'Smart' Responses

ShaggyQueen

Just reading the thread where a user asks what are the benefits of running and noticed 'smart comments' which I think are totally unnecessary.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057181214

What benefit does responses like "The benefit is you'll be able to run 3.5km in one go seven times a week" add to anything?

Its something I've noticed here before, as well as across several fitness communities on the internet. I think its something that should be stamped out here, responses like the above are hardly going to encourage people to take up fitness activities. I didn't think I'd ever look for tighter moderation on boards, but comments like the above to genuine questions add nothing other than to discourage people to either ask questions or worse try to get in shape

Alf Veedersane

As that was my response, the OP was apologised to if it appeared as if I was dismissing the post out of hand.

I did also try ot offer some advice afterwards so I would disagree that I was discouraging the OP.

But I take the point that it could have which is why I apologised to the OP.

Oryx

My reading of that particular comment, was that it referred (slightly obliquely) to the fact that fitness is adaptation for a purpose, and that how you train leads to the adaptation you gain. I presumed AV was pointing out to the op that if you train to run 3.5k per day, that is exactly what you will gain from it - the ability to run 3.5k per day! I have seen similar comments before in various fitness based fora (around here) without any offence being inferred.

Edit: The post in question has not been reported as problematic, either.

Alf Veedersane

Oryx wrote: »

My reading of that particular comment, was that it referred (slightly obliquely) to the fact that fitness is adaptation for a purpose, and that how you train leads to the adaptation you gain. I presumed AV was pointing out to the op that if you train to run 3.5k per day, that is exactly what you will gain from it - the ability to run 3.5k per day! I have seen similar comments before in various fitness based fora (around here) without any offence being inferred.

Edit: The post in question has not been reported as problematic, either.

That was what I had intended it to mean, with no context to goals or current running ability.

But it doesn't obviously read as that.

Hanley

What's the point in starting a thread to complain about contributions when you never contribute?

Would be easier to start contributing positively than negatively.

2 ways to have the tallest building in town.

1) build yours up the highest
2) tear everyone else's down

Jerrica

Hanley wrote: »

What's the point in starting a thread to complain about contributions when you never contribute?

Perhaps smart answers are one of the reasons why people are slow to contribute.

If someone asks a question that is obviously an uninformed but well-meaning one, then provide decent answers. Alf Veedersane is a very active and positive contributor to the forum, unfortunately on this occasion, to those who would only be infrequent or occasional viewers, his answer reads as glib and smart. A thread title like "What is the Benefit of Running" is going to attract a lot of views, it's one of those questions that - if you're well read in fitness - you'll almost instinctively know the answer, but to those less "in the know" it's a very valid question.

I get that it's frustrating when the same questions are asked over and over and over again and even moreso when you know that a question could easily be answered by a Google Search, but give new faces the benefit of the doubt and make the effort to help.

Theresalwaysone

Jerrica wrote: »

Perhaps smart answers are one of the reasons why people are slow to contribute.

You're just giving people who never contribute and excuse to whinge about contributions.

I'd be confident enough saying that anyone who doesnt contribute because of the possibility of getting smart replies wouldn't have been a good contributor anyway.

Jerrica

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

You're just giving people who never contribute and excuse to whinge about contributions.

I'd be confident enough saying that anyone who doesnt contribute because of the possibility of getting smart replies wouldn't have been a good contributor anyway.

You know those threads you see about people who are scared or afraid to go tot a gym for the first time? Should all those people just not bother because they don't have the potential to get in shape if they can't cross the threshold?

We were all beginners once. Some of us found it easier to get stuck in, others needed a little bit of encouragement. If you're going to restrict contributors to the former then it'll be a pretty narrow bunch of folks in here.

RidleyRider

It's a bad state of affairs if nobody can have a laugh here anymore.


My two cents, grow thicker skin, it's the internet.

Essien

HTFU supplements required IMO.

Theresalwaysone

Jerrica wrote: »

You know those threads you see about people who are scared or afraid to go tot a gym for the first time? Should all those people just not bother because they don't have the potential to get in shape if they can't cross the threshold?

We were all beginners once. Some of us found it easier to get stuck in, others needed a little bit of encouragement. If you're going to restrict contributors to the former then it'll be a pretty narrow bunch of folks in here.

You're missing the point.

People need to be able to dismiss the smart answers as just that, someone being a smart ass, and do some homework to be able to pick out whats valuable.

Being precious about it is riduculous. Especially on a internet message board. Christ... what do these people do in real life?

I'm all for beginners posting, and beginners becoming regular and knowledgeable contributors, but I'd expect them to brush off the inevitable smart comments and absolutely not use that as an excuse not to contribute.

Outside of the world of the internet, a person with that attitude is going to fin d it very hard to do anything in life.

Storm in a teacup anyway this whole thread.

Jerrica

When someone says "I think there's a problem here" there's an option to listen and discuss - you don't need to agree with it, but you can listen. Instead it's dismissed as folks being "precious" and they are questioned on how they'll get in in life. That's some pretty fantastic deflection.

I'm just not a fan of being a dick for the sake of it. I guess I'm old fashioned like that.

quaalude

I've nearly posted on this board many times, when I've felt I'd something to contribute, but then decided it wasn't worth the hassle, because of the inevitable "smart" responses and how wound up it'd make me.
There are loads of great posters here, and great information, but the house style can be curt and obnoxious, which means posters like me are more likely to read than contribute.

Theresalwaysone

Jerrica wrote: »

When someone says "I think there's a problem here" there's an option to listen and discuss - you don't need to agree with it, but you can listen. Instead it's dismissed as folks being "precious" and they are questioned on how they'll get in in life. That's some pretty fantastic deflection.

I'm just not a fan of being a dick for the sake of it. I guess I'm old fashioned like that.

Just because someone says there is a problem doesnt meant there is a problem.

RidleyRider

quaalude wrote: »

I've nearly posted on this board many times, when I've felt I'd something to contribute, but then decided it wasn't worth the hassle, because of the inevitable "smart" responses and how wound up it'd make me.
There are loads of great posters here, and great information, but the house style can be curt and obnoxious, which means posters like me are more likely to read than contribute.

I'm afraid the internet isn't for you then.

Btw, that's not a smart answer, it's serious.

Jerrica

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Just because someone says there is a problem doesnt meant there is a problem.

You're absolutely right, but is it not better to explore it, even a little bit, than dismiss it out of hand? Particularly given the topic here it only adds to the problem being presented.

I was a Mod here for 5-ish years, and all throughout that time the forum was by and large fantastically helpful and supportive, and that is still the case, but from time to time lethargy sets in, people get hacked off answering questions time after time with what looks like little or no return, and the smart answers creep in. There's no harm in checking that once in a while. I really think that the regulars have to hold themselves to a higher standard as they're the ones who get listened to most and it's their behaviour that sets the tone of the whole forum.

Tasden

I dunno I can see both sides of the argument. Its the internet, so I'd tend to be of the opinion that "banning" smart responses or whatever is a little precious.

But then at the same time sometimes people do have questions ( myself included) that they may know are a little obvious/ stupid but they'd rather just ask them and have quick confirmation from a source they trust and then for people to just use it as an opportunity to be witty and superior it does kind of make you roll your eyes a bit.
Or what's even worse is when you can see an innocent enough question and then a poster will almost goad the op into saying something "wrong" so they can then go on their little rant about how stupid it is and how they know better. I can't give an example at the minute so dunno if people will know what I'm talking about.

Fwiw though most of the regular posters (don't know the names offhand, on mobile site- Alf, Hanley, stench etc) are respectful and encouraging to posters, while being funny or whatever too.

Panda_Turtle

Somebody might ask:

Whats the benefits of running?

Half the people on here will think:

Do you even lift?

Oryx

I think its good to get a check every now and again to remind us that we may come across as dickish. True, you can get jaded with the same old same old, but new posters do need to be led by the hand now and again. Sure you can say the internet is a tough place, get used to it, but hasn't boards always prided itself on not going down that route, and actually being a more 'local' and friendly place?

I know if I do a search on 'x' topic and come across 'y' message board where someone has already asked the question, it irritates the heck out of me when the posters of that forum go off on some cliquey rant instead of Answering The Damn Query. I dont want a private club, I want help! We need to strike a balance that lets us gel as a group, while leaving room for noobs to join in.

Inspector Coptoor

RidleyRider wrote: »

I'm afraid the internet isn't for you then.

Btw, that's not a smart answer, it's serious.

So because "this is the internet", that's the kind of juvenile one-up-manship comment one should expect at all times?

quaalude

RidleyRider wrote: »

I'm afraid the internet isn't for you then.

Btw, that's not a smart answer, it's serious.

Fair enough. I've been on the internet a long time, but I have a love/hate relationship with it - as do most people, I imagine.

cletus van damme

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

So because "this is the internet", that's the kind of juvenile one-up-manship comment one should expect at all times?

I see your point and I don't disagree but the internet isn't real life.
people do behave differently - not out of badness either.
Just how it is.

Hanley

cletus van damme wrote: »

I see your point and I don't disagree but the internet isn't real life.
people do behave differently - not out of badness either.
Just how it is.

My one rule;

"if I wouldn't say it to someones face, don't say it on the internet"

...I think anyone who's met me in person will agree I conform to that.

jlm29

Panda_Turtle wrote: »

Somebody might ask:



Half the people on here will think:

I had a little out loud laugh at this! Sometimes it seems that no matter what someone asks, they're told to lift heavy, and read the stickies. I was a bit surprised this morning when I saw that the person who asked about the benefits of running wasn't told to do those two things.
I enjoy this forum, find it helpful. But, I do feel that often there's this general air of condescension from some of the regulars.

Essien

jlm29 wrote: »

Sometimes it seems that no matter what someone asks, they're told to lift heavy

The vast majority of 'beginner' questions that are posted here are essentially asking about improved body composition. Lifting weights is, in most circumstances, the correct answer.

jlm29 wrote: »

and read the stickies.

If you ask something that's covered in the stickies you're in no position to complain about condescending responses IMO.

Nervous Wreck

I never understood why a smart answer would be a bad thing....

jlm29

Essien wrote: »

The vast majority of 'beginner' questions that are posted here are essentially asking about improved body composition. Lifting weights is, in most circumstances, the correct answer.



If you ask something that's covered in the stickies you're in no position to complain about condescending responses IMO.

By my lifting heavy comment, I meant really that I've noticed that on occasion, someone asks a question that really just requires a simple specific reply, and it turns into a totally different discussion, the general theme of which is lifting. I can't recall a specific example of where this happened right now, but it does, and fairly regularly.
That said, in most topics on boards, people use questions asked to derail threads and give their own personal opinions, which may be totally off topic

Blacktie.

jlm29 wrote: »

That said, in most topics on boards, people use questions asked to derail threads and give their own personal opinions, which may be totally off topic

I disagree with this. I think people ask questions to get more specific on the OPs goal. Most questions by beginners are incredibly vague. With more specific information we can provide better answers.

Doug Cartel

Blacktie. wrote: »

Most questions by beginners are incredibly vague. With more specific information we can provide better answers.

Most beginner questions are like this because if they knew what their real question was, they could almost certainly bang it into google and get their answer.

I'm not being condescending here, sometimes asking the right question is the most difficult part of fixing a problem.

ShaggyQueen

Hanley wrote: »

What's the point in starting a thread to complain about contributions when you never contribute?

Would be easier to start contributing positively than negatively.

2 ways to have the tallest building in town.

1) build yours up the highest
2) tear everyone else's down

I have contributed over the past few years, never anything close to a regular though, until I closed my account due to time constraints. But thats neither here nor there, being a regular shouldn't be a prerequisite to having an opinion on the forum.

Oryx wrote: »

I think its good to get a check every now and again to remind us that we may come across as dickish. True, you can get jaded with the same old same old, but new posters do need to be led by the hand now and again. Sure you can say the internet is a tough place, get used to it, but hasn't boards always prided itself on not going down that route, and actually being a more 'local' and friendly place?

I know if I do a search on 'x' topic and come across 'y' message board where someone has already asked the question, it irritates the heck out of me when the posters of that forum go off on some cliquey rant instead of Answering The Damn Query. I dont want a private club, I want help! We need to strike a balance that lets us gel as a group, while leaving room for noobs to join in.

I think this is the key point, boards has been known as a friendly community for many interests across all ages.

Saying harden up its the internet is all well and good, but every part of the internet isn't the same. I'd have no problem directing my parents or older neighbour towards boards for example, as opposed to somewhere like 4chan for a problem (maybe a bit of an extreme difference, but boards is somewhere trustworthy, compared to other communities)

cletus van damme

ShaggyQueen wrote: »

But thats neither here nor there, being a regular shouldn't be a prerequisite to having an opinion on the forum.


)

I'm less likely to invest time in the answer if the question is short or shows little investigation on behalf of the poser of the question .

I've wasted time in the past given decent and researched advice to people who don't act on any of it (outside of the internet mostly)

however I'll make the exception in the case of a regular poster as they have previous as people who contribute to this forum. That's how being a regular poster helps.

I'll give pointers yes but a person needs to educate themselves and not expect be spoonfeed . which btw doesn't help anybody.

so

Q:" I'm running 3.5k a day what will i achieve."

A: eh....you'll be great at 3.5k....

which i think is a fine answer cos the poster has given little detail in teh question or shown little interest in their own topic. I'm not going to bust my nuts writing the pros/cons and expected results and alternatives to a question like that. However....

if the poster invests more ( a tiny bit more) into their delimma like this (for example)

I plan to run 3.5k a day and I was reading "runners weekly" and they said that is the crappest routine ever but I don't know why? any advice.

Then I'm sure the posters here would jump on board with detailed advice.

go further and say "Karl and Pat Henry said light weights and long runs only" and they'll give you a thesis,,,:pac::pac::pac:

Vague questions or queries on advice with no thought isn't going to whet my appetite to response with more than a glib answer.

I wish i could say to the guys here "Make me ripped, now....this minute".
But life doesn't work like that.

my opinion anyway.