Estate agent mind games?

miss choc

I rang about a house last Wed that we like and was told (not by negotiator) there were no offers (house on market 3 weeks) we put a low offer in that Thurs and low and behold the EA rang back last Mon evening with another bidder? offering 3k more I said I would get back to them. They rang yesterday and I said I had to discuss it and would get back to them on Thursday (my error I should not have been definate about day) anyway they EA rang again at 10.10 this morning I let it go to voicemail as my husband is saying we should wait until Tues (after Easter) let them stew so to speak. I am getting a whiff of deparation of the EA to move this along quick but we don't want to be rushed and get into a crazy bidding war like the old days where rationale goes out the window. I keep thinking it may be a ghost bidder that EA are making up as there were none for 3 wks or maybe they just rang everyone who viewed it after our offer and someone saw bid so low and put a bid on. What move do you think we should do we are going to put a bid on as we are still in budget do you think I should put it on today or wait till Tues

Barely There

'Ghost Bids' are an urban legend. The EA would rather sell the house today at the price you offered than drag it on for a few weeks to get an extra few k's for the vendors. At the % the EA gets, it's just not worth the hassle.

If you want the house and believe it is worth an increased bid, then do so.

No Pants

Barely There wrote: »

'Ghost Bids' are an urban legend.

Really?

BryanF

is there an estate agent legislation/ code of practice re of 'ghost bids'?

Bigcheeze

The reason there's another bid is that your bid forced other people who are interested to either sh1t or get off the pot.

When I was selling my last house I had the EA telling me lots of people were interested but had no bids in the first month. Finally someone bid and I had three bids within 48 hours. Sale agreed a week later.

Barely There

No Pants wrote: »

Really?

Yes.

The Megaphone

Barely There wrote: »

'Ghost Bids' are an urban legend.

You are either an EA or the son/daughter of an EA

miss choc

Deciding gonna let them wait for my bid on Tuesday nothing will be doing over Easter anyway. They will be closing at 5.00 in all fairness I couldnt see the seller wanting to close today. The EA I think is just being pushy they rang me yesterday after I said I would get back I told them I would ring them again and they rang again today at 10am it's like back off :mad: am trying to sort out stuff and I dont want to put a bid on until I am ready they can hold out now till Tuesday. Many's a time a bid would be put on and an EA can leave you hanging for days so they can wait now.

MouseTail

I don't understand your strategy, you said you would decide by Thursday, and now you are ignoring calls til Tuesday. If I were the EA or vendor, I would conclude you were no longer interested and proceed on that basis. I doubt the EA is playing mind games with you, €3k is worth about €30 to them.

miss choc

I defo intend to ring them early on Tues as nothing is going to be done between now and Tues. We know our budget and will not rise above it luckily we are in a position we can go quite higher that whats on the table at the moment so we will wait and see what the story is next week.

The Megaphone

miss choc wrote: »

I defo intend to ring them early on Tues as nothing is going to be done between now and Tues. We know our budget and will not rise above it luckily we are in a position we can go quite higher that whats on the table at the moment so we will wait and see what the story is next week.

How about this - when you call the EA on Tuesday, start off by apologising for not calling him -mention that your mother-in-law insisted ye to go look at another property...

When he asks about it and what you thought of it - laugh it off saying it was way too close to her for your liking...

Its all about the mind games...

foggy_lad

miss choc wrote: »

Deciding gonna let them wait for my bid on Tuesday nothing will be doing over Easter anyway. They will be closing at 5.00 in all fairness I couldnt see the seller wanting to close today. The EA I think is just being pushy they rang me yesterday after I said I would get back I told them I would ring them again and they rang again today at 10am it's like back off :mad: am trying to sort out stuff and I dont want to put a bid on until I am ready they can hold out now till Tuesday. Many's a time a bid would be put on and an EA can leave you hanging for days so they can wait now.

It looks like Estate Agenst are trying to hold auctions for houses by getting buyers to get their bids in asap!

miss choc

Yeah they are quick enough to leave you hanging so figured one day more wont hurt them I will let them know on Tues and make up some lame excuse I can be civil to them but not all nicey nicey at the end of the day they just want a sale and hopefully that they can put your house on their list to make more money. The number of EA I used to get saying they would give me a free valuation and all the perks of selling with them whilst I was viewing houses.

Hillybilly4

Dying for an update!

miss choc

We put in another bid in yesterday EA came back with higher bid gonna wait today and chat with hubby and leave it hanging till late tomorrow don't want this moving too fast. We want to look at another house tomorrow too so trying to be calm re the bidding lot of people got fingers burnt bidding too quick and too high in the tiger days.

No Pants

miss choc wrote: »

We put in another bid in yesterday EA came back with higher bid

So the other "bidder" didn't even think about it and just raised the bid right away? Highly dubious.

NewRunnerRoy

How is it the estate agent playing mind games here? They have informed you of offers above yours and tried to get an idea of your position before a long weekend to report back to their client.

If anyone is playing games it is you.

limnam

put your bid to them advise them it's your final bid and is live for 5 days and for them only to get back to you if it's accepted.

Then move on.

miss choc

Previous poster yes that is a sensible way of looking at it I dont want this over and back crap as op said it was very quick for the other bidder? to come in, it's hard to tell if there "is" another bidder and EA or seller are just biding their time. We can afford to go a bit higher there are limited houses out there in our area and the ones we like go way high so hard to walk away on the ones we do like that are within our price range we have budgeted carefully and done the sums so hopefully either this house or the one we will go to view tomorrow.
So so the saga continues for another day.

GavMan

How much higher are the other bids?

If they're just 1 or 2 grand, they're probably genuine. If they're big like 5 or 10 grand, I'd be sceptical.

I do believe ghost bidding does take place but an EA is probably not going to ghost bid a grand or 2. That's only 10 or 20 quid extra to them in commish. There's no point to it. But if an EA thought they could squeeze an extra 20 or 30 grand out of you, that's 2 or 300 quid typically. A little bit more worth his while...

Bigcheeze

limnam wrote: »

put your bid to them advise them it's your final bid and is live for 5 days and for them only to get back to you if it's accepted.

Then move on.

Crap strategy.

miss choc

We bid then they went up by 3k we went up by 2k then today they went up by 2k EA told us they have viewed the house duh probably just to convince us that there is a genuine bidder which tbh think there is. Just weird on first viewing loads then no bids for 2 wks until we started ball rolling. At least it's not jumping in 5/10k in a matter of hours like the scary old days.

No Pants

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Crap strategy.

What exactly is crap about it?

lau1247

GavMan wrote: »

How much higher are the other bids?

If they're just 1 or 2 grand, they're probably genuine. If they're big like 5 or 10 grand, I'd be sceptical.

I do believe ghost bidding does take place but an EA is probably not going to ghost bid a grand or 2. That's only 10 or 20 quid extra to them in commish. There's no point to it. But if an EA thought they could squeeze an extra 20 or 30 grand out of you, that's 2 or 300 quid typically. A little bit more worth his while...

I would be cautious and wouldn't rule out ghost bidding.. Few grand here and few grand there.. a bit of back and forth and suddenly you might have 15-20K over the original bid price..

I'm sure by this stage EA would be smart enough to keep the increase reasonably modest just to bait people in.. that's just my opinion

miss choc

so hard to tell I would like to think they are not doing that as have a good reputation but they are estate agents who am I kidding they are only in it for themselves and hoping you will sell your house with them. If it's a slow seller they may be doing just that as well as dredging up the people who viewed it weeks ago.

TheDriver

Just keep to your max, increase slowly and stall a few days. Also look at other houses and keep options open

miss choc

Yes not ringing them today only putting a bid on when they ring me and looking at another house this afternoon too.

acer911

Ok so look at it this way, say the estate agent charges a 2.5% commission on a house. Value of the house is €350,000. Thus if they sold the house they would get €8,750. If you initial bid was at this level and as you are saying it increased by 3k, then 2k, then 2k then after a week the price is at €357,000 – commission €8,925. An extra €175 for the estate agent for all that extra work, pushing out the time-frame and all the while running the risk of losing you as a bidder for the house and having no fall back – thus no commission as the “ghost” bidder isn't buying the house.

In reality there is not too much of an incentive for the estate agent to work in the favour of the seller as the first offer will nearly always be best for them to take – they get the cash in and don’t have to go through any work of dealing with bidders and showing other's around the house, that is assuming the price isn't increasing in tens of thousands per bid.

So looking at it purely from an impartial view and using basic common sense I would say the existence of a “ghost” bidder in your case is low.
Hope this is of help to you.

miss choc

Thanks makes me feel a little better tbh they are reputable and a lot of houses around the areas are selling with them we bought the house we are in now off them no problems. Put in another bid at lunchtime so we will see.

limnam

acer911 wrote: »

Ok so look at it this way, say the estate agent charges a 2.5% commission on a house. Value of the house is €350,000. Thus if they sold the house they would get €8,750. If you initial bid was at this level and as you are saying it increased by 3k, then 2k, then 2k then after a week the price is at €357,000 – commission €8,925. An extra €175 for the estate agent for all that extra work, pushing out the time-frame and all the while running the risk of losing you as a bidder for the house and having no fall back – thus no commission as the “ghost” bidder isn't buying the house.

In reality there is not too much of an incentive for the estate agent to work in the favour of the seller as the first offer will nearly always be best for them to take – they get the cash in and don’t have to go through any work of dealing with bidders and showing other's around the house, that is assuming the price isn't increasing in tens of thousands per bid.

So looking at it purely from an impartial view and using basic common sense I would say the existence of a “ghost” bidder in your case is low.
Hope this is of help to you.

An estate agent will basically do what he's told

miss choc

Seller is in for a long wait if they think they will get to asking price. Though bidder might be happy to keep going up and up we have a limit though and will walk away at the moment we are ok. Mind games can drive you crazy :rolleyes: I guess if the other bidder backs out and there is no other offers only us they have the choice of taking our bid price or taking it off market for a while, it's all a waiting game now.

IrishAlice

Myself and my OH just recently started house hunting and are already dubious about one of the estate agents we have been dealing with.

We went to view a house last week and were told that a bid of 5k below asking price was put on the house and that the owners weren't willing to budge on the price.

So we discussed it and booked another viewing for yesterday (which was subsequently cancelled) with a view to offering asking price on the house on the condition that we don't get involved in a bidding war.

We thought this would be quite reasonable because the house is on the market nearly a year and they've already dropped the asking price 10k.

Then yesterday morning ahead of the 2nd viewing the estate agent called to tell us that someone bid the asking price and that if we wanted the house we'd have to go higher.

Am I being too cynical because the timing of all of this seems too convenient!

miss choc

Latest update after all the 2k,3k increments other bidder have come back with a jump of 7k they are either a. getting pi**ed off and want to blow our bid out of the water or b. this is their last chance final bid. Lets hope its the latter. Bidding wars are so unnerving.

the_syco

miss choc wrote: »

Latest update after all the 2k,3k increments other bidder have come back with a jump of 7k they are either a. getting pi**ed off and want to blow our bid out of the water or b. this is their last chance final bid. Lets hope its the latter. Bidding wars are so unnerving.

How much is the current bid above your original bid?

miss choc

€7k it started at increments of 3k's and 2ks' now it's this jump

miss choc

sorry our original bid 295 now it's at 312

limnam

After the 7k jump I would advise the EA you're very keen on another property and withdraw the previous offer.

Advise the EA that if there's a quick turn around to get in touch and be prepared to move on.

You're just going to get reeled in and pay over the odds in most probably a bidding war with your own wallet.

miss choc

We have decided we are gonna go to our final bid and then walk away. If we go up in a small increment it will stall it but they could come back and place our final offer bid at least if we put this offer on now we will now where we stand the EA will come back and they have either backed out cos of our big jump OR they will go over our final bid which we will know then that it was gonna go over. It is always tempting to go a bit over being that the we are still below the original house value but to be honest I cant see it going too high as there is only us and them and the bidding only started when we did :rolleyes: Will hate to leave it if outbid but have to be strong.
Would like some advice before put final bid on when should I ring EA? EA rang yesterday, should I ring tomorrow with bid? then I will probably get a call on Friday (or EA might wait till after bank hol) or should I wait to put the bid on Friday morning and see what happens after w/end? I've a feeling whatever I do I will either be happy or sad for the w/end I know I sound pessimistic but don't want to get hopes up.

limnam

miss choc wrote: »

We have decided we are gonna go to our final bid and then walk away. If we go up in a small increment it will stall it but they could come back and place our final offer bid at least if we put this offer on now we will now where we stand the EA will come back and they have either backed out cos of our big jump OR they will go over our final bid which we will know then that it was gonna go over. It is always tempting to go a bit over being that the we are still below the original house value but to be honest I cant see it going too high as there is only us and them and the bidding only started when we did :rolleyes: Will hate to leave it if outbid but have to be strong.
Would like some advice before put final bid on when should I ring EA? EA rang yesterday, should I ring tomorrow with bid? then I will probably get a call on Friday (or EA might wait till after bank hol) or should I wait to put the bid on Friday morning and see what happens after w/end? I've a feeling whatever I do I will either be happy or sad for the w/end I know I sound pessimistic but don't want to get hopes up.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90062386&postcount=18

miss choc

Never would think of trying that strategy OH doesn't know if it's a good idea to confirm it's our final offer to EA as they are just dealing with other bidder and trying to get the highest offer, but if I leave it live for the 5 days that is leaving it over the bank holiday w/end so would get an answer back on Tues if successful. It's an executor sale so sellers could be sitting on it for a while or wanting a quick sale hard to know I would prefer the latter as we would be in a quicker position to close as we don't have to sell. Still torn about weather to ring EA tomorrow or Friday. Going to view another one on Sat keep the options open :rolleyes:

Bigcheeze

telling them it's your final offer is of no value to you in a competitive bid. If anything it could benefit the other bidder.

These threads are always full of people who've never bought more than a packet of crisps and telling posters to walk away or tell the EA your next move is to drop your bid. Easy to say with someone else's life.

miss choc

Yeah it's all swings and roundabouts if I say it's our final offer as a cash buyer the sellers may be keen for a quick sale however they could be in no rush and will wait for the offer to go higher as I would if I was the seller.
I think I will go in with this last bid and clarify that we are cash buyers and mention no final offer. Just don't know weather to ring them tomorrow or Friday would prefer Friday but got a feeling they will be ringing me tomorrow (if I dont ring them by at least afternoon) we have been putting in a bid waiting two days whilst the other bidder has been doing the same two day rule.

miss choc

Just looked at my first post put in first offer 10th April whole bidding war is taking 3 wks :mad: with a few bank hols thrown in.

eclectichoney

At the end of the day, it is unlikely that any strategy will work in getting you a property for less than a competing party is willing to pay. That's the single biggest factor imo.

limnam

eclectichoney wrote: »

At the end of the day, it is unlikely that any strategy will work in getting you a property for less than a competing party is willing to pay. That's the single biggest factor imo.

hence it makes sense to make the bid and walk away. if it's good enough you're getting the house if not you save yourself a load of time and avoid getting emotional with other bidders etc it's win win

miss choc

Yeah even the EA doesnt know can only wait and see, just bugs me it was on the market for two weeks and not a peep as soon as we put a bid on they come out of the woodwork :rolleyes:

limnam

miss choc wrote: »

Yeah even the EA doesnt know can only wait and see, just bugs me it was on the market for two weeks and not a peep as soon as we put a bid on they come out of the woodwork :rolleyes:

no one came out of the woodwork.

You're not playing hard, the EA has identified that and is going to play you.

put the bid in and move on to the next house.

miss choc

Yeah I know Limnan whats meant to be will be if only there were a surge of property the demand is mad at the moment so the ideal family house in a decent enough area can be hard to come by, not looking for a mad posh area or a 4/5 bed just a run of the mill house that unfortunately everyone wants at the mo. Unless you have a ton of excess cash or can restore a doer upper yourself it's hard. Oh to have a tradesperson in the family

miss choc

It wasn't that we played hard to be honest we saw it 3 times and thought long and hard about the house. After one week we waited to see if there were any bids none, then we wanted to weigh up the pos/neg as we had been looking at another house too that week. I also wanted to check the house the 3rd time with a parent who would be living with us.
Then our budget and check finances it took a while I have bought before and I never want to rush in on one of the most important decisions that you make during your life.
Anyway it's now or never

Hockney

limnam wrote: »

put your bid to them advise them it's your final bid and is live for 5 days and for them only to get back to you if it's accepted.

Then move on.

This is just a load of big talk. Saying the above might make you feel like you're the one in control, but it has the opposite effect.

Giving the EA (and hence other bidders) any info which you don't need to give them is a nonsense strategy. Letting the EA know how high you can go weakens your position instead of strengthening it.

OP if you're going to make your final bid then by all means go and make it, but for the love of God don't go telling the EA its your upper limit.

Let the money do the big talking.

limnam

Hockney wrote: »

This is just a load of big talk. Saying the above might make you feel like you're the one in control, but it has the opposite effect.

Giving the EA (and hence other bidders) any info which you don't need to give them is a nonsense strategy. Letting the EA know how high you can go weakens your position instead of strengthening it.

OP if you're going to make your final bid then by all means go and make it, but for the love of God don't go telling the EA its your upper limit.

It gives no indication of what your budget it is or what you CAN go to. It puts a stop to anymore nonsense from the EA. You'll either get to a bid the owner will accept and avoid any "fake" counter bidding. Or you get to move on to the next house.

There is no indications there is other bidders here. you will often see a house on the market for sometimes over 24 months. Bid goes in. Now there;s a battle. Really? on a house that couldn't be moved for two years?

No one mentioned limits. Knowing the limit is only an advantage for the EA to get you there. If they think you're not going to make any more bids. What difference does it make what that limit is anyway? as you won't be going any further.

EA's are mostly using very similar strategy's advising to put the house on the market at a lowish price. get someone in. bring them in with small paper cut bids. then as you have them hit them with one or two larger bids near the end and they've gotten back to the original price.

If you're going for a 3 bed room semi in a certain area you don't need to tell the EA what your limit is. They all ready know.

You haven't bought many homes or sold many it seems.