A thread I've wanted to make for a very long time....Medugorje

Pherekydes

"What's up with her boobs?"

"That's paddin'."

endacl

Goin' really fast on yer pushbike? That's a peddlin'

sbsquarepants

These places really depress me and as far as I'm concerned show up the absolute stupidity of the religious mindset.
Lets put it this way, say you have somehow fallen on hard times and your family is starving, to make matters worse your kid has some easily treatable disease but you cant afford the money to feed them never mind medicine. One day you find a magic lamp and the genie says I can do anything, never mind 3 wishes I could give you 3 billion wishes if I wanted.
Great you say, heal the kid and sort out a bit of dinner would you my auld flower. Eh no, says the genie - I'd rather make that statue cry. But you could easily do both you plead, yeah I could, but I don't want to, oh look, says the genie a woman is being raped and murdered, i'll have a watch of this. What, aren't you going to help? Nah, don't want to.
Would you think he was the soundest most loving genie the world has ever known, or would you say what a prick? I know what I'd say - why do they say different? I just can't understand it?

Bellatori

sbsquarepants wrote: »

...Would you think he was the soundest most loving genie the world has ever known, or would you say what a prick? I know what I'd say - why do they say different? I just can't understand it?

This is the problem of evil... It was first raised some 2500 years ago by Epicurus to whom the following is often (possibly wrongly) attributed

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

I have a lot of time for Epicurus. He makes a lot of sense. He was not actually an atheist. He believed there were Gods but he just felt they were irrelevant to mankind!

Here are a couple of other quotes that I particularly like

“Of all the means to insure happiness throughout the whole life, by far the most important is the acquisition of friends.”

“do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not”

and the one that really defines my atheism and the reason I think we should concentrate on this life and not be gulled into seeking an afterlife

“I was not, I was, I am not, I care not. (Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo)”

sbsquarepants

Bellatori wrote: »

This is the problem of evil... It was first raised some 2500 years ago by Epicurus to whom the following is often (possibly wrongly) attributed

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” )”

One of my all time favourite quotes, and sums it up perfectly for me. Even if there is a god - he's quite clearly an asshole.

Bellatori wrote: »

“do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not” )”

Easier said than done, Epicurus. Unfortunately.

Bellatori wrote: »

and the one that really defines my atheism and the reason I think we should concentrate on this life and not be gulled into seeking an afterlife

“I was not, I was, I am not, I care not. (Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo)”

Very good. I like it! I'm going to ponder this one a while !

pauldla

From what I’ve read, I get the impression that the Romans had a fairly relaxed attitude to religions in general. In addition to the ‘official’ gods, the pantheon so to speak, there were a multitude of other local and lesser deities being associated with families, trades etc. I suppose that would make for an easy attitude towards other beliefs, and maybe even contributed to the success of their empire: You have gods too! That’s great. They’re not as good as our gods, of course, though we wouldn’t want to upset them at the same time. Sure, pray all you want to, you’re grand, just don’t frighten the horses, and keep that tax money a-comin’.

Bellatori

sbsquarepants wrote: »

O...Very good. I like it! I'm going to ponder this one a while !

It is really a summary of what he wrote about death in a letter to Menoeceus.

“Accustom yourself to the belief that death is of no concern to us, since all good and evil lie in sensation and sensation ends with death. Therefore the true belief that death is nothing to us makes a mortal life happy, not by adding to it an infinite time, but by taking away the desire for immortality. For there is no reason why the man who is thoroughly assured that there is nothing to fear in death should find anything to fear in life. So, too, he is foolish who says that he fears death, not because it will be painful when it comes, but because the anticipation of it is painful; for that which is no burden when it is present gives pain to no purpose when it is anticipated. Death, the most dreaded of evils, is therefore of no concern to us; for while we exist death is not present, and when death is present we no longer exist. It is therefore nothing either to the living or to the dead since it is not present to the living, and the dead no longer are.”

I really believe this to be true and therefore I live as though today is important. Why waste a life wishing for it to end so that you can get to heaven. That, to me, seems like a classic exercise in futility.

robindch

pauldla wrote: »

From what I’ve read, I get the impression that the Romans had a fairly relaxed attitude to religions in general.

Yes, in general, they didn't really mind what people did with their local gods so long as due respect was paid to the Roman deities too. The jews in ancient Palestine disagreed though - worship of another deity was a serious sin and set the scene for two thousands years, and counting, of religious geopolitical conflict.

sbsquarepants

I Like your outlook Bellatori - It's very similar to my own.
Reminds me of the Mark Twain quote “I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."
We've already been dead for the best part of 14 billion years, it didn't hurt one little bit - the next 14 billion won't either.:D

kylith

pauldla wrote: »

From what I’ve read, I get the impression that the Romans had a fairly relaxed attitude to religions in general. In addition to the ‘official’ gods, the pantheon so to speak, there were a multitude of other local and lesser deities being associated with families, trades etc. I suppose that would make for an easy attitude towards other beliefs, and maybe even contributed to the success of their empire: You have gods too! That’s great. They’re not as good as our gods, of course, though we wouldn’t want to upset them at the same time. Sure, pray all you want to, you’re grand, just don’t frighten the horses, and keep that tax money a-comin’.

I saw a documentary a while ago which touched on how Romans dealt with their gods. They didn’t so much worship them as bargain with them. It was much less “Oh, please wonderful gods without whom I am naught, make my business successful” and much more “You like altars, don’t you? Make me successful and I’ll build you one. No success, no altar.”

robindch wrote: »

Yes, in general, they didn't really mind what people did with their local gods so long as due respect was paid to the Roman deities too. The jews in ancient Palestine disagreed though - worship of another deity was a serious sin and set the scene for two thousands years, and counting, of religious geopolitical conflict.

From what I’ve heard that’s what caused all the hassle with Christians in Rome too. The Romans didn’t give a damn that the Christians had their own god, they didn’t even mind the Christians saying that their god was the best, it was saying that their god was the only real one that pissed them off.

Bellatori

kylith wrote: »

it was saying that their god was the only real one that pissed them off.

That's what does it for me. Why is their un-evidenced god better than any other un-evidenced deity?

kylith

Bellatori wrote: »

That's what does it for me. Why is their un-evidenced god better than any other un-evidenced deity?

I asked that it that thread in AH and was told 'because Jesus said so', which as an answer is exactly the same as saying 'Daz is the best washing powder because a Daz spokesman says so'. Then I was accused of lying and misrepresentation.

I can't be the only one who'd wish that godbotherers would outline exactly what it is they do believe since, apparently, they don't believe most of what the bible says they should.