Should we be worried about property bubble re-inflation?

sparky42

creedp wrote: »

Important point that's often overlooked by people who argue that house prices should be further substantially reduced. If you can't build them for the rock bottom price sought what will the long term result be for house supply?

No houses being built, every study suggests around 30K a year needs to be built in Ireland to deal with old stock that isn't viable anymore and population increase. The spikes we are seeing now is directly tied into 5 years of tiny production (less than 30K in total) and a generation that isn't burdened with debt starting to look for housing. Outside of the spiking areas in Dublin there's still little to any profit for construction companies to build at the moment. How anyone can look at a 50%+ fall and say that its still overvalued isn't understanding the market forces. (I'm not saying allow/support a return to the lunatic prices but what everyone glosses over is we were willing to pay those prices)

Now I think it's past time that we as a Nation start realising that Semi-D's for everyone just isn't going to work, in Dublin and a degree Cork we need good quality Apartment blocks to stop urban sprawl (before Lenister is just Dublin suburbs).

Farmer Pudsey

sparky42 wrote: »

No houses being built, every study suggests around 30K a year needs to be built in Ireland to deal with old stock that isn't viable anymore and population increase. The spikes we are seeing now is directly tied into 5 years of tiny production (less than 30K in total) and a generation that isn't burdened with debt starting to look for housing. Outside of the spiking areas in Dublin there's still little to any profit for construction companies to build at the moment. How anyone can look at a 50%+ fall and say that its still overvalued isn't understanding the market forces. (I'm not saying allow/support a return to the lunatic prices but what everyone glosses over is we were willing to pay those prices)

Now I think it's past time that we as a Nation start realising that Semi-D's for everyone just isn't going to work, in Dublin and a degree Cork we need good quality Apartment blocks to stop urban sprawl (before Lenister is just Dublin suburbs).

The biggest issue in dDublin is the amount of unbuild or area's that fallen in derilection in the center of Dublin. Lots of hoarding of site is going on. In the Bacon report of the mid 90's it was purposed taht if develoment was not build on it or owner did not sell it on within two year that it would attract a super tax. This was implemented by the FG/Lab government of the mid90's however it was repealed by the FF/PD in 2003. This would stop the hoarding of development site and allow there utilisation and might keep site prices down.

chopper6

sparky42 wrote: »

Now I think it's past time that we as a Nation start realising that Semi-D's for everyone just isn't going to work, in Dublin and a degree Cork we need good quality Apartment blocks to stop urban sprawl (before Lenister is just Dublin suburbs).

Who's going to build them? The likes of Tom McFeeley?

sparky42

chopper6 wrote: »

Who's going to build them? The likes of Tom McFeeley?

There are plenty of good apartment blocks and plenty of equally bad Semi-D's, perhaps if the councils building inspectors actually you know inspected once in a while things would be different.

Maybe you like Urban sprawl with all the massive costs it brings but I'd prefer to avoid it.

sparky42

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The biggest issue in dDublin is the amount of unbuild or area's that fallen in derilection in the center of Dublin. Lots of hoarding of site is going on. In the Bacon report of the mid 90's it was purposed taht if develoment was not build on it or owner did not sell it on within two year that it would attract a super tax. This was implemented by the FG/Lab government of the mid90's however it was repealed by the FF/PD in 2003. This would stop the hoarding of development site and allow there utilisation and might keep site prices down.

Ideally yes, the problem right now is that many of the builders are either unable to get credit to develop or are in NAMA anyway. The market is still dysfunctional as is which is adding to the issue. However there is also Council actions that is impeding developments.

The Site Prices are one thing but the cost of construction is more than just that, even if you manage to stabillise the site, right now the rest of the development costs are more than what the builder will get in many cases.

chopper6

sparky42 wrote: »

There are plenty of good apartment blocks and plenty of equally bad Semi-D's, perhaps if the councils building inspectors actually you know inspected once in a while things would be different.

Maybe you like Urban sprawl with all the massive costs it brings but I'd prefer to avoid it.

There are no "good" apartment blocks built in the last ten years.

And i fail to see how inspecting private developments is a job for the council,especially as they're on the bones of thier arse after all the funding cuts they've taken to bail out the developers.

Farmer Pudsey

chopper6 wrote: »

There are no "good" apartment blocks built in the last ten years.

And i fail to see how inspecting private developments is a job for teh council.

In most country's there is a building regulatory body, especially where apartments are concerned. They are usually attached to llocal Government. This was supposed to happen during the boom but the council took the development levy's and failed tomake any checks. They left the supervisory duties to the professional engineers attached to the developers. These inviduals were compromised, and often site managers ingnored them. They also made sure area's were slabbed or closed off so that they could not be inspected.

In the case of apartments you need a professional inspection/regulatory authority to make sure there is no short cuts. Other wise we will have a lot more Priory Park type issue's

sparky42

chopper6 wrote: »

There are no "good" apartment blocks built in the last ten years.

And i fail to see how inspecting private developments is a job for the council,especially as they're on the bones of thier arse after all the funding cuts they've taken to bail out the developers.

There are good developments, it was the muppets in Dublin creating shoebox ones with bad sizes/quality that's the issue. Every other nation has high rises, some good some bad, what they don't have is the Irish obsession with owning property as a be all and end all of things.

By the way, IT'S THEIR JOB! to inspect developments and sign off on plans. As in we pay somebody in the councils to look at a developers plans evaluate them for size/quality/fire safety/environmental certification/materials used etc (ie Fire officers, town/city engineer department) and sign off them and the CIF has been lobbying for decades for them to be onsite inspecting the construction as it happens, just like happens in every other nation with a proper planning process. We pay them and the Developer pays them. The Dublin officers that signed off on the McFreeley apartments should have faced sanctions for failing to do so and endangering lives.

chopper6

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

In the case of apartments you need a professional inspection/regulatory authority to make sure there is no short cuts. Other wise we will have a lot more Priory Park type issue's

This is what i find sickening...the builders will cut corners and endanger lives *if* nobody is looking over thier shoulders all the time?

Priory hall is just the tip of the iceberg to say nothing of the huge number of estates riddled with pyrite by greedy builders...my own sister's house included.

Anybody who thinks any subsequent building boom will be any better needs thier head examined...the private sector is full of crooks...they should be in jail.

sparky42

chopper6 wrote: »

This is what i find sickening...the builders will cut corners and endanger lives *if* nobody is looking over thier shoulders all the time?

Priory hall is just the tip of the iceberg to say nothing of the huge number of estates riddled with pyrite by greedy builders...my own sister's house included.

Anybody who thinks any subsequent building boom will be any better needs thier head examined...the private sector is full of crooks...they should be in jail.

I'm sure you've never cut a corner at work, never taken a quick way out of a situation. It's human nature you are arguing against there.

It wasn't the builders that are to blame for Pyrite, it's a couple of the quarries in the midlands that slipped it into the mix without telling anyone. There was no way short of testing every lorry load of fill for them to know until it began to display, by which time all the quarries responsible were gone.

And the pubic sector is no better at screwing around so get off your high horse, or should we list the billions that they have wasted over the decades as well (and with no punishment for said waste either). Should the Dublin Council officers that signed off on wrong plans be sent to Jail?

chopper6

sparky42 wrote: »

And the pubic sector is no better at screwing around so get off your high horse, or should we list the billions that they have wasted over the decades as well (and with no punishment for said waste either).

So the public sector are the ones building substandard housing,pocketing the profits and leaving the taxpayer to pick up the tab?

Interesting.

Is it a public sector "construction boom" that Ronan Lyons and his cronies are lobbying for or yet more badly built kips for buy-to-let "landlords" to gouge people to stay in?

I seem to recall taking a 20% pay cut in the name of the bank bailout and all the other nonsense that went with the "boom" so you can understand my sceptism...Tom McFeely and Sean Dunne aren't exactly queuing up at the the soup kitchen now are they.

sparky42

chopper6 wrote: »

So the public sector are the ones building substandard housing,pocketing the profits and leaving the taxpayer to pick up the tab?

Interesting.

Is it a public sector "construction boom" that Ronan Lyons and his cronies are lobbying for or yet more badly built kips for buy-to-let "landlords" to gouge people to stay in?

I seem to recall taking a 20% pay cut in the name of the bank bailout and all the other nonsense that went with the "boom" so you can understand my sceptism...Tom McFeely and Sean Dunne aren't exactly queuing up at the the soup kitchen now are they.

How much waste has there been in the Health Service for decades? How about transport projects that have had gone massively over budget for no reason? How about all the perks that senior management and Union officials get and which the rank and file never rally against (how many Union heads get 100K salaries while arguing about how poorly paid you are, or negotiated to protect long term members while willing screwing over young members to pay for that protection). Or the decentralisation kick, or the FAS schemes for nothing? You could take the entire national debt amount and put it into the Health department and we'd still be told the public sector wasn't getting enough.

Every worker in the state has taken cuts/tax increases so please don't hold out your cuts as anything unique, of course one could mention the number of private sector who lost everything rather than just a pay cut.

What about all the public service members in the Central bank, the financial regulator, the competition authority, the councils during the boom? What were they doing? Why did they get to retire on full pensions when they knew all the details and so utterly failed in THEIR JOB's. IT takes more than the private sector for this to happen, but like the building inspectors I guess you'd like to avoid any suggestion of fault in the public service. Neary and co aren't queuing up at the soup kitchen either but I don't see you cursing them or the civil/public services people that protected them?

Farmer Pudsey

sparky42 wrote: »

I'm sure you've never cut a corner at work, never taken a quick way out of a situation. It's human nature you are arguing against there.

It wasn't the builders that are to blame for Pyrite, it's a couple of the quarries in the midlands that slipped it into the mix without telling anyone. There was no way short of testing every lorry load of fill for them to know until it began to display, by which time all the quarries responsible were gone.

And the pubic sector is no better at screwing around so get off your high horse, or should we list the billions that they have wasted over the decades as well (and with no punishment for said waste either).

What about all the ordinary plasterer's and blocklayers that used washingup liquid as a plastizer, it is often the ordinary worker on the site who is tryiing to make his life easier. During the boom this was a huge issue as builders were afraid to say boo to them as they would leave the site and go somewhere else.

It is the same in other area's, the taxi driver that will take you for a spin, the mechanic that will service you car and not change the filters or maybe the sparkplugs, the car dealer that will sell you rubbish, the publican that serves bad liguor etc etc

sparky42

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

What about all the ordinary plasterer's and blocklayers that used washingup liquid as a plastizer, it is often the ordinary worker on the site who is tryiing to make his life easier. During the boom this was a huge issue as builders were afraid to say boo to them as they would leave the site and go somewhere else.

It is the same in other area's, the taxi driver that will take you for a spin, the mechanic that will service you car and not change the filters or maybe the sparkplugs, the car dealer that will sell you rubbish, the publican that serves bad liguor etc etc

Exactly human nature is human nature, it happens in all sectors of work, I've made calls about taking a short cut at work to make life easier I'm sure everyone else has as well.

everdead.ie

Cutting corners on buildings is poor regulation and or poor enforcement no excuses and this self cert business is farcical.

sparky42

everdead.ie wrote: »

Cutting corners on buildings is poor regulation and or poor enforcement no excuses and this self cert business is farcical.

That's the point it wasn't meant to be self cert. There are local government personnel that are meant to review areas of the plans during development and sign off. The Dublin Fire officer should have signed off on those MCFeeley apartments (and we should be able to know exactly who did so when they clearly didn't meet fire code) but trying getting that information and doing anything with it.

chopper6

sparky42 wrote: »

Exactly human nature is human nature, it happens in all sectors of work, I've made calls about taking a short cut at work to make life easier I'm sure everyone else has as well.

There's a bit of a difference between skiving slightly at work and building substandard dwellings that actively put people's lives at risk.

This industry is a shambles...skiving and cost cutting is the norm...I met somebody at the weekend who'd bought in an apartment block some years ago where they was no partition between the individual attics...allowing a fire to rip through the building in minutes should one break out.

ANYBODY involved on a project like that,and there were thousands,knew exactly what was going on but as long as they were getting paid they didn't care.

I've another friend from Longford..at the end of his road was an area known locally as The Swamp...an apartment block was built on it and people allowed to move in...by the first October the places were flooded and unfit for human habitation....the same happened in Sallins.....houses built on the Liffey Flood plain...did the crooks involved on these builds not stop to question the morality of it?

What about that bloke who was selling the contaminated Limestone to the builders? Did he not stop to check if there was pyrite in the stuff? Course he knew,but he also knew he'd get away with it and face no sanctions whatsoever...just like the builders and their lackies the estate agents...selling wretchedly built hovels to people when they *knew* they were only fit to be knocked down.


So what happens now...did anybody in Priory Hall get their money back?

Were the pyrite dwellings knocked and rebuilt at the builders expense?

Not a bit of it...they can go to hell while the proles and the rags talk up another Construction bubble that will be exactly the same as the last one...except maybe in terms of scale.;

And of course the countryside will be ruined by these abominations and rural towns will once more enjoy nursing homes,hotels and apartment blocks that nobody uses.... while Dublin probably stretch to the border of Nth Ireland by then.

sparky42

chopper6 wrote: »

There's a bit of a difference between skiving slightly at work and building substandard dwellings that actively put people's lives at risk.

This industry is a shambles...skiving and cost cutting is the norm...I met somebody at the weekend who'd bought in an apartment block some years ago where they was no partition between the individual attics...allowing a fire to rip through the building in minutes should one break out.

ANYBODY involved on a project like that,and there were thousands,knew exactly what was going on but as long as they were getting paid they didn't care.

I've another friend from Longford..at the end of his road was an area known locally as The Swamp...an apartment block was built on it and people allowed to move in...by the first October the places were flooded and unfit for human habitation....the same happened in Sallins.....houses built on the Liffey Flood plain...did the crooks involved on these builds not stop to question the morality of it?

What about that bloke who was selling the contaminated Limestone to the builders? Did he not stop to check if there was pyrite in the stuff? Course he knew,but he also knew he'd get away with it and face no sanctions whatsoever...just like the builders and their lackies the estate agents...selling wretchedly built hovels to people when they *knew* they were only fit to be knocked down.


So what happens now...did anybody in Priory Hall get their money back?

Were the pyrite dwellings knocked and rebuilt at the builders expense?

Not a bit of it...they can go to hell while the proles and the rags talk up another Construction bubble that will be exactly the same as the last one...except maybe in terms of scale.;

And of course the countryside will be ruined by these abominations and rural towns will once more enjoy nursing homes,hotels and apartment blocks that nobody uses.... while Dublin probably stretch to the border of Nth Ireland by then.

So I notice that you have avoided any comments regarding any of the Public sector personnel involved in any and all of the issues related to or causing the boom.

Shows your blinked view.

chopper6

sparky42 wrote: »

So I notice that you have avoided any comments regarding any of the Public sector personnel involved in any and all of the issues related to or causing the boom.

Shows your blinked view.

Well we're certainly paying for any "involvement" now...paycuts,pension levies and USC payments.

I only wish I was in a position to stuff my pockets with money like the bankers and developers did before it all went sour.

MayoSalmon

sparky42 wrote: »

So I notice that you have avoided any comments regarding any of the Public sector personnel involved in any and all of the issues related to or causing the boom.

Shows your blinked view.

Ya see the thing is, virtually everybody was involved. There is plenty blame to go round.

Pyrite issue is a simple example...state inspectors blame the quarry, quarry blames the builder, builder blame the quarry, insurance companies blame all of the above and so on and so on.

The Celtic tiger has left an awful legacy of greed and corruption...it is the worst thing to ever happen to this country.

sparky42

chopper6 wrote: »

Well we're certainly paying for any "involvement" now...paycuts,pension levies and USC payments.

I only wish I was in a position to stuff my pockets with money like the bankers and developers did before it all went sour.

And all of those high end public servants, remind me how much Neary's pension is after all that he failed to do.

If they had done even a tenth of their job the bankers and developers won't have been in the position that they were in. But sure lets ignore all that.

Villa05

chopper6 wrote: »

I already heard a guy in work telling me a friend of his has gotten his dad to go guarantor on a mortage on a completely overpriced place IMO.

It will end up being his father's problem if he falls into difficulties...madness.

Another person i know got a mortage by maxing out three credit cards to scrape the 5000 k deposit together.
Banks will lend the money these days if you approach it the right way.

Another intresting example
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90047545&postcount=6

I work for a charity so my wage is at the lower end of the scale but my position is actually directly funded by a govt. department so the bank employee I spoke to put it down as 'semi-state'

It would appear that bank staff are pushing these mortgage applications over the line indicating that quantity rather than quality is being rewarded

Add the nature of mortgage interest being variable in most cases ensuring the bear the same characteristics that brought down the banks in the US - Adjustable rate mortgages.

The Banks are very fragile (should have been put out of there misery, being honest) It will be something small that will kick it off again, I don't think that we will have to wait too long for the next collapse

gaius c

sparky42 wrote: »

No houses being built, every study suggests around 30K a year needs to be built in Ireland to deal with old stock that isn't viable anymore and population increase. The spikes we are seeing now is directly tied into 5 years of tiny production (less than 30K in total) and a generation that isn't burdened with debt starting to look for housing. Outside of the spiking areas in Dublin there's still little to any profit for construction companies to build at the moment. How anyone can look at a 50%+ fall and say that its still overvalued isn't understanding the market forces. (I'm not saying allow/support a return to the lunatic prices but what everyone glosses over is we were willing to pay those prices)

Now I think it's past time that we as a Nation start realising that Semi-D's for everyone just isn't going to work, in Dublin and a degree Cork we need good quality Apartment blocks to stop urban sprawl (before Lenister is just Dublin suburbs).

Good job that you avoided the elephant in the room, the arrears. There's over 100k mortgages that are not being paid. Those people are holding stock they can't afford thus preventing those who can afford them from buying.
It's called "foreclosure stuffing" and it's (temporarily) messing up the market in parts of the US as well.

sparky42 wrote: »

So I notice that you have avoided any comments regarding any of the Public sector personnel involved in any and all of the issues related to or causing the boom.

Shows your blinked view.

Bit petty of you considering that you have a fairly blinkered (and bullish) view of "what's wrong" with the market yourself.

creedp

sparky42 wrote: »

Exactly human nature is human nature, it happens in all sectors of work, I've made calls about taking a short cut at work to make life easier I'm sure everyone else has as well.

That's certainly a statement that doesn't inspire any confidence in the building industry. Its all very well to say that the building regulators are responsible for ensure standards are met but where is the responsibility on the builder/develper to ensure he builds a high quality product. Has he any responsibility for ensuring his workers actually do what they are supposed to be doing? We may as well throw our hat at it if we need a regulator to ensure that the plasterer doesn't put washing up liquid in his plaster to make his life a bit easier.

How would that attitude work in the pharmaceutical industry, the motor industry? Imagine if Toyota said that problems with their cars weren't their fault really as its the Govt's responsibility to ensure their cars are built to the required standard - so let the Govt foot the bill for fixing them.

sparky42

creedp wrote: »

That's certainly a statement that doesn't inspire any confidence in the building industry. Its all very well to say that the building regulators are responsible for ensure standards are met but where is the responsibility on the builder/develper to ensure he builds a high quality product. Has he any responsibility for ensuring his workers actually do what they are supposed to be doing? We may as well throw our hat at it if we need a regulator to ensure that the plasterer doesn't put washing up liquid in his plaster to make his life a bit easier.

How would that attitude work in the pharmaceutical industry, the motor industry? Imagine if Toyota said that problems with their cars weren't their fault really as its the Govt's responsibility to ensure their cars are built to the required standard - so let the Govt foot the bill for fixing them.

Each area you've mentioned has oversight to hold them to standards, and sometimes those industries also fall down, (see the current issues for GM in the US, or Toyota before that or any of the major drug scandals, or the horse meat issue). We have or should have regulators to combat those very issues. Again the CIF was calling for inspections long before the crash and it was Government/public service that didn't/wouldn't do it. A core issue is that you have unregulated and uncertified builders who have no adherence to any code that can set up shop whenever they want and the Building industry has no control on that. During the boom plenty of people became developers that had never built anything in their lives, but they paid their money to the council in development tax and that was the end of it from the local government side of things.

In an ideal world ever single worker no matter what they were doing would be perfect, but we don't live in an ideal world. That's why there are meant to be checks, inspections, quality control etc.

sparky42

gaius c wrote: »

Good job that you avoided the elephant in the room, the arrears. There's over 100k mortgages that are not being paid. Those people are holding stock they can't afford thus preventing those who can afford them from buying.
It's called "foreclosure stuffing" and it's (temporarily) messing up the market in parts of the US as well.

That is part of it, just as land bank holding is part of it, and lack of construction, old units going out of use, highest average income in the country and increased demand. The Dublin spikes are being driven by many underlying factors, but the reality is that you can't undershot the needed build rate for 5 years and then be somehow surprised that prices are increasing. Some units are in the wrong place or aren't what people want/need at this stage and that is causing the spikes, Dublin needs more housing units, ever CSO study has demonstrated that more people are going to the capital every year and the units that they want aren't there.

Bit petty of you considering that you have a fairly blinkered (and bullish) view of "what's wrong" with the market yourself.

I'm more than willing to admit the wrong doing of people in the private sector in where we are, however I have no intention of agreeing to the view that the Public Sector is the paragon of virtue and has never screwed up, nor that it didn't play its part in the mess we are in.

Whether that's safety officers/engineers signing off of bad plans or developments or senior public servants being in this up to their neck. How about Neary and the other senior members who were at best criminally negligent, at worse criminally complicit in this but walked away with a golden handshake, a top up and a 6 figure pension? Since the crash we've had attempts across Europe to introduce claw backs on bonus for bankers if 4 years down the line their deal breaks the bank, why have I heard nothing from the unions about the same scheme for Public servants? If 4 years later it turns out that you fundamentally failed in your duties you don't get the 100K a year pension? Maybe it's because the Union leadership is on 100K+ and has no intention of making that call?

Farmer Pudsey

creedp wrote: »

That's certainly a statement that doesn't inspire any confidence in the building industry. Its all very well to say that the building regulators are responsible for ensure standards are met but where is the responsibility on the builder/develper to ensure he builds a high quality product. Has he any responsibility for ensuring his workers actually do what they are supposed to be doing? We may as well throw our hat at it if we need a regulator to ensure that the plasterer doesn't put washing up liquid in his plaster to make his life a bit easier.

How would that attitude work in the pharmaceutical industry, the motor industry? Imagine if Toyota said that problems with their cars weren't their fault really as its the Govt's responsibility to ensure their cars are built to the required standard - so let the Govt foot the bill for fixing them.

Building regulations is not just an Irish issue. Turkey found out after an earthquakes what poor regulation in building costs. I think the US did as well. The issue in Ireland is that neither the builders, professional engineers or the local authority's did there job in the case of some apartments. The pharmaceutical industry is strigently regulated. We saw from the food industry when poor regulation and a blind eye is turned what big cooporations will allow. Again thsi was not just an Irish issue.

You only buy a house once or twice in a lifetime you buy a car maybe every 2-5 years depending on you wishes. The reality is that we also had the NHBGS who failed to do there job, collect large levys to those who want to use there gaurantee but failed to monitor there activity. It si one thing that there is an issue with a single dwelling however with apartment blocks I doubt if any country would not check as the developer builds and make sure it is to spec.

chopper6

sparky42 wrote: »

I'm more than willing to admit the wrong doing of people in the private sector in where we are, however I have no intention of agreeing to the view that the Public Sector is the paragon of virtue and has never screwed up, nor that it didn't play its part in the mess we are in.

Whether that's safety officers/engineers signing off of bad plans or developments or senior public servants being in this up to their neck. How about Neary and the other senior members who were at best criminally negligent, at worse criminally complicit in this but walked away with a golden handshake, a top up and a 6 figure pension? Since the crash we've had attempts across Europe to introduce claw backs on bonus for bankers if 4 years down the line their deal breaks the bank, why have I heard nothing from the unions about the same scheme for Public servants? If 4 years later it turns out that you fundamentally failed in your duties you don't get the 100K a year pension? Maybe it's because the Union leadership is on 100K+ and has no intention of making that call?

Sorry but you're gonna need to explain this to me..

sparky42

chopper6 wrote: »

Sorry but you're gonna need to explain this to me..

Really you missed the Anglo trial where it was stated that the Financial Regulator was involved in actions that breached the companies act? You realise that the two found guilty will get a reduced sentence if not get off because of that, while he sits at home getting hundreds of thousands in his pension for fundamentally failing to do his job (at best)

Or the Central Bank executives/directors that "missed" everything and retired before being called before the Daíl committees to answer for it.

Or how about the Department secretaries who on the night of the Guarantee decided that note taking wasn't an important part of it. Or whoever "lost" the phone records of the minister for Finance.

There are plenty that were in senior positions and some that still are that either didn't do their jobs or weren't competent at them but I don't see Jack O'Connor calling for their heads. I don't see Union leaders calling for Neary to be reduced to the state pension instead of what he's on right now (again because their pensions are just as big)

chopper6

sparky42 wrote: »

Really you missed the Anglo trial where it was stated that the Financial Regulator was involved in actions that breached the companies act? You realise that the two found guilty will get a reduced sentence if not get off because of that, while he sits at home getting hundreds of thousands in his pension for fundamentally failing to do his job (at best)

Or the Central Bank executives/directors that "missed" everything and retired before being called before the Daíl committees to answer for it.

Or how about the Department secretaries who on the night of the Guarantee decided that note taking wasn't an important part of it. Or whoever "lost" the phone records of the minister for Finance.

There are plenty that were in senior positions and some that still are that either didn't do their jobs or weren't competent at them but I don't see Jack O'Connor calling for their heads. I don't see Union leaders calling for Neary to be reduced to the state pension instead of what he's on right now (again because their pensions are just as big)

You've gone on about Anglo and the Central Bank...then you mention Jack O'connor :rolleyes: