contract rearing heifers

Miname

I know this has been discussed before And lads might be sick of it, but i am trying to do a rough costing on what it will cost to do this. I am hoping people here will pick holes it and maybe enlighten me a bit on it. When keeping the heifers we'll say the owner pays for all veterinary, dosing and ai'ing all other costs would be incurred by the farmer. working of 50 heifers arriving off milk and going back about to calve down.
First question is are there 2 different rates for keeping them (i.e. one for calves through to maidens and one for maidens through to springer) or is it a mediun charge that applies for all.
would 1.40 be out of the way, so everyone works out well or too much.
2. do they have to be cubicle trained and is there much to this.
3. what sort of quantities of meal would they eat to keep them on target. would .4 of a ton cover me
4. what sort of quantity of silage ground would need to be kept to winter these. would 30 acres of good silage be enough?

C4d78

Miname wrote: »

I know this has been discussed before And lads might be sick of it, but i am trying to do a rough costing on what it will cost to do this. I am hoping people here will pick holes it and maybe enlighten me a bit on it. When keeping the heifers we'll say the owner pays for all veterinary, dosing and ai'ing all other costs would be incurred by the farmer. working of 50 heifers arriving off milk and going back about to calve down.
First question is are there 2 different rates for keeping them (i.e. one for calves through to maidens and one for maidens through to springer) or is it a mediun charge that applies for all.
would 1.40 be out of the way, so everyone works out well or too much.
2. do they have to be cubicle trained and is there much to this.
3. what sort of quantities of meal would they eat to keep them on target. would .4 of a ton cover me
4. what sort of quantity of silage ground would need to be kept to winter these. would 30 acres of good silage be enough?

If the owner has to cover Ai vet etc then 1.4 is definitely too much. Would need to be closer to 1 euro.
.4 tonne of meal would be more than adequate. This figure would depend on how long you can keep them at grass and your grassland management skills or whether it not its a dry farm

Farmer Pudsey

At what age will calf go to rearer will the calf be tested to make sure she has got adequate clostrum. We will presume that calf goes to rearer at 10 weeks. Rearer to keep heifer until Jan 1 before calving. As rearer will not have cubicles etc the heifer may be taken back earlier..

Only idiots will rear calves for a euro/day. We all need a margin. Rented land is making 150-200/year so why would you rear dairy heifers for nothing. A lot will depend on how long you have to winter for we will presume that it will be 130 days. we will presume that heifers are 300kgs at housing for first winter and will need to gain 50kgs over housing period. They will consume about 6.5kg DM/day 2kgs of ration and silage. I will cost off bale silage as this will be set up of most rearers. A bale will do 40 heifers one day so at a cost of 25/bale it will cost 63c/day for silage and 54c for ration ([EMAIL="2kg/day@270/ton"]2kg/day@270/ton[/EMAIL]). Wintering costs will be 152 for first winter.

To get calf to first winter assuming housing is mid november and that arrival date was mid april 270 days@ 70c/day for grass and ration is 190 euro. The following the heifer will be left off 25 of march and housed the 20th of october. 210 days at 1 euro/day. They are housed from the 20th October until Jan1 70 days at 2 euro/day 140 euro.

Total costs 190+152+210+140= 692 euro. Margin for rearer to cover labour fixed costs and profit 300 euro. So near enough 1K. Heifer on farm for 620 days so total cost 1.61/day.

C4d78

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

At what age will calf go to rearer will the calf be tested to make sure she has got adequate clostrum. We will presume that calf goes to rearer at 10 weeks. Rearer to keep heifer until Jan 1 before calving. As rearer will not have cubicles etc the heifer may be taken back earlier..

Only idiots will rear calves for a euro/day. We all need a margin. Rented land is making 150-200/year so why would you rear dairy heifers for nothing. A lot will depend on how long you have to winter for we will presume that it will be 130 days. we will presume that heifers are 300kgs at housing for first winter and will need to gain 50kgs over housing period. They will consume about 6.5kg DM/day 2kgs of ration and silage. I will cost off bale silage as this will be set up of most rearers. A bale will do 40 heifers one day so at a cost of 25/bale it will cost 63c/day for silage and 54c for ration ([EMAIL="2kg/day@270/ton"]2kg/day@270/ton[/EMAIL]). Wintering costs will be 152 for first winter.

To get calf to first winter assuming housing is mid november and that arrival date was mid april 270 days@ 70c/day for grass and ration is 190 euro. The following the heifer will be left off 25 of march and housed the 20th of october. 210 days at 1 euro/day. They are housed from the 20th October until Jan1 70 days at 2 euro/day 140 euro.

Total costs 190+152+210+140= 692 euro. Margin for rearer to cover labour fixed costs and profit 300 euro. So near enough 1K. Heifer on farm for 620 days so total cost 1.61/day.

So total cost to owner:
10 week old calf 400
Contract rearer 1k
Ai, Doses,veterinary 150
1550
If thats the case id prefer to sell the calf for the 400 and buy a freshly calved down heifer for 1200-1300 euros.
Why bother with all the hassle of contract rearing?
The figures don't stack up if famer had to pay 1.61/day and also cover ai, veterinary and doses etc.

Damo810

How many herds would be rearing 50 plus heifers? Who picks up the cost of dead calf losses too? What happens in the case of disease outbreak?

blue5000

This is all a bit new to us, another potential pitfall is can a rearer take in heifers from more than one dairy farmer? Also will a dairy farmer expect a rearer to have no cattle of their own on the farm.

C0N0R

C4d78 wrote: »

So total cost to owner:
10 week old calf 400
Contract rearer 1k
Ai, Doses,veterinary 150
1550
If thats the case id prefer to sell the calf for the 400 and buy a freshly calved down heifer for 1200-1300 euros.
Why bother with all the hassle of contract rearing?
The figures don't stack up if famer had to pay 1.61/day and also cover ai, veterinary and doses etc.

Freshly calved heifer costing 1300, or your own heifer calving costing 1550, what value do you place on that heifers calf? What price do you pay for a closed herd? People have to realise for contract rearing to work it will cost the dairy farmer more than it costs him to rear his own stock, the benefit from it is the ability to milk more cows and still keep a closed system. If you want to skimp on the cost of contract rearing will you get the same quality stock back.

C0N0R

Damo810 wrote: »

How many herds would be rearing 50 plus heifers? Who picks up the cost of dead calf losses too? What happens in the case of disease outbreak?

In nz as long as long as the reader can provide tags there are no problems with acceptable deaths. From what I've heard re disease outbreaks if a contract rearer has only young stock from one farm a special arrangement can be sorted with the department. Don't quote me on this though.

C4d78

Contracts have to be set up in such a way that rewards good performance.
A bonus/penalty system would apply to
1. Conception rate
2. Target weights
The issue of other cattle on the farm would be a matter for owner and rearer to reach agreement.
Ideally the owner would provide the right quantity of cattle to rearer to stock his farm to max. This would be difficult in a lot of cases however. This would be where the problem would come in owner probably wants no mixing with other animals and rearer would in many instances have enough land to acquire from a few separate herds. Disease issues become a problem then.

C4d78

C0N0R wrote: »

Freshly calved heifer costing 1300, or your own heifer calving costing 1550, what value do you place on that heifers calf? What price do you pay for a closed herd? People have to realise for contract rearing to work it will cost the dairy farmer more than it costs him to rear his own stock, the benefit from it is the ability to milk more cows and still keep a closed system. If you want to skimp on the cost of contract rearing will you get the same quality stock back.

Well I'd prefer a freshly calved heifer any day and I'd forego the opportunity cost of the calf. How many heifers go wrong a week either side of calving.
It would cost me 1550 to get my own heifer back on say 1st Jan as used in this example and may not calve till mid February.
1300 or 1400 is all of a sudden becoming very cheap for a calved down heifer that's giving you an immediate return the day you bring her home.
Obviously I'd prefer a closed herd but
not at those sums.

jaymla627

C4d78 wrote: »

Well I'd prefer a freshly calved heifer any day and I'd forego the opportunity cost of the calf. How many heifers go wrong a week either side of calving.
It would cost me 1550 to get my own heifer back on say 1st Jan as used in this example and may not calve till mid February.
1300 or 1400 is all of a sudden becoming very cheap for a calved down heifer that's giving you an immediate return the day you bring her home.
Obviously I'd prefer a closed herd but
not at those sums.

Your basically looking for someone to subsidise your heifer rearing costs and do it cheaper then yourself, I'd also be very skeptical of calved heifer prices staying at 1,300 post quotas if milk price stays anyway reasonable 1700-1800 will probably become the norm, having bought in cows/heifers last year to establish a herd and all the associated problems that occured herd health wise, I wouldn't take freshly calved heifers/cows from another outside herd for free, their is a lot to be said for running a closed herd.

mahoney_j

Contract rearing heifers through to calving is sonething that really interests me but trying to find a really good stockman who would treat these like his own is the problem.i take great pride in the way my heifers are reared at the moment and like to push them with high intakes of milk powder as calves and high protein meal with grass to grow a frame.weighed my maidens this earl at turnout a month later than normal and the weighed from 317 kg to 380 kg.withvan average of 338 kg a month before breeding

bbam

Surely the dairy operator should also be looking at the opportunity gained to run more dairy cows since they aren't rearing replacments on farm..

And the genetics guarentee of the replacment heifer since it is of their own choosing..

I would see the ~€1.60 a fair number.

I would also agree with a penalty/bonus figure based on weight targets and mortality.

Dairy men need to see this as a service being provided to them, not a favour because the beef men have their backs to the wall anyway !

Farmer Pudsey

Contract rearing of heifers will be totally different to the summer grazing of yearling heifers that goes on at present. This is where mostly lads that want to collect SFP and DA take in heifers and summer graze with owner of heifers keeping a close eye if not actually doing all the herding.

C4d78 no dairy farmer will sell his best heifers he will sell those whose mothers have issue's that he will want to breed out of his herd. While you may win in the shortterm in the longterm your herd quality may suffer. However it is up to ever farmer to make these choices.

Lots of dairy farmers will have choices to make where is it more advantagous to maximise milk production on milking platform and out source certain tasks such as maize silage or other crop production, milking, feeding, grass managment or heifer rearing. It may no longer be feasible to do all tasks in house.

Another issue will be milk contract, some farmers fail to understand you will have to fill a minimum amount. Previously the co-op had no issue with you failing to fill quota, however now when prices are strong(it will also be when replacments are most expensive) they will expect to fill your minimum milk allotment. It will be like forward selling grain.

If you totally outsource heifer rearing the biggist issues will be at what stage calf is taken, preformance, and AI or stock bull. Most smaller drystock farmers will be working parttime and will not want calves before 10-14 weeks of age. Before that mortality rates will be a huge issue. Next is that the dairy farmer will want targets hit as he wants heifer to be calving down at the start of the milking season. Again part time farmers heifer rearinf will not want to be managing heat detection this leaves eith a stockbull or injecting heifers to bring them bulling, breeding in to AI and using a stock bull to mop up. It will not be cheap but then neith willcalved down heifers.

For all thsi dairy men will want gooid stockmen to cary out such an operation. The hard part is getting a 10 week old calf to the right weight at bulling. Most smaller drystock farmers will not have economy's of scale that present large dairy farmers have therefore there cost may seem high. however these drystock farmers will be taking a big risk in that at present when they sell in a mart or factory payment is an issue. What wil happen in a year of low prices and a dairy man wants his heifers back and ''I will pay you in May''. There will also be taxation issue for drystockmen who may have to destock another enterprise.

However I cannot see contract rearing costing less than 1.5/day if it costs less then the rearer is working for nothing

freedominacup

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Contract rearing of heifers will be totally different to the summer grazing of yearling heifers that goes on at present. This is where mostly lads that want to collect SFP and DA take in heifers and summer graze with owner of heifers keeping a close eye if not actually doing all the herding.

C4d78 no dairy farmer will sell his best heifers he will sell those whose mothers have issue's that he will want to breed out of his herd. While you may win in the shortterm in the longterm your herd quality may suffer. However it is up to ever farmer to make these choices.

Lots of dairy farmers will have choices to make where is it more advantagous to maximise milk production on milking platform and out source certain tasks such as maize silage or other crop production, milking, feeding, grass managment or heifer rearing. It may no longer be feasible to do all tasks in house.

Another issue will be milk contract, some farmers fail to understand you will have to fill a minimum amount. Previously the co-op had no issue with you failing to fill quota, however now when prices are strong(it will also be when replacments are most expensive) they will expect to fill your minimum milk allotment. It will be like forward selling grain.

If you totally outsource heifer rearing the biggist issues will be at what stage calf is taken, preformance, and AI or stock bull. Most smaller drystock farmers will be working parttime and will not want calves before 10-14 weeks of age. Before that mortality rates will be a huge issue. Next is that the dairy farmer will want targets hit as he wants heifer to be calving down at the start of the milking season. Again part time farmers heifer rearinf will not want to be managing heat detection this leaves eith a stockbull or injecting heifers to bring them bulling, breeding in to AI and using a stock bull to mop up. It will not be cheap but then neith willcalved down heifers.

For all thsi dairy men will want gooid stockmen to cary out such an operation. The hard part is getting a 10 week old calf to the right weight at bulling. Most smaller drystock farmers will not have economy's of scale that present large dairy farmers have therefore there cost may seem high. however these drystock farmers will be taking a big risk in that at present when they sell in a mart or factory payment is an issue. What wil happen in a year of low prices and a dairy man wants his heifers back and ''I will pay you in May''. There will also be taxation issue for drystockmen who may have to destock another enterprise.

However I cannot see contract rearing costing less than 1.5/day if it costs less then the rearer is working for nothing

At €1.50/day what's he working for? With your €300 margin he might be getting to €15k on 50 heifers. Assuming he's not going to stock to the hilt you would be assuming around 70 acres under the 100 animals between calves and 1-2 yr olds. @ €200 rent (much more is freely available in this area) he gets €14k tax free if on a longish lease. So he works his job and then spends all his free time working for somewhere between 50 cent and €1/hr to rear someone elses stock and generates a tax bill for himself. I thought there might be something in this lark to entice beef farmers to do it but I wouldn't ask anyone to do it at these rates. And the mad thing is if a guy milking is marginal about taking on extra labour he could justify some of the cost by rearing his own heifers even renting ground esp if we are talking about 50+ at the 1.50/day rate.

Farmer Pudsey

freedominacup wrote: »

At €1.50/day what's he working for? With your €300 margin he might be getting to €15k on 50 heifers. Assuming he's not going to stock to the hilt you would be assuming around 70 acres under the 100 animals between calves and 1-2 yr olds. @ €200 rent (much more is freely available in this area) he gets €14k tax free if on a longish lease. So he works his job and then spends all his free time working for somewhere between 50 cent and €1/hr to rear someone elses stock and generates a tax bill for himself. I thought there might be something in this lark to entice beef farmers to do it but I wouldn't ask anyone to do it at these rates. And the mad thing is if a guy milking is marginal about taking on extra labour he could justify some of the cost by rearing his own heifers even renting ground esp if we are talking about 50+ at the 1.50/day rate.

Most of the lads doing it will have SFP and DA that they want to keep secure. Also more efficent farmer that can keep costs low, first winter 100-110 day, keep out incalf heifers until mid November, make goodish quality silage(compared to your figure) to reduce meal cost for first winter, buy input (mainly fertlizer and feed) at compeditive prices, have good gain off grass especially in second spring and stock at over 2 LU/HA will make a decent margin.

Take a kad with a sixty acre farm keeping 50 inaclf heifers and heifer calves , the crucial time will be the autaum when he has both sets of cattle at maximum weight however build up a grass wedge after silage cutting and targeted fertlizer spreading may mean that he can cope. I find taht with a little ration (1kg/day) weanlings actuall do very well. Rearers may also fo for a mix of spring and autaum calving herds. Running this type of dry stock need not be time consuming and also you manage to keep your land in tip top shape.

This lad may well hit 400/heifer and assuming a SFP (maybe 300/HA), GLAS (3-4K) and DA(80/HA) would give a gross margin of 30-35K/year.

49801

C4d78 wrote: »

So total cost to owner:
10 week old calf 400
Contract rearer 1k
Ai, Doses,veterinary 150
1550
If thats the case id prefer to sell the calf for the 400 and buy a freshly calved down heifer for 1200-1300 euros.
Why bother with all the hassle of contract rearing?
The figures don't stack up if famer had to pay 1.61/day and also cover ai, veterinary and doses etc.

Many good points being made in this thread.
It must work for both parties

One advantage for the rearer as I see it is they do not have capital tied up in stock.

frazzledhome

49801 wrote: »

Many good points being made in this thread.
It must work for both parties

One advantage for the rearer as I see it is they do not have capital tied up in stock.

Top of the class, the one point everybody's missing.

While SFP is available this rearing won't work because a guy can sit on his ass and collect or rent out for 250 an acre. He'd be mad to do it

Farmer Pudsey

49801 wrote: »

Many good points being made in this thread.
It must work for both parties

One advantage for the rearer as I see it is they do not have capital tied up in stock.

Not having capital is a disadvantage. Take an average drystock of 60 acres with maybe 60 heifers or bullocks you could have anything from 50-60K tied up in cattle however on the accounts they may be valued lower at 20-25K. If you sell them you and did not replace a 30-40K tax issue might arise. Also as far as I know for SFP and DA you have to farm at your own risk.

For contract rearing to work in these cases cattle may have to come in at a book value and exit at a book value

frazzledhome wrote: »

Top of the class, the one point everybody's missing.

While SFP is available this rearing won't work because a guy can sit on his ass and collect or rent out for 250 an acre. He'd be mad to do it

The government is seriously looking at trying to discourage conacre renting. Lot of farmers are reluctant to long term lease. After the present debacle over SFP, DA some farmers will to consolidate these payments and to do so must carry out a certain level of farming. GLAS will not be available to you if you rent. After 2016 will the same rental values be there.

ellewood

Is anyone doing this-rearing heifers- as in bulling heifers only ie 14 month old heifers, keeping them from May to December.
If there is how are ye getting on? Any pitfalls or problems?
Tks

blue5000

freedominacup wrote: »

At €1.50/day what's he working for? With your €300 margin he might be getting to €15k on 50 heifers. Assuming he's not going to stock to the hilt you would be assuming around 70 acres under the 100 animals between calves and 1-2 yr olds. @ €200 rent (much more is freely available in this area) he gets €14k tax free if on a longish lease. So he works his job and then spends all his free time working for somewhere between 50 cent and €1/hr to rear someone elses stock and generates a tax bill for himself. I thought there might be something in this lark to entice beef farmers to do it but I wouldn't ask anyone to do it at these rates. And the mad thing is if a guy milking is marginal about taking on extra labour he could justify some of the cost by rearing his own heifers even renting ground esp if we are talking about 50+ at the 1.50/day rate.

Lot of food for thought here, a rearer would be better off just setting his farm. The only way this could work is if a dairy farmer is in a very intense dairying area where there is no land available to rent and a contract rearer is in an area of low rents, where maybe 100 miles away?

C4d78 wrote: »

Contracts have to be set up in such a way that rewards good performance.
A bonus/penalty system would apply to
1. Conception rate
2. Target weights
The issue of other cattle on the farm would be a matter for owner and rearer to reach agreement.
Ideally the owner would provide the right quantity of cattle to rearer to stock his farm to max. This would be difficult in a lot of cases however. This would be where the problem would come in owner probably wants no mixing with other animals and rearer would in many instances have enough land to acquire from a few separate herds. Disease issues become a problem then.

Very important points, suppose a suckler farmer sells off 100k worth of cattle to go contract rearing. What happens if milk prices collapse and dairy farmer has no money to pay the rearer or pulls all the heifers home leaving the rearer with an empty farm?

frazzledhome wrote: »

.

While SFP is available this rearing won't work because a guy can sit on his ass and collect or rent out for 250 an acre. He'd be mad to do it

SFP is going to drop for some ppl from 2015-2020. Mostly these are lads with >400 yoyo /ha. Rents are high at the moment, but it could all change in 5 yrs time.

rangler1

blue5000 wrote: »

Lot of food for thought here, a rearer would be better off just setting his farm. The only way this could work is if a dairy farmer is in a very intense dairying area where there is no land available to rent and a contract rearer is in an area of low rents, where maybe 100 miles away?
Very important points, suppose a suckler farmer sells off 100k worth of cattle to go contract rearing. What happens if milk prices collapse and dairy farmer has no money to pay the rearer or pulls all the heifers home leaving the rearer with an empty farm?
SFP is going to drop for some ppl from 2015-2020. Mostly these are lads with >400 yoyo /ha. Rents are high at the moment, but it could all change in 5 yrs time.

It's not simple feeding other peoples stock, I rented out my sheds for a few years and there wasn't too many that I'd want back for a second year, If you're making a commitment and selling off your stock, you'd want the payment up front so if they did go, you'd have some insurance.
We're farming because we want to work for ourselves, setting it and looking for a job would be a better option if we want to work for someone else

ellewood

So I take it you dont think its a runner rearing aomeones elses arock then:-)

Is there not a margin in it at E1.20 a day ?

rangler1

definitely not at €1.20/day

kevthegaff

what does it cost to rear a heifer to calving on your own land?

sheebadog

kevthegaff wrote: »

what does it cost to rear a heifer to calving on your own land?

€1550 on my own land.

rangler1

sheebadog wrote: »

€1550 on my own land.

Hopefully farmers will price it right before they tender for the job,
that it doesn't become a 'race to the bottom'.
They'll be providing management, labour, and land and it shouldn't be underestimated.

frazzledhome

rangler1 wrote: »

Hopefully farmers will price it right before they tender for the job,
that it doesn't become a 'race to the bottom'.
They'll be providing management, labour, and land and it shouldn't be underestimated.

You're back.

€1500 per heifer calved in lac 2

_Brian

It would need to be near or even €2 a day to be reasonably profitable.

Remember. The dairy lads are also gaining ground for their main enterprise so the cost of rearing for them will be somewhat offset by the increased profit opportunity.

So if your rearing 40 heifers for a dairy man, he's gaining the ability to run maybe 8-10 more cows at €800 a head profit (or there abouts).

It needs to be properly profitable and not just a break even service to allow the dairy industry profit more.

My fear is that lads who are currently running break even beef enterprises will convert and do the same with contract rearing.

rangler1

frazzledhome wrote: »

You're back.

€1500 per heifer calved in lac 2

''calved in lac 2''......what does that mean

frazzledhome

rangler1 wrote: »

''calved in lac 2''......what does that mean

Sorry not clear.

I cost them at €1500 (as close as I can get it). This is for all calves born, calved and back in calf.

So, I am accounting for lost calves and heifers that don't make it to second lactation.

sheebadog

frazzledhome wrote: »

Sorry not clear.

I cost them at €1500 (as close as I can get it). This is for all calves born, calved and back in calf.

So, I am accounting for lost calves and heifers that don't make it to second lactation.

Are you including labour and land charges?

frazzledhome

sheebadog wrote: »

Are you including labour and land charges?

Yes

sheebadog

frazzledhome wrote: »

Yes

You're rearing them a lot cheaper than me!

frazzledhome

sheebadog wrote: »

You're rearing them a lot cheaper than me!

As I said its a close as I can get

sheebadog

frazzledhome wrote: »

As I said its a close as I can get

I'm also including €75 for sexed semen.
But my costings finish once calved.

Farmer Pudsey

frazzledhome wrote: »

Sorry not clear.

I cost them at €1500 (as close as I can get it). This is for all calves born, calved and back in calf.

So, I am accounting for lost calves and heifers that don't make it to second lactation.

sheebadog wrote: »

Are you including labour and land charges?

What value are you putting the calf in first day at. Also a rearer will have to have a margin. I costed it that at 1.6/day from 10 weeks to 1st December before calving allowing for a 300/head margin for rearer.

rangler1

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

What value are you putting the calf in first day at. Also a rearer will have to have a margin. I costed it that at 1.6/day from 10 weeks to 1st December before calving allowing for a 300/head margin for rearer.

Going on those dates, you only have them one winter which would be a help.
Is that €300/hd net profit or is fixed costs to come out of that

Farmer Pudsey

rangler1 wrote: »

Going on those dates, you only have them one winter which would be a help.
Is that €300/hd net profit or is fixed costs to come out of that

Read post no 3 &16 on this thread, very hard to define fixed costs and margin. As a PAYE worker and a sole trade you have to be able to see through the mist. What is a fixed cost, what is profit if you are pay 52% on it, if you are driving a jeep is it a fixed cost or a lifestyle choice or maybe it is BIK(I would only have one if it was BIK).

frazzledhome

rangler1 wrote: »

Going on those dates, you only have them one winter which would be a help.
Is that €300/hd net profit or is fixed costs to come out of that

100 heifers*€300 + SFP = a lot of margin for very little work. With fixed costs paid, should all beef farmers not be running to this?

From what I'm reading its not being got rom beef or is it?

sheebadog

frazzledhome wrote: »

100 heifers*€300 + SFP = a lot of margin for very little work. With fixed costs paid, should all beef farmers not be running to this?

From what I'm reading its not being got rom beef or is it?

Dairymen paying SFP now!! Ye must be making too much money!!

frazzledhome

sheebadog wrote: »

Dairymen paying SFP now!! Ye must be making too much money!!

Now Sheeba, you know ours is too small to be giving away but the rearer would be collecting their own.

Go on and milk and don't be starting a row! "The farmer and the cow man should be friends"

sheebadog

frazzledhome wrote: »

Now Sheeba, you know ours is too small to be giving away but the rearer would be collecting their own.

Go on and milk and don't be starting a row! "The farmer and the cow man should be friends"

LOL!!!:)
I have new milkers this morning and just keeping a eye on them.

ellewood

frazzledhome wrote: »

100 heifers*€300 + SFP = a lot of margin for very little work. With fixed costs paid, should all beef farmers not be running to this?

From what I'm reading its not being got rom beef or is it?

And if you have no SFP? Thats like the beef factories saying sher why do ye need a profit on a beef animal give them to us at cost and youre left with youre SFP

Btw I agree E300 net would be fantastic money to rear a heifer and prob a bit too much for everyone to be happy!:rolleyes:

So what in youre opinion should the rearer be left with after all costs and a land charge ie what would he want to be getting for his labour?

If you were doing it for someone what would you want to be getting for it ??

Farmer Pudsey

frazzledhome wrote: »

100 heifers*€300 + SFP = a lot of margin for very little work. With fixed costs paid, should all beef farmers not be running to this?

From what I'm reading its not being got rom beef or is it?

ellewood wrote: »

And if you have no SFP? Thats like the beef factories saying sher why do ye need a profit on a beef animal give them to us at cost and youre left with youre SFP

Btw I agree E300 net would be fantastic money to rear a heifer and prob a bit too much for everyone to be happy!:rolleyes:

So what in youre opinion should the rearer be left with after all costs and a land charge ie what would he want to be getting for his labour?

If you were doing it for someone what would you want to be getting for it ??

I am not sure if it would be fantastic money, however in the medium term it is about the minimum that will get goodish stockmen to take up the rearing of heifers. Yes there are some that may take them in at 1/head/day but in general these are only lads unwilling and unable to manage there own farms. These only want a way of collecting SFP, DA and envoirmental scheme.

Any farmers that has survived at the drystock game for any amount of time will want a fair return fopr his money. 300/head for 18-20 months managment is about 180-200/head/year. A lot of good drystock farmers are managing that through there present system. You have to also consider that this will be totally different to just taking heifers for summer rearing.

frazzledhome

Rearing is about grass management nothing else. People make it out to be a black art.

Early turn out with 10mts grass, good parasite control.
Above all seperate smaller heifers early for extra hi pro grub
Synch for breeding using a heat detection aid, that's it.

Stick at 4 maidens per ha and take surplus as silage

Farmer Pudsey

frazzledhome wrote: »

Rearing is about grass management nothing else. People make it out to be a black art.

Early turn out with 10mts grass, good parasite control.
Above all seperate smaller heifers early for extra hi pro grub
Synch for breeding using a heat detection aid, that's it.

Stick at 4 maidens per ha and take surplus as silage

Milking cows, summer grazing, spring lamb are all only grass managment as well. They are not Black arts either. It always amazes me that there is a certain fraternity in the dairying area that consider that other sectors should subsidise there profitable sector. They seem to have an innate ability to find suckers to believe there spin.

Contract rearing is not rocket science but will require certain management skills. The option is there to do it in house either by reducing cow numbers on milking platform or renting land and rearing them with own labour

However if this is to be a new industry within the farming sector then those that partake will require a margin. If these Dairy farmers thing that some drystock farmers will take this up and carry out the enterprise without an adequate margin go and find these inviduals. There will be some idiots out there.

I see few have argued with my costs but there seems to be a section that have an issue with a margin being added for the farmer rearing the heifers. What level of margin would these consider adequate. Some will expect maybe that these rearers will give a subsidy of part of there SFP to these profitable dairy operations

sheebadog

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Milking cows, summer grazing, spring lamb are all only grass managment as well. They are not Black arts either. It always amazes me that there is a certain fraternity in the dairying area that consider that other sectors should subsidise there profitable sector. They seem to have an innate ability to find suckers to believe there spin.

Contract rearing is not rocket science but will require certain management skills. The option is there to do it in house either by reducing cow numbers on milking platform or renting land and rearing them with own labour

However if this is to be a new industry within the farming sector then those that partake will require a margin. If these Dairy farmers thing that some drystock farmers will take this up and carry out the enterprise without an adequate margin go and find these inviduals. There will be some idiots out there.

I see few have argued with my costs but there seems to be a section that have an issue with a margin being added for the farmer rearing the heifers. What level of margin would these consider adequate. Some will expect maybe that these rearers will give a subsidy of part of there SFP to these profitable dairy operations

Massive +1.

frazzledhome

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Milking cows, summer grazing, spring lamb are all only grass managment as well. They are not Black arts either. It always amazes me that there is a certain fraternity in the dairying area that consider that other sectors should subsidise there profitable sector. They seem to have an innate ability to find suckers to believe there spin.

Contract rearing is not rocket science but will require certain management skills. The option is there to do it in house either by reducing cow numbers on milking platform or renting land and rearing them with own labour

However if this is to be a new industry within the farming sector then those that partake will require a margin. If these Dairy farmers thing that some drystock farmers will take this up and carry out the enterprise without an adequate margin go and find these inviduals. There will be some idiots out there.

I see few have argued with my costs but there seems to be a section that have an issue with a margin being added for the farmer rearing the heifers. What level of margin would these consider adequate. Some will expect maybe that these rearers will give a subsidy of part of there SFP to these profitable dairy operations

Totally agree 100%. I'm in an arrangement for some years as well as rearing some of our own.

There's as many dairy guys looking for a sucker as beef guys.

Must be just reward for both sides. It was a steep learning curve for our guy the first year as his grass management left a lot to de desired as did turn out date

freedominacup

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Milking cows, summer grazing, spring lamb are all only grass managment as well. They are not Black arts either. It always amazes me that there is a certain fraternity in the dairying area that consider that other sectors should subsidise there profitable sector. They seem to have an innate ability to find suckers to believe there spin.

Contract rearing is not rocket science but will require certain management skills. The option is there to do it in house either by reducing cow numbers on milking platform or renting land and rearing them with own labour

However if this is to be a new industry within the farming sector then those that partake will require a margin. If these Dairy farmers thing that some drystock farmers will take this up and carry out the enterprise without an adequate margin go and find these inviduals. There will be some idiots out there.

I see few have argued with my costs but there seems to be a section that have an issue with a margin being added for the farmer rearing the heifers. What level of margin would these consider adequate. Some will expect maybe that these rearers will give a subsidy of part of there SFP to these profitable dairy operations

You have no idea pudsey. I pulled a guy up at a meeting a couple of months ago on it. He was declaring about all the extra cows he was going to carry in 2 years time, how it would be no bother to acheive this stocking rate as all his heifers would be contract reared. I asked was there much of a difference in price between all of the various drystock farmers advertising in the comic looking for farmers to give them heifers to contract rear. He looked at me like my head was going to spin off. As far he was concerned all he had to do was pick up the phone and inform the drystock farmer of his choice that the beef guy had been chosen from a list of candidates to rear this mans heifers and that he'd start dropping down calves around the 1st of March. A man in dire need of a kick in the hole.

frazzledhome

freedominacup wrote: »

You have no idea pudsey. I pulled a guy up at a meeting a couple of months ago on it. He was declaring about all the extra cows he was going to carry in 2 years time, how it would be no bother to acheive this stocking rate as all his heifers would be contract reared. I asked was there much of a difference in price between all of the various drystock farmers advertising in the comic looking for farmers to give them heifers to contract rear. He looked at me like my head was going to spin off. As far he was concerned all he had to do was pick up the phone and inform the drystock farmer of his choice that the beef guy had been chosen from a list of candidates to rear this mans heifers and that he'd start dropping down calves around the 1st of March. A man in dire need of a kick in the hole.

He's an arrogant bollix, the likes of those guys could ruin it for others or maybe its a good thing.

Warren Buffet always said that in a deal there must be something in it for the buyer