Minimum tillage

exercise is the antidote

What's people's opinion on minimum tillage? Know anybody doing it. ? How are they getting on?

micraX

I know a few lads direct drilling rape into stubble ground. Seems to be working, but like everything else it depends on conditions. You thinking about going down the min-till routh?

noworries2004

If you are setting grass into a stubble field should it be ploughed?

sheebadog

Min till has 2 types of supporters.

1. The hardcore that want to return soil structure to what it used to be in the old days of a mixed farming enterprise.

2. Those that want to avoid the cost of ploughing and seedbed preparation.


What camp would you be in?

pajero12

sheebadog wrote: »

Min till has 2 types of supporters.

1. The hardcore that want to return soil structure to what it used to be in the old days of a mixed farming enterprise.

2. Those that want to avoid the cost of ploughing and seedbed preparation.


What camp would you be in?

3. Those that want to avoid 3 weeks of stone picking

micraX

noworries2004 wrote: »

If you are setting grass into a stubble field should it be ploughed?

Is it tramped bad? What are the tram lines like?

exercise is the antidote

I think it has a place in the future but you would need a plough for back up if conditions aren't ideal. It can take up to 4 years to see the benefits from it. It's probably the cost that's keeping farmers from switching but I can see big benefits from it that out weigh the negatives And if I stay in tillage in the future ill be seriously thinking of going this direction.
Less fuel, less runs, less fecking around with a plough. More work done and possible being able to take more land

sheebadog

pajero12 wrote: »

3. Those that want to avoid 3 weeks of stone picking

Sorry but stones are now only a memory.
A bad memory!

noworries2004

Yes stubble field is good tram lines not bad.
Prob the best option to reduce picking stones,
May be putting back into tillage next yr pr the yr after.

Greengrass1

exercise is the antidote wrote: »

I think it has a place in the future but you would need a plough for back up if conditions aren't ideal. It can take up to 4 years to see the benefits from it. It's probably the cost that's keeping farmers from switching but I can see big benefits from it that out weigh the negatives And if I stay in tillage in the future ill be seriously thinking of going this direction.
Less fuel, less runs, less fecking around with a plough. More work done and possible being able to take more land

Big tillage farmer beside me 2000ac plus. Well able to plough and sow 100ac a day

exercise is the antidote

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Big tillage farmer beside me 2000ac plus. Well able to plough and sow 100ac a day

Probably has a 5 sod reversible or more... He has made his commitment,

just a straight 3 sod here. Would take us abit longer to do 100ac but get it done all the same.

F.D

Do you not end up having ploughing in your rotation anyway to control weeds etc, would it be fair to say what you save on metal ploughing a certain amount goes back on in slug pellets, additional sprays and more fuel if you have to harrow to get the weeds to chit before you spray etc,
I hear other people saying you have to have a high level of organic matter in your soil to get it to work correctly, which would be very low where the straw has been taken off continously over the years

micraX

You'll never beat the plough though when it comes to the buzz of ploughing a new field, which way to turn it, doing the headlands ploughing around a pole. Etc. It's so fun.

conor t

think no-till is the way to go with a cross slot drill, with a good diverse rotation over the first few years you'd keep on top of weeds and after that there less likely to germinate with so little disturbance. fairly sure that the majority of crops in south America are direct drilled.

sheebadog

conor t wrote: »

think no-till is the way to go with a cross slot drill, with a good diverse rotation over the first few years you'd keep on top of weeds and after that there less likely to germinate with so little disturbance. fairly sure that the majority of crops in south America are direct drilled.

Cross slot? Expensive taste there Conor!

What's wrong with the auld Aitchison T-Sem?

conor t

sheebadog wrote: »

Cross slot? Expensive taste there Conor!

What's wrong with the auld Aitchison T-Sem?

not too familiar with seed drills but if your drilling into heavy stubble or a cover crop would it cope better?

conor t

sheebadog

conor t wrote: »

not too familiar with seed drills but if your drilling into heavy stubble or a cover crop would it cope better?

It would fecking want to at the price of them.
Would you spend a couple of hundred grand on a Cross Slot?

conor t

sheebadog wrote: »

It would fecking want to at the price of them.
Would you spend a couple of hundred grand on a Cross Slot?

f**k that's some price, knew they were expensive but didn't think they'd be that much!!

GRASSorMUCK

conor t wrote: »

f**k that's some price, knew they were expensive but didn't think they'd be that much!!

Personaly deere 750 series but who cares, no-til way forward but need accurate gps and controlled traffic in our wet soils to control compaction otherwise wasting your time. Also need a rotation other than continuos SB... and have a plan b other than muck it in.

GRASSorMUCK

sheebadog wrote: »

It would fecking want to at the price of them.
Would you spend a couple of hundred grand on a Cross Slot?

My experience is larger farms in Uk but by time get in all the kit to min-til not far off a cross slot and still need to finance big ignorant cultivations tractor vs 1 drill and medium sized tractor tricked out with rtk iykwim.
Personaly for ireland something cheap to keep cost down on generaly smaller acerages, just like 750 series as cheap as chips when go looking and dozens of mods etc from the states etc as wel as cheaper parts

Juniorhurler

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Big tillage farmer beside me 2000ac plus. Well able to plough and sow 100ac a day

He hires in a good bit of labour too. A neighbour of mine spreads a good shot of muck for him and does a bit for him in spring too.

Greengrass1

Juniorhurler wrote: »

He hires in a good bit of labour too. A neighbour of mine spreads a good shot of muck for him and does a bit for him in spring too.

Ye gets in one or two students and has few others.
Mainly all autumn planted though.
Never more than 3 or 4 in the field at sowing time

sheebadog

GRASSorMUCK wrote: »

My experience is larger farms in Uk but by time get in all the kit to min-til not far off a cross slot and still need to finance big ignorant cultivations tractor vs 1 drill and medium sized tractor tricked out with rtk iykwim.
Personaly for ireland something cheap to keep cost down on generaly smaller acerages, just like 750 series as cheap as chips when go looking and dozens of mods etc from the states etc as wel as cheaper parts

JD 750A is a good drill but it's not a one size fits all kinda drill.
To me white straw cereals will do ok with it once you are on reasonably easy ground. I have to agree with you on rtk to make the system work.
In my world I can't be rid of the plough because of maize and sunflowers. They are just lazy rooters and need the help of ploughing.

When on winter cropping min till works well but one needs patience on spring crops. Something I can't afford!

99nsr125

pajero12 wrote: »

3. Those that want to avoid 3 weeks of stone picking

You have no friends when you're picking stones.

larrymiller

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Ye gets in one or two students and has few others.
Mainly all autumn planted though.
Never more than 3 or 4 in the field at sowing time

have you seen furlong-cooney set up greengrass? i reckon he could be near the 3000 acre mark.

GRASSorMUCK

sheebadog wrote: »

JD 750A is a good drill but it's not a one size fits all kinda drill.
To me white straw cereals will do ok with it once you are on reasonably easy ground. I have to agree with you on rtk to make the system work.
In my world I can't be rid of the plough because of maize and sunflowers. They are just lazy rooters and need the help of ploughing.

When on winter cropping min till works well but one needs patience on spring crops. Something I can't afford!

I get you some guys have dale drills sitting in sheds along with others to suit the conditions, its just next thing you look round and the yards full of toys to suit everyfarm has their own limit.
Personaly the problem on our farm is horrific Blackgrass due to previous management had a WW/WOSR with Sbeans ahead of the milling wheats. Was a good earner then but now costing us the new team on average 140 pound/ha for 80-90% control in WW. Against advice the boss baught a vaddy topdown but just not able to move heavy clay of which 80% farm is so maybe a keeble machine but need ultra low disturbance tines to lower the movement on surface to hammer the set of discs in top 3''. Have spread rotations to 60/40 spring crops and alot of cover cropping but may need rye grass to get ahead in a few field imo.

Idealy we will go no-til in 2/3 years when some other kit renewals fall into place, but last summer we ploughed few hundred acre of Blackgrass/osr companion cropping :pac::pac: on heavy clays in June which then baked hard until Sept when we regretfully battered it down with 2 passes of power harrow, vaddy rexus-twin each to something that resembled a cultivated field at great exspense, the boss did manage to convince the owner to come round to our way of thinking.
We have a 40yr seed bank built up in the soil of Blackgrass seed from using lots of chems and cultivations , keep it to the surface and try let nature help with kinder techniques and more natural cropping regime

GRASSorMUCK

larrymiller wrote: »

have you seen furlong-cooney set up greengrass? i reckon he could be near the 3000 acre mark.

Is it true he's baught a cross slot? heard rummors from near home!

sheebadog

GRASSorMUCK wrote: »

Is it true he's baught a cross slot? heard rummors from near home!

Heard that also.
On the whole BG issues I think grass just has to come back into the rotation.
I'm just a bit cynical when guys preach on about the whole min till / soil condition thing. Then in the same breath tell you how the black grass is glyphosate resistant on their farm.

Spring cropping just has to become a bigger player in the system. I have had poor enough results min tilling spring crops. Fine in a kind spring when rain comes in the right time. Ploughing warms up and dries up the soil so much quicker.

conor t

@grassormuck

Do you have any trouble with the discs getting blocked on the jd750?

larrymiller

GRASSorMUCK wrote: »

Is it true he's baught a cross slot? heard rummors from near home!

I'm not sure, I've seen his lads till with something that looked like a spaceship being pulled by a machine on tracks and then I scrapped off the side of the ditch gawking at him haha!

Some outfit he has all the same, and some single farm payment!

micraX

larrymiller wrote: »

I'm not sure, I've seen his lads till with something that looked like a spaceship being pulled by a machine on tracks and then I scrapped off the side of the ditch gawking at him haha!

Some outfit he has all the same, and some single farm payment!

Where is he based?

larrymiller

micraX wrote: »

Where is he based?

He's from Wexford has his set up outside enniscorthy, he also bought the enniscorthy, new Ross and bunclodey co-ops off of wfc

micraX

larrymiller wrote: »

He's from Wexford has his set up outside enniscorthy, he also bought the enniscorthy, new Ross and bunclodey co-ops off of wfc

Wfc? I see, bit far away to go for a spin. Haha

larrymiller

micraX wrote: »

Wfc? I see, bit far away to go for a spin. Haha

That's just the co-ops he has land taken all over, there's an interesting video on youtube of him harvesting must look it up

Greengrass1

larrymiller wrote: »

have you seen furlong-cooney set up greengrass? i reckon he could be near the 3000 acre mark.

Yes know them very well. Some set up alright. Gas two of the biggest class combines in the country. Shame to see all the forage rape turned into the ground every spring when lads could graze it for them.
Owns a share of target too

larrymiller

micraX wrote: »

Wfc? I see, bit far away to go for a spin. Haha

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl6RGoEqawQ&feature=youtu.be

larrymiller

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Yes know them very well. Some set up alright. Gas two of the biggest class combines in the country. Shame to see all the forage rape turned into the ground every spring when lads could graze it for them.
Owns a share of target too

Why is there fodder rape in it?

That's right all the fert they have is target afaik!
Heard they have land out foreign aswell but weather it's true i don't know probably not

Juniorhurler

Seemingly has a good skelp of ground in Poland. Up to 2000 acres one lad told me and another from down beside hom tells me it could be up to 5000ac out there.

Greengrass1

larrymiller wrote: »

Why is there fodder rape in it?

That's right all the fert they have is target afaik!
Heard they have land out foreign aswell but weather it's true i don't know probably not

Have to have a certain amount if your tillage ground green or something like that. Could be up to your ankles in December but he ploughs it back down

larrymiller

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Have to have a certain amount if your tillage ground green or something like that. Could be up to your ankles in December but he ploughs it back down

Oh I didn't think he ploughed his ground.
A bordering farmer could snake the cattle in for a quick graze , shur he'd never know

larrymiller

Juniorhurler wrote: »

Seemingly has a good skelp of ground in Poland. Up to 2000 acres one lad told me and another from down beside hom tells me it could be up to 5000ac out there.

Some land!
Fair play to him that he's still going strong, a lot of big lads fell to the ground when banks stopped lending

Greengrass1

larrymiller wrote: »

Oh I didn't think he ploughed his ground.
A bordering farmer could snake the cattle in for a quick graze , shur he'd never know

Well when I say plough I mean what ever way he sows ha.
Ye a lad my discussion group said they would be the finest crops of rape and ye can't touch them ha

Greengrass1

larrymiller wrote: »

Some land!
Fair play to him that he's still going strong, a lot of big lads fell to the ground when banks stopped lending

He diversified though. Lot if lads only had the hand in the one pie. Fair achuevment to have that lump of land.

larrymiller

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Well when I say plough I mean what ever way he sows ha.
Ye a lad my discussion group said they would be the finest crops of rape and ye can't touch them ha

Ah yeah I know what ya mean, I seen a yoke on a tractor of his, the tractor was the size of my house And I wouldn't be able to tell u what was behind it!
Yeah I heard there's a few of them in it alright.
I wonder does he pay any better than glanbia for tonne of barley

GRASSorMUCK

Ay from what i was told he cultivates with top-down at 4'' puts in cover crops to build fertility ( had more than fodder rape in? usually legume mix aswel?) then in spring goes to 8'' in loosened sod. That was 5yrs ago mind!, wouldn't need to many ponies on his predominantly light ground as a cross slot barely works the soil for a big width 8/9m i heard.
The lexions are on claases 5yr purchase hire deal thats almost Bankrupted claas, obsessed with selling new kit but they're yards are full of 9-5 yr old kit no-one want as worn out. Alot of the big guys over here usualy run one mega machine and one mid ranged to deal with short work and obsticales to keep larger machne at 100% output whole time why did he get 2 780's? and then just 35fters as will never get max output. Not like he's short on drying capacity if a 2012 rolls round again.

GRASSorMUCK

conor t wrote: »

@grassormuck

Do you have any trouble with the discs getting blocked on the jd750?

Not realy but only using it in anger for 12 months on a trial block with the bloke over the hedge, he's been using it for 10 years, has 1 or 2 other machines for wet conditions but also uses a vaddy carrier with crosscutter fitted for chopping up crop materials and a tillso staw rake also to even out thrash across the field. Most guys back home couldn't justify that to be fair.

GRASSorMUCK

sheebadog wrote: »

Heard that also.
On the whole BG issues I think grass just has to come back into the rotation.
I'm just a bit cynical when guys preach on about the whole min till / soil condition thing. Then in the same breath tell you how the black grass is glyphosate resistant on their farm.

Spring cropping just has to become a bigger player in the system. I have had poor enough results min tilling spring crops. Fine in a kind spring when rain comes in the right time. Ploughing warms up and dries up the soil so much quicker.

Have heard whispers of Bg glyphosate resistance but these are from the guys that apply very regularly at very low-rates ie. same reason Atlantis failed so quickly so take it with a pinch of salt. Guys over here look to the chem shed rather than good practice, i would reckon on most farms that min-til use Glyphosate at any rate at least once per year on every single acre, thats not sustainable until something breaks it down!. I have sen on one field we grassed it' take PRG 3 years to smoother out BG farmed by a guy i believe to be a good grass grower its just so aggresive, we regularly see a new flush of seedlings 3-5 days after cultivating in August!

Greengrass1

What's this cross slot yoke your all on about?

frazzledhome

Greengrass1 wrote: »

What's this cross slot yoke your all on about?

It's for helping a cow with tetney!!!!!!

GRASSorMUCK

http://www.crossslot.com/drills
Most Direct drillers have wet dreams about this, but they cost iirc 25k per meter.
They are a good piece of kit with a very smart coulter design that bumps up the price