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whole crop, maize or itailian

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    #62
    Timmaay
    Registered Users Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    Maybe I'm lazy, but ultimately the problem here (need for several high energy, high protein feeds in the winter) can be solved quickly by just ditching autumn calvers ha. Certainly my plan once I have fertility sorted.


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    #63
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users Posts: 11,074 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    Not great. We grazed the Italian Herr 3 weeks ago and the cows went back a litre for the 10 days they were on it.

    But when its silage its a complete different story.
    They just milk for sport off it

    Id disagree gg,I know a guy that z grazes Italian and its perfectvforcir as it grows so quick..it needs to be cut at the right stage though as it goes to stem very quick.


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    #64
    conor t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 154 ✭✭conor t


    Dat Lucerne is supposed to be able to do 15 t DM/ha but it needs very gud drainage and the crown can't be damaged if its to survive


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    #65
    st1979
    Registered Users Posts: 936 ✭✭✭st1979


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    I don't think I'll be going the maize route this year maahoney . I want to Get at least 20ac rreseeded on the grazing block this year and if I go and plant maize it will use up all the money we had planned to use for reseeding.

    It will either be barley and Italian, lucerene or straight itailian

    I done barley and italian as a reseed on silage only land. Worked good. You are not going to have the best wholecrop ever from it. But it gives extra bulk for the cost of the seed. And doesnt affect the reseed imo. Mine is in 4th year now and probably could do with a freshen up. So after first cut i might put on some seed and then slurry on top. Although last year third cut went to seed so may have reseeded itself we will see by first cuts bulk.
    Dont think lucerne is a runner. Has been tried before and is not even popular in south of england although some is grown.


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    #66
    F.D
    Registered Users Posts: 718 ✭✭✭F.D


    Would there be much of a difference in a 2 cut silage mix made up of perennial rye grasses over a full itialian rye grass mix ?


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    #67
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    F.D wrote: »
    Would there be much of a difference in a 2 cut silage mix made up of perennial rye grasses over a full itialian rye grass mix ?

    Very big. Ye can get up to 18-19 bales and acre off Italian in the first cut and have two other cuts too


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    #68
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    Id disagree gg,I know a guy that z grazes Italian and its perfectvforcir as it grows so quick..it needs to be cut at the right stage though as it goes to stem very quick.

    It might grow quick but that's the only way it beats proper grazing grass.
    I find its very soft and holds a lot of water and the cows are never really full on it.
    And that had been wintered and was a good dry time when we grazed it.
    Found the same in the autumn


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    #69
    Gillespy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,217 ✭✭✭Gillespy


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    But when its silage its a complete different story.
    They just milk for sport off it
    It does a good impression of straw if cutting is delayed by a few hours. It does look good from the road though. Not a fan.


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    #70
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    Gillespy wrote: »
    It does a good impression of straw if cutting is delayed by a few hours. It does look good from the road though. Not a fan.

    Were only growing it so we can get a big lot of decent silage that's about it


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    #71
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    May I suggest another way?

    Plant conventional grass and purchase 100 (3ac) tonne of beet washed and chopped. This can be pitted with citrus or soya hulls on arrival. This leaves the muck and work with someone else.

    Lob 20kg per cow into feeder and you'll have lots of high solids milk. Balance with hiphos mins and protein.

    Neighbour grows Lucerne for winter cows. Great feed but not really suited to Irish weather conditions. On the odd sunny year good crop but usually average.


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    #72
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    frazzledhome wrote: »
    May I suggest another way?

    Plant conventional grass and purchase 100 (3ac) tonne of beet washed and chopped. This can be pitted with citrus or soya hulls on arrival. This leaves the muck and work with someone else.

    Lob 20kg per cow into feeder and you'll have lots of high solids milk. Balance with hiphos mins and protein.

    Neighbour grows Lucerne for winter cows. Great feed but not really suited to Irish weather conditions. On the odd sunny year good crop but usually average.

    Still won't have enough silage though. I need 1200 bales plus to have enough feed from November until mid February full time.

    Plan is in a few yrs when I have numbers up and hopefully have other silage ground that this will be turned in grazing ground.

    Father won't buy beet any more after a load of clay was dropped in yard a few yrs ago.
    Loads of lads at beet around here but very few with washer and choppers.

    If I can convince him to get beet in the autumn I'd say we will. Only problem will be then is finding somewhere to put it :D

    Reading up on Lucerne today and I don't think its a runner. You won't get a cut till the autumn in the first year as you say you need lots of hot weather


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    #73
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users Posts: 11,074 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    Still won't have enough silage though. I need 1200 bales plus to have enough feed from November until mid February full time.

    Plan is in a few yrs when I have numbers up and hopefully have other silage ground that this will be turned in grazing ground.

    Father won't buy beet any more after a load of clay was dropped in yard a few yrs ago.
    Loads of lads at beet around here but very few with washer and choppers.

    If I can convince him to get beet in the autumn I'd say we will. Only problem will be then is finding somewhere to put it :D

    Reading up on Lucerne today and I don't think its a runner. You won't get a cut till the autumn in the first year as you say you need lots of hot weather

    Going bob current weather patterns I think u need to bank on a winter even in dry farms of early November to late feb with a buffer of another 4 to 6 weeks possibly more.still think maize is ur best bet,could u get a tillage man to grow it on contract????.outside of that whole crop winter wheat but no tillage man will give u a 4 tonne plus crop of that!


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    #74
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    Going bob current weather patterns I think u need to bank on a winter even in dry farms of early November to late feb with a buffer of another 4 to 6 weeks possibly more.still think maize is ur best bet,could u get a tillage man to grow it on contract????.outside of that whole crop winter wheat but no tillage man will give u a 4 tonne plus crop of that!
    Ye my 1200 bales are budgeted to feed part Tim from mid oct to mid Nov and full time from mid Nov to mid Feb and part time till April.

    Suggested that to the father that we ask the neighbour but he said he wont .
    Neighbour has over 1000acres of winter wheat


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    #75
    Timmaay
    Registered Users Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    Whats your overall stocking rate GG?


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    #76
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    Timmaay wrote: »
    Whats your overall stocking rate GG?

    On grazing block this year?


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    #77
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    On grazing block this year?

    1.6 with silage ground in
    2.14 with it out


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    #78
    Timmaay
    Registered Users Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    1.6 with silage ground in
    2.14 with it out

    So the overall farm is 1.6? Surely importing any sort of feed with a SR that low is abit of a waste? Ours was 1.7/1.8 for the last few years, only grass silage made here but almost every year we'd knock out a fair excess of silage bales, that was with the rented land very low on lime and P/K. I still will maintain that switching to mostly spring milkers, and then make some of mahoneys high dmd wraps will solve many of your problems, and keep everything nice and simple! Obviously wont happen this winter however!


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    #79
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    Timmaay wrote: »
    So the overall farm is 1.6? Surely importing any sort of feed with a SR that low is abit of a waste? Ours was 1.7/1.8 for the last few years, only grass silage made here but almost every year we'd knock out a fair excess of silage bales, that was with the rented land very low on lime and P/K. I still will maintain that switching to mostly spring milkers, and then make some of mahoneys high dmd wraps will solve many of your problems, and keep everything nice and simple! Obviously wont happen this winter however!

    We were very high the last 10yrs. Running around 2.8. Not great when you have low everything. So this year will be nice hopefully.
    Just don't want to have to go buying silage again and I want to make sure I have a reserve.

    I still think I'll be low on silage even though grass is hopping here now and its getting a proper chance to grow.

    Maybe your right that I won't be tight for silage but myself and the father are sick of being tight on feed every year


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    #80
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    How much do you grow per ha?

    I'm surprised your not growing enough silage at that Sr


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    #81
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    frazzledhome wrote: »
    How much do you grow per ha?

    I'm surprised your not growing enough silage at that Sr

    That's only this year it was at 2.8-2.9 every other year.
    Don't know as I've only started measuring this year.
    But I suspect it has only been about 10t
    Should grow a lot more than that this year as the whole farm is at 6.6 pH which it never was at before.
    Has gotten 11 units of phos already and were spreading pasture sward all year as well and will spread a further 11 units of p in autumn.
    Would like to see at least 12t grown this year


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    #82
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    We were very high the last 10yrs. Running around 2.8. Not great when you have low everything. So this year will be nice hopefully.
    Just don't want to have to go buying silage again and I want to make sure I have a reserve.

    I still think I'll be low on silage even though grass is hopping here now and its getting a proper chance to grow.

    Maybe your right that I won't be tight for silage but myself and the father are sick of being tight on feed every year

    You can buy silage cheaper than you can make it, I reckon


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    #83
    trixi2011
    Registered Users Posts: 1,535 ✭✭✭trixi2011


    frazzledhome wrote: »
    You can buy silage cheaper than you can make it, I reckon
    your right there but sometimes you maybe as well feeding straw as bales you would buy as it would be pure ****e. Anyone test silage before they buy at home ?


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    #84
    20silkcut
    Registered Users Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    Was out spreading nitrogen last year on a crop of Italian. Spreader made fierce noise at one stage and I clutched. Threw out a heap of nitrogen in that spot.
    Where normal grass would burn up at that spot the Italian just turned a darker shade of green and grew thicker.
    It absolutely loves nitrogen. Will never burn from excess nitrogen. You could probably go 4 or 5 bags to the acre, if it could be got cheap enough.


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    #85
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    20silkcut wrote: »
    Was out spreading nitrogen last year on a crop of Italian. Spreader made fierce noise at one stage and I clutched. Threw out a heap of nitrogen in that spot.
    Where normal grass would burn up at that spot the Italian just turned a darker shade of green and grew thicker.
    It absolutely loves nitrogen. Will never burn from excess nitrogen. You could probably go 4 or 5 bags to the acre, if it could be got cheap enough.
    Only problem then is she will be standing for an awful long time before the N runs out


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