What am I doing wrong?

TheShizz

whupdedo wrote: »

What exactly are you using it for ?

Rebuilding a brick wall.

whupdedo

TheShizz wrote: »

Rebuilding a brick wall.

Well you will need it nice and workable so a little extra plas will do no harm, just be careful not to overdo it

TheShizz

Looks way better in pictures than it does in real life, the f*cking Georgia Salpa of mortar here.

whupdedo

TheShizz wrote: »

Rebuilding a brick wall.

Well you will need it nice and workable so a little extra plas will do no harm, just be careful not to overdo it

whupdedo

TheShizz wrote: »

Looks way better in pictures than it does in real life, the f*cking Georgia Salpa of mortar here.

Looks like it needs a little drying up, mix the dry stuff in the tub up with it and see what you come up with

TheShizz

I've given up for today mate. I don't understand why I can't do this to be honest.

Paulie Gualtieri

its all about what sand you use , builders sand should be like flour . soft and not grainy , grainy is plasterers sand. then a cap full of mortar mix for a small amount .

you can use a bit of washing up liquid in place of mortar mix. but beware it does weaken the mortar.

TheShizz

Why did the bloke tell me to get plastering sand? You're right, it is grainy as f*ck. So were the pre-mix bags.

Paulie Gualtieri

TheShizz wrote: »

Why did the bloke tell me to get plastering sand? You're right, it is grainy as f*ck. So were the pre-mix bags.

Was he the one selling it by any chance?

The reason rough grainy sand isn't as good is that it doesn't slide off the trowel . Which in turn makes the building slower and more awkward. And you can't play / push it around on a block / brick like when using proper floury sand / cement , instead its just like a sticky blob of sand.

TheShizz

So, basically I could mess around with all my previous mixes for two days straight and I still wouldn't have the clay-type mix that I need?

Well, the sh*t that I've been coming up with over the last week has definitely been falling off the trowel, but I'm prepared to ignore that part of your post and put all of my stock in the theory that building sand will help me produce the clay-type mortar that I really, really want.

Would I be right in saying that there's different types of mortar? The messy stuff I've been producing all day is one type, whereas the clay, doughy stuff is simply a different type?

Not going to lie, I was feeling like a beaten man but now I want to get back on the horse and try my luck with building sand.

Paulie Gualtieri

TheShizz wrote: »

So, basically I could mess around with all my previous mixes for two days straight and I still wouldn't have the clay-type mix that I need?

Well, the sh*t that I've been coming up with over the last week has definitely been falling off the trowel, but I'm prepared to ignore that part of your post and put all of my stock in the theory that building sand will help me produce the clay-type mortar that I really, really want.

Would I be right in saying that there's different types of mortar? The messy stuff I've been producing all day is one type, whereas the clay, doughy stuff is simply a different type?

Not going to lie, I was feeling like a beaten man but now I want to get back on the horse and try my luck with building sand.

To be honest I think the are different types but
All I can tell you is i used the one brand of cement on sites for years and the quality of the mix always came down to the sand . but you do need the mortarsizer (any brand) to make it playable.

whupdedo

You would make mortor for bricks out of the sand your using, but ideally you need a mixer and would use more cement and plas to try and get it right, get the soft stuff and start again, if that
Doesn't work ill go and do it for you

TheShizz

If I wanted to simply re-build the wall then yeah I could have easily used the consistency I found today. I used that early last week on six bricks and they're very, very solid, but it looks like sh*t.

This is the type I'm after:

whupdedo

TheShizz wrote: »

If I wanted to simply re-build the wall then yeah I could have easily used the consistency I found today. I used that early last week on six bricks and they're very, very solid, but it looks like sh*t.

This is the type I'm after:

Whereabouts are you living ?

Paulie Gualtieri

TheShizz wrote: »

If I wanted to simply re-build the wall then yeah I could have easily used the consistency I found today. I used that early last week on six bricks and they're very, very solid, but it looks like sh*t.

This is the type I'm after:

That's a fairly heavy dry looking mix , you'd want tough wrists for that ,

Also forgot to say if you get the right sand and the mix you want make sure you replicate as in exact quantities as you want the same look over all.

TheShizz

whupdedo wrote: »

Whereabouts are you living ?

Rathfarnham.

I know what you're going to say: you're going to very kindly offer to do it for me, or you'll give me the number of a professional. And I'd massively appreciate both offers, but I'm far too stubborn to pawn this off on anyone else. It would be an admission of defeat in my head, and we can't be having that.

I spent most of a day two weeks ago chiseling away at the old cement in preparation for laying fresh mortar down. I've paid for all of the sh*t. In short, I've invested both financially and emotionally in getting this done, and I want to be the one to do it.

TheShizz

Paulie Gualtieri wrote: »

That's a fairly heavy dry looking mix , you'd want tough wrists for that ,

Also forgot to say if you get the right sand and the mix you want make sure you replicate as in exact quantities as you want the same look over all.

It's the right type though, isn't it? It's the type of mortar that sticks to your trowel when you turn it upside down, the type that doesn't drip down the walls when you apply it on the course of bricks.

whupdedo

TheShizz wrote: »

Rathfarnham.

I know what you're going to say: you're going to very kindly offer to do it for me, or you'll give me the number of a professional. And I'd massively appreciate both offers, but I'm far too stubborn to pawn this off on anyone else. It would be an admission of defeat in my head, and we can't be having that.

I spent most of a day two weeks ago chiseling away at the old cement in preparation for laying fresh mortar down. I've paid for all of the sh*t. In short, I've invested both financially and emotionally in getting this done, and I want to be the one to do it.

No. I won't go near it your not far from roadstone on the belgard road, they sell really good creamy mortor for bricklaying, they sell it in any quantity you want, I have often used it and the quality is always bang on, it lasts for 2 days and hardens up after 4 days

Paulie Gualtieri

TheShizz wrote: »

Rathfarnham.

I know what you're going to say: you're going to very kindly offer to do it for me, or you'll give me the number of a professional. And I'd massively appreciate both offers, but I'm far too stubborn to pawn this off on anyone else. It would be an admission of defeat in my head, and we can't be having that.

I spent most of a day two weeks ago chiseling away at the old cement in preparation for laying fresh mortar down. I've paid for all of the sh*t. In short, I've invested both financially and emotionally in getting this done, and I want to be the one to do it.

I understand totally, The feeling of "I made that" / fixed that. Don't give up , you'll get there in the end.

TheShizz

whupdedo wrote: »

No. I won't go near it your not far from roadstone on the belgard road, they sell really good creamy mortor for bricklaying, they sell it in any quantity you want, I have often used it and the quality is always bang on, it lasts for 2 days and hardens up after 4 days

Oh, well I'm not too proud to take your advice on that brother.

Thank you.

Paulie Gualtieri

TheShizz wrote: »

It's the right type though, isn't it? It's the type of mortar that sticks to your trowel when you turn it upside down, the type that doesn't drip down the walls when you apply it on the course of bricks.

I could be wrong but it looks very cement heavy. No mortar should drip. if it does its not mixed right. you will get a bit of mortar slipping at times but it should never dribble and ruin the bricks.

keep a large wet block brush or paint brush with you to dab down anywhere the loose mortar touches . if you don't it will dry and ruin the brick .

TheShizz

I saw the tutorial from that picture I posted and the bloke's ratio was the standard one shovel of cement to three cement.

And yes my first mix dripped down the walls and on to the ground unfortunately, which is why I'm waiting until I get the proper mix before going back.

WilyCoyote

TheShizz wrote: »

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=iznyfs%3E&s=8#.UzRjA6h_vW5

This is my latest attempt to make mortar but it's just not working for me.

I'm on the verge of having a nervous breakdown because this is my third day trying to produce the clay-type mortar necessary for building jobs.

WilyCoyote wrote: »

The sand in your video is too sharp ........ almost like screeding sand.

TheShizz wrote: »

Why did the bloke tell me to get plastering sand? You're right, it is grainy as f*ck. So were the pre-mix bags.

Read below. You had not mentioned what type of building work you were doing. So I posted, "If you are doing outside rendering .............".

WilyCoyote wrote: »

..................................................................................................................................................................................................
If you're doing outside rendering you need washed plastering sand. Then add some Waterproofer to the mix - this does exactly the same with the added bonus of stabilizing and impeding the suction in the scratch coat. But always follow the manufacturer's instructions. Good luck!

Hope it works out right for you.

TheShizz

Sorry mate I didn't realise what 'rendering' meant, but I wasn't referring to you as "the bloke"; I was referring to the man in the builders providers who sold me the plastering sand incase you thought I was taking a swipe at you.

handandy

dont use fairy liquid as it will come back to haunt you in the end. the plasterer who came back to finish off the bare back and side walls of my house used it and the external plaster developed cracks . at first i thought i had a foundation problem so i had a structural engineer back out to view the cracks . he became suspicious when i mentioned that the plasterer had used fairy liquid in his mix when plastering the wall . the builder came back out and a hole was dug down by the foundation and then a track was cut down along the cracks in the plaster to see if the foundation had sunk and the blockwork of the house was cracked too . turns out all was fine which was a massive relief to me . both the structural engineer and the new plasterer put the cracks down to the old plasterer taking shortcuts and using the fairy liquid . the new plasterer scraped off all the old plaster and he replastered the walls and all has been fine ever since . the new plasterer said to me that the best way to do a job is to do it right and do it once with no silly shortcuts .

handandy

TheShizz wrote: »

Looks way better in pictures than it does in real life, the f*cking Georgia Salpa of mortar here.

you really need to clean up the mess off your pavers asap otherwize you will stain them for good . use a bigger 8 x 4 sheet of ply or osb board if you are mixing mortar or put down a large waterproof ground sheet around the area before mixing your mortar or plaster to protect your pavers .

handandy

you could just pop up to smiths builders merchants in walkinstown and get a clear small bag or pre made ready mixed mortar out of their large silo . speak to sean or john , explain your dilema and they will sort you out . http://www.smithsbuildingsupplies.com/SpecialOffers

looksee

Look, I may be completely out of order here, but I have seen no reference to how the OP is actually mixing the mortar? If you are using a machine you can chuck all the ingredients in but if you are doing it on a board you need to be making a volcano shape, put the liquid in the middle and 'lift and chop' the dry stuff into it. Trying to do it in a bowl or a bucket sounds a bit like making a pudding, and it will be too soft as you will need too much liquid.

I have only ever made up small amounts of cement, but never had any problems, but I realise I may be talking out the top of my head here!

slimjimmc

looksee wrote: »

Look, I may be completely out of order here, but I have seen no reference to how the OP is actually mixing the mortar? If you are using a machine you can chuck all the ingredients in but if you are doing it on a board you need to be making a volcano shape, put the liquid in the middle and 'lift and chop' the dry stuff into it. Trying to do it in a bowl or a bucket sounds a bit like making a pudding, and it will be too soft as you will need too much liquid.

I have only ever made up small amounts of cement, but never had any problems, but I realise I may be talking out the top of my head here!

Agreed. This video shows how to hand mix with a shovel but for smaller quantities you can scale it down to spade or a trowel. Make sure all the dry ingredients are well mixed before wetting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVv_FlFbRqQ

TheShizz

I've dreamt about this day. Is that or is it not some quality mortar? Well, it's not perfect, because it isn't right for the wall just yet, but I'm damn close.

To answer my own question of "what am I doing wrong?" - the answer is the sand. For the life of me I can't understand why a) the pre-mix mortar bag was comprised of sharp sand and cement and b) why the bloke in the builders providers suggested sharp, plastering sand when I bought both separate.

As a few people have mentioned, the key is builders sand. I knew as soon as I wet the mix that I was on the right track. The world is my oyster now.