Quitting the Teaching Profession

maynooth_rules

Just wondering how many people get this feeling? I am currently getting it on an almost daily basis and have reached the point where I simply do not like or enjoy my job anymore. Im in a DEIS school and there are just days where I am struggling to put up with the disrespect and abuse that is hurled my way. Might sound a tad ridiculous as I am quite young, but I can feel my health suffering in this job.
If I was asked hand on heart why I am teaching now, Id struggle to answer the question, and that depresses me. I am 31 and the thoughts of staying in this career till 65 is just not something I like to think about
My question is, is there career guidance that an adult can get? My subjects are History and Geography and I loved all elements of both subjects but simply dont know how or where to pursue both subjects outside of teaching.
Where does one find out informations about education jobs outside the classroom.
Is there any other careers that someone with a PGDE can get into quite easily?

RingTheAlarm!

I know the feeling OP. Having to listen apologise to 13/14 year olds after being lectured on how to do my job and no support being given to me was a decisive factor for me. I could have written the exact same post not so long ago. You definitely can get into different areas with History and Geography. Take a look at doing some postgrads maybe? Also, a lot of graduate programmes just look for people with a basic degree and you can build on it from there.
I left my teaching job in Ireland 2 years ago and I don't regret it. It's nice to have all the hair on my head, a smile on my face and clear skin again

KrustyBurger

There are plenty of people who specialise in Adult Career Guidance. A quick google will show the companies/people in your area. Although you can't beat the personal recommendation.

Off the top of my head you could choose to do a postgrad and specialise in an area of geography or history e.g. here's recently completed theses in TCD and here's some programmes from UCD.

Would the 2 subjects make a good foundation for working in development?

There are plenty of opportunities should you decide to pursue another path.

maynooth_rules

RingTheAlarm! wrote: »

I know the feeling OP. Having to listen apologise to 13/14 year olds after being lectured on how to do my job and no support being given to me was a decisive factor for me. I could have written the exact same post not so long ago. You definitely can get into different areas with History and Geography. Take a look at doing some postgrads maybe? Also, a lot of graduate programmes just look for people with a basic degree and you can build on it from there.
I left my teaching job in Ireland 2 years ago and I don't regret it. It's nice to have all the hair on my head, a smile on my face and clear skin again

Nice to hear from someone who was in the same position. I must be horrible to live with for my partner as she has to listen to me moan about the day I have and has to put up with me when I come home close to tears.
Your last line actually sums it up. I KNOW my health is suffering big time in teaching.

Would the 2 subjects make a good foundation for working in development?

Forgive my stupidity, but what do you mean by development

KrustyBurger

Development: as in Trocaire etc.

Toto Wolfcastle

Yeah I left too and I've never been happier. I haven't regretted my decision for a second. I just wasn't enjoying it and I felt that my happiness was more important.

RingTheAlarm!

KrustyBurger is right, Trócaire and co look for teachers every now and again for jobs in development education which is actually quite interesting! Something to look into.
I swore that I would never let myself get that down again and I haven't looked back. Be selfish, have a bit of respect for yourself and get the fúck out! Teachers are a lot more respected in other areas of work too believe it or not

rainbowtrout

Bobblehead Panda wrote: »

Yeah I left too and I've never been happier. I haven't regretted my decision for a second. I just wasn't enjoying it and I felt that my happiness was more important.

What are you doing now? You were English/Irish teacher if I remember rightly??

I've considered it, I have the first year of a two year MSc in Software Engineering completed, but other things have had me sidetracked at the moment. I'm finding that there just aren't enough hours in the day anymore to get anything done, CP and HRA has been a big change. I started the MSc when I was considering leaving a couple of years ago. It's an option I still want to have. I don't ever want to be in a position where I stay in the job because I need to pay the bills and don't have any other options, or that I'm in it so long that I can't consider another career.

Toto Wolfcastle

rainbowtrout wrote: »

What are you doing now? You were English/Irish teacher if I remember rightly??

Currently not working (by choice for a particular reason) but I've retrained in a completely different area (that I'd rather not mention) and I'll do something with that once I decide to go back to work.

maynooth_rules

RingTheAlarm! wrote: »

KrustyBurger is right, Trócaire and co look for teachers every now and again for jobs in development education which is actually quite interesting! Something to look into.
I swore that I would never let myself get that down again and I haven't looked back. Be selfish, have a bit of respect for yourself and get the fúck out! Teachers are a lot more respected in other areas of work too believe it or not

Certainly something to look into. My better half has a decent job that she loves, but even she has said she will support me 100% in what I do. She knows how utterly utterly miserable I am.
I do enjoy my subjects, and there are certain classes I enjoy, but because I am not a very strong disciplinarian by nature, some of my classes are a disaster. Just feel I'm at the age where i have to make a decision one way or the other over the next couple of years. Told my sister how I felt today and she said that life was too short,to go for something else and that teaching will always be there if I had a change of heart.

prancer

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Certainly something to look into. My better half has a decent job that she loves, but even she has said she will support me 100% in what I do. She knows how utterly utterly miserable I am.
I do enjoy my subjects, and there are certain classes I enjoy, but because I am not a very strong disciplinarian by nature, some of my classes are a disaster. Just feel I'm at the age where i have to make a decision one way or the other over the next couple of years. Told my sister how I felt today and she said that life was too short,to go for something else and that teaching will always be there if I had a change of heart.

Exactly, teaching will always be there. go explore. you could always go into planning or look at work with the council with those subjects. I know a teacher that started a youtube channel doing grinds just teaching the course and now has a sustainable career, teaching behind the screen everyday (she did so well, youtube pay her to put videos)- she too was unhappy and gave up her job.

I do love my job and where I am, it gets so tough each day- we have god awful fights amongst students in our school sometimes, its unreal and its not a DEIS school! It really can be disheartening.

You already know the answer inside, you just have to act on it.

KrustyBurger

Sorry I should have been more specific, when I mentioned development I wasn't necessarily thinking about teaching! I was thinking of someone working in development in other areas e.g. consulting about crops, farming, climate, (I thought geography might be a good starting point for this).

By the way you can do a postgrad in development in Kimmage, UCD, DCU etc. Here's a joint TCD/UCD course.

maynooth_rules

You already know the answer inside, you just have to act on it.

It does really come down to that. I do know the answer, the biggest thing is getting over the nervousness of saying that answer aloud and following through on it

endacl

I'm lucky. I teach music, and mostly one to one. When I see what my colleagues in the 'day school' have to deal with though...

Well, I wouldn't do it. I covered classes for JC & LC. Won't cover them again. And they were the 'interested' kids who chose the subject.

Teenagers are like dentists. As individuals, they can be quite pleasant people. Think of them as an archetype though, and you're not too far wrong...

prancer

maynooth_rules wrote: »

It does really come down to that. I do know the answer, the biggest thing is getting over the nervousness of saying that answer aloud and following through on it

I know but if you do go ahead with it, the relief you will get at the other side will be great.

Have you ever tried another school maybe or can you look to being redeployed? A newer school might lessen the stress.

I have only a few years teaching behind me but I already know I won't be here in 20 years time, even though I love it. I did a MLitt in Health Geography on the side in Reconfiguring the Health Service and to be honest Research is where I want to go but teaching is just here so I can rack up experience that if it fails in my next adventure, I can come back.

Believe me, the possiblilites are endless with the two subjects you have, especially geography. Even before I started teaching, geography was invaluable to me, getting me experience in other areas.

Maybe even a career break first to make sure its what you want?

seavill

Obviously not always possible but like the last poster said a change of school might do it if you can find one.

I was in a tough DEIS school in my previous school, I did like it there in a strange kind of a way but I was very strict and found it wore me down. I was there for 2 years but would have stayed had my hours maintained but I did find my stress levels and amount of sicknesses increasing with the pressures of the place. I enjoyed helping those kids that most had given up on but it certainly did take its tole on people.

I was lucky to find a replacement job with full hours 2 years ago. Although its not a perfect school I am really really enjoying it so far. The staff are great everything is a laugh, relaxed atmosphere, but the work still gets done. There are still the tough days there are certainly the tough kids as we get all types in my current place but I havn't been this happy in a long time.
Although I did love working in the DEIS school as well the stress levels were hard to maintain and if I compare to what I have no there is no comparison.

If you do love teaching I would try a change for next year if you can find one, if that doesn't work you could be working on a masters part time while moving somehwere else and if that fails move on then.
if you think teaching is for you but not necessarily there try something else, if you feel you need a break from it do move on, you need to be happy whatever you do but the change of scenery is amazing sometimes

ruahead

Only thing is, you can't leave till end of school year now. I'm leaving too but next notice is end of May to leave inJuly. Sometimes I don't think I'll make it through the day never mind rest of term. WORST JOB EVER

Kazbah

I sympathise. The thing about teaching is that the years can fly by because you've short term goals - make it to midterm/Easter/summer. If you're living for the holidays it's really not worth it. I think it's a pity that the general public think it can be a 'cushy number'. The unions should do more to highlight the stress we go through instead of only talking about pay & conditions.

maynooth_rules

Kazbah wrote: »

I sympathise. The thing about teaching is that the years can fly by because you've short term goals - make it to midterm/Easter/summer. If you're living for the holidays it's really not worth it. I think it's a pity that the general public think it can be a 'cushy number'. The unions should do more to highlight the stress we go through instead of only talking about pay & conditions.

This is exactly what I feel is happening. I am living my life waiting until the next break from teaching. I cant spend 30 odd years living like this. Its not fair on the kids I teach and certainly not fair on me. The last few days in school have just confirmed the feeling I have. My confidence has been shot, Im feeling miserable and the stress caused from teaching is effecting me.
Looked up some courses that I could do last night and the thought of actually starting them and not having to teach felt like a block was being lifted from my shoulders.
I feel somewhat guilty for feeling this. I had honourable ambitions in teaching but they have just evaporated from me

Toto Wolfcastle

If you're at the point where you're feeling so stressed that it's affecting your life outside of work, and your health, you should see your GP. No one should stay in a job that affects their health. If your GP is decent he or she will talk you through your options, and you have options. If you feel like you can't make it through the notice period, you don't have to wait. If it gets to the point where you need to be signed off work, then so be it. Remember, no job is worth risking your health. There are massive amounts of responsibility involved in teaching, and it's very easy to feel like you're letting people down by leaving, but in the long run no one benefits from you feeling that bad.

Millem

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Just wondering how many people get this feeling? I am currently getting it on an almost daily basis and have reached the point where I simply do not like or enjoy my job anymore. Im in a DEIS school and there are just days where I am struggling to put up with the disrespect and abuse that is hurled my way. Might sound a tad ridiculous as I am quite young, but I can feel my health suffering in this job.
If I was asked hand on heart why I am teaching now, Id struggle to answer the question, and that depresses me. I am 31 and the thoughts of staying in this career till 65 is just not something I like to think about
My question is, is there career guidance that an adult can get? My subjects are History and Geography and I loved all elements of both subjects but simply dont know how or where to pursue both subjects outside of teaching.
Where does one find out informations about education jobs outside the classroom.
Is there any other careers that someone with a PGDE can get into quite easily?

A lot of charities have "education officers". Basically they go around schools are give talks to raise awareness. We got in focus Ireland a few years ago and the girl was on a careers break from her teaching job. I also saw dogs trust advertisement when they first came to Ireland and they wanted a qualified teacher!

rainbowtrout

Millem wrote: »

A lot of charities have "education officers". Basically they go around schools are give talks to raise awareness. We got in focus Ireland a few years ago and the girl was on a careers break from her teaching job. I also saw dogs trust advertisement when they first came to Ireland and they wanted a qualified teacher!

I guess it makes sense. They are looking for people who are used to dealing with teenagers/children in a school setting, know how to present to them, are Garda vetted, are familiar with the way talks for students are carried out in schools etc.

Millem

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I guess it makes sense. They are looking for people who are used to dealing with teenagers/children in a school setting, know how to present to them, are Garda vetted, are familiar with the way talks for students are carried out in schools etc.

The lady we got in was probably in her 50s, she just said she needed a break from teaching! I would love the dogs trust one, you get to bring your dog/dogs to work

rainbowtrout

Millem wrote: »

The lady we got in was probably in her 50s, she just said she needed a break from teaching! I would love the dogs trust one, you get to bring your dog/dogs to work

Ya it sounds class, I have a few rescue dogs, being able to bring them to work would be great!

Millem

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Ya it sounds class, I have a few rescue dogs, being able to bring them to work would be great!

I know someone who went for it. You are based in the centre in north dublin and basically just wait for the phone calls to come, then you go out to visit schools (mostly primary) with dog/dogs. You go all around Ireland, when you are not out and about you develop school programmes! Salary was grand (not as much as my salary now but you probably get more net as you don't have to pay PRD!) and they pay vhi and pension!

evolving_doors

Don't forget the presentation skills that teachers have... Basically you are doing a thirty minute pitch for at least 9 times a day...to what can be a disinterested audience.

A few nonteacher friends say they dread giving presentations and go into a cold sweat when their time comes around (and they get twice my pay!). I know its not the be all and end all but it is a skill that weve honed over a long period.

spurious

It always surprises me how many of my non-teaching friends, who, while very competent in their own areas, are terrified of speaking in front of a group.

Kazbah

LOL I know one or two teachers that are terrified of speaking in front of a group!

I'd second whoever recommended you go to your GP. A short term course of SSRIs could help.
I'd also recommend taking your 4 free Carecall sessions. I think everyone should take them. A great service!

I've become less stressed at work by only focusing on the areas within my control. It's easy to become negative/demotivated by a school environment.
I've also tightened up the consequences/sanctions I have and after a tough teething period students are way more aware of my boundaries/limitations.
Saying everything. I think it's a bloody hard, mentally draining job!!

trihead

This seems to be a very popular topic at the moment not just on boards... think it shows how the job has changed of late. I think you should consider applying for a career break ( assuming you are permanent) the closing date was 01 March but you can always put in a late application and see what happens.

maynooth_rules

trihead wrote: »

This seems to be a very popular topic at the moment not just on boards... think it shows how the job has changed of late. I think you should consider applying for a career break ( assuming you are permanent) the closing date was 01 March but you can always put in a late application and see what happens.

Im not permanent. Have a contract until the end of August. Im still two years away from a CID also

painauchocolat

It sounds like you're having a really awful time. I worked for one year in what I found to be a really tough school. Others working there at the time didn't seem to have half the problems I was having, and I really questioned my abilities. It was a one year contract, and quite early on I decided that no matter what, I would not return for a second year. Teaching jobs in my subjects were like hens' teeth at the time, so my plan was to return to the types of jobs I'd done during college summers (retail and office admin) and focus on progressing there. As it happened, I got a job in a different school, just a few days before the end of the summer holidays. Even though it had a similar profile, I found it so much easier and have stayed there. A combination of a more social and supportive staff and a better mix of classes made all the difference. I'd also learned from my experiences in the previous school.

The point I'm slowly working around to is a) don't stay somewhere that makes you sick with nerves. You won't get paid any more, no one will be impressed at your staying power etc. And b) even if a different school isn't an option, you're a university educated professional. You have a wide range of careers open to you, very few of which carry the daily stress of teaching in the initial stages when you're trying to find your feet.

Good luck!

Peter Flynt

This is a very useful thread.

Teachers have basically been told to shut up and get on with it from the "Aren't you lucky to have a job" brigade.

Told by their unions, management, inspectors, the Minister, "journalists" who are in the pockets of politicians etc. .

For many the last 6 years have made their job intolerable.

There appears also to be no recognition from the DES or the Teaching Council of the continuing deteriorating situation in teaching. . . . No support mechanisms have been set up to help teachers leave.

So this thread is very welcome.

acequion

Peter Flynt wrote: »

This is a very useful thread.

Teachers have basically been told to shut up and get on with it from the "Aren't you lucky to have a job" brigade.

Told by their unions, management, inspectors, the Minister, "journalists" who are in the pockets of politicians etc. .

For many the last 6 years have made their job intolerable.

There appears also to be no recognition from the DES or the Teaching Council of the continuing deteriorating situation in teaching. . . . No support mechanisms have been set up to help teachers leave.

So this thread is very welcome.

I totally agree.It's actually a relief that people are starting to put up their hands and admit that the job is intolerable and that they want out.A relief,but also extremely sad.What I find telling, is when the OP said that his partner has a "decent" job, which is quite obviously not in teaching.

7 or 8 years ago teaching was a decent job.It was always hard and required a great deal of hard work and commitment,but that was compensated by decent pay and conditions,the respect and good will of society in general, and it was a lot more family friendly than now. Now,as a result of the savage attacks of the past few years,it's fast becoming a job nobody with any self respect will want to do.

The OP admits that he's not a great disciplinarian.In the past the job accommodated different classroom styles and provided you weren't a walk over, you didn't have to be a super bouncer to control a class.Nowadays with huge class sizes and zero support for the teacher,it's sink or swim and many, who're just learning how to swim, are quickly devoured by the sharks.Add to that, the massive extra workload of recent years,the worries for the future, the constant teacher bashing and it's no wonder teachers' health is suffering and many want out.

There is no doubt whatsoever that Ireland has been blessed with exceptionally bright,talented teachers who've had an extremely positive influence on their students both inside and outside the classroom. Sadly,that calibre of person will no longer want to be a teacher. Why would they? What's in it for them now? And who'll be the losers when that asshole Quinn and his ilk,in addition to corrupt union leaders, are long gone?

OP,think of yourself,your partner and your future and get the hell out!

donegal11

Peter Flynt wrote: »

There appears also to be no recognition from the DES or the Teaching Council of the continuing deteriorating situation in teaching. . . . No support mechanisms have been set up to help teachers leave.

What do you suggest? There's already career breaks and early retirements available. The OP is only on a short term contract.If you just graduated and find that teaching isn't for you(which happens often) what do expect the DES to do? any employer isn't going to incentivise productive workers to leave(not even redundancy),should it not be the unions helping?

The teaching council would probably say the mickey mouse workshops are supporting new teachers too:rolleyes:.

Peter Flynt

donegal11 wrote: »

What do you suggest? There's already career breaks and early retirements available. The OP is only on a short term contract.If you just graduated and find that teaching isn't for you(which happens often) what do expect the DES to do? any employer isn't going to incentivise productive workers to leave(not even redundancy),should it not be the unions helping?

The teaching council would probably say the mickey mouse workshops are supporting new teachers too:rolleyes:.

This is not just about teachers starting their careers. It is about ALL teachers at various stages of the career.

The DES have been busy making worse the terms and conditions of employment whilst increasing the demands and stress levels of all teachers to the extent that many experienced teachers have had enough. They need help and support in leaving teaching. . . but the DES and the Teaching Council don't give a toss. The unions are irrelevant.

The Minister cannot just dramatically increase the demands and stress levels of teachers, cut their sick entitlements to 7 uncertified over 24 months and then say "nothing to do with me".

One day a teacher will take the DES to court and sue over illness suffered as a result of excess stress. Then the floodgates will open.

seavill

Peter Flynt wrote: »

The Minister cannot just dramatically increase the demands and stress levels of teachers, cut their sick entitlements to 7 uncertified over 24 months and then say "nothing to do with me".

I think he can, and in fairness he just did several times.

I do agree with the last poster that it is more to do with the unions than the Department.
The unions can have 2 jobs here.
1. Fight the department on these issues like increasing workload and stress on teachers as you have mentioned
2. Put in place extra things for their members. I think the union have forgotten they are there to serve their paying members. They are there to represent and help their members. The CareCall thing is one way they do this but if for example there are large numbers of teachers looking to leave then they surely have a responsibility to set up an information section on their website (at an absolute minimum) along with someone in head office trained in career advice for someone looking to move on (again in fairness head office would really have to answer the phones first but after that stage has been achieved they could have someone to advise)

Peter Flynt

seavill wrote: »

I think he can, and in fairness he just did several times.

I think you're missing the point. Yes conditions have been made worse but the minister is responsible entirely. That opens up a possible future legal challenge in my view.

I do agree with the last poster that it is more to do with the unions than the Department.
The unions can have 2 jobs here.
1. Fight the department on these issues like increasing workload and stress on teachers as you have mentioned
2. Put in place extra things for their members. I think the union have forgotten they are there to serve their paying members. They are there to represent and help their members. The CareCall thing is one way they do this but if for example there are large numbers of teachers looking to leave then they surely have a responsibility to set up an information section on their website (at an absolute minimum) along with someone in head office trained in career advice for someone looking to move on (again in fairness head office would really have to answer the phones first but after that stage has been achieved they could have someone to advise)

Unions are not employers of teachers.

They have no responsibility in terms of the health and mental well-being of teachers.

If teachers want to leave the profession then that's a damning indictment of their uselessness over the past 6 years.

seavill

Peter Flynt wrote: »

I think you're missing the point. Yes conditions have been made worse but the minister is responsible entirely. That opens up a possible future legal challenge in my view.



Unions are not employers of teachers.

They have no responsibility in terms of the health and mental well-being of teachers.

If teachers want to leave the profession then that's a damning indictment of their uselessness over the past 6 years.

Ok

acequion

What is CareCall? Becaue,as well as mechanisms needing to be put in place to facilitate teachers wanting to leave,something also needs to be there for teachers who don't want to leave, but who feel that the stress intolerable and that they're up against a brick wall. Does anyone know if such a service is available for teachers? Because,if so,I've never heard.

I think everyone likes to put a brave face on things. There is this sense that we must suck it all up and keep moving on. But moving on to what? You go into any typical school and teachers are whizzing around all business,corridors are spilling over with the teenage population of the country,you might meet a P or VP in a suit along the way [and that includes the female ones],messages are being relayed by intercom and notice boards are full of all the clubs and activities available to the students. Meanwhie that evening, the entire staff will be there until after 6 doing CP hours.This school,like most others, is a hive of industry and everything seems to be under control. But under the surface,many teachers are barely holding it together.

Peter is right. The responsibility lies with he employer,the minister.And there is no doubt that some one will haul his ass to court in due course, citing health threatening stress. How that will pan out is anyone's guess!

seavill

acequion wrote: »

What is CareCall? Becaue,as well as mechanisms needing to be put in place to facilitate teachers wanting to leave,something also needs to be there for teachers who don't want to leave, but who feel that the stress intolerable and that they're up against a brick wall. Does anyone know if such a service is available for teachers? Because,if so,I've never heard.

I think everyone likes to put a brave face on things. There is this sense that we must suck it all up and keep moving on. But moving on to what? You go into any typical school and teachers are whizzing around all business,corridors are spilling over with the teenage population of the country,you might meet a P or VP in a suit along the way [and that includes the female ones],messages are being relayed by intercom and notice boards are full of all the clubs and activities available to the students. Meanwhie that evening, the entire staff will be there until after 6 doing CP hours.This school,like most others, is a hive of industry and everything seems to be under control. But under the surface,many teachers are barely holding it together.

Peter is right. The responsibility lies with he employer,the minister.And there is no doubt that some one will haul his ass to court in due course, citing health threatening stress. How that will pan out is anyone's guess!

http://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/conditions-of-work/health-and-safety/employee-assistance-service/

From the ASTI website, we have a poster about it up in our school

I don't disagree that the health and mental health of the employees is something for the employers to be responsible for, but the point that they should provide a mechanism for people the leave is incorrect in my opinion

maynooth_rules

Thanks for replies everyone. Nice to know most are supportive. Surprised how many are understanding of the situation I currently find myself in. Just to clear up as well, I am not a newly qualified teacher. Been teaching nearly 6 years now (and depressingly still a distance away from a CID) and been in a number of different schools. I cant say that this quitting feeling I am currently having is completly as a result of the school I am in at the moment. I had the exact same feeling at the end of last year in a different school. I feel I have just reached the tipping point in regards to the complete and utter disrespect Im getting in this profession.
As acequion said, Its at the point where I have to think of whats best for my health and whats best for those close to me.
Had no idea that CareCall actually existed.
I have found a Masters course that I would love to do. I guess ill have a very tough call to make over the coming couple of months

Peter Flynt

seavill wrote: »

http://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/conditions-of-work/health-and-safety/employee-assistance-service/

From the ASTI website, we have a poster about it up in our school

I don't disagree that the health and mental health of the employees is something for the employers to be responsible for, but the point that they should provide a mechanism for people the leave is incorrect in my opinion

Why is it "incorrect"?

If anything it makes logical sense.

Why have a seriously overworked and possible depressed teacher going into classrooms when they want to leave themselves?

Why not arrange and set up support mechanisms for them to leave teaching?

It's a total cop out to state it would be "incorrect".

seavill

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Why is it "incorrect"?

If anything it makes logical sense.

Why have a seriously overworked and possible depressed teacher going into classrooms when they want to leave themselves?

Why not arrange and set up support mechanisms for them to leave teaching?

It's a total cop out to state it would be "incorrect".

As I said in my opinion it is incorrect. Whether my opinion is correct or incorrect is another matter but everyone here is entitled to their opinion even when it disagrees with yours.

If I worked long hours in a newsagents down the road would it be their responsibility to help me to get out of the job?

In relation to the comment about having possibly depressed teacher going into the classroom - why can they not just leave what is stopping them? why is the employer responsible for helping them to leave? What other employers in the country would help their employees to leave?

Peter Flynt

seavill wrote: »

As I said in my opinion it is incorrect. Whether my opinion is correct or incorrect is another matter but everyone here is entitled to their opinion even when it disagrees with yours.

If I worked long hours in a newsagents down the road would it be their responsibility to help me to get out of the job?

In relation to the comment about having possibly depressed teacher going into the classroom - why can they not just leave what is stopping them? why is the employer responsible for helping them to leave? What other employers in the country would help their employees to leave?

They can leave if they wish but perhaps they have responsibilities - mortgages, children to clothe and feed etc. . .

In whose interests is it that a teacher is forced to stay in a job they don't want to be in but are forced to do so out of financial constraints and a Minister and/or management who couldn't care less?

Personally I think that teachers (and other public servants) should be given the option to leave and have their pension contributions up to their recent pay check returned to them. They could then therefore make plans for a separate career out of teaching.

Of course that'll never happen. . . as we'd all be leaving in droves.

So let's keep uo the veneer that everyone is happy and that any form of helping those who are unhappy would be "incorrect".

seavill

Peter Flynt wrote: »

They can leave if they wish but perhaps they have responsibilities - mortgages, children to clothe and feed etc. . .

In whose interests is it that a teacher is forced to stay in a job they don't want to be in but are forced to do so out of financial constraints and a Minister and/or management who couldn't care less?.

Again I don't see how this is the responsibility of the employer. All working people in whatever job they are in have financial responsibilities whether it be loans, mortgage, children, rent etc. etc.

Again no one is forcing anyone to stay.

You did not answer any of my previous questions which are at the base of my point. Why are we special?

If I worked long hours in a newsagents down the road would it be their responsibility to help me to get out of the job?

In relation to the comment about having possibly depressed teacher going into the classroom - why can they not just leave what is stopping them? why is the employer responsible for helping them to leave? What other employers in the country would help their employees to leave?

Peter Flynt

seavill wrote: »

Again I don't see how this is the responsibility of the employer. All working people in whatever job they are in have financial responsibilities whether it be loans, mortgage, children, rent etc. etc.

Again no one is forcing anyone to stay.

You did not answer any of my previous questions which are at the base of my point. Why are we special?

If I worked long hours in a newsagents down the road would it be their responsibility to help me to get out of the job?

In relation to the comment about having possibly depressed teacher going into the classroom - why can they not just leave what is stopping them? why is the employer responsible for helping them to leave? What other employers in the country would help their employees to leave?

I gave you an option regarding pension contributions returned to the teacher who wants to leave. . . You can answer that if you wish

Working in a newsagent stacking shelves and selling chocolate bars is not equivalent to dealing and working and being responsible for the education of up to 200 children per week.

It's an awful stupid analogy if you don't mind me saying so.

The state - via the Minister - want to cut away and then stick their heads in the sand and pretend nothing is happening.

I think an option should be there to help teachers who wish to leave their jobs as it's all win-win for all as far as I can see as:

1 - the teacher feels they are getting their life back on track being out of the job.

2 - the child doesn't have togo into a classroom run by a demotivated and demoralised teacher.

3 - the parent is happy that their child is not being taught by a demotivated and demoralised teacher.

4 - It could free up many jobs for those looking to enter the profession.

Of course . . . The thickos in the DES can't think outside the box.

seavill

Ok you still havn't answered either of the two main questions you are just repeating yourself over and over so I'm not going to bother taking the thread off track with an over and back between us. I'll leave it at that with you

Peter Flynt

seavill wrote: »

Ok you still havn't answered either of the two main questions you are just repeating yourself over and over so I'm not going to bother taking the thread off track with an over and back between us. I'll leave it at that with you

<Mod snip> Let's not stoop to personal insults. Member has been banned.

PS - I answered your questions as to why it is in everyones interests that demotivated and demoralised teachers are supported if they wish to leave their jobs.

Ferg29

Hi. I can really sympathise with you. I'm 29 and have been teaching for the past 4 years. My health has deteriorated rapidly over the past couple of years and it is 100% to do with the job.....stress!!! That's why I have decided to quit the profession which has been a massive weight off my shoulders. My health is way more important and to be honest I've never been happier. It is unbelievable what stress can do to you. People outside of the profession really don't have a clue what work good teachers do.

Recently I returned from England where I have spent 6 months teaching History. I honestly felt the pressure I was under was insane for the money I was on. I ended up working ALL day every day and putting up with disrespect like what you experience. Obviously I got really sick as a result and it got to the point where I just didn't think it was worth it.

I also did a lot of subbing in DEIS schools before I went over and it was really tough. I have started applying for jobs outside the profession and am already getting some feedback. They have absolutely nothing to do with my qualification but working in rough schools made me really really unhappy. I really dont care what I get coz teaching has made me broke, ill and I had to move away from my friends and family just to work.

Life's too short. Your health and happiness is more important than any job!!!

ytareh

Sounds like you've made the right choice Ferg,good luck to you .What job areas are you exploring ?Had a particularly bad afternoon at school but feel 'tied down ' with over twenty years in 'profession'(Ha!-like Walmart calling their shelf stackers 'associates') and with family ,mortgage etc...Hopefully well over half way through career but goal posts are being changed at drop of a hat these days

mod snip

mod warning; please stay on topic: feel free to pm mods for questions regarding mod decisions

maynooth_rules

Ferg29 wrote: »

Hi. I can really sympathise with you. I'm 29 and have been teaching for the past 4 years. My health has deteriorated rapidly over the past couple of years and it is 100% to do with the job.....stress!!! That's why I have decided to quit the profession which has been a massive weight off my shoulders. My health is way more important and to be honest I've never been happier. It is unbelievable what stress can do to you. People outside of the profession really don't have a clue what work good teachers do.

Recently I returned from England where I have spent 6 months teaching History. I honestly felt the pressure I was under was insane for the money I was on. I ended up working ALL day every day and putting up with disrespect like what you experience. Obviously I got really sick as a result and it got to the point where I just didn't think it was worth it.

I also did a lot of subbing in DEIS schools before I went over and it was really tough. I have started applying for jobs outside the profession and am already getting some feedback. They have absolutely nothing to do with my qualification but working in rough schools made me really really unhappy. I really dont care what I get coz teaching has made me broke, ill and I had to move away from my friends and family just to work.

Life's too short. Your health and happiness is more important than any job!!!

We sound soooo alike. I too have experience teaching in England. Unenjoyable too.