Ballymurpy massacre.

Busted Flat.

Can a person with any compassion stand over this and still retain her respectability.

BY DAVID YOUNG – 30 APRIL 2014

Families of those shot dead during an Army operation in west Belfast are considering a legal challenge against a Government decision to reject an independent re-examination of the killings.
BY DAVID YOUNG – 30 APRIL 2014

As with Bloody Sunday in Londonderry six months later, members of the Parachute Regiment were involved in the shootings in Ballymurphy.
If you wear a uniform you can get away with murder.
They did the same in Iraq and Afghanistan. the law suites are only starting.

Gatling

The IRA murdered 620-640

Including 6 Gardai and one member of the our defence forces ,

I'd be happy to see the killers of our gardai punished first

diomed

Was that in the six counties?

wazky

Gatling wrote: »

The IRA murdered 620-640

Including 6 Gardai and one member of the our defence forces ,

I'd be happy to see the killers of our gardai punished first

Garda lives are worth more than the general populace?

orangesoda

gutless thugs

Busted Flat.

Gatling wrote: »

The IRA murdered 620-640

Including 6 Gardai and one member of the our defence forces ,

I'd be happy to see the killers of our gardai punished first

In your opinion a mother of eight going about her business is fair game for some low life in a uniform hiding behind sand bags to shoot her in the face.

padd b1975

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Can a person with any compassion stand over this and still retain her respectability.

BY DAVID YOUNG – 30 APRIL 2014

Families of those shot dead during an Army operation in west Belfast are considering a legal challenge against a Government decision to reject an independent re-examination of the killings.
BY DAVID YOUNG – 30 APRIL 2014

As with Bloody Sunday in Londonderry six months later, members of the Parachute Regiment were involved in the shootings in Ballymurphy.
If you wear a uniform you can get away with murder.
They did the same in Iraq and Afghanistan. the law suites are only starting.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Banjo String

orangesoda wrote: »

gutless thugs

Who are

orangesoda

Banjo String wrote: »

Who are

'the brits'

Gatling

Busted Flat. wrote: »

In your opinion a mother of eight going about her business is fair game for some low life in a uniform hiding behind sand bags to shoot her in the face.

Like the mother of ten kidnapped ,tortured and executed by the ira

diomed

I'm bored with posters cheerleading for one bunch of gunmen against another bunch of gunmen.
Didn't peace break out? Is peace upsetting?

Busted Flat.

Gatling wrote: »

Like the mother of ten kidnapped ,tortured and executed by the ira

You can the comparison there, thanks.

allthedoyles

The BBC summed this up perfectly when they said that you can have a peace process or justice , but you cannot have both.

So which would you prefer ?

punisher5112

A lot of what is coming up about years ago is money motivated from what I gather.

Still what has been done is wrong but there has to be an end to it all at some point.

Busted Flat.

allthedoyles wrote: »

The BBC summed this up perfectly when they said that you can have a peace process or justice , but you cannot have both.

So which would you prefer ?

But state terrorism is completely different, it goes to the top of government, that becomes war crimes.

Busted Flat.

punisher5112 wrote: »

A lot of what is coming up about years ago is money motivated from what I gather.

Still what has been done is wrong but there has to be an end to it all at some point.

That is disgusting.

bilston

I've an idea.

Those that killed military (British Army/RUC/Garda) or paramilitary/terrorists (IRA/INLA/UDA/UVF) personnel/members during the Troubles should be given an amnesty.

Those who murdered civilians should still face the prospect of prosecution if evidence allows.

corner of hells

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Can a person with any compassion stand over this and still retain her respectability.

BY DAVID YOUNG – 30 APRIL 2014

Families of those shot dead during an Army operation in west Belfast are considering a legal challenge against a Government decision to reject an independent re-examination of the killings.
BY DAVID YOUNG – 30 APRIL 2014

As with Bloody Sunday in Londonderry six months later, members of the Parachute Regiment were involved in the shootings in Ballymurphy.
If you wear a uniform you can get away with murder.
They did the same in Iraq and Afghanistan. the law suites are only starting.

Law suites or lawsuits ? Do you sit on one and wear the other ?

Cookie_Monster

so why is another independent examination needed?

did they get the wrong answer first time around?

Gatling

What's with all the faux outrage actually

Sound of Silence

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

so why is another independent examination needed?

did they get the wrong answer first time around?

There was no first independent examination.

Busted Flat.

corner of hells wrote: »

Law suites or lawsuits ? Do you sit on one and wear the other ?

Childish response, we are talking hear about 11 people shot dead by snipers in their barracks picking off ordinary people going about their day to day business.
It was like sniper alley in Sarajevo, only the so called peace keepers were behind the the rifles.

Gatling

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Childish response, we are talking hear about 11 people shot dead by snipers in.

11 I'd check them figures ,

Un Croissant

I was watching the news earlier and thought 'what an absolute sh*t heap. Why would either country invite that disaster zone onto themselves?'

Busted Flat.

Gatling wrote: »

11 I'd check them figures ,

Does figures really matter in a massacre.

Gatling

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Does figures really matter in a massacre.

Yes

orangesoda

Un Croissant wrote: »

I was watching the news earlier and thought 'what an absolute sh*t heap. Why would either country invite that disaster zone onto themselves?'

A few shots of Antrim police station isn't a good representation of the province as a whole

Busted Flat.

Gatling wrote: »

Yes

How many were murdered in those few days. How many brits were shot at, lets start from there.

Un Croissant

orangesoda wrote: »

A few shots of Antrim police station isn't a good representation of the province as a whole

Last year we had the big thing with flags too. It always seems to be bad news.

Sound of Silence

Gatling wrote: »

Yes

Are you taking umbrage with the one person who died of a heart attack after a soldier allegedly placed an unloaded gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger?

You seemed to be displaying significantly less compassion for these victims of the Troubles than you displayed for the McConville family.

orangesoda

Un Croissant wrote: »

Last year we had the big thing with flags too. It always seems to be bad news.

You can blame our orange neighbours for that racket, it didn't represent the entire unionist community anyway, just the thugs

Gatling

[quote="Busted Flat.;90238089How many brits were shot at, lets start from there.[/quote]


Can you actually say no British soldiers were shot at during the few days in question

Busted Flat.

Gatling wrote: »

Can you actually say no British soldiers were shot at during the few days in question

Good night couldn't be bothered.

Absoluvely

Busted Flat. wrote: »

How many were murdered in those few days. How many brits were shot at, lets start from there.

Not nearly enough :pac:

Gatling

Sound of Silence wrote: »

You seemed to be displaying significantly less compassion for these victims of the Troubles than you displayed for the McConville family.

As I said earlier justice for the 6 gardai murdered in this country first ,

wazky

Gatling wrote: »

As I said earlier justice for the 6 gardai murdered in this country first ,

Can you explain why?, in front of the countless other victims this should be the case?

Gatling

wazky wrote: »

Can you explain why?, in front of the countless other victims this should be the case?

They were murdered in this country plain and simple

wazky

Gatling wrote: »

They were murdered in this country plain and simple

And no non garda citizens were murdered, good point.

.jacksparrow.

Head, brick wall.

Sound of Silence

Gatling wrote: »

As I said earlier justice for the 6 gardai murdered in this country first ,

I'm not sure what this would have to do with your ability to display compassion. You had little difficulty in the McConville thread.

As far as Justice is concerned, the best thing possible for Northern Ireland at this moment would be to continue the Peace Process. We could spend our entire lives embroiled in the injustice of the past, and the only thing we would accomplish would be keeping the spirit of hate alive and well in the present.

The best form of justice now is to ensure that atrocities like Ballymurphy never happen again.

SEPT 23 1989

Any justice for these men?

wazky

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Any justice for these men?

Two armed soldiers rock up to a Republican funeral?, a funeral for a man murdered at another funeral by the UDA.

They died horrifically but it was their own stupidity

orangesoda

that's a whole different ball game to ballymurphy altogether

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/03/16/article-2294241-18B2CE65000005DC-29_634x474.jpg

hatrickpatrick

Gatling wrote: »

The IRA murdered 620-640

Including 6 Gardai and one member of the our defence forces ,

I'd be happy to see the killers of our gardai punished first

I condemn IRA atrocities as much as anyone, but this persistent bringing them into every single debate regarding British Army atrocities is unbelievably tiresome.

Nothing the IRA did will ever justify the brutality of the Brits, nor vice versa.

Elmer Blooker

Gatling wrote: »

Like the mother of ten kidnapped ,tortured and executed by the ira

..... and anyone murdered by Army/RUC Loyalist collusion is called "whataboutery" - they don't even have names.

y0ssar1an22

Busted Flat. wrote: »

That is disgusting.

I tend to agree, but if the seeking of compensation is motivated by justice, rather than wanting money, then the money should be donated to a just cause.

moxin

Apparently those foaming at the mouth seeking justice for the mother of ten McConville, are not foaming at the mouth here in this thread seeking justice for a mother of eight who was shot by the BA in this massacre. Hypocrites.

Shakespeare's Sister

Gatling wrote: »

The IRA murdered 620-640

Including 6 Gardai and one member of the our defence forces

I don't understand this. The opening post was about the Ballymurphy massacre... and your response is what the IRA did.
We know the IRA committed heinous atrocities, but this is about the Ballymurphy massacre.
It looks like you're saying "Boo hoo to the victims of this, the IRA were worse."
Then someone else said why no compassion for the victims in this case and your response was "justice for the six gardai murdered in this country first."

Santa Cruz

We will never progress if each side want's to have total victory. Are we going to spend forever looking back?

Shakespeare's Sister

Santa Cruz wrote: »

We will never progress if each side want's to have total victory. Are we going to spend forever looking back?

For me, it's not about "One side was yadda yadda and the other was bla bla" - I take a panoramic view of all the rotten violence. It's when people focus disproportionately on one "side" (whatever that side is) that I find objectionable.

This post puts it perfectly:

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I condemn IRA atrocities as much as anyone, but this persistent bringing them into every single debate regarding British Army atrocities is unbelievably tiresome.

Nothing the IRA did will ever justify the brutality of the Brits, nor vice versa.

Lingua Franca

Can people PLEASE stop acting like there is a hierarchy of victims? All of the victims deserve justice, no one special group deserves theirs "first" and the way any thread about an atrocity quickly descends into whatabouttery and shinnerbots vs west brits does no ones cause any favours. It doesn't stimulate debate and it does nothing to heal wounds. It's like people enjoy ripping them open to let them fester.

All unsolved atrocities, from La Mon and Enniskillen to Jean McConville to the Ballymurphy massacre and all of those in between need looked at. They need to be sorted out and dealt with and put behind us. I don't think HET is effective and Teresa Villiers demanding immunity for British soldiers is just rubbing salt into the wounds. On the other hand, the Bloody Sunday inquiry (although I welcomed that) took a ridiculous and unsustainable amount of time and money and has resulted only in vindication for the families - no prosecutions at all.

With that in mind, why the hell isn't everyone pushing for a truth and reconciliation commission? Why continue this charade? Every group accused of crime is saying that everyone else should be investigated and prosecuted except for them. People are crying down the idea of justice for Jean McConville with "what about Joan Crawford", as if one murder supersedes another. I'd be happy to see actual justice for both of them but the pragmatist in me is aware it's unlikely ever to happen. So sit everyone down and call an amnesty for anyone who can come and tell the truth and give the victims families some sort of closure.