€100 for Tethering!

cormie

I was away in Europe recently and was happily enjoying 100MB for 2.99 on Vodafone red, only to discover with my bill that I'd racked up about €100 in fees because I was "tethering" to my laptop. Now I know tethering can use a lot more data as the sites won't be mobile friendly etc, but the actual act of tethering itself is immediately charged differently and doesn't fit in to the 100MB allowance.

I'm using a Motorola XT890 razr i, how can Vodafone tell I'm tethering and how I can avoid this and just use the same method to use my 100mb allowance?

This is android, it must be possible!?!

Any feedback appreciated!

niallb

Vodafone's website FAQ: Can I use my phone for tethering with Vodafone RED? wrote:

If you are a Bill Pay customer, you can use your phone for tethering as part of the data bundle you have with your price plan. All customers are advised to download a data monitoring app so you can monitor your data usage.

That's not the impression I had got from the Vodafone website quoted above
and I'd be very annoyed to find those kind of charges on my bill.

I did find however, that there is a list of charges for "Connect Abroad" such as
€14.76 a day for 250MB total data, or
€55.35 a month for 1GB total data.
Additional data is charged at €1.23 per MB, which is probably what caught you.

I would have hoped the €2.99 a day would have covered me in the exact same way that you expected.

istaunton

cormie wrote: »

I'm using a Motorola XT890 razr i, how can Vodafone tell I'm tethering and how I can avoid this and just use the same method to use my 100mb allowance?

This is android, it must be possible!?!

Any feedback appreciated!

Some dvices use a seperate APN when tethering. It enables operators to exactly what you describe. I dont know if the Moto's do it but Apple devices definatly do.

cormie

Yeah it's very sneaky that they don't mention anywhere about the data not applying to tethering, other than in the T&C (#20 https://www.vodafone.ie/terms/services/#REDroaming - Data cannot be used for the purpose of Tethering.) which itself is incorrect as the data CAN and was used for the purpose of tethering so should that term not read "Data used for tethering will be charged at the rate of x".

The tethering does appear to show differently on the bill:

00:06 F live.vodafone.com Mobilcom
Vodafone live!
25.01 MB B

00:56 F hs.vodafone.ie Mobilcom 64.29MB €28.9015



So I wonder is it possible then to use live.vodafone.com for the tethering connection instead of hs.vodafone.ie?

cormie

Is there anything that could be done about this considering it's android? I would have thought you could customise pretty much anything with android, including what it connects to to tether?

wandererz

I've been burnt by Vodafone in the past with roaming data...to the tune of €700+ each time.

Essentially it seems that if you use the hs.vodafone.ie APN abroad (I guess HS=high speed) then it's an excuse to scr*w you.

This could be purely unintentional on the customers part as the intricacies of the use of this APN abroad is not made clear, even though it may be configured on your phone by default.

It's not necessarily related to tethering either.
It's a difference of using slow 2G or faster 3G/HSPA services.

When I travel to the UK for instance I now ensure I switch the APN to live.vodafone .
Then I use a data monitoring app on the phone to restrict data before the daily cap is reached.

I posted the question to Vodafone reps some years back and it was like pulling hens teeth to get a response. But eventually they admitted it was because of the APN used.

I guess welcome to the Vodafone mile high club, you've been done by them.

cormie

Thanks for that, yep, seems so!

Now the question is, this is android, so surely something can be done to change the APN to the live apn and just merrily tether with the same allowance as if I was just on my mobile?

MuppetCheck

wandererz wrote: »

I've been burnt by Vodafone in the past with roaming data...to the tune of €700+ each time.

Essentially it seems that if you use the hs.vodafone.ie APN abroad (I guess HS=high speed) then it's an excuse to scr*w you.

This could be purely unintentional on the customers part as the intricacies of the use of this APN abroad is not made clear, even though it may be configured on your phone by default.

It's not necessarily related to tethering either.
It's a difference of using slow 2G or faster 3G/HSPA services.

When I travel to the UK for instance I now ensure I switch the APN to live.vodafone .
Then I use a data monitoring app on the phone to restrict data before the daily cap is reached.

I posted the question to Vodafone reps some years back and it was like pulling hens teeth to get a response. But eventually they admitted it was because of the APN used.

I guess welcome to the Vodafone mile high club, you've been done by them.

When this happened me all it took was a call to customer care and have a credit added to my account to the value it should have been with the red roaming I had signed up to. No questions asked they admitted there was a problem and sorted it.

cormie

I got a completely different reaction when I was speaking to customer care, pretty much being told "it doesn't cover tethering and you tethered so that's where the costs are from.. I can put in a request for a review of a refund but it's up to the refund team"

cormie

I just got a text saying the VF Red terms have changed.

Changes to RED Roaming

Vodafone has made the following amendments to the terms and conditions of the RED Roaming add-on Service. These changes will be effective on the 30th of May 2014. You may opt in or out of the RED Roaming Service at any time without incurring any penalty. If you wish to opt out of the RED Roaming Service, you must text STOP RED to 50020, contact customer care or opt out online through My Vodafone. The changes are:

Vodafone has extended the term of the RED Roaming service. The service was due to finish on 31 May 2014. However the service is now available indefinitely. Vodafone reserves the right to withdraw the service at any time.
The calculation of the EU Regulated Data Roaming spend caps and notifications has changed. This will now be calculated as 33% of the highest possible RED Roaming daily rate, to a maximum of €2, (ex VAT) instead of as previously calculated at €1.08 ex VAT of each Roaming daily access fee.
The list of eligible countries where we provide the RED Roaming service will be found at www.vodafone.ie instead of in the terms and conditions.
In order to avail of the RED Roaming service a customer must roam on the Vodafone Network or on a Vodafone approved Network.
Customers who choose to purchase data roaming services from alternative roaming providers will be charged default EU pricing for any roaming calls or texts that they make on that operator’s network.
The RED Roaming daily access fee rates will now be found at www.vodafone.ie instead of in the terms and conditions.
The charge for using any additional data will be found at www.vodafone.ie instead of in the terms and conditions.
Vodafone may modify the features of the RED Roaming Service in order to offer additional value to the customer. Such positive changes might include increasing your data allowances. You agree that such changes to the Service or package do not constitute modification in the conditions of the contract for that Service or package, and the Customer confirms that it does not require individual contract change notifications regarding any such modification.
Customers can opt in or out of the RED Roaming add on service at any time online through MyVodafone, by contacting customer care or by texting STOP RED to 50020.

I'm not sure what that 33% and €2 cap means?

cormie

Rang vodafone business support on the above and the lady I was talking to couldn't understand the above either, she put me on hold and asked the manager, who also couldn't understand it so the manager is going to get in touch with head office to try make sense of it and then when they know they'll let me know.

Shows how confusing T&C's can be.

MuppetCheck

I wonder if this terms change could be grounds for getting out of contract like meteors one was a couple of years back?

kuro_man

its a total scam, it like selling you gas for house and saying you can only cook with it

fight it: complain, go to comreg, consumers etc. threaten them with small claims court

cormie

Unfortunately it wouldn't be worth it going to so much effort to get back €70, which is kind of helping them to keep on catching people out like that. I've also heard comreg aren't very proactive with such complaints either.

I have the fact that I'm just out of contract to my advantage and I'm sure it's been noted that I've spoken about moving to another provider so hopefully that will be taken into account.


But... more than 10 posts in and still no simple solution for the android system? I'm surprised... I'd understand if it was Apple and closed down, but I thought you could do anything with Android

srsly78

Vodafone are utterly clueless, especially when it comes to roaming. I got so much conflicting advice from them, both from telephone support and via email. In the end I complained to comreg about being mislead and ended up getting about 18 months free service as compensation (3 company phones x 6 months). I had specifically switched to vodafone to avail of UK roaming, only to find out the salesperson had lied to me.

Try to get everything in writing from them, as anything they say to you over the phone they will just deny later. Note that "calls may be recorded", but are never available if needed to backup any claims by the customer.

Your technical issue is not to do with tethering, but more to do with roaming I reckon.

28064212

cormie wrote: »

But... more than 10 posts in and still no simple solution for the android system? I'm surprised... I'd understand if it was Apple and closed down, but I thought you could do anything with Android

Any method that doesn't use the "Tethering & portable hotspot" from system settings e.g. PdaNet

srsly78

OP how do you know the fees were for tethering? Are you running a vodafone rom? I used to tether all the time on stock roms and saw no extra charge.

cormie

Thanks again for the replies folks, yes, the charges are for tethering while roaming. I'm on Vodafone red roaming which basically allows you 100mb per day, but that connects to vodafone live and then if you tether, it connects to hs.vodafone, so they can tell when you tether, which when you look at the T+C (and ONLY when you look at the T+C because it doesn't appear to be mentioned anywhere else), they say (#20 https://www.vodafone.ie/terms/services/#REDroaming - Data cannot be used for the purpose of Tethering.) which itself is incorrect as the data CAN and was used for the purpose of tethering so should that term not read "Data used for tethering will be charged at the rate of x".


And then they charged me the 70eur or so for the data, even though I was within my 100mb as tracked on my phone.


Thanks for the PDA app suggestion, how cnan I be sure that will solve the issue, again, I just don't want to be caught out

srsly78

The charge is not for tethering, it's for using the other APN!!! Other plans let you use that apn no problem.

My roaming problems were very similar, connecting to wrong apn and thus getting charged. Just delete the hs.vodafone apn and you might be sorted.

Panda_Turtle

Would something like TunnelBear be able to help with this in the future?

This allows you to pretend you are in a different country internet wise.

They will be providing an Irish Service soon...

https://www.tunnelbear.com/vote/

cormie

srsly78 wrote: »

The charge is not for tethering, it's for using the other APN!!! Other plans let you use that apn no problem.

My roaming problems were very similar, connecting to wrong apn and thus getting charged. Just delete the hs.vodafone apn and you might be sorted.

I'm a little confused by this, I think I know what you mean, I've never been charged for tethering in Ireland and have tethered quite a bit, so I guess the charge is for using the APN while abroad and that's causing the high charges? I'm just not sure how to tether with a different APN, because I need to use my laptop while abroad. Is it a simple case of changing it to the same live.vodafone apn or do I need to use the PDA app mentioned above maybe?

Panda_Turtle wrote: »

Would something like TunnelBear be able to help with this in the future?

This allows you to pretend you are in a different country internet wise.

They will be providing an Irish Service soon...

https://www.tunnelbear.com/vote/

Possibly, thanks for the suggestions.

Again, I just want to be sure I'm not going to get stung here as I don't want any surprises and to find myself in a position where I need to be online and won't have the time to sort something on the spot to stop me paying crazy money so would like to know I'm ok before I set off roaming again

wandererz

Experience tells me that tethering was not charged and use of the hs.vodafone.com APN is what incurred charges.

However, the T&C's from 30th April 2014 state otherwise:

http://www.vodafone.ie/terms/services/#REDroaming

15. The data available with RED Roaming is only allowed on the Live and Blackberry APNs. Data usage on any other APN will be charged our default per MB data roaming rate or according to your roaming plan for that specific APN.

19. Data cannot be used for the purpose of Tethering.


For what it's worth, for the UK & NI i now just use a 3 mifi modem. 3 allows you to use your credit in both countries.
I top up about €15 and get 1GB of data. No more worries.

srsly78

Just delete the hs apn details, then it will not default to it for whatever reason. You can add it again if needed.

Do this via settings -> mobile networks -> access point names.

cormie

Thanks again guys, I'll see if I can figure it out. Unfortunately I'd be driving all over Europe and could be connecting in 5 different countries a day if I'm doing a long drive. Most of my usage time wise is the need to have it online 24/7 wherever I roam, then most of the usage data wise is if I need to tether to the laptop, which thankfully isn't too much. Having an extra modem isn't an option for me but thanks for the suggestion

cormie

I went to the apn names in the mobile network settings and I can see hs there, live is selected but there doesn't seem to be a way to delete hs. I thought when I'd turn tethering on, it would switch to hs, but it stays at live. Maybe it switches to HS when roaming, but I can't test that now so I'm not sure what I can try next..

snaps

Eemm, I checked my vodafone settings here and I can add or delete the APN settings as I please in android 4.2. Now my phone is a unbranded dual sim and not a vodafone labled yoke.

srsly78

You may need to root the phone if vodafone are stopping you from deleting the apn.

DECEiFER

What phone is it? You might be able to flash a non-Vodafone (debranded) firmware or custom ROM to it instead of using their software as you wouldn't know what sort of means to track you they have in there. "Rooting" is not necessary in this case and it's a term that is used very loosely in terms of its meaning.

I'm on 3 and even if I had one of their handsets, there's no way I'd keep their software on it. I don't roam or tether often but I'd imagine they'd be tracking me if I did the latter at home or abroad, as the "All You Can Eat Data" excludes tethering. I use a Nexus 4 with Google's own stock firmware and I doubt they'd know if I tethered. I have previously tethered with my old phone (Samsung Galaxy S) with custom ROMs installed and never heard a peep from them.

cormie

Thanks for the reply. It's a Motorola XT890 Razr I. It's rooted and it's not vodafone branded, I got it off Ebay and had the Razr I stock rom installed to it with the help of https://www.facebook.com/TheAndroidClinic who is "partyatmygaff" on boards too

I've been meaning to get back on to him to ask him to help me bypass the issue, I just haven't had the time yet.

cormie

I got the next bill anyway and there were charges on that too, I'm just off the phone to CC again and this time they wiped the 2 months tethering charges after a quick chat with the manager so all good And I just got out of contract and entered a new 12 month contract for the same plan for €35pm instead of the €55 I'd been paying the last 24 months (actually I think it was €85 for about 12 of them 24 months).

Now I just need to sort out how to get android to not let vodafone be able to distinguish between tethering and not

srsly78

This was explained to you already. The charge isn't for tethering, it's for using the hs apn. Tethering just happens to use that one. Delete it and you are sorted.

Lots of people seem to have this issue, it's a new feature in android that lets the carrier set a certain APN as the preferred one for tethering. Root your phone, or install a vanilla rom.

cormie

Yeah, will get it sorted soon, thanks for the feedback

snaps

If you cant delete the hs apn can you just add the live apn? My phone was sim free and not vodafone branded and i could just add a new apn and set it as the default.

cormie

Ah jaysus, I had previously been trying to delete it looking for a menu button on the list of APN's and long pressing each APN but nothing, then yesterday I just tapped it and it brought up a new screen which I was then able to delete it from. I turned on the hotspot but didn't have time to tether with the laptop so not sure if any data was even used, will try next time I have a chance but I guess that's it sorted. The HS is now gone and I'm only left with mms and live.

BenEadir

Can I pick the tethering experts brains here please?

I'm off to France with the family for three weeks and want to use a PAYG SIM in an old phone to act as a Wifi hotspot for all the smartphones and tablets etc otherwise the roaming charges will bankrupt me!! Three UK have a "Feels like home" PAYG package with a months worth of all you can eat data in France for £15 which is amazing (just order the free SIM and have it sent to your PM address) but as with all great deals there is one tiny little catch which renders it potentially useless i.e. you cannot use it for tethering :-(

Is there any clever (Android) way to fool the network that the phone is not tethering when in fact it is tethering? I don't know what APN's the phone will create when I pop the new SIM into it and log onto the network on arrival in France. I'm competent enough with Android hacking and ROM flashing etc so I guess I could try deleting all APN's not being used when the phone is in normal data use mode but is that the only solution? Are there any apps/hack which guarantee that the phone won't report itself as tethering to the network I'll be roaming on (with my Three UK SIM) in France?

FYI here's a link to the offer from Three UK http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90699191&postcount=82

Ben