Partridge

Stonehall9

Looking to buy partridges for a shoot this season, anybody with any names or numbers would be greatly appreciated. Also anyone with any info or tips I'd love to hear , this is our first time getting into them.

pedroeibar1

Stonehall9 wrote: »

...... anyone with any info or tips I'd love to hear , this is our first time getting into them.

Tried partridge twice, a near failure the first time, a total failure the second. Bought in the birds young, built them a special pen, kept some back as calling birds, did everything by the book but they failed. They seem to be very weather sensitive, hate the damp/wet. Also from what I’ve heard it is even more difficult to establish them on a shoot, as the weather at hatching-time is critical (insect hatch, etc). Unless you have some good hills to push them off they are not great fliers. Several of the commercial shoots I know have dropped them due to bad results.

Stonehall9

Pedro, when you say they failed, did they die or did they just not get off the ground to fly for shooting? Was it in a driven shoot type of scenario you had them for or was it walked up rough type shooting ?

pedroeibar1

Stonehall9 wrote: »

Pedro, when you say they failed, did they die or did they just not get off the ground to fly for shooting? Was it in a driven shoot type of scenario you had them for or was it walked up rough type shooting ?

That Shoot was mainly walk-up but we had two bits of ground that could be driven – depended on some of the guys bringing wives/girlfriends/children to beat! I've since moved on from there but we ruled out partridge in a new Shoot that a few of us put together. The partridge died, and in large numbers; every time I went to their pen there would be several dead. After they had settled in and we took the roof off, we probably had about 50% mortality before the season opened and we shot about 10% by the end. We usually averaged mid 30's % return on our pheasant (melanistic and ring-necks). Partridge are not great fliers as they usually stay low, so they are best driven off higher ground. They are hard to hit if you are used to shooting pheasant!

Stonehall9

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

That Shoot was mainly walk-up but we had two bits of ground that could be driven – depended on some of the guys bringing wives/girlfriends/children to beat! I've since moved on from there but we ruled out partridge in a new Shoot that a few of us put together. The partridge died, and in large numbers; every time I went to their pen there would be several dead. After they had settled in and we took the roof off, we probably had about 50% mortality before the season opened and we shot about 10% by the end. We usually averaged mid 30's % return on our pheasant (melanistic and ring-necks). Partridge are not great fliers as they usually stay low, so they are best driven off higher ground. They are hard to hit if you are used to shooting pheasant!

What kind of area was the pen in, was it open field or in wooded area? Did ye have the grey leg or the red leg? From what I've been told they are suppose to be hardy birds so I'm kinda surprised to hear that

richiedel123

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

That Shoot was mainly walk-up but we had two bits of ground that could be driven – depended on some of the guys bringing wives/girlfriends/children to beat! I've since moved on from there but we ruled out partridge in a new Shoot that a few of us put together. The partridge died, and in large numbers; every time I went to their pen there would be several dead. After they had settled in and we took the roof off, we probably had about 50% mortality before the season opened and we shot about 10% by the end. We usually averaged mid 30's % return on our pheasant (melanistic and ring-necks). Partridge are not great fliers as they usually stay low, so they are best driven off higher ground. They are hard to hit if you are used to shooting pheasant!

I find them very hardy birds I have some still penned up at the minute and never lost 1 in all the rain over Xmas and the pen got fairly mucky in fairness. I had to start putting in straw to try keep it dry. The only way I seen high numbers dying like that was the birds getting spooked and flying up and breaking their necks. I find once one gets spooked they all get up and fly so best off not goin around them too much if possible

pedroeibar1

Stonehall9 wrote: »

What kind of area was the pen in, was it open field or in wooded area? Did ye have the grey leg or the red leg? From what I've been told they are suppose to be hardy birds so I'm kinda surprised to hear that

We had redlegs/French. We built a small pen around a bit of hedgerow that we lowered/cut back so that we could ‘roof’ it . On one side there was a field that also held pheasant although their pen was quite far away. The field had a good-sized cover crop (kale) along one edge and a grain feeder and on the other side (back of the pen) there was scrub/briars leading into about an acre of mixed woodland. The pen was mainly south facing, so it was ‘warm’ . We also found that Redlegs tended to run ahead of the beaters rather than sit and then flush. I agree with Rich123 that they are easily spooked. I think that none of the Wicklow Shoots have them any more but I'm open to correction on that.

TriggerPL

Partridge were used in the Irish retriever championship shoot in youghal this year so some shoots are using them .

We have been using red leg partridge for 8 years now at our dog trails and are a great success ,

First u need to keep them warm and dry if you have an out doors pen then u need to make a box that they can escape the weather in to this box is a great way of catching them up to if ya put a door on it ,

Roof , u need to net the roof about a foot lower then the ceiling , partridge when they get spooked have the tendency to jump straight up banging there heads off the roof .

Disease ! U need to put dosing in there water !! And keep own clean and dry as you can .

Call up box , we build one and it works fantastic , but you need about 10 birds in it calling , we realised 50 birds shot 22 and caught up 25 and seen one getting taken by a hawk ! Out side of ur call up box out 3 or 4 round Larsen walk in traps and put food in them . Check every evening just after dark until u think u have all collected you can get . Don't leave them in a Larsen trap over night or something will have a very easy dinner .

Hunting them , we normal release them day or two before in the morning to give them day light to get use to the surrounding and we scatter some feed , sometime they sit , or run and some times they clump together , luck of the draw.

Nice shooting bird and nice eating and questions just ask .

Ps we had no success using same method of calling with gray partridge .

Stonehall9

TriggerPL wrote: »

Partridge were used in the Irish retriever championship shoot in youghal this year so some shoots are using them .

We have been using red leg partridge for 8 years now at our dog trails and are a great success ,

First u need to keep them warm and dry if you have an out doors pen then u need to make a box that they can escape the weather in to this box is a great way of catching them up to if ya put a door on it ,

Roof , u need to net the roof about a foot lower then the ceiling , partridge when they get spooked have the tendency to jump straight up banging there heads off the roof .

Disease ! U need to put dosing in there water !! And keep own clean and dry as you can .

Call up box , we build one and it works fantastic , but you need about 10 birds in it calling , we realised 50 birds shot 22 and caught up 25 and seen one getting taken by a hawk ! Out side of ur call up box out 3 or 4 round Larsen walk in traps and put food in them . Check every evening just after dark until u think u have all collected you can get . Don't leave them in a Larsen trap over night or something will have a very easy dinner .

Hunting them , we normal release them day or two before in the morning to give them day light to get use to the surrounding and we scatter some feed , sometime they sit , or run and some times they clump together , luck of the draw.

Nice shooting bird and nice eating and questions just ask .

Ps we had no success using same method of calling with gray partridge .

Thanks trig for that, great info in that and a few of my queries answered, glad to see they were successful, we have put a good bit of effort into this so far so hopefully we get results, tell me how far from the pen did ye release them, in what kind of ground was it and how much ground were ye releasing on? How many had ye to a pen?

TriggerPL

We keep them in a shed old cow buyer , specially adapted for them we realised them onto a hi bank of a bog with few bog meadows and a forestry to one side , about 30 acres really ,

And the call up pen was at the end of the hi bank right in the middle of the land

We normally get between 150 and 200 and they don't need a really big pen ,

landkeeper2

trigger that really is a terrible admission to make on a public forum watched by thousands
that kind of carry on will be the end of rearing and releasing birds for sport !!!!! as someone who has been involved in rearing birds and sporting shooting for over thirty years i'm appalled by that
you can rant and rave as you will but that's inexcusable in my book and i'm 100% positive the npws would take a dim view of it too

Dian Cecht

TriggerPL wrote: »

Hunting them , we normal release them day or two before in the morning to give them day light to get use to the surrounding and we scatter some feed , sometime they sit , or run and some times they clump together , luck of the draw.

As Martin Callinan would say, personally I think that is disgusting not to mention unsporting to the birds.

Stonehall9

landkeeper2 wrote: »

trigger that really is a terrible admission to make on a public forum watched by thousands
that kind of carry on will be the end of rearing and releasing birds for sport !!!!! as someone who has been involved in rearing birds and sporting shooting for over thirty years i'm appalled by that
you can rant and rave as you will but that's inexcusable in my book and i'm 100% positive the npws would take a dim view of it too

Can u explain??

TriggerPL

What are you ranting on about now every this is don't with in kennel club rules and npws , and this is not for sport every Sunday , this is for trailing purposes only , and with in the laws so keep ur moral opinions to ur self as stated in forum rules .

Dian Cecht

Stonehall9 wrote: »

Can u explain??

Isn't it obvious? Hunting in this country IS in trouble if people don't realise what's wrong with what's been advocated above :rolleyes:

Dian Cecht

TriggerPL wrote: »

What are you ranting on about now every this is don't with in kennel club rules and npws , and this is not for sport every Sunday , this is for trailing purposes only , and with in the laws so keep ur moral opinions to ur self as stated in forum rules .

You stated "Hunting them" no mention of trialing :rolleyes:

landkeeper2

Stonehall9 wrote: »

Can u explain??

yes to me and a whole pile of others as you will see it's simple
releasing birds for shooting should be a sporting situation ie they should know where they are where to fly when disturbed and be fit and healthy
birds kept in a cow byre and carted out to unfamiliar ground a day or two before they are flushed into the air by a spaniel to be shot is as far from that ideal as you can get

TriggerPL

TriggerPL wrote: »

Partridge were used in the Irish retriever championship shoot in youghal this year so some shoots are using them .

We have been using red leg partridge for 8 years now at our dog trails and are a great success ,

First u need to keep them warm and dry if you have an out doors pen then u need to make a box that they can escape the weather in to this box is a great way of catching them up to if ya put a door on it ,

Roof , u need to net the roof about a foot lower then the ceiling , partridge when they get spooked have the tendency to jump straight up banging there heads off the roof .

Disease ! U need to put dosing in there water !! And keep own clean and dry as you can .

Call up box , we build one and it works fantastic , but you need about 10 birds in it calling , we realised 50 birds shot 22 and caught up 25 and seen one getting taken by a hawk ! Out side of ur call up box out 3 or 4 round Larsen walk in traps and put food in them . Check every evening just after dark until u think u have all collected you can get . Don't leave them in a Larsen trap over night or something will have a very easy dinner .

Hunting them , we normal release them day or two before in the morning to give them day light to get use to the surrounding and we scatter some feed , sometime they sit , or run and some times they clump together , luck of the draw.

Nice shooting bird and nice eating and questions just ask .

Ps we had no success using same method of calling with gray partridge .

Open ur fooking eyes and read the post not just what you want to read !!

TriggerPL

landkeeper2 wrote: »

yes to me and a whole pile of others as you will see it's simple
releasing birds for shooting should be a sporting situation ie they should know where they are where to fly when disturbed and be fit and healthy
birds kept in a cow byre and carted out to unfamiliar ground a day or two before they are flushed into the air by a spaniel to be shot is as far from that ideal as you can get

U would think that we shot them out of a cage the way ur talking , what difference is what we do compared to a driven shoot from a woods . None . And so u know what happened partridge when realised and left to there own , we releases 150 6 years ago with feeders and cover on a block of about 100 acres , with forestry . Give them 2 months and don't a count with pointers , found none out of 150 .

So what would you suggest . Like I stated already it's for trailing purposes and no law is broken and the bird are well cared for befor and after a trail .

So unless u have better ideas to supply birds let me know .

And 90 percent of our trails are on snipe and duck rarely have we to use partridge .

I'm not interested in discussing this any further . The man asked about partridge rearing and realising , I didn see u offering any advice .

And ur morals ain't welcome ere

Dian Cecht

TriggerPL wrote: »

Open ur fooking eyes and read the post not just what you want to read !!

Opened my fooking eyes and I still see same thing.

Dian Cecht

TriggerPL wrote: »

U would think that we shot them out of a cage the way ur talking , what difference is what we do compared to a driven shoot from a woods . None . And so u know what happened partridge when realised and left to there own , we releases 150 6 years ago with feeders and cover on a block of about 100 acres , with forestry . Give them 2 months and don't a count with pointers , found none out of 150 .

So what would you suggest . Like I stated already it's for trailing purposes and no law is broken and the bird are well cared for befor and after a trail .

So unless u have better ideas to supply birds let me know .

And 90 percent of our trails are on snipe and duck rarely have we to use partridge .

I'm not interested in discussing this any further . The man asked about partridge rearing and realising , I didn see u offering any advice .

And ur morals ain't welcome ere

This post just reinforces that my assumption is correct I reckon.

You may not have or welcome others shooting morals but who are you to tell us they are not welcome here?

landkeeper2

there is a huge difference between what you are doing and birds released on a driven shoot for a start all the shoots i know get their birds in june and july those birds have between then and 1st nov to learn where they are where is home where food and water are as well as grow and get fit learn how to fly properly etc

your logic is flawed just because what you released and reared one year was a disaster doesn't mean you have to resort to a crappy and unsporting method from there on in
it's actions such as you describe that get the shooting community deserved negative press ,if your posts go unchallenged then we are all tarred with the same brush , i will speak my mind and say what you describe is wrong
my morals are my morals i'm sure there are plenty that feel the same as me

Vegeta

Dian Cecht wrote: »

You stated "Hunting them" no mention of trialing :rolleyes:

Ah, he did say it was for trialling in a post at 09:36, his first on this thread and hunting does not equal shooting or killing.

Vegeta

landkeeper2 wrote: »

my morals are my morals i'm sure there are plenty that feel the same as me

Moral debate is allowable here on only a very limited basis and posters here are running a very fine line. If you wish to discuss it further my PM box is open.

landkeeper2

he brought morals into it ,maybe i should have used the word standards
what he is describing and he has posted similar before is against all i believe in as far as hunting goes
letting a bird out hours minutes before attempting to hunt flush and shoot it is a sad state of affairs and one that should be publicly condoned by true sportsmen

Dian Cecht

Vegeta wrote: »

Ah, he did say it was for trialling in a post at 09:36, his first on this thread and hunting does not equal shooting or killing.

The way I read that post is he referred to trialing & then in a new paragraph, which normally means a change in content/new idea within the post, he mentioned hunting. And in a later post he more or less admitted that they do indeed do what he stated.

TriggerPL

So just to entertain the two of ye , what would you suggest for the rearing and releasing of partridge ? In you experience ?

TriggerPL

Dian Cecht wrote: »

The way I read that post is he referred to trialing & then in a new paragraph, which normally means a change in content/new idea within the post, he mentioned hunting. And in a later post he more or less admitted that they do indeed do what he stated.

More or less ?? I either did or didn't , because ur saying I did !!

And I paragraph my posts to make them easy for people to follow .

TriggerPL

landkeeper2 wrote: »

he brought morals into it ,maybe i should have used the word standards
what he is describing and he has posted similar before is against all i believe in as far as hunting goes
letting a bird out hours minutes before attempting to hunt flush and shoot it is a sad state of affairs and one that should be publicly condoned by true sportsmen

And it looks like you can't read either I said days or two , any longer and u run the risk of weather killing them all off .

If you have better suggesting on how we can do it better I'm all ears ?? Instead of hanging on morals of something that is been done with in the laws !!

landkeeper2

TriggerPL wrote: »

So just to entertain the two of ye , what would you suggest for the rearing and releasing of partridge ? In you experience ?

very simple either buy your poults or rear them yourself , release them properly using partridge pens to let them establish a home range with drinkers and feeders and cover crops , do plenty of legal vermin control and do the job properly as many others do in this country it's not rocket science it is hard work though and the returns can be varied


of course the weather will kill them off if you release them the way your suggesting they are not hardened off your keeping them in a shed

Dian Cecht

TriggerPL wrote: »

So just to entertain the two of ye , what would you suggest for the rearing and releasing of partridge ? In you experience ?

As you stated above it doesn't work nor will it work as vast amounts of the landscape does not and never will be able to support them. Agricultural methods are making it harder & harder for wild game to survive. Ditches are being cut/removed, wetlands are being drained at an alarming rate, tillage in lots of areas is disappearing.........................

Clubs I'm in release adult pheasants in early March. Feeders are put out & topped up. Come Nov. 1st you take your chances. Duck are released on a few "protected" ponds with feeders and they either stay there & breed or move off. Come September 1st you take your chances. Snipe habitat is all but gone in my area in the last few years (mainly due to land drainage).

In my opinion, in our lifetime, game shooting as we know it will not exist.

TriggerPL

landkeeper2 wrote: »

very simple either buy your poults or rear them yourself , release them properly using partridge pens to let them establish a home range with drinkers and feeders and cover crops , do plenty of legal vermin control and do the job properly as many others do in this country it's not rocket science it is hard work though and the returns can be varied

Nope been there tryed that on my own land over a period of 5 years out side of the club , pens feeders drinkers , forestry with cover different variety of fields , 5 Larsen traps , lamped twice / three times a week , released adults reared poults realised them at all times of the years spring summers ,

Greys and red

The weather fooks them every time , the harsh reality of North Connaught land , pheasants are going well but partridge never survived . Cheers for the advice tho mayb down round the the sunny southeast or up the east coast , I've read of a few places .

And this is the reason nearly no driven shoot using them in ireland

Stonehall9

I was asking for advise , help and a bit of knowledge in relation to the partridge shoot, trigger , gave me a great deal of information in his post and very knowledgeable in relation to the keeping of the birds, if ye want to engage in a bit of keyboard boxing ye might get yere own thread folks , thanks for all the replays so far in relation to the partridge and keep them coming.
S9

TriggerPL

Dian Cecht wrote: »

As you stated above it doesn't work nor will it work as vast amounts of the landscape does not and never will be able to support them. Agricultural methods are making it harder & harder for wild game to survive. Ditches are being cut/removed, wetlands are being drained at an alarming rate, tillage in lots of areas is disappearing.........................

Clubs I'm in release adult pheasants in early March. Feeders are put out & topped up. Come Nov. 1st you take your chances. Duck are released on a few "protected" ponds with feeders and they either stay there & breed or move off. Come September 1st you take your chances. Snipe habitat is all but gone in my area in the last few years (mainly due to land drainage).

In my opinion, in our lifetime, game shooting as we know it will not exist.

Well there is something we agree on !

But I'd suggest breeding boxes for ur ducks more so then just realising them on to a pond like this I've 4 going and there a great success .

http://youtu.be/zmmB4TomIM8

http://youtu.be/CuS9fCf1Eug

Dian Cecht

Stonehall9 wrote: »

I was asking for advise , help and a bit of knowledge in relation to the partridge shoot, trigger , gave me a great deal of information in his post and very knowledgeable in relation to the keeping of the birds, if ye want to engage in a bit of keyboard boxing ye might get yere own thread folks , thanks for all the replays so far in relation to the partridge and keep them coming.
S9

:pac:

It's called debate, what the forum is about

Dian Cecht

TriggerPL wrote: »

Well there is something we agree on !

But I'd suggest breeding boxes for ur ducks more so then just realising them on to a pond like this I've 4 going and there a great success .

http://youtu.be/zmmB4TomIM8

http://youtu.be/CuS9fCf1Eug

To be honest they do very well but I'll look into those boxes

TriggerPL

Dian Cecht wrote: »

:pac:

It's called debate, what the forum is about

Yes but a debate is normally different suggesting to a question where this was just pushing of ur opinion and morals with out suggesting alternatives . So not really a debate , and it pretty much ruin a thread asking for advice and you seem to have a habit of doing that!

landkeeper2

in your opinion trigger
your system is not what's needed if anyone wants to release partridge properly for shooting it's not a functional working solution and is questionable that is why i voice my objection and will continue to do so. If you can't see the potential damage in what you are advocating the there is something wrong .


There are recognised methods of partridge release all based on much the same system all rely on the fact that they are a covey bird and have a home territory
that instinct is the key to successful release , the matter of holding them on the ground is another thing , feed cover and shelter are the most important aspects there closely followed by vermin control

Stonehall9

landkeeper2 wrote: »

in your opinion trigger
your system is not what's needed if anyone wants to release partridge properly for shooting it's not a functional working solution and is questionable that is why i voice my objection and will continue to do so. If you can't see the potential damage in what you are advocating the there is something wrong .


There are recognised methods of partridge release all based on much the same system all rely on the fact that they are a covey bird and have a home territory
that instinct is the key to successful release , the matter of holding them on the ground is another thing , feed cover and shelter are the most important aspects there closely followed by vermin control

From a lot of replies I've had the most common aspect seems to be that the partridge do not like to be spooked or have much commotion like traffic other animals and such around them, this apparently leads to a high mortality rate in the birds, it seems like a very hard thing to create an environment that can offer all those qualities in the wild. Not to mention the unpredictability of our weather.

landkeeper2

they are very flighty best description i can think of is a hand grenade with feathers on their first instinct is to fly if there is a wwall or netting in the way then it's good night

where do you want to release them , what sort of ground , tillage crops ? or just grassland

Dian Cecht

TriggerPL wrote: »

Yes but a debate is normally different suggesting to a question where this was just pushing of ur opinion and morals with out suggesting alternatives . So not really a debate , and it pretty much ruin a thread asking for advice and you seem to have a habit of doing that!

You have a few habits yourself

You have your ways & I have mine. You won't change my mind no more than I'll try & change yours. So, we'll just have to agree to disagree, most of the time

Birdnuts

Stonehall9 wrote: »

From a lot of replies I've had the most common aspect seems to be that the partridge do not like to be spooked or have much commotion like traffic other animals and such around them, this apparently leads to a high mortality rate in the birds, it seems like a very hard thing to create an environment that can offer all those qualities in the wild. Not to mention the unpredictability of our weather.

Might be worth a trip to the Partridge project at Boora to give yourself a first hand idea of the amount of habitat work and keepering required for these birds. I've been to a few talks over the years by the team there and its eye-opening the amount of man-hours and other resources required

Capercaille

Red-legged partridge are native to West/South West Europe. Their preferred habitat are rocky hillsides, dry grasslands and cultivated land (preferably extensive tillage agriculture with plenty of grassy verges for insects). They are a bird of warmer climates and don't do well in bad wet weather. They will not do well released into areas of bogs, forestry or monoculture of ryegrass.

dodderangler

Capercaille wrote: »

Red-legged partridge are native to West/South West Europe. Their preferred habitat are rocky hillsides, dry grasslands and cultivated land (preferably extensive tillage agriculture with plenty of grassy verges for insects). They are a bird of warmer climates and don't do well in bad wet weather. They will not do well released into areas of bogs, forestry or monoculture of ryegrass.

Would the same apply to quail?
At least one thread pops up every so often about quail being released.

Capercaille

dodderangler wrote: »

Would the same apply to quail?
At least one thread pops up every so often about quail being released.

Quail would prefer tillage like barley, wheat but not maize. They do well in warmer years. The tillage around Athy, Kildare is the last refuge for quail in Ireland. Releasing common quail into area with wild quail would not be recommended as the released birds can interbreed with the wild birds and the resulting offspring will often lose their migrating instincts.