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Is packaged ham REALLY that bad?

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭dor843088


    New thread are fridges really that bad ?


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 5,620 ✭✭✭El_Dangeroso


    dor843088 wrote: »
    New thread are fridges really that bad ?

    They are worse than hitler.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭jane82


    Sure its presses and cupboards you wanna watch out for.
    In every kitchen food cupboard there is a whole tub of salt.
    A whole tub.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭dor843088


    jane82 wrote: »
    Sure its presses and cupboards you wanna watch out for.
    In every kitchen food cupboard there is a whole tub of salt.
    A whole tub.

    I just hope it's a bpa free tub .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,667 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    I once heard of a press that had salt and sugar in it.

    I didn't ask if a full inventory showed a tub of lard as well because I was in shock.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 817 ✭✭✭Ann Landers


    Fridges came with their own set of problems however, the bacteria that purportedly causes crohns disease grows very well at fridge temps. So crohns was very rare prior to the advent of refrigeration.

    Which is bacteria is that? AFAIK, there is still a lot of uncertainty about what causes Crohn's. I'm not sure refrigeration has anything to do with Crohn's. There might be a correlation and, well, we all know the rest.

    We know that Crohn's is very much a first world illness, especially prevalent in industrialised areas. There are different theories about why this is. Helminthic therapy is something being mooted, the lack of worms may unbalance the microbiological profile of the gut. Autoimmunity, genetic factors etc.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 5,620 ✭✭✭El_Dangeroso


    Which is bacteria is that? AFAIK, there is still a lot of uncertainty about what causes Crohn's. I'm not sure refrigeration has anything to do with Crohn's. There might be a correlation and, well, we all know the rest.

    We know that Crohn's is very much a first world illness, especially prevalent in industrialised areas. There are different theories about why this is. Helminthic therapy is something being mooted, the lack of worms may unbalance the microbiological profile of the gut. Autoimmunity, genetic factors etc.

    There is a lot of uncertainty, hence 'purportedly'. It's a new hypothesis, but probably the most compelling one:

    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/4849.php

    also:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19177167

    But since we're not all getting it, I don't doubt genetic predisposition and/or underlying dysbiosis of some sort also plays a role.

    It's a fecker of a disease either way. Looking forward to more research on stem-cell therapy, that seems to be getting amazing rates of remission in early trials.

    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/804570


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭metamorphosis


    Some of the claims in this thread will probably lower your life expectancy that eating actual ham ...

    Anyway, like most things ... a bit here and there won't do harm.

    Personally, not a massive ham fan, gimme out the beef instead


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 817 ✭✭✭Ann Landers


    There is a lot of uncertainty, hence 'purportedly'.

    This just threw me:
    So crohns was very rare prior to the advent of refrigeration.

    For me, personally, I'd be leaning towards the dysbiosis idea.

    The psychrophilic bacteria mentioned can be eliminated by keeping the fridge closer to zero than 4 degrees, though that can't always be monitored as many foods go into the freeze at much higher than 4 degrees which affect the fridge temp for a while, as can opening and closing the door often.


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  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 5,620 ✭✭✭El_Dangeroso


    For me, personally, I'd be leaning towards the dysbiosis idea.

    Yep, it's complex that's for sure, but the evidence for refrigeration is pretty strong, independent of other factors which would definitely contribute.


  • Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Would people consider good quality rashers (97%+ pork) to be as bad as packaged ham? If so I'm bollocksed... and I think I'd rather die a few years younger than give up having eggs and rashers for breakfast.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 817 ✭✭✭Ann Landers


    gvn wrote: »
    Would people consider good quality rashers (97%+ pork) to be as bad as packaged ham? If so I'm bollocksed... and I think I'd rather die a few years younger than give up having eggs and rashers for breakfast.

    No, rashers would be better for you. Less processed.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 5,620 ✭✭✭El_Dangeroso


    gvn wrote: »
    Would people consider good quality rashers (97%+ pork) to be as bad as packaged ham? If so I'm bollocksed... and I think I'd rather die a few years younger than give up having eggs and rashers for breakfast.

    Drink a glass of orange juice with it, the antioxidants help counteract the AGEs in the bacon, red wine will also work, but I don't think you want to be drinking wine for breakfast.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭Orla K


    Drink a glass of orange juice with it, the antioxidants help counteract the AGEs in the bacon, red wine will also work, but I don't think you want to be drinking wine for breakfast.

    Woo! I would so drink red wine for breakfast! (maybe lunch and dinner too)


  • Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Drink a glass of orange juice with it, the antioxidants help counteract the AGEs in the bacon, red wine will also work, but I don't think you want to be drinking wine for breakfast.

    Let's not rule that out.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 817 ✭✭✭Ann Landers


    Orla K wrote: »
    Woo! I would so drink red wine for breakfast! (maybe lunch and dinner too)

    I wouldn't because it'd make me want to spend the rest of the day snoozing. :pac: I know in some countries people will have beer with breakfast or lunch and it's normal, with no harm done. I just couldn't do it though, booze makes me so sleepy. When I feel sleepy at night from booze, it feels more normal because it's a time I'd be getting sleepy anyway!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,667 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    The recipe for success sounds like rashers and wine for breakfast followed by a trip to the gym to do some shrugs to make it extra French.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭norwegianwood


    I've studied this a bit in college, and while it's probably not going to have a detrimental effect in moderate doses, it's not going to do wonders for your health either. Processed ham, depending on the quality, will be pumped with varying amounts of preservatives like salt, sugar, nitrates/nitrites and ascorbic acid, probably stuff your body can do without. Under certain conditions, the presence of nitrites can lead to nitrosamine formation which have been shown to be carcinogenic. But then, unless you're eating 20 packets of ham a day there's probably nothing to worry about, I wish packet ham was the worst thing about my diet.:pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    Processed ham, depending on the quality, will be pumped with varying amounts of preservatives like salt, sugar, nitrates/nitrites and ascorbic acid, probably stuff your body can do without.

    :rolleyes:

    The belief that nitrates and nitrates cause serious health problems has been entrenched in popular consciousness and media. Watch this video clip to see Steven Colbert explain how the coming bacon shortage will prolong our lives thanks to reduced nitrates in our diets.

    In fact, the study that originally connected nitrates with cancer risk and caused the scare in the first place has since been discredited after being subjected to a peer review. There have been major reviews of the scientific literature that found no link between nitrates or nitrites and human cancers, or even evidence to suggest that they may be carcinogenic. Further, recent research suggests that nitrates and nitrites may not only be harmless, they may be beneficial, especially for immunity and heart health.


    http://chriskresser.com/the-nitrate-and-nitrite-myth-another-reason-not-to-fear-bacon


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    Amazingfun wrote: »

    Hardly someone who is a world renowned nutrionalist


    My name is Chris Kresser, and I'm a licensed acupuncturist and practitioner of integrative medicine


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    mickman wrote: »
    Hardly someone who is a world renowned nutrionalist


    My name is Chris Kresser, and I'm a licensed acupuncturist and practitioner of integrative medicine

    :rolleyes:

    If you disagree with him, as your tone suggests, any chance you could argue with the actual evidence he presents instead of attacking him?

    **evidence can be found in the links/notes in blue embedded throughout the article ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭dor843088




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    If you disagree with him, as your tone suggests, any chance you could argue with the actual evidence he presents instead of attacking him?

    **evidence can be found in the links/notes in blue embedded throughout the article ;)

    Its highly irresponsible for this chap to be going around saying nitrates are good for you


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    mickman wrote: »
    Its highly irresponsible for this chap to be going around saying nitrates are good for you

    Ummmm: why is that?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    Ummmm: why is that?

    as he is not qualified to do so


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭norwegianwood


    Never said they caused cancer, just that your body doesn't need them, no need for the passive aggression. But then, who am I to question the word of chriskresser.com.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    mickman wrote: »
    as he is not qualified to do so

    Says who? You? lol.

    And why didn't you deal with the evidence he presented, as requested?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    Never said they caused cancer, just that your body doesn't need them, no need for the passive aggression. But then, who am I to question the word of chriskresser.com.

    But it's not "Chris Kesser's word", is it? Look at the studies he presented to buoy his argument. And by the way this was all discussed in the early pages of this thread, hence my *eyeroll* when the "nitrates are bad" stuff started up again.

    **You know we have nitrates in our saliva?
    When it comes to food, vegetables are the primary source of nitrites. On average, about 93% of nitrites we get from food come from vegetables. It may shock you to learn that one serving of arugula, two servings of butter lettuce, and four servings of celery or beets all have more nitrite than 467 hot dogs. (2) And your own saliva has more nitrites than all of them! So before you eliminate cured meats from your diet, you might want to address your celery intake. And try not to swallow so frequently.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 5,620 ✭✭✭El_Dangeroso


    Nitrates are a red herring when it comes to cured meats. It's most likely Advanced Glycation Endproducts (AGEs) that cause an issue if anything.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    I'd be more worried about the white bread and cheese than the ham but that's just me!

    bingo.
    why have ham when you can have egg. or tuna.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    Says who? You? lol.

    And why didn't you deal with the evidence he presented, as requested?

    Do you bow down to CHris Kesser every evening before bedtime ?

    Eat your packaged ham like a good lad


  • Registered Users Posts: 750 ✭✭✭Ashbx


    There is a programme on Channel 4 (I don't want to name it incase its not allowed!) that ring the likes of Denny support and ask them questions about the product. So one particular one he did was about processed meat. Its a very informative programme and if you are genuinely interested in this, you should give it watch.

    The only one I did watch was actually about processed ham and he questioned everything they put on the label. Not sure if all of them are the same but the main issue with these hams is that, yes its all from the same part of the animal (like the leg) but the one slice of ham you have, could have 10 different pigs legs in it! Whereas, you buy a joint of ham in a butcher and that is obviously all from one animal. The other thing was the "glue" that they used...this is the nasty part. If a mod can confirm I can name the programme, I will but defo suggest you should give it a watch and you may think twice about processed ham going forward.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    Ashbx wrote: »
    There is a programme on Channel 4 (I don't want to name it incase its not allowed!) that ring the likes of Denny support and ask them questions about the product. So one particular one he did was about processed meat. Its a very informative programme and if you are genuinely interested in this, you should give it watch.

    The only one I did watch was actually about processed ham and he questioned everything they put on the label. Not sure if all of them are the same but the main issue with these hams is that, yes its all from the same part of the animal (like the leg) but the one slice of ham you have, could have 10 different sheeps legs in it! Whereas, you buy a joint of ham in a butcher and that is obviously all from one animal. The other thing was the "glue" that they used...this is the nasty part. If a mod can confirm I can name the programme, I will but defo suggest you should give it a watch and you may think twice about processed ham going forward.

    That is just gross! meat from different animals


  • Subscribers Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭conzy


    Ashbx wrote: »
    There is a programme on Channel 4 (I don't want to name it incase its not allowed!) that ring the likes of Denny support and ask them questions about the product. So one particular one he did was about processed meat. Its a very informative programme and if you are genuinely interested in this, you should give it watch.

    The only one I did watch was actually about processed ham and he questioned everything they put on the label. Not sure if all of them are the same but the main issue with these hams is that, yes its all from the same part of the animal (like the leg) but the one slice of ham you have, could have 10 different sheeps legs in it! Whereas, you buy a joint of ham in a butcher and that is obviously all from one animal. The other thing was the "glue" that they used...this is the nasty part. If a mod can confirm I can name the programme, I will but defo suggest you should give it a watch and you may think twice about processed ham going forward.

    I will stop eating packaged ham if there is sheep in it alright


  • Registered Users Posts: 750 ✭✭✭Ashbx


    conzy wrote: »
    I will stop eating packaged ham if there is sheep in it alright

    I cant believe I actually wrote that! That should read pig! :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 750 ✭✭✭Ashbx


    conzy wrote: »
    I will stop eating packaged ham if there is sheep in it alright

    Well with all this horse meat etc, you just never know, could be a bit of sheep in there too :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    Ashbx wrote: »
    Well with all this horse meat etc, you just never know, could be a bit of sheep in there too :)

    this is the problem. with meat in packets, we just dont know what is in it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,207 ✭✭✭maximoose


    Why could you not name the program? Sounds like Dispatches.


  • Registered Users Posts: 750 ✭✭✭Ashbx


    maximoose wrote: »
    Why could you not name the program? Sounds like Dispatches.

    Because I never know what can be mentioned and what cant be! Its called Food Unwrapped! http://www.channel4.com/programmes/food-unwrapped


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,667 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    conzy wrote: »
    I will stop eating packaged ham if there is sheep in it alright


    Mutton dressed as ham, wha'!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭norwegianwood


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    But it's not "Chris Kesser's word", is it? Look at the studies he presented to buoy his argument. And by the way this was all discussed in the early pages of this thread, hence my *eyeroll* when the "nitrates are bad" stuff started up again.

    **You know we have nitrates in our saliva?

    Yeah I read the earlier stuff, hence why I didn't harp on about nitrates and just mentioned them in passing. I never said they were necessarily bad, just that we don't need to take them in our diet, which is true of many additives. I was more talking about nitrosamines, which may or may not cause cancer and are derived from nitrites. Also, I've spent the past three years studying nutrition at university and have yet to hear one of my lecturers tell us nitrates are something we should include in out diet, and I think I'll take their word over some guy on a website.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,877 ✭✭✭purplecow1977


    Ashbx wrote: »
    There is a programme on Channel 4 (I don't want to name it incase its not allowed!) that ring the likes of Denny support and ask them questions about the product. So one particular one he did was about processed meat. Its a very informative programme and if you are genuinely interested in this, you should give it watch.

    The only one I did watch was actually about processed ham and he questioned everything they put on the label. Not sure if all of them are the same but the main issue with these hams is that, yes its all from the same part of the animal (like the leg) but the one slice of ham you have, could have 10 different pigs legs in it! Whereas, you buy a joint of ham in a butcher and that is obviously all from one animal. The other thing was the "glue" that they used...this is the nasty part. If a mod can confirm I can name the programme, I will but defo suggest you should give it a watch and you may think twice about processed ham going forward.


    Any food that has been processed in any way always has a risk of having something 'foreign' ending up in the product, accidentally or otherwise.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2095359/Hairdresser-bites-Tesco-sandwich-chews-dirty-false-FINGERNAIL.html

    http://www.joe.ie/dumb-it-down/what-can-you-find-in-irish-food-dead-rodents-and-insects-if-youre-really-unlucky/


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭dor843088



    Yeah ill stick to the organic veg some farmer has spread cow sh1te all over and not bothered to wash it off so it looks more organic .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    dor843088 wrote: »
    Yeah ill stick to the organic veg some farmer has spread cow sh1te all over and not bothered to wash it off so it looks more organic .

    What a ridiculous comment


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭dor843088


    mickman wrote: »
    Do you bow down to CHris Kesser every evening before bedtime ?

    Eat your packaged ham like a good lad

    More rediculous than this one?
    Mickman is afraid of ham
    She gave him a sandwich so he divorced his mam.
    He tried to chill and took a blue pill
    But silly mickman ended up ill.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,512 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    dor843088 wrote: »
    Yeah ill stick to the organic veg some farmer has spread cow sh1te all over and not bothered to wash it off so it looks more organic .

    Cows dont wander into the veg fields :/

    The term organic is not very well regulated though, it can vary from not spraying a crop X weeks before harvest to never using anything extra at all. I'd rather eat foods that have been treated to remove disease myself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    Cows dont wander into the veg fields :/

    The term organic is not very well regulated though, it can vary from not spraying a crop X weeks before harvest to never using anything extra at all. I'd rather eat foods that have been treated to remove disease myself.

    The key is to "know your farmer"


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭dor843088


    Id rather just eat foods that I enjoy and exercise a degree of common sense instead of spending 99% of my time worrying about the stuff that will make 1% of difference. Eat your greens and take it easy on the junk and stay active. Job done.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    dor843088 wrote: »
    Id rather just eat foods that I enjoy and exercise a degree of common sense instead of spending 99% of my time worrying about the stuff that will make 1% of difference. Eat your greens and take it easy on the junk and stay active. Job done.

    True


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