Foreigners - Do they need to integrate?

Oranage2

So my question is do foreigners need to integrate with the locals, learn the local language, adopt the local culture, traditions and customs etc?

In Ireland you see large communities of Asian, African and east Europeans who don't speak the language and usually just eat their own traditional food and socialize with their own kind.

Is this disrespectful of does it do no harm?

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

It's a free country, they can do what they like.

Elmo

It's important that they do both. It important that they can accept their new country as home and also be able to retain their own identity.

Potatoeman

Not integrating can cause issues as the community grows. The UK is having problems at the moment. You can't force integration though but things like having minimal education standards for entrants can improve the chances of it happening.

KingOfFairview

"Is it disrespectful that foreigners eat traditional food"?



No, it isn't.

bumper234

Oranage2 wrote: »

So my question is do foreigners need to integrate with the locals, learn the local language, adopt the local culture, traditions and customs etc?

In Ireland you see large communities of Asian, African and east Europeans who don't speak the language and usually just eat their own traditional food and socialize with their own kind.

Is this disrespectful of does it do no harm?

You have just described 98% of Irish people who go abroad.

I am pie

KingOfFairview wrote: »

"Is it disrespectful that foreigners eat traditional food"?



No, it isn't.

bacon and cabbage or out with them! thank the lord some people turned up with more interesting food. speaking english is advantageous and should be a citizenship requirement, after that let them at it.

Kiith

I've always thought that if someone wants to work here, than they should have basic English.

Other than that, eating food they know and hanging around with people from back home is pretty common for any culture living away from home. We do it everywhere we go.

Alf. A. Male

I want to intergrate with the women. Other than that, let them do what they like so long as it's legal.

dissed doc

Oranage2 wrote: »

So my question is do foreigners need to integrate with the locals, learn the local language, adopt the local culture, traditions and customs etc?

In Ireland you see large communities of Asian, African and east Europeans who don't speak the language and usually just eat their own traditional food and socialize with their own kind.

Is this disrespectful of does it do no harm?

Ireland doesn't have a particularly strong culture or identity that is accessible or deep enough to require integration. It can be as difficult for someone in Galway to integrate into Dublin; at then, in North Dublin inner city? In southside Dalkey integration? Or someone from Tullamore developing a Cork accent, etc., etc. .

Integration needs to be defined, and not about who your friends are or what you eat. By and large it means IMO having a standard of the language (e.g., B1 level minimum) and also a course on the political system and democracy and "citizenship" or something. After that, free to do what you want at an individual level but not organising movement or groups that disrupt already existing communities (e.g., attempting to ghettoise an area like in the UK and France).

FTA69

Oranage2 wrote: »

In Ireland you see large communities of Asian, African and east Europeans who usually just eat their own traditional food

They're right.

Irish food is sh*t.

Davarus Walrus

I'm hearing that some of the children in schools are at a disadvantage in schools from the very moment they start as they don't speak English at home. Educational disadvantage like that is a really bad start to give kids in life, and I'd fear for the consequences of letting it happen.

homemadecider

I think you're conflating "integrate" with "assimilate".

Lapin

I'm gonna get me some popcorn, kick back and watch this thread burn in a blaze of it's own crap.

Elmo

Lapin wrote: »

I'm gonna get me some popcorn, kick back and watch this thread burn in a blaze of it's own crap.

I may just stop following.

Outkast_IRE

Yes integration is very important, as an example look at the amount of Turkish Germany took in during the 70s/80s as workers and they put no effort into integrating them, now they are left with a significant population of whom some cant even speak German even though they were born there. They have their own little bars/restaurants and just don't mix, now a lot of them cant get work and its a big problem there.

The Turkish who have integrated are getting along fine for the most part. There is a real hate for those who haven't integrated though, it would be something like the way a lot of people here feel about a the travelling community.

MS.ing

they can do what they like as long as they dont try influence culture unless they are the majority here. they can **** right off with wearing burkas or whatever that full dress potential nutcase in disguise uniform is called.

KingOfFairview

MS.ing wrote: »

they can do what they like as long as they dont try influence culture unless they are the majority here. they can **** right off with wearing burkas or whatever that full dress potential nutcase in disguise uniform is called.

This post is full of coherent win.

Philo Beddoe

They should integrate into the community and learn the language, but for their own benefit, not because it's disrespectful to ours not to do so. I have no problem with the Somali couple downstairs not speaking much English, but I think it would benefit them to learn. Their kids do speak English, however. It's a situation repeated all over the world, first generation immigrants usually find it more difficult to integrate than their children.

Karl Stein

homemadecider wrote: »

assimilate

Something we tried to do with Travellers and made an almighty balls of.

MrWard

Karl Stein wrote: »

Something we tried to do with Travellers and made an almighty balls of.

It seems that we are not doing too well at integration either.

MORE THAN HALF of Ireland’s new citizens believe their new status has not lead to greater integration.The survey by the Immigrant Council of Ireland together with academics of UCD found that 86 per cent of our new citizens have completed third level education while over 80 per cent are working.

Edit: Cant link to the full piece.

KingOfFairview

Does OP have an anecdote about a family of blacks living 20 to a room keeping him up all night long playing bongo drums next door? Cause the OP seems like the sort of person who has an anecdote about a family of blacks living 20 to a room keeping him up all night long playing bongo drums next door.

eisenberg1

Philo Beddoe wrote: »

They should integrate into the community and learn the language, but for their own benefit, not because it's disrespectful to ours not to do so. I have no problem with the Somali couple downstairs not speaking much English, but I think it would benefit them to learn. Their kids do speak English, however. It's a situation repeated all over the world, first generation immigrants usually find it more difficult to integrate than their children.

You gotta learn the lingo, and especially English ( which will stand to you wherever you go) and where better to learn it than the way what we do speak it here:D

FTA69

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

I'm hearing that some of the children in schools are at a disadvantage in schools from the very moment they start as they don't speak English at home. Educational disadvantage like that is a really bad start to give kids in life, and I'd fear for the consequences of letting it happen.

Yet the highest performing pupils in the UK are Nigerians and Chinese.

MrWard

FTA69 wrote: »

Yet the highest performing pupils in the UK are Nigerians and Chinese.

Citation needed.

Seaneh

bumper234 wrote: »

You have just described 98% of Irish people who go abroad.

The vast majority of Irish emigrants move to one of 5 English speaking countries.

MS.ing

Seaneh wrote: »

The vast majority of Irish emergents move to one of 5 English speaking countries.

where are they emerging from?

Boom__Boom

Seaneh wrote: »

The vast majority of Irish emigrants move to one of 5 English speaking countries.

emergents ????

:pac::pac::pac:

MrWard

MS.ing wrote: »

where are they emerging from?

In the last five years it's the U.K., Australia, Canada, America, New Zealand. In that order. All English speaking, I do believe.

FTA69

MrWard wrote: »

Citation needed.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/mar/22/white-british-children-outperformed-by-minorities

Boom__Boom

MS.ing wrote: »

where are they emerging from?

Emerging from the womb of Mother Ireland to spread around the world.

mrsbyrne

In my experience the visitors who don't learn English make life very difficult for themselves and putvthemselve and their kids at a terrible disadvantage when trying to access services, healthcare education social welfare etc. I've seen some terrible life threatening calamities due to language difference.
Incidentally among the Eastern Europeans the women are far quicker then the men to learn a bit of English.

Seaneh

MS.ing wrote: »

where are they emerging from?

Yore ma.

jiminho

I don't mind them not socialising with us and I don't mind them not eating the same food we do. It's a free country and we can't dictate what they eat and drink etc etc

The one thing that would bother me tho is the language. I know there's free movement in the EU but i think after 5 years, an emigrant should be pretty competent in that country's language. For their sake more than ours. Also, the vast majority of Irish emigrants go to english speaking countries and anyone I know who goes to say Germany or France makes a genuine attempt to learn the language if there even there for only a short time.

What I don't like tho is that the majority of emigrants we get into this country are lower class people. I'll await the onslaught now from everyone but the vast majority i see are people who work as cleaners or at the petrol station. I just wish we had a visa system like Canada. I mean we're losing educated graduates to another country and we're replacing them with, well, uneducated people. Anyway, this could turn out to be an unpopular

FTA69

jiminho wrote: »

I don't mind them not socialising with us and I don't mind them not eating the same food we do. It's a free country and we can't dictate what they eat and drink etc etc

The one thing that would bother me tho is the language. I know there's free movement in the EU but i think after 5 years, an emigrant should be pretty competent in that country's language. For their sake more than ours. Also, the vast majority of Irish emigrants go to english speaking countries and anyone I know who goes to say Germany or France makes a genuine attempt to learn the language if there even there for only a short time.

What I don't like tho is that the majority of emigrants we get into this country are lower class people. I'll await the onslaught now from everyone but the vast majority i see are people who work as cleaners or at the petrol station. I just wish we had a visa system like Canada. I mean we're losing educated graduates to another country and we're replacing them with, well, uneducated people. Anyway, this could turn out to be an unpopular

Many migrants are highly educated in their own countries but their qualifications aren't valid over here or heir language skills aren't the best. I know many Latin American teachers and physiotherapists etc over here who work as cleaners because it's the only job available to them.

Micky Dolenz

Seaneh wrote: »

The vast majority of Irish emigrants move to one of 5 English speaking countries.

that's interesting. Where did you get that from?

MrWard

FTA69 wrote: »

theguardian

It doesn't link to the actual report and when I went snooping it seems that the actual ippr report has been removed. It is worth noting that the IPPR was right in there at the beginning of Labour’s open door immigration strategy. They are a Nu-Labour think tank.

An unbiased source, if you please. Contrary to the report, 5 Cs in the GSCE is not above average.

pcardin

jiminho wrote: »

What I don't like tho is that the majority of emigrants we get into this country are lower class people. I'll await the onslaught now from everyone but the vast majority i see are people who work as cleaners or at the petrol station. I just wish we had a visa system like Canada. I mean we're losing educated graduates to another country and we're replacing them with, well, uneducated people. Anyway, this could turn out to be an unpopular

lol. Loads of people you see working in petrol stations and as cleaners are actually well educated and had good positions at home but when arrived here found out it was for them 6 times as hard to achieve the same level here that home, that they had to start from begining again. The ones that are strong do eventually get where they were before comming here but most don't. Especially when they do get classified here as lower/lesser people. Like in example, Eastern European term does circulate quite snobish around Ireland and is being used very often nearly like a course word or something. :pac:

FTA69

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

that's interesting. Where did you get that from?

Is he wrong?

Micky Dolenz

FTA69 wrote: »

Is he wrong?

I don't know. That's why I was asking.

I have moved between different countries for work in the recent past and none were English speaking, meeting a tonne of Irish doing the same rounds. So was interested to know is there some official figures floating around.

LuckyLloyd

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

that's interesting. Where did you get that from?

Well, statistics to the contrary would be mind blowing!!?

Media999

70% of my College Course is now foreign. Software Development.

Most might as well be Irish apart from the language.

Only problem with them i see is its fairly obvious most are here for the social welfare. I hang around with a few. Really good mates and they will have no problem in saying that. They know the system like the back of their hand.

Micky Dolenz

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well, statistics to the contrary would be mind blowing!!?

To a mind easily blown . Lot of Irish gone to Asia and the middle east on long term work contracts.

cerastes

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I don't know. That's why I was asking.

I have moved between different countries for work in the recent past and none were English speaking, meeting a tonne of Irish doing the same rounds. So was interested to know is there some official figures floating around.

Is that why you asked? so you could bring this up?

Its very easily obvious that most Irish people that emigrate, go to the UK, Canada, US, Australia and NZ, its pretty widely known.

FTA69

Well you've around a million Irish people in the UK and about 200,000 in the USA alone. He vast majority of people heading away do so to the traditional destinations.

aaabbbb

FTA69 wrote: »

Many migrants are highly educated in their own countries but their qualifications aren't valid over here or heir language skills aren't the best. I know many Latin American teachers and physiotherapists etc over here who work as cleaners because it's the only job available to them.

Youre right ! Girl in my local Super Valu has a Phd from Poland , her English(while grand for working stocking shelves) is just too poor a level at the moment to allow her to work in a university here.

Micky Dolenz

cerastes wrote: »

Is that why you asked? so you could bring this up?

Its very easily obvious that most Irish people that emigrate, go to the UK, Canada, US, Australia and NZ, its pretty widely known.

Bring what up? Questioning is there official figures on emigration from the state?

LuckyLloyd

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

To a mind easily blown . Lot of Irish gone to Asia and the middle east on long term work contracts.

'Lots'. This is a silly argument to further really, I'd imagine there are CSO stats somewhere on the issue that demonstrate a solid majority of Irish emigrants head to:

UK
Australia
Canada
USA
New Zealand

Micky Dolenz

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

'Lots'. This is a silly argument to further really, I'd imagine there are CSO stats somewhere on the issue that demonstrate a solid majority of Irish emigrants head to:

UK
Australia
Canada
USA
New Zealand

Ok, but stats you don't have but are guessing. Nearly as bad as my lots.

It's quite simply, are there official emigration stats or not?

LuckyLloyd

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Ok, but stats you don't have but are guessing. Nearly as bad as my lots.

It's quite simply, are there official emigration stats or not?

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2013/#.U1qSxe29Kc0

Micky Dolenz

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2013/#.U1qSxe29Kc0

Those figures are interesting reading. Pity EU and Rest of the World aren't broken down a bit more.

Although it seems a large amount stay in Europe.