advise needed

aaakev

Im looking for some advice on the firearms act please to follow up on an incident which happened today.

My parents took my 2 kids, 6 & 9, off for the afternoon and they were driving through our town when they noticed what they thought was a garda car behimd them at the lights. My dad noticed a rifle in one of their hands and said to my son that they are the guards with guns.

They then heard shouts to get out of the car and then the car pulled up along side them and a rifle pointed out the window at the car at my parents and kids. They noticed then it was not infact guards but 3 lads in their 20's .My dad who was driving took off and the other car turned off another way into an estate.

My mother called the guards straight away to report it, she was terrified and in tears and the 2 kids were terrified too. The guards took details and said they would look into it. They called my mother back a while later and said they had found them and pulled them in, they are from a local sports team (not mentioning any names or the location) who are out celebrating a win and the guns were imitation. They guards said they cautioned them and seem reluctant to take it further.

If that was me who pointed one of my guns at someone id have it taken away and find myself in big trouble. My parents and kids did not know these guns were fake. They just dropped the kids home and my mother is still very shook up and was in tears telling us.

A sergeant called back later this afternoon and asked did they want an apology off the lads in question! A ****ing apology!! I have told them to make a statement which they are doing on Wednesday as they want to take it further.

Any of the lads here who know the firearms act able to give me any advice?

Thanks

Witcher

It's supposed to be treated as if they were in fact real.

Misc. Provisions Act 2009 I think, came in to cover airsoft etc.

aaakev

Yeah I have read something like that in an airsoft shop I think, or it could have been here.

The guards on the phone didnt say it but were givomg the impression that a caution is all that could be done which I definitely do not agree with.

FOXHUNTER1

This is the type of **** that get us gun owners a bad name with the press.
I would go the whole hog with these little pricks and don't be fobbed off with the old ****e of "they are only chaps having a laugh" attitude.

BattleCorp

Try the same stunt in a bank and see if a caution is all that the Gardai can do?

I'm in two minds over this. Young lads do stupid things from time to time. Most of us have done stuff when we were young for a bit of craic that we aren't proud of.

That said, you can't go around frightening the sh1te out of people either.

I'd have no bother if the Gardai prosecuted the lads.

Cass

Try these:

Section 9(5) & 9(6) Offensiuve Weapons Act 1990:

(5) Where a person has with him in any public place any article intended by him unlawfully to cause injury to, incapacitate or intimidate any person either in a particular eventuality or otherwise, he shall be guilty of an offence.]

(6) In a prosecution for an offence under subsection (5), it shall not be necessary for the prosecution to allege or prove that the intent to cause injury, incapacitate or intimidate was intent to cause injury to, incapacitate or intimidate a particular person; and if, having regard to all the circumstances (including the type of the article alleged to have been intended to cause injury, incapacitate or intimidate, the time of the day or night, and the place), the court (or the jury as the case may be) thinks it reasonable to do so, it may regard possession of the article as sufficient evidence of intent in the absence of any adequate explanation by the accused.

As Blay said. Section 40 of the 2009 Misc. Provisions Act (amendment to section 9 of the above act):

“Possession of a realistic imitation firearm in a public place.

9A.— (1) Where a person, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the onus of proving which shall lie on him or her), has a realistic imitation firearm with him or her in any public place, that person shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable:

(i) on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding €5,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding twelve months or to both, or

(ii) on conviction on indictment, to a fine or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or to both.

aaakev

If they were young lads I would be in 2 minds myself but these are guys in their mid 20s so only a few years younger than myself!

German pointer

What they did was a criminal offence. Production of a firearm in a treathing manner be it real or fake is an offence. Are the lads involved related to or well in with the guard.

Cass beat me to it with more detail

cookimonster

Look here at this link, see the definition of assault:

(b) causes another to believe on reasonable grounds that he or she is likely immediately to be subjected to any such force or impact

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/print.html#sec2

The problem here is witnesses and evidence, I do understand that there were two adults involved but it can basically come down to 'he said, she said'. Even though the GS came tracked down the arseholes there may be very little proof of the incidence.

I have seen the warning given out ref airsoft guns, warning about possible armed response if you go out in public with them.

aaakev

German pointer wrote: »

What they did was a criminal offence. Production of a firearm in a treathing manner be it real or fake is an offence. Are the lads involved related to or well in with the guard.

I cant say because i do not know but, without saying who they are, the team they are on might have something to do with it

Cass

On a personal note the "apology" seems a dismissive way of dealing with the situation. As you said it's not a child with one playing cops and robbers that did not know any better. They are grown "men" that acted recklessly and as you said if it had been one of us, even with an imitation gun we'd loose everything, get fined and possible prison.

Get your parents to make a statement. Push for charges and follow up on it. They (Gardaí) cannot choose to ignore the matter and more importantly make sure it's logged/registered with An Gardaí. In the duty log i think it's called (someone might clarify this for me). Don't rely on word of mouth.

One last thing lads, bearing in mind my advice. and others, as well as what might come please be aware that Boards.ie has a rule on giving legal advice. It's not allowed. So keep your advice to experience or what you think should be done. No "part time solicitors" please or we'll have to close the thread. Legal advice can lead to a serious problem for us (posters) the OP, and the site.

Sparks

I recall case law examples from a few years back that said that if an imitation firearm was pointed at you but you didn't know it was an imitation then (a) it was assault and (b) it was treated exactly as seriously as if it had been a real firearm.
That's alongside the firearms act violations the others have quoted above.
Best advice if you want to pursue it (and I certainly would) would be to contact a solicitor immediately and let him or her deal with the contact with the Gardai.

valerossi

Grown men playing cops to celebrate wining a game ha these lads can't be playing with a full deck?
Make a statement they new all to well what they were at. What reaction were they after pointing a gun at people. I wouldn't leave it at that and why are the gardi willing to leave it.

aaakev

My Da called the station there, they are going up tomorrow night to make their statement. he has the relevant sections of the act and the amendments printed

A solicitor is not really an option at the moment just because of the expense but if they are not taking it seriously we will look into it and also speak to the super, who issues our FACs.

After talking again to my da i asked him what he thought the gun was, he said he thought it was a pump action shotgun. my mother said she thought it was a "big rifle"

Kinzig

The guards wont be pushing it because of "sporting connections" I bet:rolleyes::rolleyes:

tac foley

Here in friendly ol' UK actions like that can easily lead to the morgue. The rosy-cheeked and friendly coppers here get all shouty and violent when guns are being pointed around by to f******s.

I spent a lot of time in court on behalf of the Crown Prosecution Service in cases where a crime had been committed using what later turned out to have been an airsoft or blank-firing imitation. On at least four of those occasion, the police had used lethal force on the holder of the 'firearm', resulting in two deaths.

Trying out errant stupidity like this in the North of Ireland can certainly get you shot where you sit, even in these days of 'peace'.

tac

aaakev

Kinzig wrote: »

The guards wont be pushing it because of "sporting connections" I bet:rolleyes::rolleyes:

If thats the case there will be trouble but I doubt it. The sergeant my da spoke to assured him he was taking it very seriously. We will see tomorrow night I guess but it wont be let go

Cass

You're gonna have some "nay sayers" that'll claim it's a bad prank and people are flying off the handle with their re-actions. Well frankly to hell with them (that's as bad as i can put it with the swear filter in place).

If it were their parents or kids would they be so understanding? Stick to your guns lad (no pun intended).

aaakev

I definitely will. My mother is still in bits, she keeps crying at home and my 9 year old daughter has gone to bed crying over it. People can say what they like, they can also feck right off because it will not be left alone

juice1304

You are right to take them to task they could have caused an accident and this could be an entirely different thread then, That kind of carry on it simply not on they are grown men, they knew what they were doing and what kind of reaction they would get. so now they can face the consequence of their actions, I wouldn't let it go if they are blasé about it. :mad::mad::mad:

aaakev

Just an update. The Guards are taking this very serious it seems, they said they hope to prosecute

One shot on kill

Good.

homerhop

.A Lithuanian man was given a suspended 11-month sentence and fined €750 at Galway District Court for pointing a replica Kalashnikov AK47 rifle out a car window at a number of people at a shopping centre car.

aaakev

homerhop wrote: »

.A Lithuanian man was given a suspended 11-month sentence and fined €750 at Galway District Court for pointing a replica Kalashnikov AK47 rifle out a car window at a number of people at a shopping centre car.

Got a link homer?

Edit: found ot myself

www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/13624/man-pointed-fake-ak47-at-people-in-city-car-park-court-hears

meathstevie

Stupidity of the highest order, I'm with tac on this one, up the road and accross the water that would have very likely resulted in an armed police response and what's called a "firm stop". In essence you end up looking at the business end of the likes of a G36 or an MP5 and a lovely red taser dot propbably marking your chest and in a situation like that the best advice is to do exactly what's shouted at you....