Firing normal rounds from an AI chamber???

Zxthinger

anybody know the pros/cons about firing normal factory ammo from an AI chamber! Was looking at a 243 in particular!

I don't know if the chamber was set back to stop should cracking but was just looking for general advice! I know you can shoot the normal stuff from AI chambers but I'd think you lose a bit of performance?

How might it effect accuracy!
Will the chamber be subject to premature ware?
Will I have issues extracting unfired rounds?
Any help sought!

Thanks ladd

Cass

Before i start i'm not being pedantic. Just people call the same item(s) different names so i'm just asking some questions to clarify things.

You say:

anybody know the pros/cons about firing normal factory ammo from an AI chamber!

What is an AI chamber?

The chamber of a rifle is the portion of the barrel that the round/cartridge sits in prior to firing. Are you referring to the chamber of an AI rifle barrel?

I don't know if the chamber was set back to stop shoulder cracking but was just looking for general advice!

If the chamber was "set back" it would have meant the barrel was cut at the chamber end to partially (not advised) or fully remove the chamber to have the barrel re-chambered. This can be done for a number of reasons including a fault/wear (such as fire cracking) in the chamber.

If the gun is second hand then ask the owner if the barrel seems shorted than it should be. Ask them if he had it re-chambered or the barrel shortened from the muzzle.

I know you can shoot the normal stuff from AI chambers but I'd think you lose a bit of performance?

If the gun is re-chambered correctly there should be no loss in performance. Assuming the barrel is not a complete loss/shot out.

If you are talking about overall length, headspacing, and throat length then they need to be measured.

How might it effect accuracy!

As above measurements need to be taken and then compared to factory ammo. Remington have a very long throat (using as an example). So much so that in some ammo (.308) the bullet is at one point (after firing) out of the case and not engaged in the lands/grooves of the barrel. We are talking such tiny amount of time i don't even know what to call it. This is usually with shorter stuff under 150 gr. This is because Remington mags only allow for OAL of 2.800 (give or take a few thousandths) but the overall length in the chamber is in the 3.010 region.

Will the chamber be subject to premature ware?

I cannot really answer this until i get a better understanding. Hell i might not even be able to answer then, but i don't fully understand where you're coming from so any answer will be based on what i think you are referring to rather than what you are referring to.

Will I have issues extracting unfired rounds?

If done correctly no. If not done correctly then possibly. The best way to check is always to chamber a fired piece of brass and check for tightness in bolt closure, any hard extractions or signs of cracking in the case neck.

Any help sought!

Not much help as i've asked more than i've answered and my knowledge would be amateur compared to others, but if you could clarify some points above it should make for a good topic.

patsat

Pretty sure he is on about Ackley Improved and not Accuracy International

tac foley

Yes, you CAN shoot standard .243 cartridges in a rifle chambered for a .243 Ackley Improved - if that is what you are talking about - that was how the cartridge cases were originally fire-formed.

HOWEVER - please note my BOLD & RED -

Fire-Forming
As always, fire-forming is done by one of two methods. Most of you will fire form the brass with loaded .243 Winchester. Ackley always said to use factory loads, or reload equivalent ammo to have a "snappy" load to form the case out properly. You never want to use a reduced load to form with, since you need the pressure to form properly. If your rifle is chambered properly, you should feel a slight amount of resistance as you close the bolt on a new piece of brass. If you do not get this "feel", you may need to seat the bullets out to .010" to .015" into the lands to make sure that the base of the case stays in solid contact with the bolt face.[/

If this happens to your ammunition, you are screwed, since tampering with ammunition in this way is illegal in the RoI. It is VITAL that you get this tight feeling, as the shoulders of the two cartridges are VERY different, the AI case having a very much sharper shoulder that gives it its increased capacity and performance. Shooting the cartridge with excessive headspace will be very unpleasant to say the least, and MIGHT cause case-head separation.

Me, I'd stick to using the correct ammunition in the rifle that is chambered for it.

tac

Cass

Cheers Patsat.

That's where the confusion came from. Not used to talking about Ackley Improved as it requires reloading so when i see AI i immediately assume Accuracy International.

Feel free to disregard my previous post as much/all of it may be irrelevant.

Dian Cecht

What is Ackely Improved ?

tac foley

Please read - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.O._Ackley

tac

rowa

Dian Cecht wrote: »

What is Ackely Improved ?

Its pointless thats what it is. The answer if you want more power is to go to the next round up the scale, eg. If a .243 win isn't doing to for you , step up to 25-06. In fairness if reloading was widespread and simple to do in ireland, the ackley improved might make some sense, but currently they sound like more trouble then they are worth.

tac foley

rowa wrote: »

Its pointless thats what it is. The answer if you want more power is to go to the next round up the scale, eg. If a .243 win isn't doing to for you , step up to 25-06. In fairness if reloading was widespread and simple to do in ireland, the ackley improved might make some sense, but currently they sound like more trouble then they are worth.

Ronan - I got the impression that the OP actually HAS a .243AI and wants to know about firing commercial cartridges in it.

Mind you, there can't be TOO many AI rifles in the RoI; they are rare enough here where we CAN reload. Perhaps he lives in the North?

I don't recall ever seeing a single one in our little club of around 300 members, and there's most calibres represented there. As you note, if you want more oomph, you move up a calibre.

tac

EWQuinn

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/243_with_243_Ackley.jpg

This pic gives the visual, 5 gr more capacity due to the steeper shoulder (its also at the Wiki site linked by Tac). Good luck finding factory ammo for it, you may have no choice but to shoot regular .243 unless you are reloading, somewhere not in ROI.

tac foley

I'm trying hard to figure out why somebody in the RoI would licence a rifle in a highly specialised unobtainable calibre.

IMO you really HAVE to want any of the AI calibres in a country where so few reload, and that for one specific element of the shooting sport.

tac

Zxthinger

Post deleted as it's not worth falling out with anyone over such nonsense

tac foley

I've given you all the technical advice you'll ever need.

The word is - don't do it.

The mods will no doubt put you right about the rest of your unwarranted and undeserved little rant.

tac

Zxthinger

Tac above post deleted! Ok

But yer wrong about reloading! No licence is needed to reload.. Check it out! All ye want. To much righteousness here tbh

patsat

rowa wrote: »

Its pointless thats what it is. The answer if you want more power is to go to the next round up the scale, eg. If a .243 win isn't doing to for you , step up to 25-06. In fairness if reloading was widespread and simple to do in ireland, the ackley improved might make some sense, but currently they sound like more trouble then they are worth.

Pointless in this country I do agree but your point isn't a great one. People may want more punch out of their .243 but still want to use 6mm bullets as they would have superior .bc and choice than the bullets fired from a .25-06.

They also may have a .243 barrel that has plenty of life in it and choose to rechamber it rather than spending on a new barrel.

But being a country that doesn't allow loading, yes they are pointless.....But they sure make a round much more attractive!

Good looking round!

Zxthinger

BTW thanks tac for technical advice!
But no thanks for YOUR legal interpretation

Cass

I couldn't care if you deleted your post. You need straightening out on more than one thing but for this thread i'll stick to reloading. Once again you ask a question, get your answers, and then moan and bitch about the answer. It's not your first time to do so. If you don't want to know, don't like the answers then just do as you please and stop posting about it.

and it a little OTT tbh to see legal protocol being dragged up he for every issue!

No one started quoting the law. The only remark was using a caliber that you must reload for in a country where reloading is not available to people on an individual basis or at home.

The boys in the midlands are reloading without any licence as it's not a requirement in law!!!!!

This bullsh*t about lads in the reloading scheme not having licenses is simply put - bullsh*t. We are on a list of authorised personel that the DoJ keep on record. The Midlands has the authorisation for the reloading and those authorised, via their participation in F-Class, is what allows them to reload. J.C. asked a load of questions about these "reloading licenses" that i answered in another thread.

Afaik/concerned reloading requires no licence! And if I wanted to pull bullets out of rounds and re-seat the closed to the lands then I can't for the life of me find any legal impediment to boot!

AFAIK/Concerned. So it's your opinion, or more to the point for all you want to know/hear.

It's really a drag to have to suffer through all the can and cants from people who don't know what their talking about!!

Bearing in mind that you just said "AFAIK/concerned" you have to laugh that you dismiss others for not knowing what they are talking about when you are so far off track in terms of what you think you know. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and no knowledge but the stubborness to continue to do it is downright stupid.

I've seen the comments before about stripping rounds down, and remaking them as not being reloading. Again this is a vain attempt to circumvent the law. The very second you take the bullet from the case you are no longer in possession of a complete round, but individual components. The brass and bullets you're fine with as they are covered under your license. However the propellant and primers are covered under the explosive act, not the firearms act. So whether you re-size the round and put it back together using the exact components you removed to resize or change the charge, bullet, etc you are reloading.

It like dealing a gang of shooters that are all weekend-barristers.

If this does not sit right with you then knock yourself out with whatever you want, as we are not An Gardaí, but don't expect to be allowed to discuss illegal activities on this forum.

I've heard the excuse of "sure i'll be doing it at home, no one will know and i'll have the round made with no one around to see me with the individual components". Grand so, again knock yourself out. It's illegal, and will not be allowed to be discussed on this forum.

But yer wrong about reloading! No licence is needed to reload

Then why is everyone not doing it?

If you are in doubt then contact the Firearms Policy Unit. Tell them you are not in the Midlands/on the scheme, and you intend to strip ammo to reload to suit a caliber you want to buy. See what they say.

.. FFS what PIA this righteousness is.

AA for April fools day jokes about boards pulse numbers being issued or required! Well to be honest there seems to be a lot here that would love to see that happen!!

It seems you make friends wherever you go. There is no "locked door" to Boards. You are free to leave whenever you want. Continue with any activity you deem legal cause you said so. However as said you will not be given the opportunity to discuss it here if you insist on trying to.


Thread closed to prevent further discussion/promotion of illegal activity.