mostly EU. Why would mixed race come into it?

In any case it's possible to be anti-mass immigration and not racist. I remember when pretty much all the of the left was anti- EU/EEC and most were anti- immigration.

Somewhere in the mid 90's the right turned against the EU and the left learned to love Globalisation. But immigration in the EU context is "worker" immigration. The EU pledges free movement of capital as well. And yet it is contemplating a "Tobin tax" on capital transfers.

I'd be surprised if the left didn't u-turn again.

I've heard people give out about mixed-race kids, that's all (ignorant shower). I imagine a UKIP-like entity would have the same attitude towards non-EU immigrants than EU immigrants.

Frank Lee Midere

tomwaterford wrote: »

what exactly are the differences....both seem to run on very dodgy anti innigration grounds.....immigration by and large tends to be good for countrys....immigrants don't tend to move to areas with no jobs...so they took our jobs complaints tend to be poorly taught out IMO

Immigration is good for owners of capital, skilled workers, the immigrants, workers in non tradable sectors and civil servants. Not so much for unskilled workers.

mfceiling

Clearlier wrote: »

More people will need/use more goods and services creating greater demand which requires more workers to satisfy.

But that (to use an American phrase) is Economics 101 so now that I have swallowed the bait what are you trying to catch?

Wasn't trying to throw out bait or anything like that...

Just a point that if you have a weak economy with very few jobs being created, would an influx of immigrants actually benefit the economy? If there were approx 10,000 jobs being created in a country in a year but 30,000 people emigrated to that country surely that wouldn't benefit that country. Again, i'm not throwing out bait, i'm genuinely curious as to how that can work.

tomwaterford

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Immigration is good for owners of capital, skilled workers, the immigrants, workers in non tradable sectors and civil servants. Not so much for unskilled workers.

this is without doubt true...but the lie that they take jobs is just that...they might drive down wages...but deos antone really think UKIP are looking out for low paid unskilled workers....they appear from outside looking in to be a slightly posher version of the BNP

Clearlier

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

That's definitely not economics 101. If more people came into a recession (which is what you are asked) there would just be more unemployed people. That's because there isn't enough demand for workers in a recession.

Well I only studied first year economics in UCD so I think it probably is Economics 101!

Genuine question. Are there people who really don't understand how immigration creates greater demand?

Of course there are a whole load of other factors that come into play when it comes to meeting that demand but I think that it should be straightforward enough to understand that in general more people will create a greater level of demand than fewer people.

fullaljackeen

Clearlier wrote: »

Well I only studied first year economics in UCD so I think it probably is Economics 101!

Genuine question. Are there people who really don't understand how immigration creates greater demand?

Of course there are a whole load of other factors that come into play when it comes to meeting that demand but I think that it should be straightforward enough to understand that in general more people will create a greater level of demand than fewer people.

Demand is one part of an equation. Plenty of countries with large populations with f' all money to drive an internal market.

Frank Lee Midere

Clearlier wrote: »

Well I only studied first year economics in UCD so I think it probably is Economics 101!

Genuine question. Are there people who really don't understand how immigration creates greater demand?

Of course there are a whole load of other factors that come into play when it comes to meeting that demand but I think that it should be straightforward enough to understand that in general more people will create a greater level of demand than fewer people.

One of the basic equations of economics 101 is wage equilibrium. It clearly states that wages are a product of supply ( labour) and demand (capital). I think it's hopelessly wrong but there it is. Increasing labour supply with a constant capital demand either reduces wages, or if wages stay static because wage earners don't take a wage cut, increases unemployment.

It is only in later algorithms that economics deals with feedback loops. (Although I notice that right wing economists never support wage increases to increase demand).

hatrickpatrick

The only thing I support about the UKIP is their euroscepticism. So no.
If a socially liberal, pro-immigration, anti-EU party was formed, I'd vote for them in a heartbeat.

Frank Lee Midere

fullaljackeen wrote: »

Demand is one part of an equation. Plenty of countries with large populations with f' all money to drive an internal market.

Yeah. By the standards of economics 101 all large countries should be richer than poor ones and the higher the birth rate the better. Which just ain't true. See Pakistan.

mfceiling

fullaljackeen wrote: »

Demand is one part of an equation. Plenty of countries with large populations with f' all money to drive an internal market.

This is what i'm getting at.

Sierra Leone is probably one of the poorest countries in the world. Would a large batch of immigrants drive it's economy forward or would the lack of jobs (amongst the many other things) just keep it where it is?