Phonewatch Alarm monitoring question

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Hi guys, wondering if someone could help. Got a quote from phonewatch for a new install alarm, a wireless, picture sending job. Install quote was 574 euro on a three year contract, or 774 euro on a 1 year. I have no problem with that price, however the monthly monitoring cost is 37.50 per month :eek: which I do find very high. (they charge you extra for extra contacts for some bizarre reason)

Can I get the alarm and after a year change to a different monitoring company? I hear that they try charge you a fortune to cancel your monitoring but seems you chaps have ways around this.

Some advice needed, I want a monitored alarm recommendation welcomed.

Thanks

KoolKid

With that new system you wont find anyone else to monitor it or go near it.
Those monitoring fees are well above the average.
I am not a fan of internal protection only as someone is in your home before the alarm even activates. My idea of an alarm is to get rid of them while they are still trying to get in. I am also not a fan of cameras inside your home that are viewable by a monitoring station but yet you have no access to them.
I would recommend shopping around & getting a few quotes. Like for like you will get a better system with perimeter protection for less money. You will also get better value monitoring without being tied into lengthy contracts.
Another must is a live external bell & a comms line that is more secure than GSM.
Do some research before rushing into anything, believe me you will find it very worthwhile.

fred funk }{

I believe they're charging an extra €2.50 per month for every extra device needed.

kub

OP, us installers on here are professionals and know our trade well. I for one have 23 years experience in this business.

I would not advise anyone to get a phonewatch system, KoolKid has pointed out as above some reasons. They are now a Norwegian company now in the business of trying to get the money back for what ever it was they paid Eircom for this business.

The likes of KoolKid and I have to design and install systems professionally, I would love to be able to do what it is that they do. We are obliged by the EN50131 standard to do a Risk Assessment of a house or business with the potential client and then complete a System Design Proposal. How they do this is a mystery to me. Seems to me that they tell you what is adequate.

Please get at least 3 quotes from local installers, we all fit top of the range wireless stuff now, also there are dozens of alarm monitoring stations in this country which monitor alarm systems at much cheaper rates than phonewatch.

Also a black dummy alarm box at the front of your house......yeach.

All you have to do is look at the other threads here and just see how many posters are looking for advice of how to get away for the expensive monitoring charges that Phonewatch charge.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Would it be possible to get reccomendation off you guys, PM me. I dont mind if you shill yourself, I find that those that take the time to post on boards are usually honest enough.

grip n rip

Charles Swift Tycoon wrote: »

Hi guys, wondering if someone could help. Got a quote from phonewatch for a new install alarm, a wireless, picture sending job. Install quote was 574 euro on a three year contract, or 774 euro on a 1 year. I have no problem with that price, however the monthly monitoring cost is 37.50 per month :eek: which I do find very high. (they charge you extra for extra contacts for some bizarre reason)

Can I get the alarm and after a year change to a different monitoring company? I hear that they try charge you a fortune to cancel your monitoring but seems you chaps have ways around this.

Some advice needed, I want a monitored alarm recommendation welcomed.

Thanks

<snip>monitoring should be no more than €150 + vat per annum , that seems the average .

and <snip>

Mod edit : Unless you can prove that claim with evidence please don't post it.

grip n rip

grip n rip wrote: »

<snip>monitoring should be no more than €150 + vat per annum , that seems the average .

and <snip>

Mod edit : Unless you can prove that claim with evidence please don't post it.

Just ring around , use top security in Cork , they charge €150 + vat per annum for domestic alarm monitoring

btkm8unsl0w5r4

So the Guards wont come out unless a key holder is present. The guards will black list the house with one false alarm. Monitoring companies just contact key-holders, they dont call out themselves. So what is the point in monitoring over a system that can SMS the keyholders in turn?

grip n rip

Charles Swift Tycoon wrote: »

So the Guards wont come out unless a key holder is present. The guards will black list the house with one false alarm. Monitoring companies just contact key-holders, they dont call out themselves. So what is the point in monitoring over a system that can SMS the keyholders in turn?

The monitoring station calls keyholders & gardaí , the gardaí send the premises owner a letter after 3 false alarms advising them to get alarm serviced & repaired . Its worth it in my opinion to have alarm monitored because these days most people ignore a ringing alarm , its a matter of opinion i guess .

KoolKid

Charles Swift Tycoon wrote: »

So what is the point in monitoring over a system that can SMS the keyholders in turn?

For me its Garda response in the event of a PA.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Press panic alarm or dial 999 what's the difference except maybe 2 seconds.

KoolKid

How do you do that if someone has a knife or a gun to you demanding you turn off the alarm ?

kub

Charles Swift Tycoon wrote: »

So the Guards wont come out unless a key holder is present. The guards will black list the house with one false alarm. Monitoring companies just contact key-holders, they dont call out themselves. So what is the point in monitoring over a system that can SMS the keyholders in turn?

Why throw up a comment like that especially when you do not know what you are talking about?

Sorry this is a security system which we are talking about, convenience and security are not exactly compatible especially in this circumstance. You miss a text from a buddy saying high, you notice it 20 mins later.......so what, now consider it if that was a text from your house alarm system after some low life has broken in.

KoolKid

Most people put family & 2 or 3 friends in for text alerts, right?
Before you decide who to use, randomly text all those people in the middle of the night & see how many reply.
After that, imagine you have your panic situation between 9pm and 12 on new years eve. Send your text and see what happens with it.:eek:

kub

And of course landline texting to the '3' network just does not work, who is to know if other mobile networks might decide to stop landlines texting on their networks?

YIPEE just noticed I have 2,000 posts..........haven't i a sad life?

grip n rip

kub wrote: »

And of course landline texting to the '3' network just does not work, who is to know if other mobile networks might decide to stop landlines texting on their networks?

YIPEE just noticed I have 2,000 posts..........haven't i a sad life?

Also smart telecom (landlines) don't support text .

KoolKid

grip n rip wrote: »

Also smart telecom (landlines) don't support text .

Are they still around??:rolleyes:

grip n rip

KoolKid wrote: »

Are they still around??:rolleyes:

Sadly yes in munster anyway , pain in the arse when you forget to ask customer who provides the landline

grip n rip

grip n rip wrote: »

Sadly yes in munster anyway , pain in the arse when you forget to ask customer who provides the landline

Although they recently changed their name

kub

grip n rip wrote: »

Sadly yes in munster anyway , pain in the arse when you forget to ask customer who provides the landline

And there is you with your 8/12.......sorry i couldn't resist

grip n rip

kub wrote: »

And there is you with your 8/12.......sorry i couldn't resist

Haha !! Last time it was a Quantum

altor

grip n rip wrote: »

Haha !! Last time it was a Quantum

At lease with the Quantum you have a choice of voice or text. Most systems are limited to text no matter of the service provider.

altor

Charles Swift Tycoon wrote: »

So the Guards wont come out unless a key holder is present. The guards will black list the house with one false alarm. Monitoring companies just contact key-holders, they dont call out themselves. So what is the point in monitoring over a system that can SMS the keyholders in turn?

To be black listed you need 3 false alarms that the Guards have attended.
My own take and view on monitored alarms is it is need for emergency response be that fire, emergency or a panic alert. A friend ringing the guards will not get you the same response as a monitoring station. The guards have more obligation to respond to a system installed that is monitored to todays standards than you ringing to say my alarm has activate. A monitored alarm will always receive a response. A self monitored alarm will not.

kub

altor wrote: »

To be black listed you need 3 false alarms that the Guards have attended.
My own take and view on monitored alarms is it is need for emergency response be that fire, emergency or a panic alert. A friend ringing the guards will not get you the same response as a monitoring station. The guards have more obligation to respond to a system installed that is monitored to todays standards than you ringing to say my alarm has activate. A monitored alarm will always receive a response. A self monitored alarm will not.

Although the term blacklisted is a bit strong, a letter from an installer to the area Superintendent will get Garda response back, either way for it to be lost in the first instance is the clients fault as they should be notifying their alarm company of any false alarms etc.

Those that think ringing the Gardai will get them a response just because they got a text to their phone are disillusioned.

There is a system in place between licensed installers, licensed monitoring stations, The Gardai and the end user. This system is recognised and works very effectively. It is probably why many of us installers are so bogged down in paperwork, but it gets the necessary response.

In my book, people who are serious about their home/work security have their systems professionally monitored. In my own opinion those that go for the text option wouldn't be bothered paying for monitoring either way even if the text option was not there.

PeteK*

grip n rip wrote: »

The monitoring station calls keyholders & gardaí , the gardaí send the premises owner a letter after 3 false alarms advising them to get alarm serviced & repaired . Its worth it in my opinion to have alarm monitored because these days most people ignore a ringing alarm , its a matter of opinion i guess .

We've had more than a few too many false alarms (mainly caused by my dad or someone else, not the system being faulty) and the guards have always arrived. They've never complained and we never got any letters.

Fire Brigade on one occasion, too!

I think PhoneWatch are great, but their prices are crazy when you see how cheap other companies are.

KoolKid wrote: »

Before you decide who to use, randomly text all those people in the middle of the night & see how many reply.
After that, imagine you have your panic situation between 9pm and 12 on new years eve. Send your text and see what happens with it.

That's when the Fire Brigade landed at my parent's house. (6am though)

altor

kub wrote: »

Although the term blacklisted is a bit strong, a letter from an installer to the area Superintendent will get Garda response back, either way for it to be lost in the first instance is the clients fault as they should be notifying their alarm company of any false alarms etc.

Those that think ringing the Gardai will get them a response just because they got a text to their phone are disillusioned.

There is a system in place between licensed installers, licensed monitoring stations, The Gardai and the end user. This system is recognised and works very effectively. It is probably why many of us installers are so bogged down in paperwork, but it gets the necessary response.

In my book, people who are serious about their home/work security have their systems professionally monitored. In my own opinion those that go for the text option wouldn't be bothered with monitoring if the text option was not there.

Self monitoring or your alarm is ok but if you want a response from a monitored point of view then you will need a monitored alarm. There are many people who think a self monitored alarm will serve as the same thing but as we know it is never the same thing. I know from installing many systems that peoples preference is for self monitored systems but the added advantage of having a system monitored by external monitoring will always be well worth the extra expense. I for one have a monitored system, some people may say its a waste of money but if I ever had to use an emergency service the response is there and would be worth more than money I can spend. A self monitored system will never be afforded the same response as a monitored system.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

kub wrote: »

Why throw up a comment like that especially when you do not know what you are talking about?

In order to stimulate debate, its seems to have worked well.

kub wrote: »

Sorry this is a security system which we are talking about, convenience and security are not exactly compatible especially in this circumstance. You miss a text from a buddy saying high, you notice it 20 mins later.......so what, now consider it if that was a text from your house alarm system after some low life has broken in.

These are the same people that would be keyholders and need to turn up before the guards will. I have had some lowlife break into my house while I was in it, my current monitored alarm did not effect the outcome.

kub

Charles Swift Tycoon wrote: »

In order to stimulate debate, its seems to have worked well.



These are the same people that would be keyholders and need to turn up before the guards will. I have had some lowlife break into my house while I was in it, my current monitored alarm did not effect the outcome.

Was your system switched on? Does your system have verification technology? Did your monitoring company text your key holders?
In general if you are looking for someone urgently do you ring them or text them?

Special Ops

anyone know what kind of security is attached to the pir camera images that get sent when tripped? privacy policy states they are held locally for a period of time before destroyed. but can they be hijacked on the way there. no too hot on a monitoring company having a eye into my home

fred funk }{

Special Ops wrote: »

anyone know what kind of security is attached to the pir camera images that get sent when tripped? privacy policy states they are held locally for a period of time before destroyed. but can they be hijacked on the way there. no too hot on a monitoring company having a eye into my home

Have a read around this forum about PW. Hijacking your images should be the least of your worries if you have one of their systems installed.

Nigelpenman

Just thought id add to this that phonewatch pir cams have a shutter over them they only open if the alarm is set off and 35 euro is pretty good imo as it covers parts for life and free callouts nd servicing, bellboxes are crap they are ignored and the gardai dont respond to them unless they no there is someone in the house

altor

Nigelpenman wrote: »

Just thought id add to this that phonewatch pir cams have a shutter over them they only open if the alarm is set off and 35 euro is pretty good imo as it covers parts for life and free callouts nd servicing, bellboxes are crap they are ignored and the gardai dont respond to them unless they no there is someone in the house

If you are paying €35 per month, can you please point out what is free?

Nigelpenman

If you want a good syst youll pay the money if you want a crap system you wont, you think people give a crap about a bellbox they dont they hide and wait for 10 mins and when no one comes they go in anyway, i am new to ireland so i dont know about phonewatchs past and tbh im aware its a new company now so i dont care either but spending 150 per year on a system that texts you if your house is getting broken into is great but still completely useless as by the time you get home they are gone, i have the new pack and its good 35 euro that covers monitored fire and house alarm with unlimited callouts plus repairs and battery replacements inc in that price beats having a crap alarm thats 150 a year plus 80 for a call out and 80 for every new part that needs to be replaced i understand 35 euro can be kind of steep but im happy to pay it when i live near a train track in limerick where break ins happen like rainy days

altor

Nigelpenman wrote: »

If you want a good syst youll pay the money if you want a crap system you wont, you think people give a crap about a bellbox they dont they hide and wait for 10 mins and when no one comes they go in anyway, i am new to ireland so i dont know about phonewatchs past and tbh im aware its a new company now so i dont care either but spending 150 per year on a system that texts you if your house is getting broken into is great but still completely useless as by the time you get home they are gone, i have the new pack and its good 35 euro that covers monitored fire and house alarm with unlimited callouts plus repairs and battery replacements inc in that price beats having a crap alarm thats 150 a year plus 80 for a call out and 80 for every new part that needs to be replaced i understand 35 euro can be kind of steep but im happy to pay it when i live near a train track in limerick where break ins happen like rainy days

So you don't get anything off them for free. Its good you acknowledge that.

How many call outs and repairs are you expecting with the system that you feel you need to pay for this extra cover? €35 a Month, €420 a year. That is on top of the alarm you have already bought. In 10 years that is €4200, You would get a good few alarm systems for that money.. Still sound like good value?
If you decide in a years time I don't want the system monitored, can you tell me what P.W. will charge you for a call out, plus replacement parts?
An outside bell is a must for any system, they are now set to turn off after a set time. Not like the older systems that will ring till the system is disarmed.
If you don't have the monitoring, do you think a outside bell would be a good idea to alert people of your alarm activating?
The system P.W. use uses a GPRS to contact the monitoring station. This device is not polled and a Jammer can easily block any signals getting out to them in the event of an alarm activation. Have they explained all this to you?
The pictures from the system are also delayed by 5 minutes to allow an end user turn off the system in the event of a false alarm. This is also the case for an intruder. Did they explain all this to you?
There system also uses PIR detection, meaning an intruder is already in your home before any alarm will activate.
If you have a system installed that texts you then you should not be paying any fees other than the cost of the call or text if the alarm activates. I don't know where you are pricing this from, perhaps you could give us more information about this?

KoolKid

@nigelpenman
You really should do your research before posting. I would also suggest you read more into PW T&C s if you think you are getting good value with service calls and replacement parts.
I agree central station monitoring is better than self monitoring, but you can get this benefit from any licenced installer not just PW.
Also a working bell on a system is more secure as it's harder to silence the system in quickly.
Another point is with PiRs your alarm is not going to activate untill an intruder has already gained entry. Most good systems are designed to detect them before they get in and the damage is done.
On the PiR cameras there is no way to know how accessible those images may be. But even on an alarm activation in the middle of the night do you want controllers looking at you or anyone in your family running around half dressed in a state of confusion.?
Likewise there are more secure methods of monitoring than GSM polling once a day etc.
If you want the best system you will pay for it and for the prices you are quoting you could get a much better system. Shop around and do some research. A little knowledge is a great thing.

alwald

KoolKid wrote: »

@nigelpenman
You really should do your research before posting. I would also suggest you read more into PW T&C s if you think you are getting good value with service calls and replacement parts.
I agree central station monitoring is better than self monitoring, but you can get this benefit from any licenced installer not just PW.
Also a working bell on a system is more secure as it's harder to silence the system in quickly.
Another point is with PiRs your alarm is not going to activate untill an intruder has already gained entry. Most good systems are designed to detect them before they get in and the damage is done.
On the PiR cameras there is no way to know how accessible those images may be. But even on an alarm activation in the middle of the night do you want controllers looking at you or anyone in your family running around half dressed in a state of confusion.?
Likewise there are more secure methods of monitoring than GSM polling once a day etc.
If you want the best system you will pay for it and for the prices you are quoting you could get a much better system. Shop around and do some research. A little knowledge is a great thing.

altor wrote: »

So you don't get anything off them for free. Its good you acknowledge that.

How many call outs and repairs are you expecting with the system that you feel you need to pay for this extra cover? €35 a Month, €420 a year. That is on top of the alarm you have already bought. In 10 years that is €4200, You would get a good few alarm systems for that money.. Still sound like good value?
If you decide in a years time I don't want the system monitored, can you tell me what P.W. will charge you for a call out, plus replacement parts?
An outside bell is a must for any system, they are now set to turn off after a set time. Not like the older systems that will ring till the system is disarmed.
If you don't have the monitoring, do you think a outside bell would be a good idea to alert people of your alarm activating?
The system P.W. use uses a GPRS to contact the monitoring station. This device is not polled and a Jammer can easily block any signals getting out to them in the event of an alarm activation. Have they explained all this to you?
The pictures from the system are also delayed by 5 minutes to allow an end user turn off the system in the event of a false alarm. This is also the case for an intruder. Did they explain all this to you?
There system also uses PIR detection, meaning an intruder is already in your home before any alarm will activate.
If you have a system installed that texts you then you should not be paying any fees other than the cost of the call or text if the alarm activates. I don't know where you are pricing this from, perhaps you could give us more information about this?

Fair enough, I've been looking for a decent wireless alarm system for a usual 3 bed semi detached, 2 doors (front and back) and 8 windows....I didn't make any phone calls I just looked at different websites, can you please point me to a good well known company that can provide me with a wireless monitored alarm system for more or less the same price as PW? thanks.

KoolKid

As I said, any licenced company can offer you this service. Shop around.
The main thing is to look at the bigger picture. While the initial install covering perimeter will be a little dearer,you will save on cheaper monitoring & have the benefit of better protection. Also look for a system with apps where you are not tied to the monitoring company or the manufacturer to connect to your alarm or have self monitoring.

lgk

alwald wrote: »

Fair enough, I've been looking for a decent wireless alarm system for a usual 3 bed semi detached, 2 doors (front and back) and 8 windows....I didn't make any phone calls I just looked at different websites, can you please point me to a good well known company that can provide me with a wireless monitored alarm system for more or less the same price as PW? thanks.

I'd be shocked if you can't get a better system for a lot ess money than PW!!

alwald

lgk wrote: »

I'd be shocked if you can't get a better system for a lot ess money than PW!!

Well I got another quote for a hybrid HKC system made of wired and wireless sensors, monitoring for 12 months, labor and parts for 24 months, all for 1200 quid, it sounds bit expensive to me, what do you all think?

KoolKid

With perimeter devices the initial system will be dearer but central station monitoring will be cheaper. Also be aware with HKC you will be tied to a subscription to them if you want self monitoring via IP and the use of their app.
You will also have to pay for every app you wish to download.
If you are looking for a system like this I would advise you also look at Siemens, Risco and GSD who all provide free IP connection via free apps with free notifications etc. Over the lifetime of any alarm system these apps and subscriptions will add up to a he'll of a lot.

lgk

On top of what KoolKid said, be sure you're comparing like with like. Make sure any system specified protects the areas you want protected. It's preferable to protect external doors/windows and have the alarm trigger as someone tries to break in rather than rely on internal motion sensors as PW seem to prefer which only trigger once the intruder is in the house.

Also make sure it's arranged in logical zones that you can arm as suits you. For example, in my system, I can have my shed armed all day unless I want to go out there, then at night I can have the downstairs and the shed armed. The wireless sensors can be expensive, and will push the initial price up, for factor in a few year's monitoring costs before making a decision.

kub

lgk wrote: »

On top of what KoolKid said, be sure you're comparing like with like. Make sure any system specified protects the areas you want protected. It's preferable to protect external doors/windows and have the alarm trigger as someone tries to break in rather than rely on internal motion sensors as PW seem to prefer which only trigger once the intruder is in the house.

Also make sure it's arranged in logical zones that you can arm as suits you. For example, in my system, I can have my shed armed all day unless I want to go out there, then at night I can have the downstairs and the shed armed. The wireless sensors can be expensive, and will push the initial price up, for factor in a few year's monitoring costs before making a decision.

Great explanation, just to add to that. The equipment which PW use is closed protocol. Meaning that once their system is installed you are stuck with them as no other monitoring station is compatible with the signals their equipment transmits.
It's a bit like buying a car that only one garage can work on, service and get parts for.

Johnny71

Hi,I'm trying to find out if it is possible to have my Phonewatch alarm programmed so I can monitor it myself instead of paying them35.00 p/m,any advice would be appreciated.

kub

Johnny71 wrote: »

Hi,I'm trying to find out if it is possible to have my Phonewatch alarm programmed so I can monitor it myself instead of paying them35.00 p/m,any advice would be appreciated.

How long is your system installed and is it one of those systems with the cameras?

altor

Johnny71 wrote: »

Hi,I'm trying to find out if it is possible to have my Phonewatch alarm programmed so I can monitor it myself instead of paying them35.00 p/m,any advice would be appreciated.

Do you know what system you have installed?

kub

altor wrote: »

Do you know what system you have installed?

Hi Altor, I am guessing it's one of the new ones ?

altor

kub wrote: »

Hi Altor, I am guessing it's one of the new ones ?

Sorry never noticed your reply kub.
Anyone got an engineer manual off this new system?

Johnny71

Hi,thanks for the replies,I have the alarm about 10 years ,not sure what model,I also had to have a gsm box installed as I'm using upc.

kub

Johnny71 wrote: »

Hi,thanks for the replies,I have the alarm about 10 years ,not sure what model,I also had to have a gsm box installed as I'm using upc.

Thanks OP, the good news is there Is hope for you.
Is either of the following labels on your panel or paperwork?
GE or Simon?

Johnny71

Hi, thanks for your reply,I have looked at the alarm and I can't see any sign of ge or Simon.

kub

Johnny71 wrote: »

Hi, thanks for your reply,I have looked at the alarm and I can't see any sign of ge or Simon.

Can you post up a picture of it?