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Ivor Bell arrested and charged in Jean McConville murder investigation

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    #1142
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    We don't know if they were or not, they won't release the files relating to it.
    Look over there! Look over there! Ignore the elephant in the room!


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    #1143
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Admitting involvement didn't do MMcG much harm and yet Gerry is spending another 48 hours in custody.
    Strange reasoning you have, are you sure that you are willing to be convinced, are you sure you haven't decided already that he is guilty?

    McGuinness couldn't claim he wasn't a member. He just claims he wasn't a member post '74 - which is no less a lie.


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    #1144
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    SF calling for truth and reconsolidation is all well and fine but of they honestly know its not ever going to happen ,
    Its just propaganda saying there all up for it ,

    If David Cameron announced on Tuesday a full truth and reconsolidation commission would take place in two weeks time would there suddenly be a change of mind on some parties stances
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #1145
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Dr.Tank Adams wrote: »
    Seems like way too much of a coincidence that they decide to pick him up just as Sinn Fein are pushing for the top of the polls

    SF topped the polls in NI years ago. So not so timely in that regard.


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    #1146
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    What somebody in the republican / nationalist community feels about gerry


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    #1147
    Dr.Tank Adams
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭Dr.Tank Adams


    alastair wrote: »
    SF topped the polls in NI years ago. So not so timely in that regard.

    In the south obviously.


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    #1148
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Well, well, well.

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/now-adams-thinks-hes-curbed-us-he-has-not-30674875.html


    Gerry Adams challenged the Sunday Independent's conclusion from an opinion poll that he was lying about his involvement in Jean McConville to the Press Ombudsman and he lost.

    It seems therefore that it is fair comment to say that most people do not believe Adams when he denies involvement in the disappearance and murder of Jean McConville.


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    #1149
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Godge wrote: »

    It seems therefore that it is fair comment to say that most people do not believe Adams when he denies involvement in the disappearance and murder of Jean McConville.

    :D does that mean he is guilty? Who needs a court of law...Sindo polls are cheaper.


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    #1150
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    :D does that mean he is guilty? Who needs a court of law...Sindo polls are cheaper.


    No, it doesn't mean he has been found guilty in a court of law. But neither were any of the bankers found guilty in a court of law.

    Doesn't stop people believing Mr. Adams is telling lies.


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    #1151
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Godge wrote: »
    No, it doesn't mean he has been found guilty in a court of law. But neither were any of the bankers found guilty in a court of law.

    Doesn't stop people believing Mr. Adams is telling lies.

    'Some people'.


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    #1152
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    'Some people'.

    According to the poll, and as backed by the Press Ombudsman, "most people".


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    #1153
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Godge wrote: »
    According to the poll, and as backed by the Press Ombudsman, "most people".

    Would that be most people polled or most people in Ireland or the World?


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    #1154
    DarkyHughes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    alastair wrote: »
    Not according to Willy Whitelaw. He was quite specific that he was talking to IRA men, as was Seán Mac Stíofáin.

    And how the hell will would William Whitelaw know who he was talking to? Did he sit on the IRA Army council?


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    #1155
    DarkyHughes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    Godge wrote: »
    No, it doesn't mean he has been found guilty in a court of law. But neither were any of the bankers found guilty in a court of law.

    Doesn't stop people believing Mr. Adams is telling lies.

    Doesn't stop some people believing the Guildford Four are still guilty even tho they have no proof to back it up just like with Ger.


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    #1156
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    DarkyHughes wrote: »
    And how the hell will would William Whitelaw know who he was talking to? Did he sit on the IRA Army council?

    I'm sure he was just as in the dark as Seán Mac Stíofáin was, eh?


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    #1157
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Would that be most people polled or most people in Ireland or the World?

    The Press Ombudsman found that in the context of the particular poll, the use of the phrase "most people in Ireland" was ok.


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    #1158
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Godge wrote: »
    The Press Ombudsman found that in the context of the particular poll, the use of the phrase "most people in Ireland" was ok.
    The Press Council decided to allow the newspaper's appeal in relation to the finding made by the Press Ombudsman on our interpretation of the poll findings regarding whether or not people believed Mr Adams was lying about having a role in the murder of Jean McConville.

    Please stop treating people on these threads as fools Godge. Please?


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    #1159
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Please stop treating people on these threads as fools Godge. Please?

    Most of the people on here are not fools, just like most of the people in Ireland believe Gerry Adams was/is a member of the IRA, just like most of the people in Ireland do not believe Gerry Adams on the Mairia Cahill meeting.

    As for the fools, I know full well who they are, and treat them as such.


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    #1160
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Any fool can see that what you selectively omitted (selectivity being a habit of yours) is the bolded bit below. Carry on.
    The Press Ombudsman found that in the context of the particular poll, the use of the phrase "most people in Ireland" was ok to use in our interpretation of the poll findings


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    #1161
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Any fool can see that what you selectively omitted (selectivity being a habit of yours) was is the bolded bit below. Carry on.

    How is that any different, in practical or logical terms?


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    #1162
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    How is that any different, in practical or logical terms?

    Here is what Godge said:
    According to the poll, and as backed by the Press Ombudsman, "most people".

    What he should have said was;

    According to the Independent's interpretation of the poll, and as backed by the Press Ombudsman, "most people".


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    #1163
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Here is what Godge said:


    What he should have said was;

    According to the Independent's interpretation of the poll, and as backed by the Press Ombudsman, "most people".

    Who else do you think is going to be referenced, in a review of the validity of the Independent's article? The tooth fairy? The finding was that the use of the phrase "most people in Ireland" within the paper, in the context of the poll's findings, was acceptable.


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    #1164
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    Who else do you think is going to be referenced, in a review of the validity of the Independent's article? The tooth fairy? The finding was that the use of the phrase "most people in Ireland" within the paper, in the context of the poll's findings, was acceptable.

    Yes...and you should point that out to Godge too.


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    #1165
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Yes...and you should point that out to Godge too.

    It doesn't need pointing out to anyone - the press ombudsman can only refer to the specific newspaper in question. It's a given.


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    #1166
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    It doesn't need pointing out to anyone - the press ombudsman can only refer to the specific newspaper in question. It's a given.

    It does to Godge, he tried to infer that 'most people in Ireland' believe something, when it is the Independent's opinion of a poll finding that 'most people believe something'.
    Like all polls, you won't actually know what Godge infer's until you actually poll everybody in Ireland.


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    #1167
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    It does to Godge, he tried to infer that 'most people in Ireland' believe something,

    No he did not.
    Godge wrote:
    The Press Ombudsman found that in the context of the particular poll, the use of the phrase "most people in Ireland" was ok.

    Contexts:

    1. Press ombundsman, so clearly related to a press article
    2. Specific poll, so not a vox pop of the entire nation

    The 'inference' is crystal clear - it's exactly as he posted.

    What does the poll indicate? That most people in Ireland believe Adams was an IRA member.


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    #1168
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    No he did not.



    Contexts:

    1. Press ombundsman, so clearly related to a press article
    2. Specific poll, so not a vox pop of the entire nation

    The 'inference' is crystal clear - it's exactly as he posted.

    What does the poll indicate? That most people in Ireland believe Adams was an IRA member.

    Here is what Godge infers;
    GODGE wrote:
    just like most of the people in Ireland believe Gerry Adams was/is a member of the IRA, just like most of the people in Ireland do not believe Gerry Adams on the Mairia Cahill meeting.

    Did I miss a referendum on this?


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    #1169
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Did I miss a referendum on this?

    You clearly missed a poll on that, and continue to miss the context of that poll, and Godge's reference to that context.

    What does the poll tell us?


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    #1170
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    You clearly missed a poll on that, and continue to miss the context of that poll, and Godge's reference to that context.

    What does the poll tell us?

    The only way you can say;
    just like most of the people in Ireland believe Gerry Adams was/is a member of the IRA, just like most of the people in Ireland do not believe Gerry Adams on the Mairia Cahill meeting.

    is by holding a referendum (poll) of all the people.
    Never mind the membership part, has there even been an opinion poll on the Maria Cahill meeting yet? Yet Godge can speak for the entire country on that too.
    His claims are unproven and spurious.
    When you admit on another thread that the Independent have a proven anti SF agenda, you should advise Godge that he shouldn't even be using it to back up his cat litter tray much less an argument. ;)


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    #1171
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    The only way you can say;


    is by holding a referendum (poll) of all the people.

    Referenda are only for constitutional issues. So we can only utilise polls to make this judgement. The poll tells us that most people in Ireland believe he was an IRA member.

    The Indo's anti-SF stance has nothing to do with that people told the pollsters. They told them that they believed Adams was in the IRA. Quell surprise! :rolleyes:


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