Liveline Thread 27/03/14 to date

cream_cracker

P. Breathnach wrote: »

That might be true, but it does not justify condemning all of the community.

I have encountered travellers (on the road. settled, and part-settled) that seem to me to be law-abiding and not at all anti-social. It is unfair that they be tarred with the same brush that is applied to other travellers whose behaviour is less worthy. Not only is it unfair: it is counter-productive, because the properly-behaved travellers are not given a chance to prove themselves good citizens and good neighbours.

well it sounds like you can afford to be philosophical , those who experienced things at the coalface with travellers are less enthusiastic about the claim that its only a handful who tarnish the communitys reputation

way i see it , its travellers who have a lot of making up to do , not the rest of us

eventually people will get sick of the arrogance of the PC liberals who claim rightousness on this issue

vicwatson

Nody wrote: »

Correct and I helped drive it in that direction. Lets hope tomorrow is a less heated topic .

//MOD
While the topic of racism and travellers is a very important one lets try to limit the discussion going forward to the show itself and limit the turn off topic.
//MOD

Hope you gave yourself a warning Nody

Dan Jaman

cream_cracker wrote: »

well it sounds like you can afford to be philosophical , those who experienced things at the coalface with travellers are less enthusiastic about the claim that its only a handful who tarnish the communitys reputation

way i see it , its travellers who have a lot of making up to do , not the rest of us

eventually people will get sick of the arrogance of the PC liberals who claim rightousness on this issue

Hey, I ain't no cream-puff PC up-myself lefty liberal - take that back you swine! [1]
I believe in calling a cunard a cunard, and I don't care if he/she/it is a liner or not. It makes no difference to me what shipyard they come from - it's what they do /act like /behave that counts.

[1] I sometimes have real trouble keeping my inner Nazi under control - it would give you the heebies if you knew my real opinions in the deep dark hours, sometimes.

cream_cracker

Dan Jaman wrote: »

Hey, I ain't no cream-puff PC up-myself lefty liberal - take that back you swine! [1]
I believe in calling a cunard a cunard, and I don't care if he/she/it is a liner or not. It makes no difference to me what shipyard they come from - it's what they do /act like /behave that counts.

[1] I sometimes have real trouble keeping my inner Nazi under control - it would give you the heebies if you knew my real opinions in the deep dark hours, sometimes.

my post quoted breathnach

Dan Jaman

cream_cracker wrote: »

my post quoted breathnach

Fair enough. I don't mean that in a racist way, of course.

Nody

vicwatson wrote: »

Hope you gave yourself a warning Nody

Two slaps over the head and early to bed!

goose2005

ThisRegard wrote: »

Every family have little fights. Understatement right there.

Yeah I can remember when my cousin forget to send my mam a thank you card after she sent a gift to the newborn. When we visited them at Christmas my mam was slightly cold to my cousin and didn't help her with the tea. So basically the same as a slash-hook and baseball bat riot with broken legs.

goose2005

Nody wrote: »

It's racism if you assign a group a certain attribute and say most/everyone from the group has it or because John is from the group he clearly will have the attribute as well. If you on the other hand say John has the attribute because he did X, Y, Z and don't talk about the group as whole it's not racism. The problem most people have is that they have limited interaction with a small sub set of any given group and assign that behaviour to the whole group based on their experience in daily discusion.

As an example. All travellers are thieves = racism. Travellers are over represented in jail (with suitable data to back this up not being a fluke incident) is not racism as long as you don't take it another step and claim that they are thieves because of it. Now some people will claim that the second example is racism as well (and it may be on another level in terms of judges putting more in jail along the lines of the discussion of non white americans in USA) but the claim on it's own is not racist as it's simply stating a fact that can be backed up. The problem is the grey area between the two and people on both side trying to redraw the line in their favour during arguments.

But travellers aren't a race. You could make similar comments about people who live on council estates in poor parts of Dublin. It wouldn't be racist, but it would be failing to take account of the economic and social situation.

P. Breathnach

cream_cracker wrote: »

well it sounds like you can afford to be philosophical , those who experienced things at the coalface with travellers are less enthusiastic about the claim that its only a handful who tarnish the communitys reputation

way i see it , its travellers who have a lot of making up to do , not the rest of us

eventually people will get sick of the arrogance of the PC liberals who claim rightousness on this issue

I think I am being accused of being a PC liberal. That's okay by me. I think cream_cracker sees it as a put-down. That's a mistaken view.

I never suggested that it was only a handful who tarnish the community's reputation; I didn't even challenge cream_cracker's claim that "their is a chronic level of criminality and anti social activity within that community"; I let that go, because numbers have nothing to do with the point I am making. So long as there are good people in the traveller community, whether it be 90% of them, or 50%, or 10%, it is unfair on those people to condemn travellers as a group, because you condemn the good along with the less good and the out-and-out bad.

milewidehead

Want to place a small wager as to what the L-L will be about to-day? And possibly tomorrow?.
(Until Uncle Joe gets the throat-slash sign from the "roight-on" P.C. liberal agenda producers in the R.T.E.).

It's no accident, or coincidence, that the majority of callers to any radio station on the subject of Travellers usually have a distinctly negative bias. Prejudice is often formed from experience, and bitter experiences with Travellers seem to be the norm, at least from the "settled" community's point of view.

Nody

milewidehead wrote: »

Want to place a small wager as to what the L-L will be about to-day? And possibly tomorrow?.

Not really up for the wager as I know the topic is heated to say the least and tend to die down very slowly. I'll have the dubious pleasure of trying to mod one of the fastest moving threads on the forum at the time; I also understand the general outrage (and I've seen my fair share of both sides of the coin in terms of behaviour) but that does not change the policy or what I need to do though.

All I ask is for people to keep the charter in mind and report what ever they think is against the charter and I'll have a look at it directly while going through the thread as fast as reasonble possible to snip things as well . Oh and when I do make a mistake (I had a few yesterday already;you know who you are ) don't hesitate to tell me why you disagree / think I was wrong via PM. I don't guarantee I'll change my oppinion on your post but I'm far from perfect and I WILL make wrong calls.

ThisRegard

hotmail.com wrote: »

Brenda Power has become the Irish version of Katie Hopkins - making money off trolling. Her articles are often filled with hate and this article was no different.

If there was a march against Travellers tomorrow, 100,000 people would show up. March against bankers, em well maybe 2,000.

You're wildly over estimating the power and influence of such articles.

And I don't think your comparison is valid, Hopkins is wildly derided and made fun of for her views, I think Power would have a majority of people agreeing with what she said, basing on what I see in the various social media sites and comments section in more established newspapers

RayM wrote: »

And if, like Brenda Power, you deny that they are a distinct ethnic group, ask yourself why?

Brenda Power is not denying they're a distinct ethnic group, the state are.

CountyHurler

Why do publicans not want Travellers on their premises?
Is it because a) they are racist or b) because they are afraid of the trouble and damage being caused to their premises.

Why do hotels not want to host Traveller weddings (even though they are most likely to be paid in cash) ?
Is it a) because they are racist or b) are they worried about their premises being damaged.

And why do people get nervous when Travellers pull up illegally near where they live.
Is it a) because they are racist or b) because they are pretty confident that the crime rate is about to rise, and that the area occupied will be left in a mess.

Irish people in general will give people a fair chance. For example, there is a Traveller family that pull up (albeit illegally) near the motorway junction close to where I am living. They dont bother anybody, and they keep the area clean. The local people dont hugely care that they are parked illegally because they dont bother people. If all Travellers behaved as they do, there would be no issue. But they dont.

People have just been bitten one too many times by Travellers, and are pretty sick of listening to their representatives playing the poor mouth in TV3 documentaries, The Vincent Brown Show, Global Village etc etc and failing to acknowledge that the reason people have a problem with them is because of their behaviour, not because of their ethnic origin.

hullaballoo

Moderator: there has been absolutely no attempt to stick to Nody's warning about.

This is the final warning - we are going back on topic or cards will result.

Edit: there has been one attempt, acknowledged.

CountyHurler

Did anybody go to the mass for the children that died in 1916?

Odyssey 2005

No room in the chapel. Duffys ego filled the place.

neris

CountyHurler wrote: »

Did anybody go to the mass for the children that died in 1916?

well done well done back on topic

snubbleste

13:46 and no Liveline

Lapin

Plug already !!

DellyBelly

Another traveller section today....

snubbleste

DellyBelly wrote: »

Another traveller section today....

dublin airport?

DellyBelly

No stealing

pc7

Bingo! poor Nody!

Harry Angstrom

Travellers :eek:

Pavee Point man back on Line 2....

snubbleste

Lapin

Fair play to him for coming straight out with it.

None of this certain section of society nonsense.

DellyBelly

Boom!!!! I knew it. When there is a story about a robbery you can guess who it involves...but it's their culture..sigh

risteard7

Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe Joe joe

bigroad

At last a straight talker.

Lapin

Well said caller.