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Run run run run run run run....
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Hey lads, butt away
Hi Outside, I see HR was simple a good feedback parameter for training and that's all, I wouldn't even consider pacing a race based on HR feedback because as Narcooo pointed out, there's the cardiac drift element so for me it's all about listening to your internal feedback and pace it on effort.
I didn't actual decide on the marathon HR of 160, it's simply based on my last marathon effort and assuming it's not going to be far off for the next one as my max HR will likely not have shifted. The purpose of monitoring the HR last week was to get a good idea if that pace is a realistic target for Frankfurt and I was pleasantly surprised to see it looks about right. I would fully expect it to start drifting however around 20 miles so when you factor that in the overall average should be about 160.
Also a great point by ecoli Myles on the other variables such as muscle efficiency and oxygen uptake which collectively determine your overall performance meaning HR should never be viewed in isolation when comparing 1 or more individuals.
I don't pay much attention to the recommended % ranges or zones, over time I've figured out based on trial and error what my own ideal HR zones are based on feel, e.g recovery for me is always 118-124 bpm, that feels right and I generally feel fresh for the next session but you know that might be completely different for somebody with the same max/resting HR as me.
I agree with you though, it's very nice to see the your pace gradually increasing as HR remains the same, a tangible sign of improvement so in that sense it's a very useful parameter to monitor and can even serve as a mental motivator to know your training is working. I find also taking the resting HR daily can be useful for detecting early signs of overtraining or illness (even 5 beats above your typical resting HR can be a warning sign).
Thanks very much Jebuz, ya that all makes sense. I can see now alright how pacing off HR could be such a bad idea, too many outside factors also affecting HR. I'll try noting resting hr for a while and see how that goes. Some days can feel pretty wiped so it'd be good to confim that with a high resting HR for a few days.
Hopefully I'll be at Charleville too so might see ya there.
Good luck with training!0 -
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Sunday 06/09 - 23 miles @ 6:50 m/m
This was a great run and looking back at it this morning I really have come to appreciate my journey over the last few years considering this was the pace of my first marathon in Dublin almost 3 years ago. Met up at 8am with with a nice big group on a stunningly beautiful morning down at Blackrock castle. We set off on a loop towards Rochestown along the coast with the sunshine glistening on the surface of the sea, effort was nice and relaxed over the first few miles as we worked down to 6:50 pace. We got back to base at 11 miles and the group was down to 4 of us, all training for different marathons so we decided to do the same loop again and add an extra mile since the lads were planning on 23. My plan was just 20 but I was enjoying the run, legs felt good so I went off with them again for the second loop. The effort picked up at times down to 6:30's but still felt really good and overall this run has really assured me that the training is working well and I'm well on track for Frankfurt.
Edit: how could I forget to mention the toblerone cheesecake the night beforehand. It's back in the good books
Weekly milage: 74
Milage a little higher than anticipated this week as I was planning on pulling it right back but after the first few easy days early in the week I started feeling good again so just went with it. This week I'm hoping to sneak a 5k race in on Thursday but with the milage still high I have no huge expectations, but some expectations :pac:0 -
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alright time to get the finger out on the race report before I completely suppress it forever...
Thursday 10/09 - St. Lukes Home 5k race (1st, 16:12) @ 5:13 m/m (9+ miles)
I picked this race out a few weeks earlier as a potential target. Nice flat course, good timing on a Thursday (instead of a tempo) and the thoughts of a sub 16 5k are always lingering, threatening and pestering. On the morning of the race, the coach told me not to kill myself, I'd run 23 miles on the Sunday and 19 Tuesday so despite a day off before it, the legs were always going to be somewhat tired. This kind of took some of the pressure off for me so I was just going to go out and give it a good hard effort with no expectations of a sub 16.
Got down to the marina after work, familiar stomping ground of my 20+ milers every Sunday. I registered before heading off with our own viperlogic for a 20 minute warm up. We were running the route in reverse and the head wind was pretty severe, it wasn't filling me with huge positivity and the body just felt very tired. Still I just reminded myself that this is not a goal race and good substitute for a session so on we trudged up to the start line with minutes to spare.
I looked around on the start and didn't really spot any runners I knew had the capability of going sub 16, I was kind of hoping I could find someone to work with. Even more surprising when you consider first prize was a week holiday in Europe.
Mile 1 - 5:15
So eventually the race started as most races do. A large gaggle of greyhounds shot out as usual, probably 20+ ahead of me but within half a mile it was probably down to about 7 or 8. I was moving comfortably and slowly gaining ground on the group. We had to make a very sudden and quite dangerous turn onto the marina walkway but I was lucky there wasn't too many people around me. Onto the familiar walkway and I looked ahead to see 4 maybe 5 ahead of me. It was around now I told myself I could win this if I played it right. As we ticked onto the first mile I was feeling good, didn't even glance down at the watch as I didn't want to even know about my time. To be fair the watch might as well have been in the car today because I didn't look at it until I'd crossed the line and was more than happy to just run the race by effort, much more enjoyable than the last 5k in that sense.
Mile 2 - 5:22
I was probably sitting in 4th or 5th now but without increasing the effort I was gradually moving my way up the field as some of the eager runners were starting to tire. We headed quickly up and down the pedestrian bridge flyover which was the only real hill of note. Coming off the bridge I felt the pace naturally increasing and made my way into 2nd place. Ahead of me in 1st, maybe 10-15 yards was a M40 runner, Roy, didn't know him at the time but a well established local runner who once won the Cork marathon in 2:30 under my own coach. I noticed how I was gaining on him slowly and my effort was still nice and steady. The wind was not on our side for this mile but I knew the final mile would be a lot quicker with the wind behind us. My plan was to stay patient, level with him by the end of this mile and then put in the effort to try take the win. We started to turn and I felt the wind now behind my back, much better. I drew level and matched his effort for a while before I decided it was time to go and try win this thing.
Mile 3 - 5:07 (+ 0:28 for 0.1 mile)
I had no idea what pace I was running or what sort of time I was on for but this was completely at the back of my mind. I focussed on the cyclist ahead as I pushed on and started opening up a gap on Roy. He wasn't going anywhere quickly, I could hear the footsteps chasing me down, I needed to work harder. I was able to force it a little more though really starting to hurt now. I could see the corner ahead of me for what felt like miles, I knew once I rounded the corner I was only 400 meters from home so that was the target. Little did I know that Roy had been passed by a Polish guy and he was stealthy because I had no idea how close he was, I heard no footsteps now. I knew I was close now, I was praying for the finish but sustaining a good effort and was confident I had the win. I turned the corner for home and saw the finish gantry, I found another gear and pushed hard all the way to the finish. To my surprise the Polish guy was only 5 seconds behind me without me even knowing he was there so in that sense I'm lucky I kept the effort going until the finish. I checked my watch to see a 16:13 which I was actually delighted with considering this was more of a tactical effort. Official result was a 1 second PB which I think is good going in the heavy period of a marathon cycle.
Always nice to pick up a decent prize but I was happier with the effort and this has given me a good boost going into Charleville next week. In terms of actual effort, this didn't feel as hard as the last 2 5k's so I think the sub 16 is there for me soon, maybe not this year but I think with some focussed sessions I am almost there.
Met our own skeleton_boy (Steve) afterwards who has just moved down to Cork. He ran a savage 16:45 and came 5th, so much potential and only 24 so I've already recruited him and he'll be coming down to Leevale (we just need to sort out his marathon sandbagging). Steve was heading to do some MP (6:40 m/m) miles after the race so I joined him as we ran the route again and the legs felt really good. Overall definitely merited the trip down to the marina and also I'll be holding a competition to determine who comes on the holiday - PM 100 words or less "Why I should go on the holiday with jebuz"
Friday 11/09 - 55 mins @ 7:30 m/m
Early run before work. Felt surprisingly good for this despite the race last night. Enjoyed it while thinking about a variety of things.
Saturday 12/09 - 65 mins @ 7:27 m/m
Was at a wedding all day Friday and didn't get to bed until 4am. Still, like clockwork I woke early and made my way down to the farm for 9:30. I was a very delicate flower and almost made a rookie mistake joining a session. A clubmate made me see sense so I just jogged (slogged) it around the pitches for an hour or so before heading home to bed.
Sunday 13/09 - 15 miles @ 6:57 m/m
Horrible wet and windy morning but didn't stop a large group of idiotic runners meeting up at 8am for a long run. Just 15 miles on the plan today because of Charleville next week so it almost felt lazy compared to previous weeks. This one just flew by, conditions were terrible but it's always so much easier in a group and time seems to just go quicker. Effort was fine, legs felt good so no complaints. Somehow managed to pause my watch for about a mile (I swear) so thats why it reads short.0 -
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I knew you'd try squeeze a time out of me. I think a low 73 wouldn't be out of my scope right now, thats roughly 10 sec/mile quicker than last year so if I have a good day that's what I'd be looking at. What about you? I'm thinking about sitting in and annoying you for the whole thing.
Damn it, I was planning on doing the same to you. Low 73 would be good going for me. Would have been hoping for faster a few weeks ago but not as confident now. I was hoping you were going tell me that the course was ridiculously fast well even faster than it is. 0 -
TRR_the_turd wrote: »Damn it, I was planning on doing the same to you. Low 73 would be good going for me. Would have been hoping for faster a few weeks ago but not as confident now. I was hoping you were going tell me that the course was ridiculously fast well even faster than it is.
It can be ridiculously fast, if you run ridiculously fast
That's a well achievable target for you, I'm sure there'll be a group of us around that pace so it'll make things a lot easier.0 -
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ultrapercy wrote: »From following both logs I think both you and TRR are well capable of stringing together 13 5.30s, it's a matter of committing to it from the start and hanging on. HM is very different to 10k where the speed required can really catch you out, HM is more of a grind. My pb is 70.40 and I have a handful of sub 71and they didn't feel anymore difficult really than my 72-73 min ones just that I set my stall out early to really go for it. It's a good course from what I hear and a great time of year so the opportunity to run a fast time is there if your willing to gamble your respectable time for a fast time. Best of luck to you both anyway, you are in great shape I'm sure both results will reflect that.
Thanks UP but for feck sake! We are trying to do some serious sandbagging here and you are messing up our attempts!
Agree that you need to get into your running early on and set your stall out but back in Bohermeen last March I went for a sub 73 when it really wasn't there on the day, kept pushing when I should have backed off. Was a horrible last 3 miles. Will be a little more conservative this weekend for the first 10k.0 -
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Cheers Steve, great you enjoyed the track last night and glad to hear you'll be back. Get a good rest in after Eindhoven and then come back to the club, you'll find a group to settle in with pretty quickly.
Ok I'm just about done for Charleville now, time to get the legs up and not think about the race.
Wednesday 16/09 - 60 mins @ 8:13 m/m
Winding it down now for Sunday so the plan was 60 very easy minutes. Turned off all data on the watch and took in a nice relaxed loop of the city. Legs felt tired at times but nothing new there.
Thursday 17/09 - 20 min tempo @ ~5:30 m/m (9+ miles)
I'm not a big fan of these sessions before a target race, no mater what happens you always seem to come away thinking how the fork am I going to run that pace for X minutes. Anyway, it wasn't quite as bad as that, in fact probably better than expected. Jumped in with a couple of club mates who are tapering for Berlin as the rest of the club went running hills - lucky escape. The garmin pace is always dodgy on the track but averaged 5:33 for the 20 minutes and the effort felt hard as expected but manageable. Could I have kept going for longer? sure. Could I have kept going for 50+ more minutes? Let's find out Sunday.
Friday 18/09 - 40 mins @ 8:01 m/m
Words cannot describe how little I have to say about this run.
Now it's all up to TRR to drag me around Charleville, no pressure 0 -
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