Avoiding the chainring

TouchingVirus

So I've been cycling for about a month now and much prefer cycling in shorts to trousers but I've run into a problem now in that my calf keeps coming into contact with the outer chainring.

Sometimes it's not so bad and I get a greasemark but on three occassions (including this morning) I've gotten to my destination to find that it looks like I bailed from open leg surgery. The cuts are more like chunks taken out where a single tooth has just dug into my calf. I don't feel them at the time and they're not particularly sore but at the same time I'd rather not get cut at all. Does anybody else have issues making contact with the chainring or suggestions on how would I stop this happening?

tunney

Is your saddle to high making you unstable when you put your foot down?

On the grease makes, thats easy. Clean your bike.

AstraMonti

It's a bit weird to be touching the chainrings while pedalling. What kind of pedals do you have on your bike? If you are running spds you can get some washers to lengthen the q factor and see if that helps.

TouchingVirus

tunney wrote: »

Is your saddle to high making you unstable when you put your foot down?

On the grease makes, thats easy. Clean your bike.

I'm not sure how having a high saddle would affect it, when I'm stopped there's a chain blocking off the teeth anyway so I'm thinking this happens when I'm cycling.

AstraMonti wrote: »

It's a bit weird to be touching the chainrings while pedalling. What kind of pedals do you have on your bike? If you are running spds you can get some washers to lengthen the q factor and see if that helps.

I've a big calf, probably should have said as much. I'm running MKS Touring pedals which are fairly wide:

tunney

TouchingVirus wrote: »

I'm not sure how having a high saddle would affect it, when I'm stopped there's a chain blocking off the teeth anyway so I'm thinking this happens when I'm cycling.



I've a big calf, probably should have said as much. I'm running MKS Touring pedals which are fairly wide:

Unless when you stop you are in the small ring.

TouchingVirus

tunney wrote: »

Unless when you stop you are in the small ring.

*facepalm* You could be on to something here but to be honest I'm not sure which ring is which - is the further one out the harder/higher one? If so then I almost never leave that ring and definitely didn't leave it on the cycle this morning

Lumen

Suitably adjusted clipless pedals would probably sort this out.

smacl

Sounds like a chain guard is in order. Pretty standard on most hybrids though not always the prettiest things. Don't know what the story is getting one for a road bike.

TouchingVirus

Lumen wrote: »

Suitably adjusted clipless pedals would probably sort this out.

Are they not a big enough investment for a commuter bike and somebody who's only starting out?

smacl wrote: »

Sounds like a chain guard is in order. Pretty standard on most hybrids though not always the prettiest things. Don't know what the story is getting one for a road bike.

It's a hybrid - a Trek FX 7.5. I'll take a look; it might scream noob for a while but less so than a bloody calf. I think I'll also go for a cycle at a quieter non-commuting time where I can look down at my leg and see if I can spot where the danger's coming from.

AstraMonti

A decent pair of pedals/shoes will set you back around 50-60 euro, well worth the investment. Do you feel you move your leg a lot sidewise when you 're pedalling?

TouchingVirus

I don't feel like it's happening, no. But I'm so new to this that it might be without me realising it. I think that cycle where I look at my motion and what I'm doing is definitely on the cards

quozl

TouchingVirus wrote: »

Are they not a big enough investment for a commuter bike and somebody who's only starting out?

It's a hybrid - a Trek FX 7.5.

I've a Trek 7.5 FX also and put single-sided SPD pedals on it - the mountain bike style ones that go with shoes that are comfortable to walk in.

I bet your feet are bouncing around on our crap roads, particularly if you got the 28mm Bontrager tyres that came with mine and foolishly (like I did) run them at the listed max pressure of 120 PSI!

What tyre width do you have? And what pressure are you running? If you're about 80KG then you can run 28mm tyres at around 75 PSI (http://problemsolversbike.com/files/blog/BQ_berto_inflationgraph_2.jpeg) which will help your feet stay on the pedals compared to the roughness of 100+ PSI. Particularly as you say you're new to this (like me) so you won't have the same skill as most here at avoiding or absorbing bumps yourself.

Here's a cheap (32euro delivered) pair of single sided SPD pedals - http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/shimano-m324-clipless-spd-flat-mtb-pedals/rp-prod5937

You can get double sided ones for even less but I like having single sided ones on my 7.5fx in case I'm popping to the shops.

Clipless pedals & shoes are great IMO. I moved to them within about 2 months of learning to ride a bike and now I really miss them anytime I don't have them. Especially on rough, pot-holed roads where I feel they give you much greater control over the bike. Rathmines road in particular was horrific without clipless pedals, until they resurfaced it before Christmas.

smacl

TouchingVirus wrote: »

It's a hybrid - a Trek FX 7.5. I'll take a look; it might scream noob for a while but less so than a bloody calf. I think I'll also go for a cycle at a quieter non-commuting time where I can look down at my leg and see if I can spot where the danger's coming from.

Check this thread.

bambergbike

I sometimes get greasemarks while parking and re-mounting at stops, but I never had the chain dig into me while I was pedalling along, the worst case scenario so far has always involved attacks on my trouser legs. Do you have impressively large calf muscles?

I don't think I'd bother with a chainguard, there's no guarantee that you wouldn't find sharp edges on a chainguard or a bashguard attacking you instead. Move your feet instead, by attaching them to clipless pedals. Or move your hips (could you be sitting more squarely on the saddle) and your feet might follow.

My clipless pedals are set up slightly asymetrically. Symmetry hurts too much. But my clipless setup is still way more symetrical than the way I ride when I'm not clipped in. Then one foot rests against the crank arm and the other one sits two centimetres out from the crank arm, so that I can see the pedal spindle when I look down. In my case, I think that brings the "threatened" leg further away from the chain - you might be doing something similar, but in reverse, so you end up with your calf in the chain line.

If you're spinning along comfortably and glance down, is the foot on the drivetrain side closer to the crank arm?

thejaguar

Why not just stick something like a sweatband (similar thickness is what I'm thinking) around your calf for the time being to protect it until you can get a look at what's happening.

I get marks on my calves an odd time - it's usually when I put my foot down and I'm not properly balanced.

TouchingVirus

quozl wrote: »

What tyre width do you have? And what pressure are you running? If you're about 80KG then you can run 28mm tyres at around 75 PSI (http://problemsolversbike.com/files/blog/BQ_berto_inflationgraph_2.jpeg) which will help your feet stay on the pedals compared to the roughness of 100+ PSI. Particularly as you say you're new to this (like me) so you won't have the same skill as most here at avoiding or absorbing bumps yourself.

Here's a cheap (32euro delivered) pair of single sided SPD pedals - http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/shimano-m324-clipless-spd-flat-mtb-pedals/rp-prod5937

You can get double sided ones for even less but I like having single sided ones on my 7.5fx in case I'm popping to the shops.

Clipless pedals & shoes are great IMO. I moved to them within about 2 months of learning to ride a bike and now I really miss them anytime I don't have them. Especially on rough, pot-holed roads where I feel they give you much greater control over the bike. Rathmines road in particular was horrific without clipless pedals, until they resurfaced it before Christmas.

I bought the bike about a month ago so I'm running whatever the shop put into it - guessing 120PSI on the 28mm stock tires. I'm a fair bit more than 80kg but dropping all the time. Given the graph I reckon about 110psi on the 28mm tires would do me and the bike. Maybe I should see about wider tires that I can run at lower PSI but that's getting a bit out of scope since I'm just trying to avoid the chainring

I'll definitely consider the clipless pedals and shoes in the near future. My housemate has those pedals so all I'd need to get are the shoes, I'm sure he'd let me try out the pedals for a week or so.

bambergbike wrote: »

I sometimes get greasemarks while parking and re-mounting at stops, but I never had the chain dig into me while I was pedalling along, the worst case scenario so far has always involved attacks on my trouser legs. Do you have impressively large calf muscles?

I don't think I'd bother with a chainguard, there's no guarantee that you wouldn't find sharp edges on a chainguard or a bashguard attacking you instead. Move your feet instead, by attaching them to clipless pedals. Or move your hips (could you be sitting more squarely on the saddle) and your feet might follow.

My clipless pedals are set up slightly asymetrically. Symmetry hurts too much. But my clipless setup is still way more symetrical than the way I ride when I'm not clipped in. Then one foot rests against the crank arm and the other one sits two centimetres out from the crank arm, so that I can see the pedal spindle when I look down. In my case, I think that brings the "threatened" leg further away from the chain - you might be doing something similar, but in reverse, so you end up with your calf in the chain line.

If you're spinning along comfortably and glance down, is the foot on the drivetrain side closer to the crank arm?

I'll take a look this evening on the cycle home and see if I can spot if my foot's really close to the arm, which when coupled with my calf size might create an overlap. To answer your other question I've got 20.5" calves from years of walking around with a not so light body.

Bloggsie

TouchingVirus wrote: »

So I've been cycling for about a month now and much prefer cycling in shorts to trousers but I've run into a problem now in that my calf keeps coming into contact with the outer chainring.

Sometimes it's not so bad and I get a greasemark but on three occassions (including this morning) I've gotten to my destination to find that it looks like I bailed from open leg surgery. The cuts are more like chunks taken out where a single tooth has just dug into my calf. I don't feel them at the time and they're not particularly sore but at the same time I'd rather not get cut at all. Does anybody else have issues making contact with the chainring or suggestions on how would I stop this happening?

Good Afternoon,

Try dropping into your LBS for a fitting, they pop you up on the a stand & get to to do a spin to look at saddle height, arm position & so on, if your leg moves in during the rotation they may be able to advise you on a measure that can stop you getting a piercing!

doozerie

Another possibility to consider is that the serrated edges on the pedals themselves could be causing the cuts, maybe they are bumping or resting against your calf while you are stopped.

I used to use bear trap pedals (very similar design to yours) with toeclips when doing mountain biking many years ago, and I can say from experience that once they've tasted that first bit of blood, from shins in my case, there is no satisfying pedals, they turn into bloodthirsty monsters.

TouchingVirus

So I cycled the length of the underground car park a few times to see if I could find out the problem. Turns out it's not the chain ring, it's the front dérailleur digging into the same spot on my calf when I'm at full extension. I'm going to also guess it gets pretty bad when I stand up and pedal, maybe I'm slamming the dérailleur into my calf on the down stroke which might also explain why I don't notice. Here's how close it gets normally.



There's some other evidence that this is the problem spot in the first attachment that I've not embedded since it contains a small bit of blood, presumably from this morning.

Guess a chain or bash guard isn't necessary

Raam

Q factor must be really narrow on that bike. What length are the cranks and what height are you?

Here is mine. Excuse the stubble, I have been lazy. Calf muscle is 14.5 inch. My leg would go nowhere near the front mech.

Wishbone Ash

TouchingVirus wrote: »

I bought the bike about a month ago so I'm running whatever the shop put into it -

You haven't checked the tyre pressure in a month?? Should be checked daily or at least every few days.

seamus

If you do a quick comparison between yourself and Raam's pictures, two things stand out (though angle may play some factor).

- You're pedalling on your instep, Raam is pedalling on the ball of his foot (clipless pedals basically force this). Just shifting your foot back on the pedal by 2-3cm could give you more clearance and will actually be a more efficient stroke. Though it's something you may need to consciously train yourself to do.

- Your heel is turned inwards, towards the bike. Again, something you have to be conscious of and train yourself out of. Clipless pedals are actually a good idea because they stop the bad habits and actually train you to pedal properly even on normal pedals. I used to be a demon for insole pedalling. Now it just feels weird.

spyderski

OP, you seriously need to get toe straps or clipless pedals. The pics show you pedalling with the pedal axle under your instep.

It should be under the ball of your foot. Your foot is currently about 4-6cm too far back on the pedals.

That's the problem.

Lumen

If you don't want to commit to clipless pedals (and compatible shoes) you could attach some "half deep section" clips to your pedals to help locate your foot properly.

http://www.wiggle.com/mks-half-deep-section-toe-clip/

Brian?

Just wanted to echo what previous posters have said:

You're foot position on the pedals is wrong. You seriously need to think about clipless pedals.

Also, pump your tyres man! They don't stay inflated to optimal pressure indefinitely. Think about balloons a couple of days after a party.

smacl

It could also be worth getting someone who cycles regularly to look at your set-up. Your foot position could be wrong, because your saddle is too low. I say that having made a similar mistake when I got into cycling a couple of year back, being the nervous type that wanted to have both feet able to touch the ground while in the saddle.

While clipless pedals are great, and well worth the effort of getting used to, I think even a rough bike fit would sort this problem.

TouchingVirus

Thanks for all the advice and hand-holding here guys, it's much appreciated. I'll drop into the local bike shop for a re-fit, I had one done on the day of purchase so I'm not sure how much of a help it'll be (I can only just about tip-toe the ground when in the saddle). I'll check the tire pressure tonight and put it on my list of things to check regularly, along with the lights. I'll also see about picking up a pair of SPD shoes and borrowing my friend's set of M324 pedals to see if I can correct this stuff but in the meantime I'll be much more conscious of my foot position.

smacl

TouchingVirus wrote: »

I'll also see about picking up a pair of SPD shoes and borrowing my friend's set of M324 pedals to see if I can correct this stuff but in the meantime I'll be much more conscious of my foot position.

Note you can adjust the tension on the M324 pedals. I'd recommend leaving them loose until you get used to them and the tightening to suit. While some take to clipless very quickly, I found it took me quite a few rides to get really comfortable with them, so perseverance in is the name of the game. That said, I'd feel uncomfortable without them on a long ride at this point.

TouchingVirus

smacl wrote: »

Note you can adjust the tension on the M324 pedals. I'd recommend leaving them loose until you get used to them and the tightening to suit. While some take to clipless very quickly, I found it took me quite a few rides to get really comfortable with them, so perseverance in is the name of the game. That said, I'd feel uncomfortable without them on a long ride at this point.

One more question: since I'm mostly commuting under 12km a day and mostly in traffic, would clipless still be recommended?

smacl

TouchingVirus wrote: »

One more question: since I'm mostly commuting under 12km a day and mostly in traffic, would clipless still be recommended?

Personally, I wouldn't bother for that distance and don't much like clipless with a lot of start/stop cycling, though many others here possibly would. For my money, Lumen's "half deep section" clips would be a far better bet in the short term.

quozl

TouchingVirus wrote: »

I had one done on the day of purchase so I'm not sure how much of a help it'll be (I can only just about tip-toe the ground when in the saddle).

It's still possible that the seat is too low even if you can only get tip-toes to the ground. I've a 7.5FX as well and I can't put both tip-toes down on the ground - I'd have to lean over quite a bit and put one tip-toe down to remain in the seat. It'd not be a comfortable way to try and start the bike at all.

It might be worth looking at the short video in this link - http://sheldonbrown.com/starting.html . It shows the correct way to start a bicycle - which involves you not starting on the saddle. It's necessary if you're to have your saddle at the correct height. Apologies if I'm telling you things you already know.

Just by moving to peddling with the balls of your feet you're going to get effectively slightly longer legs, so your saddle is going to need to go upwards to compensate. Even if it was perfect height for the insole peddling.