..The end is nigh..

TEAT SQUEEZER

As we prepare to enter the last year of quota controlled milk production there seems to be plenty factors inside and outside the farm gate that need attention as individuals and as a collective..

for me trying to keep a poss superlevy 14\15 in check is already going to impact how i`ll get on post quota ... ive culled hard and sold hard and will start next year with a lopsided herd so to speak with a burst of heifers ... they will impact on cash flow without contributing as much as mature cows (not to mention workload next spring)..

I have a major housing decision to make shortly also.. I know some on here have already developed In anticipation but I need to wait until i`m nearer having the stock paying their way before being in a position to repay on a major capital outlay... basically as I see it i`ve got to make a stab at where I will end up and plan for this ... proposed grants next year are a distraction ..would I be better go ahead this year cos nothing raises prices like a grant scheme ...

plenty lads on here with various systems ...I see an inevitable increase in inputs ... some interesting posts from lads in nz who will stick rigidly to low inputs while many irish cows would deliver in a high milk price \mod conc price scenario...and still be sufficiently fed on grass when not so favourable

outside the gate clarity on prod rights\contracts is not there yet or clarity on supply profile requirements... will increased milk in summer dilute an individuals winter supply to such an extent as to make it a waste of time?....

Timmaay

Alot of things to sort out here before I can dream about proper expansion and maximising the profitability of the farm. I'd like to go down the route of contract rearing, I haven't found anyone suitable yet, and it obviously would take time and trust before any sort of agreement go trashed out, thats most certainly a must for any large increase in milking cow numbers as I'm heavily stocked right at the minute in any case. Disregardless of that decision, sticking to what I have at the minute, the main thing would be to sort out the grazing block fully, decent bit of drainage needed definitely, too many drains on the farm are just not up to scratch, and it is putting a limit on the grazing season in my view. Alongside that, reseeding the rest of the farm, and sorting out p and ks are top of the list to do. Adding extra stock won't be a huge stumbling block for me, I'd probably buy in again if I did see an opportunity to boost cow numbers but didn't have the stock, there would be local farmers knocking out excess heifers most years. A new tank and parlour are on the pipeline anyways, and shedspace isn't a huge limit, the only real thing I need to increase is slurry storage.

But in any case, as things stand 1st April 2015 won't see any major changes by me. It will most likely be slow and steady over the next few years, however I don't care about cow numbers/total litres produced or any other willy waving figures, the only figure I'm interested in is profit.

TEAT SQUEEZER

Ahh im waiting a long time for the end of dquotas. ... have potential to near double in fact ... have arsed with beef and tillage for year's. .. its a big undertaking with development needed and a replacement for the old man (lrreplacable) ...

Timmaay

TEAT SQUEEZER wrote: »

Ahh im waiting a long time for the end of dquotas. ... have potential to near double in fact ... have arsed with beef and tillage for year's. .. its a big undertaking with development needed and a replacement for the old man (lrreplacable) ...

Its mad, we had access to cheap rented land beside the grazing block for years, and with the quota and my dads age that land never got pushed anywhere near its limit, and it got sold earlier this year to a tillage farmer, only a year before the quota goes. I really could have massively increased production if I had all that as a milking block, but I guess thats life ha.

whelan2

Timmaay wrote: »

Its mad, we had access to cheap rented land beside the grazing block for years, and with the quota and my dads age that land never got pushed anywhere near its limit, and it got sold earlier this year to a tillage farmer, only a year before the quota goes. I really could have massively increased production if I had all that as a milking block, but I guess thats life ha.

no point overstretching yourself on repayments for that land, better off as you are, work with what you have

frazzledhome

Timmaay wrote: »

Its mad, we had access to cheap rented land beside the grazing block for years, and with the quota and my dads age that land never got pushed anywhere near its limit, and it got sold earlier this year to a tillage farmer, only a year before the quota goes. I really could have massively increased production if I had all that as a milking block, but I guess thats life ha.

Dead right that's life. Keep your eyes and ears open and the right place will present itself. You are right to get the farm and soil up to snuff before expanding. If you are seen to be doing a good job people will notice, some will do all in their power to drag you down but a few important ones will notice and that's when opportunity knocks.

Around here things have changed from landlords scalping people to them picking their clients. It's now the same few that are doing the business with landlords.

kevthegaff

Ive picked up 25 acres down the road for replacements, my plan is extend calving shed this year, next year extend cubicle shed to 135 cubicles. Maybe in the next 5 years- new milking parlour 18-20 units and milk 120 cows. Fencing is nearly completed, water still has a bit to go, currently drinking out of river. Reseeding/drainage will also be a priority. Id hope to be set up comfortably when im 35. Loans are completed within 2 years but these will be added to with the upgrading of facilities

whelan2

kevthegaff wrote: »

Ive picked up 25 acres down the road for replacements, my plan is extend calving shed this year, next year extend cubicle shed to 135 cubicles. Maybe in the next 5 years- new milking parlour 18-20 units and milk 120 cows. Fencing is nearly completed, water still has a bit to go, currently drinking out of river. Reseeding/drainage will also be a priority. Id hope to be set up comfortably when im 35. Loans are completed within 2 years but these will be added to with the upgrading of facilities

fair play kev, was wondering is it better to do as you are doing, paying for everything while you are single/ no family. It would be a lot less stress when you are older.

Greengrass1

I'm only young yet but have loads of idea's going around in my head but main plan is to increase numbers to Max I can before I'm 30.
Have a lot if slurry storage to put in as I have little to none.
We've taken 100ac this year on a long term lease for heifers and silage so the home block isn't under pressure and that we would get a lot of reseeding done.
If we hadn't of taken the ground a lot of that money would have gone on meal or silage so it was the best option.
It will be tough for a year until we get our feet under us better but I don't mind that and either do the parents.
Well able to push up to 90-95 cows next year but I think I'll stick nearer 80 and do a bit of cleaning up.

Big tillage farmer who has 150 ac around me 50 of which I could get to as of now and the other 100 has 40ac between us and it has told me and my father that him and and is brother have ideas about going into dairy. So there's options there but I don't think I'm ready for that scale for a good few years.

All in I will be going to double numbers eventually whether its all spring or split will be decided further down the line.

But lots of investment needed is the biggest thing

Timmaay

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I'm only young yet but have loads of idea's going around in my head but main plan is to increase numbers to Max I can before I'm 30.

You'll be there by the time your 25 :P, aim to have a 2nd farm by 30 ha!

Greengrass1

Timmaay wrote: »

You'll be there by the time your 25 :P, aim to have a 2nd farm by 30 ha!

Its possible but the bank managers will want to be very care free with money which won't happen for another while

kevthegaff

Timmaay wrote: »

You'll be there by the time your 25 :P, aim to have a 2nd farm by 30 ha!

I was always mad to setup on another farm, but between rent prices and enough going on i wont be doing it id say

Timmaay

I don't think you will need huge access to alot more funds, 4/5years is a decent length of time for you to grow quite naturally, ie grow without massive extra borrowings. I'd almost say the oppose in your case, where your dad has borrowed to buy the land, you need to ramp up production as quickly as cashflow etc will allow to have the output to pay for the borrowings. Alot more variables to it than that I know, you need to be consistently growing your 14tons/ha of grass before you can really push the SR, alongside cowlanes, water etc etc.

Timmaay

kevthegaff wrote: »

I was always mad to setup on another farm, but between rent prices and enough going on i wont be doing it id say

Yeh I probably wont bother either, other than the likes of equality stake if someone was looking for it, well having said that I'd keep an open mind, you never ever know what opportunity might pop up when you least expect it. Buying land to setup another farm would be an utter no no unless the price was like 5k/acre for good land ha!

Greengrass1

Timmaay wrote: »

I don't think you will need huge access to alot more funds, 4/5years is a decent length of time for you to grow quite naturally, ie grow without massive extra borrowings. I'd almost say the oppose in your case, where your dad has borrowed to buy the land, you need to ramp up production as quickly as cashflow etc will allow to have the output to pay for the borrowings. Alot more variables to it than that I know, you need to be consistently growing your 14tons/ha of grass before you can really push the SR, alongside cowlanes, water etc etc.

Ye I think my slurry starage is the mist important on the list. If I had slurry I'd grow more grass to I'd say.
Will be costing 25k to put a tank in for 120 cows

visatorro

im not goin to lift a pile of money off a dirty shower of bankers for them to turn around and strangle me in years when milk price drops. feck it, im debt free and doin alright. i dont need or want to double numbers. i dont think its a lack of ambition or anything but if 80/90 cows cant rear a family then whats the point!

Greengrass1

visatorro wrote: »

im not goin to lift a pile of money off a dirty shower of bankers for them to turn around and strangle me in years when milk price drops. feck it, im debt free and doin alright. i dont need or want to double numbers. i dont think its a lack of ambition or anything but if 80/90 cows cant rear a family then whats the point!

Yep true but I will need two incomes here in a few yrs. Mine and my parents

visatorro

not being smart but what happens when he retires? will you reduce numbers? or will you hire someone to help you. im certainly not critising anyone on here but i sometimes dont understand why people expand just to pay someone to work for them. if you get what i mean

whelan2

visatorro wrote: »

not being smart but what happens when he retires? will you reduce numbers? or will you hire someone to help you. im certainly not critising anyone on here but i sometimes dont understand why people expand just to pay someone to work for them. if you get what i mean

yes and the other point is where will the workers come from?

Greengrass1

visatorro wrote: »

not being smart but what happens when he retires? will you reduce numbers? or will you hire someone to help you. im certainly not critising anyone on here but i sometimes dont understand why people expand just to pay someone to work for them. if you get what i mean

Will prob get some one to help in spring I'd say. Lad in my discussion group milk a good few cows just has help in the spring his father does a bit though too.
Even at retiring my parents will still need money.
They might as well enjoy there retirement

Timmaay

GG whats your milking block again, 120acres? That will run 130 cows or so, with a tidy spring system, auto drafing, and contracting out all machinary work should be fine with one labour unit, and the help in spring as ya said. I don't know your dad, but if he is like most dads don't expect him to walk away from the farm when he "retires" ha, he'll be hopefully there to give a hand for years to come. The only other thing I'd say is their retirement fund is largely their issue now, and they really should be saving heavy now, them being dependent on you and the farm in their retirement is a dangerous game, what would they do if something happened to you!! Ok all I'm saying is its never simple, but your really do need to bash out things as such with your folks and get it in writing what the agreement is and where the both of yous stand moving forward!

Greengrass1

Timmaay wrote: »

GG whats your milking block again, 120acres? That will run 130 cows or so, with a tidy spring system, auto drafing, and contracting out all machinary work should be fine with one labour unit, and the help in spring as ya said. I don't know your dad, but if he is like most dads don't expect him to walk away from the farm when he "retires" ha, he'll be hopefully there to give a hand for years to come. The only other thing I'd say is their retirement fund is largely their issue now, and they really should be saving heavy now, them being dependent on you and the farm in their retirement is a dangerous game, what would they do if something happened to you!! Ok all I'm saying is its never simple, but your really do need to bash out things as such with your folks and get it in writing what the agreement is and where the both of yous stand moving forward!

Ye its around that. I'll hold 120 mind any way but I'll try stock higher and see how it goes.

Were working on that succession planning at the moment. It's tough stuff and a hard subject and not very simple. Will take a year any way

Timmaay

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Ye its around that. I'll hold 120 mind any way but I'll try stock higher and see how it goes.

Were working on that succession planning at the moment. It's tough stuff and a hard subject and not very simple. Will take a year any way

It never is ha, having another family member you both trust to join in the discussions can definitely help.

benjydagg

Timmaay wrote: »

Its mad, we had access to cheap rented land beside the grazing block for years, and with the quota and my dads age that land never got pushed anywhere near its limit, and it got sold earlier this year to a tillage farmer, only a year before the quota goes. I really could have massively increased production if I had all that as a milking block, but I guess thats life ha.

There will be lots of us middle aged farmers to graze the followers for you big dairy farmers. Don't bother tying up capital in land, contract grazing is the way forward.

Greengrass1

benjydagg wrote: »

There will be lots of us middle aged farmers to graze the followers for you big dairy farmers. Don't bother tying up capital in land, contract grazing is the way forward.

If ye can find them. Farmers around me are too proud to be seen looking a after some else's stock.
Don't know if I'd trust any one around here with my heifers l. Most only ever had a dozen or two cattle and never let them out till April and let them roam over the 100ac.


A lot of older generation farmers here or there all into horses

mahoney_j

Greengrass1 wrote: »

If ye can find them. Farmers around me are too proud to be seen looking a after some else's stock.
Don't know if I'd trust any one around here with my heifers l. Most only ever had a dozen or two cattle and never let them out till April and let them roam over the 100ac.


A lot of older generation farmers here or there all into horses

I agree ,cobtract rearing is sonething that really interests me but finding someone that will do them as good as I am at the moment is proving problematic.heifers need to hit targets from day 1 and calve down in good condition ready to motor at 24/26 months

benjydagg

Greengrass1 wrote: »

If ye can find them. Farmers around me are too proud to be seen looking a after some else's stock.
Don't know if I'd trust any one around here with my heifers l. Most only ever had a dozen or two cattle and never let them out till April and let them roam over the 100ac.


A lot of older generation farmers here or there all into horses

i'm 49. 2 years to run in REPS, then I hope to do a 7 year lease with a dairy farmer. North Tipp

mf240

Ya I'm beside myself with excitement.
It's not like every other commodity in the world which is subject to market forces or supply and demand. Seemingly you can produce milk as you want and the price won't ever fall.

Good old paddy farmer sure as long as you have more cows than your neighbour and the farm looks well from the road sure that's all that matters.

stop thelights

I was just reading in the farm exam there that china is slowing down big time. Exports were down 18% last month and they added something like 30 trillion to the world debt in the last 5years. Going forward the key is not to over stretch finaically hopefully china can bounce and kept things ticking along!

Greengrass1

mahoney_j wrote: »

I agree ,cobtract rearing is sonething that really interests me but finding someone that will do them as good as I am at the moment is proving problematic.heifers need to hit targets from day 1 and calve down in good condition ready to motor at 24/26 months

If I could find someone who will look after them well I'd be more than happy to pay a good price.
If not it will mean I'll have to take more land eventually and hire some one to help me. And stretching myself more.
Its just a question if who will do it. Mostly sucklers around here so if I did get someone Like that they would have to be educated a good bit.
Its not a question of competing with neighbours its meeting your own goals. Sone have met there's but I haven't as I'm only starting out.

larrymiller

Greengrass1 wrote: »

If I could find someone who will look after them well I'd be more than happy to pay a good price.
If not it will mean I'll have to take more land eventually and hire some one to help me. And stretching myself more.
Its just a question if who will do it. Mostly sucklers around here so if I did get someone Like that they would have to be educated a good bit.
Its not a question of competing with neighbours its meeting your own goals. Sone have met there's but I haven't as I'm only starting out.

What would be a good price? Or what is it decided on?
Also how would it work having your cattle on my farm with my cattle. (Obviously not mixed but you get the idea