Estate agent mind games?

IrishAlice

Myself and my OH just recently started house hunting and are already dubious about one of the estate agents we have been dealing with.

We went to view a house last week and were told that a bid of 5k below asking price was put on the house and that the owners weren't willing to budge on the price.

So we discussed it and booked another viewing for yesterday (which was subsequently cancelled) with a view to offering asking price on the house on the condition that we don't get involved in a bidding war.

We thought this would be quite reasonable because the house is on the market nearly a year and they've already dropped the asking price 10k.

Then yesterday morning ahead of the 2nd viewing the estate agent called to tell us that someone bid the asking price and that if we wanted the house we'd have to go higher.

Am I being too cynical because the timing of all of this seems too convenient!

miss choc

Latest update after all the 2k,3k increments other bidder have come back with a jump of 7k they are either a. getting pi**ed off and want to blow our bid out of the water or b. this is their last chance final bid. Lets hope its the latter. Bidding wars are so unnerving.

the_syco

miss choc wrote: »

Latest update after all the 2k,3k increments other bidder have come back with a jump of 7k they are either a. getting pi**ed off and want to blow our bid out of the water or b. this is their last chance final bid. Lets hope its the latter. Bidding wars are so unnerving.

How much is the current bid above your original bid?

miss choc

€7k it started at increments of 3k's and 2ks' now it's this jump

miss choc

sorry our original bid 295 now it's at 312

limnam

After the 7k jump I would advise the EA you're very keen on another property and withdraw the previous offer.

Advise the EA that if there's a quick turn around to get in touch and be prepared to move on.

You're just going to get reeled in and pay over the odds in most probably a bidding war with your own wallet.

miss choc

We have decided we are gonna go to our final bid and then walk away. If we go up in a small increment it will stall it but they could come back and place our final offer bid at least if we put this offer on now we will now where we stand the EA will come back and they have either backed out cos of our big jump OR they will go over our final bid which we will know then that it was gonna go over. It is always tempting to go a bit over being that the we are still below the original house value but to be honest I cant see it going too high as there is only us and them and the bidding only started when we did :rolleyes: Will hate to leave it if outbid but have to be strong.
Would like some advice before put final bid on when should I ring EA? EA rang yesterday, should I ring tomorrow with bid? then I will probably get a call on Friday (or EA might wait till after bank hol) or should I wait to put the bid on Friday morning and see what happens after w/end? I've a feeling whatever I do I will either be happy or sad for the w/end I know I sound pessimistic but don't want to get hopes up.

limnam

miss choc wrote: »

We have decided we are gonna go to our final bid and then walk away. If we go up in a small increment it will stall it but they could come back and place our final offer bid at least if we put this offer on now we will now where we stand the EA will come back and they have either backed out cos of our big jump OR they will go over our final bid which we will know then that it was gonna go over. It is always tempting to go a bit over being that the we are still below the original house value but to be honest I cant see it going too high as there is only us and them and the bidding only started when we did :rolleyes: Will hate to leave it if outbid but have to be strong.
Would like some advice before put final bid on when should I ring EA? EA rang yesterday, should I ring tomorrow with bid? then I will probably get a call on Friday (or EA might wait till after bank hol) or should I wait to put the bid on Friday morning and see what happens after w/end? I've a feeling whatever I do I will either be happy or sad for the w/end I know I sound pessimistic but don't want to get hopes up.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90062386&postcount=18

miss choc

Never would think of trying that strategy OH doesn't know if it's a good idea to confirm it's our final offer to EA as they are just dealing with other bidder and trying to get the highest offer, but if I leave it live for the 5 days that is leaving it over the bank holiday w/end so would get an answer back on Tues if successful. It's an executor sale so sellers could be sitting on it for a while or wanting a quick sale hard to know I would prefer the latter as we would be in a quicker position to close as we don't have to sell. Still torn about weather to ring EA tomorrow or Friday. Going to view another one on Sat keep the options open :rolleyes:

Bigcheeze

telling them it's your final offer is of no value to you in a competitive bid. If anything it could benefit the other bidder.

These threads are always full of people who've never bought more than a packet of crisps and telling posters to walk away or tell the EA your next move is to drop your bid. Easy to say with someone else's life.

miss choc

Yeah it's all swings and roundabouts if I say it's our final offer as a cash buyer the sellers may be keen for a quick sale however they could be in no rush and will wait for the offer to go higher as I would if I was the seller.
I think I will go in with this last bid and clarify that we are cash buyers and mention no final offer. Just don't know weather to ring them tomorrow or Friday would prefer Friday but got a feeling they will be ringing me tomorrow (if I dont ring them by at least afternoon) we have been putting in a bid waiting two days whilst the other bidder has been doing the same two day rule.

miss choc

Just looked at my first post put in first offer 10th April whole bidding war is taking 3 wks :mad: with a few bank hols thrown in.

eclectichoney

At the end of the day, it is unlikely that any strategy will work in getting you a property for less than a competing party is willing to pay. That's the single biggest factor imo.

limnam

eclectichoney wrote: »

At the end of the day, it is unlikely that any strategy will work in getting you a property for less than a competing party is willing to pay. That's the single biggest factor imo.

hence it makes sense to make the bid and walk away. if it's good enough you're getting the house if not you save yourself a load of time and avoid getting emotional with other bidders etc it's win win

miss choc

Yeah even the EA doesnt know can only wait and see, just bugs me it was on the market for two weeks and not a peep as soon as we put a bid on they come out of the woodwork :rolleyes:

limnam

miss choc wrote: »

Yeah even the EA doesnt know can only wait and see, just bugs me it was on the market for two weeks and not a peep as soon as we put a bid on they come out of the woodwork :rolleyes:

no one came out of the woodwork.

You're not playing hard, the EA has identified that and is going to play you.

put the bid in and move on to the next house.

miss choc

Yeah I know Limnan whats meant to be will be if only there were a surge of property the demand is mad at the moment so the ideal family house in a decent enough area can be hard to come by, not looking for a mad posh area or a 4/5 bed just a run of the mill house that unfortunately everyone wants at the mo. Unless you have a ton of excess cash or can restore a doer upper yourself it's hard. Oh to have a tradesperson in the family

miss choc

It wasn't that we played hard to be honest we saw it 3 times and thought long and hard about the house. After one week we waited to see if there were any bids none, then we wanted to weigh up the pos/neg as we had been looking at another house too that week. I also wanted to check the house the 3rd time with a parent who would be living with us.
Then our budget and check finances it took a while I have bought before and I never want to rush in on one of the most important decisions that you make during your life.
Anyway it's now or never

Hockney

limnam wrote: »

put your bid to them advise them it's your final bid and is live for 5 days and for them only to get back to you if it's accepted.

Then move on.

This is just a load of big talk. Saying the above might make you feel like you're the one in control, but it has the opposite effect.

Giving the EA (and hence other bidders) any info which you don't need to give them is a nonsense strategy. Letting the EA know how high you can go weakens your position instead of strengthening it.

OP if you're going to make your final bid then by all means go and make it, but for the love of God don't go telling the EA its your upper limit.

Let the money do the big talking.

limnam

Hockney wrote: »

This is just a load of big talk. Saying the above might make you feel like you're the one in control, but it has the opposite effect.

Giving the EA (and hence other bidders) any info which you don't need to give them is a nonsense strategy. Letting the EA know how high you can go weakens your position instead of strengthening it.

OP if you're going to make your final bid then by all means go and make it, but for the love of God don't go telling the EA its your upper limit.

It gives no indication of what your budget it is or what you CAN go to. It puts a stop to anymore nonsense from the EA. You'll either get to a bid the owner will accept and avoid any "fake" counter bidding. Or you get to move on to the next house.

There is no indications there is other bidders here. you will often see a house on the market for sometimes over 24 months. Bid goes in. Now there;s a battle. Really? on a house that couldn't be moved for two years?

No one mentioned limits. Knowing the limit is only an advantage for the EA to get you there. If they think you're not going to make any more bids. What difference does it make what that limit is anyway? as you won't be going any further.

EA's are mostly using very similar strategy's advising to put the house on the market at a lowish price. get someone in. bring them in with small paper cut bids. then as you have them hit them with one or two larger bids near the end and they've gotten back to the original price.

If you're going for a 3 bed room semi in a certain area you don't need to tell the EA what your limit is. They all ready know.

You haven't bought many homes or sold many it seems.

Hockney

limnam wrote: »

You'll either get to a bid the owner will accept and avoid any "fake" counter bidding. Or you get to move on to the next house.

There is no indications there is other bidders here.

Your two outcomes here are based on the assumption that the other bidder is fake.

Let's say OP's final bid is €320k, and that she takes your advice. She goes to the EA telling them this is her final bid, and not to bother contacting them again unless it's accepted as you've suggested.

Now the EA goes straight back to the other genuine bidder, tells them the OP is at her limit.

The other bidder goes €322k, seller accepts, EA doesn't bother even ringing the OP, and the next thing she hears about it is that it's gone Sale Agreed at €2k above her final bid. Personally I would prefer to be at least given the option to bid further on it.

Also, if the OP never mentioned her bid being final, the other bidder could never have had that knowledge, and would be less likely to bid further, especially if they were close to their limit themselves.

Your point on a common EA's strategy (paper cuts to big raises) is an interesting one.

The bid history on this house would seem to follow it, but I think most genuine bid histories would be similar too: bidders feel each other out for a while, one comes over the top with a big raise, possibly countered with another big raise.

Is there anything about this particular bid history points you to believing there are no other bidders?

limnam

Hockney wrote: »

Your two outcomes here are based on the assumption that the other bidder is fake.

Let's say OP's final bid is €320k, and that she takes your advice. She goes to the EA telling them this is her final bid, and not to bother contacting them again unless it's accepted as you've suggested.

Now the EA goes straight back to the other genuine bidder, tells them the OP is at her limit.

Why would an EA advise another bidder they're at their limit? If they feel they can get a few more out of the other one? they can just "fake" bid again. EA's generally only tell the owner what's happening and not other bidders. The whole maybe I can get it for just another 2k is what sellers and EA's thrive off. Get in their and put the bid down that you think the house is worth and is likely to engadge the owner to sell and move on. You will waste too much time with the EA get too emotionally involved with the house and the "bidders" and end up paying over the odds regardless.

Have plenty of houses in your options and you can afford to walk away and won't find it as hard.

Hockney wrote: »

Your point on a common EA's strategy (paper cuts to big raises) is an interesting one.

The bid history on this house would seem to follow it, but I think most genuine bid histories would be similar too: bidders feel each other out for a while, one comes over the top with a big raise, possibly countered with another big raise.

Is there anything about this particular bid history points you to believing there are no other bidders?

To be honest it doesn't really matter. If it's the EA fake bidding a real bidder or the owner playing hard ball.

I still go with the same strategy as the result is the same regardless.

You either put something to the owner he feels he can accept or you move on. Regardless of what's been said on the radio and the papers bar some minority areas in Dublin and Cork it's a buyers market and more people need to put more thought into what their doing here.

This is not billy big balls strategy it's just not a barry bent over one.

keeponhurling

acer911 wrote: »

Ok so look at it this way, say the estate agent charges a 2.5% commission on a house. Value of the house is €350,000. Thus if they sold the house they would get €8,750. If you initial bid was at this level and as you are saying it increased by 3k, then 2k, then 2k then after a week the price is at €357,000 – commission €8,925. An extra €175 for the estate agent for all that extra work, pushing out the time-frame and all the while running the risk of losing you as a bidder for the house and having no fall back – thus no commission as the “ghost” bidder isn't buying the house.

Is that always how EAs are paid by the seller, i.e. an agreed % of the selling price?

Not sure if there would be any fixed fees? What if the house just didn't sell for years for whatever reason?

Daithi_2014

Interested to hear the outcome of this one.

Ice87

Recently bought a home and have been involved in two bidding wars prior to the purchase of this one. One common theme with both estate agents I dealt with was that they don't want a drawn out process.

In both circumstances I was a little concerned that there may have been a ghost bidder but on both occasions I was wrong and it was just bad luck that we came up against other bidders who were prepared to pay more. Happy now though.

As far as telling an EA it's your last bid this is something I wouldn't do. The other bidder may just increase their bid by 1k and take the house. If the other bidder believes you may bid again, they might stop bidding. A bid is only a bid though and there's nothing stopping you from pulling out.

My advice is value your bid on what you think the house is worth and bide your time. You might just be unlucky that someone else wants to purchase the same property. Best of luck

miss choc

:(:(:(:( Got outbid so upset was balling eyes out there few hours ago but have to cop on it's just really worrying that houses are going for the asking price and beyond well over which we can afford.
There is too many people and not enough houses another one I looked at last Sat has asking price within one day of looking :eek: I am so tempted to up the bid but sure where do you stop. It's annoying cos it's still 25k below asking and I think they are getting the bargain if they have the money. It's right beside me and I pass it every day felt like it slipped through our hands but sure thats the name of the game I know it's only a house but our place is so tiny feel I'm trapped and need a bigger house. Just cant believe market is going crazy again

Hillybilly4

Chin up - am sure you'll find an even better house now...best of luck and have fun looking.

0028673

miss choc wrote: »

:(:(:(:( Got outbid so upset was balling eyes out there few hours ago but have to cop on it's just really worrying that houses are going for the asking price and beyond well over which we can afford.
There is too many people and not enough houses another one I looked at last Sat has asking price within one day of looking :eek: I am so tempted to up the bid but sure where do you stop. It's annoying cos it's still 25k below asking and I think they are getting the bargain if they have the money. It's right beside me and I pass it every day felt like it slipped through our hands but sure thats the name of the game I know it's only a house but our place is so tiny feel I'm trapped and need a bigger house. Just cant believe market is going crazy again

Feel bad for you. I'm sure it hurts right now. It's a tough process but I'm sure the next one will work out.

miss choc

Have fun looking :rolleyes: I wish! have been looking the last year it is so physically and mentally tiring the viewing, the sorting out finances, the bidding etc. We were a month bidding on this one I personally still think we could go another 5k but where do you stop? I don't want to be ruling with my heart I will have a chat with hubby tonight as he is the logical one. There is feic all houses in our price range round our areas at the moment. Hate the thought of being here for another 6 mths. I told the EA we would get back to him let them stew for a bit. So frustrating :mad: What's meant to be I guess it's like your so close and it's taken away We are cash buyers but cos it's executive sale I'd say sellers are in no rush and just sitting on it to get the highest bid.

Daithi_2014

You stop when either you cant afford the price anymore, or you think the price is too high for the house you are bidding on.